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Re: Pedophilia and some other questions

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  • Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II
    The key to healing the attraction is conforming to the image of Christ. The key to getting victory over pedophilic sin is conforming to the image of Christ.
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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      The key to healing the attraction is conforming to the image of
      Christ. The key to getting victory over pedophilic sin is conforming
      to the image of Christ. The key is not "recovery" but, rather,
      holiness -- without which no one will see the Lord.

      --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, theslink@J... wrote:
      >
      > I have a very serious problem. While I am a sex addict and have had
      homosexual encounters with men I am really attracted to teen age
      boys. While I have never offended with under age kids I have had
      problems with child pornography in the past. Thankfully the Lord has
      kept me from all forms of pornography for about a year. This is a big
      turn around since I used to spend hours every day looking at porn. I
      feel so alone because all of the books I have found about recovering
      for homosexuality deal strictly with adult attractions and none of
      the members of my group are pedophiles. Can anyone recommend a title
      about pedophilia?
      >
      > Also I have read one book about homosexual recovery. It said that
      the key to recovery was to build relationships. Is recovery really as
      easy as making friends? There has to be something more to this. I was
      seriously abused as a child physically and emotionally (but not
      sexually) by my father and grandmother. While I have forgiven them I
      still think my problems are rooted in my childhood and my rejection
      by my peers. I am in secular therapy but they seem to focus more on
      changing my behavior than addressing underlying emotional problems.
      Thats not to say I haven't made good progress. My sex drive is more
      under control and I haven't had any same sex contact in a year and I
      have gotten out of porn. But I am still hurting, lonely, and have
      problems with lust and masturbation anywhere from once to twice a
      week to once every two weeks. I really want to heal and be normal.
      Can anybody offer any words of advice??
    • Michael Crumpler
      Hey slink! thanks for your honesty and vulnerability! Praise the Lord for the power that he has already given you over the last year. It is frightening to be
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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        Hey slink!
        thanks for your honesty and vulnerability! Praise the Lord for the power that he has already given you over the last year. It is frightening to be so vulnerable to failure. Pedophilia is so stigmatized! I hate the way our society is dealing with it, as if it is an unpardonable sin. People need help in order for it to be prevented. For now, honesty and vulnerability is your best antidote. Continue to share your feelings in a safe and caring environment. I don't struggle with pedophilia, but when I was a teen I had numerous encounters with men. You and I can be in dialog about what that was like. I will remember you in prayer. May the Lord grant you power and freedom as you continue to rely upon Him!

        Michael

        theslink@... wrote:

        I have a very serious problem. While I am a sex addict and have had homosexual encounters with men I am really attracted to teen age boys. While I have never offended with under age kids I have had problems with child pornography in the past. Thankfully the Lord has kept me from all forms of pornography for about a year. This is a big turn around since I used to spend hours every day looking at porn. I feel so alone because all of the books I have found about recovering for homosexuality deal strictly with adult attractions and none of the members of my group are pedophiles. Can anyone recommend a title about pedophilia?

        Also I have read one book about homosexual recovery. It said that the key to recovery was to build relationships. Is recovery really as easy as making friends? There has to be something more to this. I was seriously abused as a child physically and emotionally (but not sexually) by my father and grandmother. While I have forgiven them I still think my problems are rooted in my childhood and my rejection by my peers. I am in secular therapy but they seem to focus more on changing my behavior than addressing underlying emotional problems. Thats not to say I haven't made good progress. My sex drive is more under control and I haven't had any same sex contact in a year and I have gotten out of porn. But I am still hurting, lonely, and have problems with lust and masturbation anywhere from once to twice a week to once every two weeks. I really want to heal and be normal. Can anybody offer any words of advice??

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      • Inge Anderson
        Dear friend, I wish you had given a name by which to address you .... ... Praise God that He has kept you from that! ... Unfortunately that subject is still
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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          Dear friend,

          I wish you had given a name by which to address you ....

          At 03:39 AM 10/1/2003 +0000, theslink@... wrote:

          >I have a very serious problem. While I am a sex addict and have had
          >homosexual encounters with men I am really attracted to teen age boys.
          >While I have never offended with under age kids

          Praise God that He has kept you from that!

          >I have had problems with child pornography in the past. Thankfully the
          >Lord has kept me from all forms of pornography for about a year. This is a
          >big turn around since I used to spend hours every day looking at porn. I
          >feel so alone because all of the books I have found about recovering for
          >homosexuality deal strictly with adult attractions and none of the members
          >of my group are pedophiles. Can anyone recommend a title about pedophilia?

          Unfortunately that subject is still largely "taboo" while homosexuality is
          now very much a subject on everyone's tongue -- whether positive or
          negative. So the books I've read in which pedophilia is addressed are from
          the viewpoint of keeping children safe from predators, etc.

          You are NOT a predator.

          There's something in sexual attraction that attracts us to people who have
          something we lack. That clearly works in heterosexual attraction. But even
          in homosexual attraction, individuals are usually attracted to their
          "opposites" -- unless it's a sexual addiction that's indiscriminate &
          engaged in for the physical drug effect (which deadens pain, by the way).

          First of all, I must say that I am not a professional counselor. But I do
          have a fair bit of experience in life ... And, although the "inner child"
          idea has been misused in psychology, there is some truth to it. We all
          carry our childhood with us in some manner. Sometimes we react to
          situations more like the child we used to be than the mature adults that we
          are supposed to be. For such purposes it's useful to think of our "inner
          child" which reacts to stimuli around us and sometimes overcomes our
          "adult" reactions.

          Just this last weekend I attended a women's retreat in which the key
          speaker was a very successful professional woman -- one who had partied
          with the high and the mighty, wheeled and dealed in millions, etc. She's a
          brilliant woman who was neglected and abused as a child. She had locked up
          so much of her childhood in her memory that she could remember nothing
          until after years of counseling. She's very aware of her past now, and when
          she catches herself reacting emotionally as a child (e.g. in fear,
          self-hatred, etc.), she will mentally put her arms around that "inner
          child" and tell her, "It's okay. You don't need to be afraid. Jesus loves
          you" ... that sort of thing. Gradually she has learned to integrate her
          professional, confident self with her personal fearful self... But she
          still has a ways to go, since she confessed that she has no trouble
          speaking in front of thousands but still finds one-to-one relationships
          intimidating, thinking things such as, She probably wonders why I wore
          these clothes, etc. .... In other words, she's self-conscious & feels she
          isn't likely to be accepted as a person. And she is still a successful
          business owner, a world traveler, always dressed in stylish, expensive
          clothes ...

          There's more, but I just wanted to give you a little idea ...

          In your case you do remember some of the abuse you went through. (There may
          be more that you don't remember.) That child you once were never received
          the nurturing and love he deserved. And that child is still part of you,
          affecting the way you see the world. In your case, the need for nurturing
          and love has morphed into sexual attraction. And you unconsciously seek
          your "opposite." In the way you tell it, that includes children ....

          I suspect that the road to recovery may be shortened for you if you get
          some help dealing with childhood issues. If you'll email me directly at
          <inge@...> and tell me approximately where you live, I may be able to
          find some lay Christians trained in a ministry that specializes in such
          help. If you are reading this on the web and my email address is
          incomplete, go to http://www.glow.cc and click on "Inge's Inklings." That
          will take you to a section with my articles, and my email address will be
          clear.

          There are some things you can do yourself, and the key is to ask *Jesus* to
          show you the truth about yourself -- that you are *loved,* that He died
          for you and that He would have died for *just* you. The problem is that
          you probably know that intellectually, but your inner child does not know
          that *emotionally.* And it's in helping your emotions to "know" the truth
          that you can get some help.

          >Also I have read one book about homosexual recovery. It said that the key
          >to recovery was to build relationships. Is recovery really as easy as
          >making friends? There has to be something more to this.

          You are quite right. However, the reason that same-gender relationships are
          so helpful in recovery from sexual attraction to your own gender is that
          they are affirming and a way of experiencing genuine affection and love --
          something for which sex is only a poor substitute. When that deep need for
          affirmation and love starts being met, the desire for false intimacy lessens.

          >I was seriously abused as a child physically and emotionally (but not
          >sexually) by my father and grandmother. While I have forgiven them I still
          >think my problems are rooted in my childhood and my rejection by my peers.

          As you may sense from what I've written above, I agree with you.

          >I am in secular therapy but they seem to focus more on changing my
          >behavior than addressing underlying emotional problems.

          That's a good start. After all, it's the sexual *behavior* that is sinful.
          However, God desires to meet that emotional need within you as well. If you
          will use your imagination (the same one you've used for sexual fantasies)
          and imagine yourself as the child you once were, being held on Jesus' lap
          and cradled in His arms, you may find that helpful. After all He *does*
          love you and

          >Thats not to say I haven't made good progress. My sex drive is more under
          >control and I haven't had any same sex contact in a year and I have gotten
          >out of porn. But I am still hurting, lonely, and have problems with lust
          >and masturbation anywhere from once to twice a week to once every two
          >weeks. I really want to heal and be normal. Can anybody offer any words of
          >advice??

          Actually, you are already quite "normal." Heterosexual men deal with the
          same problems you do. They just look different. Whether lust is towards
          other men or other women, it's still outside God's design for sex.

          I praise God for the progress you have made. Now immerse yourself in the
          love of God. Read and re-read the gospels. Use your imagination to place
          yourself in the presence of God. (You're always in His presence, but don't
          "know it" emotionally. That's where imagination helps. And that's the
          purpose for which He gave us the gift of imagination. Don't shut it down,
          but use it for the purpose He intended.) Read the Psalms. And always pray
          for the Holy Spirit's guidance before you open your Bible.

          Every morning, begin your day by reminding yourself that Jesus loves you.
          Then lay all your plans for that day at His feet to be given up or carried
          out as His providence shall indicate. Spend time talking to Him and
          *listening* to Him For that, you'll need to spend some time in Bible
          reading -- not a hurried reading of long passages, but just enough to reach
          a passage that is meaningful to you. Then meditate on that passage and keep
          it in your mind for the day. And you can keep in touch with Jesus
          throughout the day by lifting your heart to Him in prayer. (By the way,
          prayer is talking to God as to a friend.)

          May the Lord bless you and keep you and enfold you in His arms of love.

          In His love,
          Inge Anderson



          Inge Anderson <inge@...>
          *********************************************************
          Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
          Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
          *********************************************************
          A bruised reed shall he not break....
          Isaiah 42:3
          *********************************************************
        • Tim Way
          Hi Guys, One thing that comes to my mind is the admonition from Jesus Christ when he warns about hurting one of these little ones who trust in me. He said that
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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            Hi Guys,

            One thing that comes to my mind is the admonition from Jesus Christ when he warns about hurting one of these little ones who trust in me. He said that it would be better to die a violent death than that you should hurt one of these little one's. The penalty our society puts on child molesters is a period of confinement plus financial penalties then a period of partial freedom and ridicule with a lack of privacy. Gods law merely required immediate death penalty by societal stoning. I met a child molester some 18 years ago. I was so repulsed by him that I couldn't even peaceably talk to him.Before Gays were portrayed as anything but perverts in our society years ago most straight people were repulsed at the mere thought of homosexual perversion. I hope society never excepts child molesters as an acceptable alternative lifestyle. Tim Way

            Michael Crumpler <good7boy2002@...> wrote:
            Hey slink!
            thanks for your honesty and vulnerability! Praise the Lord for the power that he has already given you over the last year. It is frightening to be so vulnerable to failure. Pedophilia is so stigmatized! I hate the way our society is dealing with it, as if it is an unpardonable sin. People need help in order for it to be prevented. For now, honesty and vulnerability is your best antidote. Continue to share your feelings in a safe and caring environment. I don't struggle with pedophilia, but when I was a teen I had numerous encounters with men. You and I can be in dialog about what that was like. I will remember you in prayer. May the Lord grant you power and freedom as you continue to rely upon Him!

            Michael

            theslink@... wrote:

            I have a very serious problem. While I am a sex addict and have had homosexual encounters with men I am really attracted to teen age boys. While I have never offended with under age kids I have had problems with child pornography in the past. Thankfully the Lord has kept me from all forms of pornography for about a year. This is a big turn around since I used to spend hours every day looking at porn. I feel so alone because all of the books I have found about recovering for homosexuality deal strictly with adult attractions and none of the members of my group are pedophiles. Can anyone recommend a title about pedophilia?

            Also I have read one book about homosexual recovery. It said that the key to recovery was to build relationships. Is recovery really as easy as making friends? There has to be something more to this. I was seriously abused as a child physically and emotionally (but not sexually) by my father and grandmother. While I have forgiven them I still think my problems are rooted in my childhood and my rejection by my peers. I am in secular therapy but they seem to focus more on changing my behavior than addressing underlying emotional problems. Thats not to say I haven't made good progress. My sex drive is more under control and I haven't had any same sex contact in a year and I have gotten out of porn. But I am still hurting, lonely, and have problems with lust and masturbation anywhere from once to twice a week to once every two weeks. I really want to heal and be normal. Can anybody offer any words of advice??

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            The Ex-Gay Discussion Board is a ministry of:
            NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries

            Feel free to link to these pages on your own website:

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          • Inge Anderson
            Tim, Your sharing your reaction to pedophilia below came at a particularly inappropriate juncture. A brother in Christ shared his struggles, and you answer
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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              Tim,

              Your sharing your reaction to pedophilia below came at a particularly
              inappropriate juncture.

              A brother in Christ shared his struggles, and you answer with *this*!!

              How would you feel if you shared some of your struggles on this board, and,
              instead of replying to your concerns, I wrote to tell you that I had met a
              homosexual and was *so* repulsed by him!! Furthermore, what if I pointed
              out that the biblical punishment for same-gender sex was stoning and
              lamenting that society no longer did this.

              How would that help *you*?

              That's exactly what you just did to your brother on this list who made
              himself vulnerable by writing about his struggle of being attracted to
              young people. Before posting on a board like this, where vulnerable people
              come for Christian support, it is good to pray the prayer of David in Psalm
              141.3:
              "Set a watch, O LORD, before my mouth; keep the door of my lips." This is
              *not* a place to "let it all hang out" without considering how it will
              affect a fellow struggler.

              Michael's note was "right on"! Thank you, Michael for your contribution.

              Blessings,
              Inge Anderson

              At 10:52 AM 10/1/2003 -0700, Tim Way wrote:
              >Hi Guys,
              >
              >One thing that comes to my mind is the admonition from Jesus Christ when
              >he warns about hurting one of these little ones who trust in me. He said
              >that it would be better to die a violent death than that you should hurt
              >one of these little one's. The penalty our society puts on child molesters
              >is a period of confinement plus financial penalties then a period of
              >partial freedom and ridicule with a lack of privacy. Gods law merely
              >required immediate death penalty by societal stoning. I met a child
              >molester some 18 years ago. I was so repulsed by him that I couldn't even
              >peaceably talk to him.Before Gays were portrayed as anything but perverts
              >in our society years ago most straight people were repulsed at the mere
              >thought of homosexual perversion. I hope society never excepts child
              >molesters as an acceptable alternative lifestyle. Tim Way

              Inge Anderson <inge@...>
              *********************************************************
              Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
              Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
              *********************************************************
              A bruised reed shall he not break....
              Isaiah 42:3
              *********************************************************
            • Michael Crumpler
              Thanks Inge! I totally agree! This is not a public trial, but a support group! Our Brother has chosen to share his struggle and is seeking help, only to be
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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                Thanks Inge!
                I totally agree!
                This is not a public trial, but a support group!
                Our Brother has chosen to share his struggle and is seeking help, only to be slammed by Tim! What a shame!
                Child molestation is an awful act! That's why we should do everything in our power to prevent perpertrators from doing it. I pray that through our love and encouragement our brother will be led away from the need and desire to be with teen boys.

                Tim......"let he who thinks he stand take heed lest he fall...."

                Mike
                Inge Anderson <inge@...> wrote:
                Tim,

                Your sharing your reaction to pedophilia below came at a particularly
                inappropriate juncture.

                A brother in Christ shared his struggles, and you answer with *this*!!

                How would you feel if you shared some of your struggles on this board, and,
                instead of replying to your concerns, I wrote to tell you that I had met a
                homosexual and was *so* repulsed by him!! Furthermore, what if I pointed
                out that the biblical punishment for same-gender sex was stoning and
                lamenting that society no longer did this.

                How would that help *you*?

                That's exactly what you just did to your brother on this list who made
                himself vulnerable by writing about his struggle of being attracted to
                young people. Before posting on a board like this, where vulnerable people
                come for Christian support, it is good to pray the prayer of David in Psalm
                141.3:
                "Set a watch, O LORD, before my mouth; keep the door of my lips." This is
                *not* a place to "let it all hang out" without considering how it will
                affect a fellow struggler.

                Michael's note was "right on"! Thank you, Michael for your contribution.

                Blessings,
                Inge Anderson

                At 10:52 AM 10/1/2003 -0700, Tim Way wrote:
                >Hi Guys,
                >
                >One thing that comes to my mind is the admonition from Jesus Christ when
                >he warns about hurting one of these little ones who trust in me. He said
                >that it would be better to die a violent death than that you should hurt
                >one of these little one's. The penalty our society puts on child molesters
                >is a period of confinement plus financial penalties then a period of
                >partial freedom and ridicule with a lack of privacy. Gods law merely
                >required immediate death penalty by societal stoning. I met a child
                >molester some 18 years ago. I was so repulsed by him that I couldn't even
                >peaceably talk to him.Before Gays were portrayed as anything but perverts
                >in our society years ago most straight people were repulsed at the mere
                >thought of homosexual perversion. I hope society never excepts child
                >molesters as an acceptable alternative lifestyle. Tim Way

                Inge Anderson <inge@...>
                *********************************************************
                Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
                Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
                *********************************************************
                A bruised reed shall he not break....
                Isaiah 42:3
                *********************************************************


                Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                exgaydiscussionboard-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                Questions on the group? contact founder directly at: ncxds@...

                The Ex-Gay Discussion Board is a ministry of:
                NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries

                Feel free to link to these pages on your own website:

                Web: <http://geocities.com/exgaylinks> | Discussion List: <http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat: <http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>




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              • Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II
                Considering that the ACLU is representing NAMBLA in a Massachusetts case, it may eventually happen. But, alas, all is falling into place as Bible prophecy
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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                  Considering that the ACLU is representing NAMBLA in a Massachusetts
                  case, it may eventually happen. But, alas, all is falling into place
                  as Bible prophecy said it would, paving the way for the Lord's return
                  to take His bride home.

                  But what do we do for the person who has pedophilia? Do we do the
                  modern American equivalent of taking him out and stoning him to death
                  or do we treat him the way Jesus treated the woman caught in adultery
                  and say to him, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more"?
                  There really is no difference between homosexuality and pedophilia
                  other than the object of attraction which, in the latter case, is
                  toward children.

                  Then again, since his attraction is toward teen boys, the issue here
                  may not be one of pedophilia but, rather, one of pederasty.

                  --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Tim Way <inotheway@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > Hi Guys,
                  >
                  > One thing that comes to my mind is the admonition from Jesus Christ
                  when he warns about hurting one of these little ones who trust in me.
                  He said that it would be better to die a violent death than that you
                  should hurt one of these little one's. The penalty our society puts
                  on child molesters is a period of confinement plus financial
                  penalties then a period of partial freedom and ridicule with a lack
                  of privacy. Gods law merely required immediate death penalty by
                  societal stoning. I met a child molester some 18 years ago. I was so
                  repulsed by him that I couldn't even peaceably talk to him.Before
                  Gays were portrayed as anything but perverts in our society years ago
                  most straight people were repulsed at the mere thought of homosexual
                  perversion. I hope society never excepts child molesters as an
                  acceptable alternative lifestyle. Tim Way
                  >
                  > Michael Crumpler <good7boy2002@y...> wrote:
                  > Hey slink!
                  > thanks for your honesty and vulnerability! Praise the Lord for the
                  power that he has already given you over the last year. It is
                  frightening to be so vulnerable to failure. Pedophilia is so
                  stigmatized! I hate the way our society is dealing with it, as if it
                  is an unpardonable sin. People need help in order for it to be
                  prevented. For now, honesty and vulnerability is your best antidote.
                  Continue to share your feelings in a safe and caring environment. I
                  don't struggle with pedophilia, but when I was a teen I had numerous
                  encounters with men. You and I can be in dialog about what that was
                  like. I will remember you in prayer. May the Lord grant you power and
                  freedom as you continue to rely upon Him!
                  >
                  > Michael
                  >
                  > theslink@J... wrote:
                  >
                  > I have a very serious problem. While I am a sex addict and have had
                  homosexual encounters with men I am really attracted to teen age
                  boys. While I have never offended with under age kids I have had
                  problems with child pornography in the past. Thankfully the Lord has
                  kept me from all forms of pornography for about a year. This is a big
                  turn around since I used to spend hours every day looking at porn. I
                  feel so alone because all of the books I have found about recovering
                  for homosexuality deal strictly with adult attractions and none of
                  the members of my group are pedophiles. Can anyone recommend a title
                  about pedophilia?
                  >
                  > Also I have read one book about homosexual recovery. It said that
                  the key to recovery was to build relationships. Is recovery really as
                  easy as making friends? There has to be something more to this. I was
                  seriously abused as a child physically and emotionally (but not
                  sexually) by my father and grandmother. While I have forgiven them I
                  still think my problems are rooted in my childhood and my rejection
                  by my peers. I am in secular therapy but they seem to focus more on
                  changing my behavior than addressing underlying emotional problems.
                  Thats not to say I haven't made good progress. My sex drive is more
                  under control and I haven't had any same sex contact in a year and I
                  have gotten out of porn. But I am still hurting, lonely, and have
                  problems with lust and masturbation anywhere from once to twice a
                  week to once every two weeks. I really want to heal and be normal.
                  Can anybody offer any words of advice??
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > exgaydiscussionboard-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Questions on the group? contact founder directly at: ncxds@y...
                  >
                  > The Ex-Gay Discussion Board is a ministry of:
                  > NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries
                  >
                  > Feel free to link to these pages on your own website:
                  >
                  > Web: <http://geocities.com/exgaylinks> | Discussion List:
                  <http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat:
                  <http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  Service.
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
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                  > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
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                • philtft
                  ... conforming ... Well said, buddy - except your previous post and even this one imply that we have to make ourselves holy. Holiness is a gift of God. Well:
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Chancellor Carlyle
                    Roberts, II" <BuddyChan2@m...> wrote:
                    > The key to healing the attraction is conforming to the image of
                    > Christ. The key to getting victory over pedophilic sin is
                    conforming
                    > to the image of Christ. The key is not "recovery" but, rather,
                    > holiness -- without which no one will see the Lord.
                    >

                    Well said, buddy - except your previous post and even this one imply
                    that we have to make ourselves holy. Holiness is a gift of God.

                    Well: we seem to have all shades of opinion here from buddy's scare
                    tactics on loosing your salvation, to Tim's death penalty, to Inge's
                    inner child (where is that in scripture?).

                    My bible says that we love God because He first loved us. Jesus
                    said; "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." Those
                    statements, to me, sum all this up. We respond in love to a love
                    that is so great that the God, who made heaven and earth, so loved us
                    that He sent His only begotten Son to die in place for my sin.
                    Wow: .... He has taken the punishment for it all! IT ALL!! My sin,
                    past, present and future. What grace is that? How can I respond?

                    Well, I sure can't earn my holiness, and continue to try to impress
                    God with how good I am and how well I am overcoming sin. How
                    ridiculous. A waste of time and energy - it's impossible.

                    Neither is He going to stone me or dish out the death penalty - He's
                    already done that and someone else paid the price.

                    As for the child within me?? Sorry Inge, what Bible are you reading
                    there? When I was born again, I became a new creation. I may still
                    be battling with my flesh, but my bible says to reckon that dead.
                    Just what point is there in trying to heal a dead body. The answer
                    to my problems is not in the past of my "old man" - but in the past
                    of my "new man" - the one that was crucified and now lives His
                    resurrection life in me.

                    No! I believe the answer is in:

                    Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of
                    God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable
                    unto God, which is your reasonable service.
                    2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the
                    renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and
                    acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

                    and

                    Hebrews: 12:1 ......let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which
                    doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that
                    is set before us,
                    2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for
                    the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the
                    shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
                    3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners
                    against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
                    4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

                    but these things are a response of love to love. It is not an
                    attempt to win God's approval. We have that already for:

                    Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we
                    were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
                    9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be
                    saved from wrath through him.
                    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the
                    death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by
                    his life.

                    As His beloved children, we can no longer be His enemies. He may
                    chasten us, but that is because He loves us.

                    To the brother that needs the encouragement; know this.....

                    If you are in Christ, you ARE His beloved son. As you desire to love
                    Him more, your desire to sin will die. This is a process that takes
                    time. It is process that is often painful to our flesh, but God, (2
                    Peter 1:3) according as his divine power hath given unto us all
                    things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of
                    him that hath called us to glory and virtue.

                    You therefore lack nothing, but need to discover just exactly what
                    you already have to enable you to overcome. This life is a journey
                    of discovery into the wonders of what Gos has given us. May your
                    journey be a great one.


                    Phil
                  • Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II
                    Now, why do you PRESUME that I m saying anything about us earning our holiness? Further, why do you insist on referring to my making reference to a passage in
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Now, why do you PRESUME that I'm saying anything about us earning our
                      holiness? Further, why do you insist on referring to my making
                      reference to a passage in Hebrews as "scare tactics"?

                      My posts do not in any way imply that WE make ourselves holy.
                      HOWEVER, neither do we sit on our blessed assurance and do nothing
                      (as your post implies). Shall we continue in sin that grace may
                      abound (as your post implies)? God forbid!

                      --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, philtft <no_reply@y...>
                      wrote:
                      > --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Chancellor Carlyle
                      > Roberts, II" <BuddyChan2@m...> wrote:
                      > > The key to healing the attraction is conforming to the image of
                      > > Christ. The key to getting victory over pedophilic sin is
                      > conforming
                      > > to the image of Christ. The key is not "recovery" but, rather,
                      > > holiness -- without which no one will see the Lord.
                      > >
                      >
                      > Well said, buddy - except your previous post and even this one
                      imply
                      > that we have to make ourselves holy. Holiness is a gift of God.
                      >
                      > Well: we seem to have all shades of opinion here from buddy's scare
                      > tactics on loosing your salvation, to Tim's death penalty, to
                      Inge's
                      > inner child (where is that in scripture?).
                      >
                      > My bible says that we love God because He first loved us. Jesus
                      > said; "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." Those
                      > statements, to me, sum all this up. We respond in love to a love
                      > that is so great that the God, who made heaven and earth, so loved
                      us
                      > that He sent His only begotten Son to die in place for my sin.
                      > Wow: .... He has taken the punishment for it all! IT ALL!! My
                      sin,
                      > past, present and future. What grace is that? How can I respond?
                      >
                      > Well, I sure can't earn my holiness, and continue to try to impress
                      > God with how good I am and how well I am overcoming sin. How
                      > ridiculous. A waste of time and energy - it's impossible.
                      >
                      > Neither is He going to stone me or dish out the death penalty -
                      He's
                      > already done that and someone else paid the price.
                      >
                      > As for the child within me?? Sorry Inge, what Bible are you reading
                      > there? When I was born again, I became a new creation. I may
                      still
                      > be battling with my flesh, but my bible says to reckon that dead.
                      > Just what point is there in trying to heal a dead body. The answer
                      > to my problems is not in the past of my "old man" - but in the past
                      > of my "new man" - the one that was crucified and now lives His
                      > resurrection life in me.
                      >
                      > No! I believe the answer is in:
                      >
                      > Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of
                      > God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy,
                      acceptable
                      > unto God, which is your reasonable service.
                      > 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the
                      > renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and
                      > acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
                      >
                      > and
                      >
                      > Hebrews: 12:1 ......let us lay aside every weight, and the sin
                      which
                      > doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that
                      > is set before us,
                      > 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for
                      > the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the
                      > shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
                      > 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners
                      > against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
                      > 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
                      >
                      > but these things are a response of love to love. It is not an
                      > attempt to win God's approval. We have that already for:
                      >
                      > Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while
                      we
                      > were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
                      > 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be
                      > saved from wrath through him.
                      > 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the
                      > death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by
                      > his life.
                      >
                      > As His beloved children, we can no longer be His enemies. He may
                      > chasten us, but that is because He loves us.
                      >
                      > To the brother that needs the encouragement; know this.....
                      >
                      > If you are in Christ, you ARE His beloved son. As you desire to
                      love
                      > Him more, your desire to sin will die. This is a process that
                      takes
                      > time. It is process that is often painful to our flesh, but God,
                      (2
                      > Peter 1:3) according as his divine power hath given unto us all
                      > things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge
                      of
                      > him that hath called us to glory and virtue.
                      >
                      > You therefore lack nothing, but need to discover just exactly what
                      > you already have to enable you to overcome. This life is a journey
                      > of discovery into the wonders of what Gos has given us. May your
                      > journey be a great one.
                      >
                      >
                      > Phil
                    • Inge Anderson
                      ... In this case, however, we are not dealing with a pedophile on this board. Someone who has a strong *temptation/attraction* in that direction has just
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        At 08:21 PM 10/1/2003 +0000, Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II wrote:
                        >But what do we do for the person who has pedophilia? Do we do the
                        >modern American equivalent of taking him out and stoning him to death
                        >or do we treat him the way Jesus treated the woman caught in adultery
                        >and say to him, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more"?

                        In this case, however, we are not dealing with a pedophile on this board.
                        Someone who has a strong *temptation/attraction* in that direction has just
                        opened his heart to us.

                        Just as the Bible does not condemn anyone for being *attracted* to one's
                        own gender (any more than the rest of us sinners are condemned), so surely
                        we have no right to judge anyone else who has an inappropriate sexual
                        attraction. The bible clearly condemns sexual *activity* outside of
                        marriage. By the grace of God we all deal with various inappropriate
                        attractions. And our new member has shared that, by the grace of God, he
                        has *not* given in to his attraction.

                        How many others on this board can say they have not given in to their
                        attraction?

                        The more we love Christ -- and that will happen naturally as we spend more
                        time with Him -- the less attractive sin will appear to us. And the more
                        compassionate we will be with those whose sins differ from ours. A
                        relationship with Him will also fill some of that love hunger that drives
                        individuals to various forms of false intimacy.

                        Blessings,
                        Inge Anderson



                        Inge Anderson <inge@...>
                        *********************************************************
                        Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
                        Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
                        *********************************************************
                        A bruised reed shall he not break....
                        Isaiah 42:3
                        *********************************************************
                      • Tim Way
                        Hi Mike and Inge, I m not judging anyone. You are judging me and my convictions, and the thoughts that I just cant even bear in my mind. I cant even deal with
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Mike and Inge,

                          I'm not judging anyone. You are judging me and my convictions, and the thoughts that I just cant even bear in my mind. I cant even deal with hearing about child molesters in my area without it making me sick to my stomach. Even the criminal justice system contains inmates who take care of this injustice by purging these demented predators from the prisons. This sin is so disgusting to me I cant but vomit the very knowledge of it from my mind. As far as this man who is struggling with it, I'm not condemning him at all. I just cant allow the subject matter in my mind as I'm SO repulsed by it. Whether you like it or not Mike and Inge. That sin is the very thing that invokes the wrath of God upon all who entertain it. It is like blood guiltiness. Please for the sanctity of the rest of us who are not that far gone, please don't invite that element of depravity here I beg you. May you come to your senses before this ministry is turned aside to the vermin.Tim Way

                          Michael Crumpler <good7boy2002@...> wrote:
                          Thanks Inge!
                          I totally agree!
                          This is not a public trial, but a support group!
                          Our Brother has chosen to share his struggle and is seeking help, only to be slammed by Tim! What a shame!
                          Child molestation is an awful act! That's why we should do everything in our power to prevent perpertrators from doing it. I pray that through our love and encouragement our brother will be led away from the need and desire to be with teen boys.

                          Tim......"let he who thinks he stand take heed lest he fall...."

                          Mike
                          Inge Anderson <inge@...> wrote:
                          Tim,

                          Your sharing your reaction to pedophilia below came at a particularly
                          inappropriate juncture.

                          A brother in Christ shared his struggles, and you answer with *this*!!

                          How would you feel if you shared some of your struggles on this board, and,
                          instead of replying to your concerns, I wrote to tell you that I had met a
                          homosexual and was *so* repulsed by him!! Furthermore, what if I pointed
                          out that the biblical punishment for same-gender sex was stoning and
                          lamenting that society no longer did this.

                          How would that help *you*?

                          That's exactly what you just did to your brother on this list who made
                          himself vulnerable by writing about his struggle of being attracted to
                          young people. Before posting on a board like this, where vulnerable people
                          come for Christian support, it is good to pray the prayer of David in Psalm
                          141.3:
                          "Set a watch, O LORD, before my mouth; keep the door of my lips." This is
                          *not* a place to "let it all hang out" without considering how it will
                          affect a fellow struggler.

                          Michael's note was "right on"! Thank you, Michael for your contribution.

                          Blessings,
                          Inge Anderson

                          At 10:52 AM 10/1/2003 -0700, Tim Way wrote:
                          >Hi Guys,
                          >
                          >One thing that comes to my mind is the admonition from Jesus Christ when
                          >he warns about hurting one of these little ones who trust in me. He said
                          >that it would be better to die a violent death than that you should hurt
                          >one of these little one's. The penalty our society puts on child molesters
                          >is a period of confinement plus financial penalties then a period of
                          >partial freedom and ridicule with a lack of privacy. Gods law merely
                          >required immediate death penalty by societal stoning. I met a child
                          >molester some 18 years ago. I was so repulsed by him that I couldn't even
                          >peaceably talk to him.Before Gays were portrayed as anything but perverts
                          >in our society years ago most straight people were repulsed at the mere
                          >thought of homosexual perversion. I hope society never excepts child
                          >molesters as an acceptable alternative lifestyle. Tim Way

                          Inge Anderson <inge@...>
                          *********************************************************
                          Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
                          Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
                          *********************************************************
                          A bruised reed shall he not break....
                          Isaiah 42:3
                          *********************************************************


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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Inge Anderson
                          Tim, I am personally offended by the language you used in your post in reference to a brother in Christ who was courageous enough to share his lonely struggle.
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 2, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Tim,

                            I am personally offended by the language you used in your post in reference
                            to a brother in Christ who was courageous enough to share his lonely
                            struggle. Your attitude does NOT demonstrate the spirit of Christ. There
                            was no basis for your post on "child molesters" except this man's sharing.
                            The Lord Jesus had strong words to say about one who would call his brother
                            a "fool," and you used the word "vermin"!!

                            Please come to your senses & actually *read* what's on this forum instead
                            of sending in wild, emotional posts! (Your reaction is *exactly* the same
                            as many straight people who react to the very thought of "homosexuality"
                            with so much emotion that they don't even hear that the person is living a
                            godly life and does NOT engage in same-gender sex! To them *you* are the
                            "vermin"!)

                            There IS NO CHILD MOLESTER ON THIS FORUM! The subject matter in your mind
                            is of your own making, Please don't blame anyone else for it.

                            A brother in Christ shared his attraction to under-age boys -- something
                            that is rather common among gay men, I might add. He shared that he HAS NOT
                            given in to the temptation.

                            Can you say the same regarding your attraction to men? (Maybe you're only
                            attracted to men older than yourself?)

                            Unfortunately it is human nature to be repulsed by temptations different
                            from our own. But the Bible clearly condemns *all* sex outside of marriage
                            -- and certainly sex among members of the same gender. So we're *all* in
                            the same boat here -- all condemned to die with no hope of heaven EXCEPT
                            for the love of Christ who died for EACH OF US -- no matter from what
                            directions our temptations come.

                            This is the second so-called support forum on which I've seen homosexually
                            oriented men jump with condemnation on someone who shared a struggle with
                            attraction to under-age boys. Interesting how those who seek understanding
                            and compassion for themselves have none to offer those who have a slightly
                            different struggle.

                            You seem so certain that someone else's temptation is worse than your
                            sin. In the process, you may very well be offending "one of these little
                            ones" of whom Christ spoke. Remember that when we come to Christ, we are
                            "born again." Someone just born is a *child* of God for whom the Lord has
                            the greatest solicitude.

                            You cannot make yourself more holy by condemning someone with a different
                            struggle. Holiness is demonstrated by showing a spirit like that of Jesus
                            who did NOT condemn a struggling sinner.

                            When we *really* sense the wonderful gift of Christ's salvation, we shall
                            be so filled with gratitude that He would save a sinner like ME, that we
                            will not feel superior to others but reach out to them with love -- like
                            one beggar taking another beggar by the hand and showing him where there is
                            an abundant source of food.

                            Jesus made it clear that He could do nothing for those who felt themselves
                            holier than other sinners -- "not so far gone" --and wrapped their robes of
                            'sanctity' about themselves. He said that the man who cried, "God be
                            merciful to me, a sinner!" went to his home justified. And without His
                            justification, we have no hope. Our robes of "sanctity" are but filthy rags
                            in His eyes.

                            May He be merciful to you and me!

                            In His grace,
                            Inge

                            PS Christ can even forgive those who *have* molested children. He's saved
                            mass murderers before -- like King Manasseh, for instance. He suffers with
                            the victims of abuse, even while He's ready to save the abuser.


                            At 11:41 PM 10/1/2003 -0700, Tim Way wrote:
                            >Hi Mike and Inge,
                            >
                            >I'm not judging anyone. You are judging me and my convictions, and the
                            >thoughts that I just cant even bear in my mind. I cant even deal with
                            >hearing about child molesters in my area without it making me sick to my
                            >stomach. Even the criminal justice system contains inmates who take care
                            >of this injustice by purging these demented predators from the prisons.
                            >This sin is so disgusting to me I cant but vomit the very knowledge of it
                            >from my mind. As far as this man who is struggling with it, I'm not
                            >condemning him at all. I just cant allow the subject matter in my mind as
                            >I'm SO repulsed by it. Whether you like it or not Mike and Inge. That sin
                            >is the very thing that invokes the wrath of God upon all who entertain it.
                            >It is like blood guiltiness. Please for the sanctity of the rest of us who
                            >are not that far gone, please don't invite that element of depravity here
                            >I beg you. May you come to your senses before this ministry is turned
                            >aside to the vermin.Tim Way

                            Inge Anderson <inge@...>
                            *********************************************************
                            Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
                            Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
                            *********************************************************
                            A bruised reed shall he not break....
                            Isaiah 42:3
                            *********************************************************
                          • Bridget Night
                            I would contact Richard Cohen at IHF90@aol.com He addresses that issue in his book, Coming Out Straight. He does private telephone conferencing and gives
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 2, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I would contact Richard Cohen at IHF90@... He addresses that issue in his book, "Coming Out Straight." He does private telephone conferencing and gives seminars. I remember reading the page in his book about why guys with SSA are attracted to males in different age groups. My son was never sexually abused, thank God, but I remember my husband and I being very concerned because he and this kid in Denmark (who I wrote my book with and Richard Cohen wrote my foreword-see links at this groups site) were looking at pictures of young boys (age 12-14) a lot and it really disturbed us. I became afraid to allow my son around his nephews (7 and 9 at the time). My husband and I talked to our son about this and how we were worried that homosexuality could lead to pedophilia. We knew very little about anything at the time. I seem to remember that Richard said something about the brokeness having happened in childhood if you are attracted to young boys. I also see an obsession with many gay men, including my son, of a fear of loosing their youth. Many times my son would say, "I wish I could be little again when life was simpler and innocent. I think it was around 11, 12, and 13 when he did not fit in with his peers that he really changed in his personality and was no longer happy or confident in himself. Then it got worse in high school. I think we are all trying to heal some kind of brokeness in our childhoods all the time.

                              May God bless you in your endeavors. Bridget
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: theslink@...
                              To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 10:39 PM
                              Subject: [ExGDBd] Pedophilia and some other questions



                              I have a very serious problem. While I am a sex addict and have had homosexual encounters with men I am really attracted to teen age boys. While I have never offended with under age kids I have had problems with child pornography in the past. Thankfully the Lord has kept me from all forms of pornography for about a year. This is a big turn around since I used to spend hours every day looking at porn. I feel so alone because all of the books I have found about recovering for homosexuality deal strictly with adult attractions and none of the members of my group are pedophiles. Can anyone recommend a title about pedophilia?

                              Also I have read one book about homosexual recovery. It said that the key to recovery was to build relationships. Is recovery really as easy as making friends? There has to be something more to this. I was seriously abused as a child physically and emotionally (but not sexually) by my father and grandmother. While I have forgiven them I still think my problems are rooted in my childhood and my rejection by my peers. I am in secular therapy but they seem to focus more on changing my behavior than addressing underlying emotional problems. Thats not to say I haven't made good progress. My sex drive is more under control and I haven't had any same sex contact in a year and I have gotten out of porn. But I am still hurting, lonely, and have problems with lust and masturbation anywhere from once to twice a week to once every two weeks. I really want to heal and be normal. Can anybody offer any words of advice??

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                            • andy mathews
                              Tim, Hey! I understand your being repulsed, but I feel that you are totally coming at this from the wrong vantage point. This brother is sharing because he
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 2, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Tim,

                                Hey! I understand your being repulsed, but I feel that
                                you are totally coming at this from the wrong vantage
                                point. This brother is sharing because he wants help,
                                prayer, and support so that he can overcome these
                                things, and you want to turn him away? How can you do
                                that? Our goal is to be like Christ and if Christ were
                                walking this earth right now I guarantee that he would
                                sit and eat with this man, and pray with him, and
                                deliver him from this. This man is asking for our help
                                and the fact that you are so "disgusted" you can't
                                handle it is sad. Our sin of homosexuality is just as
                                repulsing to many people. You can't understand the sin
                                fully unless you've experienced it. I pray that you
                                rethink your thoughts, and start thinking about how we
                                can help this brother overcome satan. Just think about
                                it. GOd bless.

                                aNDY
                                --- Tim Way <inotheway@...> wrote:
                                > Hi Mike and Inge,
                                >
                                > I'm not judging anyone. You are judging me and my
                                > convictions, and the thoughts that I just cant even
                                > bear in my mind. I cant even deal with hearing about
                                > child molesters in my area without it making me sick
                                > to my stomach. Even the criminal justice system
                                > contains inmates who take care of this injustice by
                                > purging these demented predators from the prisons.
                                > This sin is so disgusting to me I cant but vomit the
                                > very knowledge of it from my mind. As far as this
                                > man who is struggling with it, I'm not condemning
                                > him at all. I just cant allow the subject matter in
                                > my mind as I'm SO repulsed by it. Whether you like
                                > it or not Mike and Inge. That sin is the very thing
                                > that invokes the wrath of God upon all who entertain
                                > it. It is like blood guiltiness. Please for the
                                > sanctity of the rest of us who are not that far
                                > gone, please don't invite that element of depravity
                                > here I beg you. May you come to your senses before
                                > this ministry is turned aside to the vermin.Tim Way
                                >
                                > Michael Crumpler <good7boy2002@...> wrote:
                                > Thanks Inge!
                                > I totally agree!
                                > This is not a public trial, but a support group!
                                > Our Brother has chosen to share his struggle and is
                                > seeking help, only to be slammed by Tim! What a
                                > shame!
                                > Child molestation is an awful act! That's why we
                                > should do everything in our power to prevent
                                > perpertrators from doing it. I pray that through our
                                > love and encouragement our brother will be led away
                                > from the need and desire to be with teen boys.
                                >
                                > Tim......"let he who thinks he stand take heed lest
                                > he fall...."
                                >
                                > Mike
                                > Inge Anderson <inge@...> wrote:
                                > Tim,
                                >
                                > Your sharing your reaction to pedophilia below came
                                > at a particularly
                                > inappropriate juncture.
                                >
                                > A brother in Christ shared his struggles, and you
                                > answer with *this*!!
                                >
                                > How would you feel if you shared some of your
                                > struggles on this board, and,
                                > instead of replying to your concerns, I wrote to
                                > tell you that I had met a
                                > homosexual and was *so* repulsed by him!!
                                > Furthermore, what if I pointed
                                > out that the biblical punishment for same-gender sex
                                > was stoning and
                                > lamenting that society no longer did this.
                                >
                                > How would that help *you*?
                                >
                                > That's exactly what you just did to your brother on
                                > this list who made
                                > himself vulnerable by writing about his struggle of
                                > being attracted to
                                > young people. Before posting on a board like this,
                                > where vulnerable people
                                > come for Christian support, it is good to pray the
                                > prayer of David in Psalm
                                > 141.3:
                                > "Set a watch, O LORD, before my mouth; keep the door
                                > of my lips." This is
                                > *not* a place to "let it all hang out" without
                                > considering how it will
                                > affect a fellow struggler.
                                >
                                > Michael's note was "right on"! Thank you, Michael
                                > for your contribution.
                                >
                                > Blessings,
                                > Inge Anderson
                                >
                                > At 10:52 AM 10/1/2003 -0700, Tim Way wrote:
                                > >Hi Guys,
                                > >
                                > >One thing that comes to my mind is the admonition
                                > from Jesus Christ when
                                > >he warns about hurting one of these little ones who
                                > trust in me. He said
                                > >that it would be better to die a violent death than
                                > that you should hurt
                                > >one of these little one's. The penalty our society
                                > puts on child molesters
                                > >is a period of confinement plus financial penalties
                                > then a period of
                                > >partial freedom and ridicule with a lack of
                                > privacy. Gods law merely
                                > >required immediate death penalty by societal
                                > stoning. I met a child
                                > >molester some 18 years ago. I was so repulsed by
                                > him that I couldn't even
                                > >peaceably talk to him.Before Gays were portrayed as
                                > anything but perverts
                                > >in our society years ago most straight people were
                                > repulsed at the mere
                                > >thought of homosexual perversion. I hope society
                                > never excepts child
                                > >molesters as an acceptable alternative lifestyle.
                                > Tim Way
                                >
                                > Inge Anderson <inge@...>
                                >
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                              • Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II
                                I was referring to the attraction when I said, the person who HAS pedophilia. My question was pretty simple, or at least I thought it was: Do we do as Tim
                                Message 15 of 30 , Oct 2, 2003
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                                  I was referring to the attraction when I said, "the person who HAS
                                  pedophilia." My question was pretty simple, or at least I thought it
                                  was: Do we do as Tim suggested and do the modern American equivalent
                                  of stoning the person to death or do we treat him the way Jesus
                                  treated the woman caught in adultery.

                                  If you think that it's perfectly acceptable and normal to have either
                                  same-sex attraction or an attraction to children (or, in the case of
                                  the person who posted, a pederastic attraction), then I'd like you to
                                  show me how such attractions are consistent with God's created design
                                  as found in Genesis. I didn't say anything about the attractions
                                  being sin and I really wish you folks would actually READ my posts
                                  instead of reading into them.

                                  --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Inge Anderson
                                  <inge@g...> wrote:
                                  > At 08:21 PM 10/1/2003 +0000, Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II wrote:
                                  > >But what do we do for the person who has pedophilia? Do we do the
                                  > >modern American equivalent of taking him out and stoning him to
                                  death
                                  > >or do we treat him the way Jesus treated the woman caught in
                                  adultery
                                  > >and say to him, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more"?
                                  >
                                  > In this case, however, we are not dealing with a pedophile on this
                                  board.
                                  > Someone who has a strong *temptation/attraction* in that direction
                                  has just
                                  > opened his heart to us.
                                  >
                                  > Just as the Bible does not condemn anyone for being *attracted* to
                                  one's
                                  > own gender (any more than the rest of us sinners are condemned), so
                                  surely
                                  > we have no right to judge anyone else who has an inappropriate
                                  sexual
                                  > attraction. The bible clearly condemns sexual *activity* outside
                                  of
                                  > marriage. By the grace of God we all deal with various
                                  inappropriate
                                  > attractions. And our new member has shared that, by the grace of
                                  God, he
                                  > has *not* given in to his attraction.
                                  >
                                  > How many others on this board can say they have not given in to
                                  their
                                  > attraction?
                                  >
                                  > The more we love Christ -- and that will happen naturally as we
                                  spend more
                                  > time with Him -- the less attractive sin will appear to us. And
                                  the more
                                  > compassionate we will be with those whose sins differ from ours. A
                                  > relationship with Him will also fill some of that love hunger that
                                  drives
                                  > individuals to various forms of false intimacy.
                                  >
                                  > Blessings,
                                  > Inge Anderson
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Inge Anderson <inge@g...>
                                  > *********************************************************
                                  > Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
                                  > Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
                                  > *********************************************************
                                  > A bruised reed shall he not break....
                                  > Isaiah 42:3
                                  > *********************************************************
                                • philtft
                                  Inge You are absolutely right. We of all people should be well aware that ALL HAVE SINNED and fallen short. All of us have the same death sentance on us and
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Oct 2, 2003
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                                    Inge

                                    You are absolutely right.

                                    We of all people should be well aware that ALL HAVE SINNED and fallen
                                    short. All of us have the same death sentance on us and the blood of
                                    Jesus avails for ALL sin.

                                    We need to be ever conscious of the sentance that Christ released US
                                    from, and not look down on other brothers who struggle.

                                    Phil


                                    --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Inge Anderson
                                    <inge@g...> wrote:
                                    > Tim,
                                    >
                                    > I am personally offended by the language you used in your post in
                                    reference
                                    > to a brother in Christ who was courageous enough to share his
                                    lonely
                                    > struggle. Your attitude does NOT demonstrate the spirit of Christ.
                                    There
                                    > was no basis for your post on "child molesters" except this man's
                                    sharing.
                                    > The Lord Jesus had strong words to say about one who would call his
                                    brother
                                    > a "fool," and you used the word "vermin"!!
                                    >
                                    > Please come to your senses & actually *read* what's on this forum
                                    instead
                                    > of sending in wild, emotional posts! (Your reaction is *exactly*
                                    the same
                                    > as many straight people who react to the very thought
                                    of "homosexuality"
                                    > with so much emotion that they don't even hear that the person is
                                    living a
                                    > godly life and does NOT engage in same-gender sex! To them *you*
                                    are the
                                    > "vermin"!)
                                    >
                                    > There IS NO CHILD MOLESTER ON THIS FORUM! The subject matter in
                                    your mind
                                    > is of your own making, Please don't blame anyone else for it.
                                    >
                                    > A brother in Christ shared his attraction to under-age boys --
                                    something
                                    > that is rather common among gay men, I might add. He shared that he
                                    HAS NOT
                                    > given in to the temptation.
                                    >
                                    > Can you say the same regarding your attraction to men? (Maybe
                                    you're only
                                    > attracted to men older than yourself?)
                                    >
                                    > Unfortunately it is human nature to be repulsed by temptations
                                    different
                                    > from our own. But the Bible clearly condemns *all* sex outside of
                                    marriage
                                    > -- and certainly sex among members of the same gender. So we're
                                    *all* in
                                    > the same boat here -- all condemned to die with no hope of heaven
                                    EXCEPT
                                    > for the love of Christ who died for EACH OF US -- no matter from
                                    what
                                    > directions our temptations come.
                                    >
                                    > This is the second so-called support forum on which I've seen
                                    homosexually
                                    > oriented men jump with condemnation on someone who shared a
                                    struggle with
                                    > attraction to under-age boys. Interesting how those who seek
                                    understanding
                                    > and compassion for themselves have none to offer those who have a
                                    slightly
                                    > different struggle.
                                    >
                                    > You seem so certain that someone else's temptation is worse than
                                    your
                                    > sin. In the process, you may very well be offending "one of these
                                    little
                                    > ones" of whom Christ spoke. Remember that when we come to Christ,
                                    we are
                                    > "born again." Someone just born is a *child* of God for whom the
                                    Lord has
                                    > the greatest solicitude.
                                    >
                                    > You cannot make yourself more holy by condemning someone with a
                                    different
                                    > struggle. Holiness is demonstrated by showing a spirit like that of
                                    Jesus
                                    > who did NOT condemn a struggling sinner.
                                    >
                                    > When we *really* sense the wonderful gift of Christ's salvation, we
                                    shall
                                    > be so filled with gratitude that He would save a sinner like ME,
                                    that we
                                    > will not feel superior to others but reach out to them with love --
                                    like
                                    > one beggar taking another beggar by the hand and showing him where
                                    there is
                                    > an abundant source of food.
                                    >
                                    > Jesus made it clear that He could do nothing for those who felt
                                    themselves
                                    > holier than other sinners -- "not so far gone" --and wrapped their
                                    robes of
                                    > 'sanctity' about themselves. He said that the man who cried, "God
                                    be
                                    > merciful to me, a sinner!" went to his home justified. And without
                                    His
                                    > justification, we have no hope. Our robes of "sanctity" are but
                                    filthy rags
                                    > in His eyes.
                                    >
                                    > May He be merciful to you and me!
                                    >
                                    > In His grace,
                                    > Inge
                                    >
                                    > PS Christ can even forgive those who *have* molested children. He's
                                    saved
                                    > mass murderers before -- like King Manasseh, for instance. He
                                    suffers with
                                    > the victims of abuse, even while He's ready to save the abuser.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > At 11:41 PM 10/1/2003 -0700, Tim Way wrote:
                                    > >Hi Mike and Inge,
                                    > >
                                    > >I'm not judging anyone. You are judging me and my convictions, and
                                    the
                                    > >thoughts that I just cant even bear in my mind. I cant even deal
                                    with
                                    > >hearing about child molesters in my area without it making me sick
                                    to my
                                    > >stomach. Even the criminal justice system contains inmates who
                                    take care
                                    > >of this injustice by purging these demented predators from the
                                    prisons.
                                    > >This sin is so disgusting to me I cant but vomit the very
                                    knowledge of it
                                    > >from my mind. As far as this man who is struggling with it, I'm
                                    not
                                    > >condemning him at all. I just cant allow the subject matter in my
                                    mind as
                                    > >I'm SO repulsed by it. Whether you like it or not Mike and Inge.
                                    That sin
                                    > >is the very thing that invokes the wrath of God upon all who
                                    entertain it.
                                    > >It is like blood guiltiness. Please for the sanctity of the rest
                                    of us who
                                    > >are not that far gone, please don't invite that element of
                                    depravity here
                                    > >I beg you. May you come to your senses before this ministry is
                                    turned
                                    > >aside to the vermin.Tim Way
                                    >
                                    > Inge Anderson <inge@g...>
                                    > *********************************************************
                                    > Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
                                    > Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
                                    > *********************************************************
                                    > A bruised reed shall he not break....
                                    > Isaiah 42:3
                                    > *********************************************************
                                  • Christa Tickle
                                    Hi theslink. I wanted to let you know that I applaud you for voicing this issue with the group. Although it is hard for some of us to understand, it is my
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Oct 2, 2003
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                                      Hi theslink. I wanted to let you know that I applaud you for voicing this issue with the group. Although it is hard for some of us to understand, it is my belief that sin is sin is sin. It is all sin. Homosexuality, fornication, pedophilia...all sin. We can use other terms to describe it...addiction, obsession, lifestyle, preference, but in God's truth, it is sin. Bringing this out into the open with your Christian friends is the first step to freedom from this bondage to sin. What you are under is very much a bondage. The dictionary defines bondage as: the state of one who is bound as a slave or servant;a state of subjection to a force, power, or influence. This is what you are under right now...the influence of Satan and the bondage of the sin that originally started with your negative experiences in childhood. I am leading up to something, so bear with me, I think this will be fairly long.

                                      I first want to make sure you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior...you have asked the Lord to forgive you and cleanse you of all unrighteousness. You have accepted Christ's death on the cross as payment for your sin...you were a sinner, born in Adam (in Adam's lineage) and destined to die in Adam. In other words, you, like everyone else, was born on your way to hell to live eternally apart from God. The only way we are able to live eternally in the presence of a holy, perfect, and righteous God is to accept the only person who can bridge that sin gap on our behalf...Jesus! We cannot work our way into heaven. Our BEHAVIOR does not determine our eternal destiny...all of us were on our way to hell according to Scripture (the Bible). God sent a gift in the form of His son...that whosoever believes in Him (Christ Jesus) will have everlasting life!!! Now, if you believe Jesus died for your sins...and you have asked for forgiveness for your sins, two things have
                                      occurred in your life. 1. You have been forgiven and your name has been written in the Lamb's book of Life! 2. Your Spirit that was once dead (in Adam) has now been brought to life! Two things have happened! The Spirit of God Himself embodies a person who has accepted Jesus Christ! (1 Corin. 6:19; 3:16) There are only two types of people in the world...those who are "in Adam" and those who are "in Christ." It is the sinner versus the saint. Just as our physical characteristics were determined at birth by our biological parents, our spiritual characteristics were determined at birth by our spiritual father "the prince of the power of the air" Satan (Ephesians 2:1-2). You did not become a sinner...you were BORN a sinner because you were born in Adam (Romans 5:11-19). Your birth determines identity! You were born hostile and alienated from God (Colossians 1:21), a child of wrath (Eph. 2:1,5), condemned (Romans 6:23), spiritually dead (Eph. 2:1,5), an enemy of God (Romans 5:8-10), and a
                                      slave of sin (Romans 6:17).

                                      When you invited Jesus into your life, you were reborn! A NEW BIRTH!!! (1 Peter 1:23). You were transferred out of Satan's kingdom (Adam's lineage) and into God's kingdom (Jesus' lineage). Read Colossians 1:13 You went from being a caterpillar to a butterfly...and butterflies should no longer crawl around with the worms! But that is what most of us do...although we have been transformed into beautiful butterflies, we often still behave like worms, hang out with worms, and continue to live the life of a worm! You now have all of Christ's spiritual characteristics because you are now "in Christ." (1 Corinthians 12:27; 1 Cor. 6:17; 1 Corin. 12:27) You are a member of Christ's body...you are united with the Lord (one spirit). You are God's child (John 1:12). You are complete in Christ. (Colossians 2:10). You are born of God, the evil one cannot touch you. (1 John 5:18)

                                      You WERE a sinner. Now, you are a SAINT! Do you still sin? Yes, because your body (flesh) and your Spirit are at war! You are no longer a sinner...you are a saint who sins! There is a HUGE difference here. Romans 7:21-23 states: "I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wishes to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I [the new creation in Christ] see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members." There is a conflict with the new creation in Christ...and the power that dwells in us. We are not evil...the evil is the law of sin. Paul calls this war...and it is definitely war. We are righteous, holy, and blameless before God in Christ Jesus...but we don't always act, think, or feel that way. This is why we have to reprogram our minds to truth. Where do the thoughts come from? Satan! You are not waging war against
                                      yourself...these thoughts are coming from Satan. At the same time, you are allowing them to invade your mind...they in turn, will invade your body. Once we receive the thoughts and they are ours, the sinning is a product of those thoughts. Satan knows our old ways as he was instrumental in their programming! We can't stop him from giving us thoughts but we do not have to receive those thoughts because those thoughts are LIES! The traumatic experiences of your childhood have been seared into your mind, your memory banks, and they became part of your flesh: meeting your own needs with your own resources. These thoughts, emotions, and behaviors that influence your everyday existence are a direct result of your experiences. Satan, THE DECEIVER, will give you thoughts that keep all of your flesh in an uproar. You still consider yourself a homosexual, pedofile, sinner, etc. You may even consider yourself unworthy of being loved by someone heterosexual. You can overcome your past and flesh
                                      patterns but it will not happen overnight. You must reprogram your mind...your personal computer...to absolute TRUTH. How do you do this? You have to believe God will take over this battle for you and through you. You just have to allow Him to fight the battle. You have to first choose by your own free will to allow Christ to fight this battle for you. You have to give this to him every time you embark upon a struggle, a thought, a desire, a sensation, a emotion, a hurt, a feeling, an urge! You must set your mind to truth...God lives in you. God's strength can enable you to make the choice to flee the thoughts Satan presents to you on a daily basis. Satan's goal is to deceive and destroy each of us. Every time Satan offers you a choice...even if it is in singular, first-person format [I want this, I want that, this urge is too hard for "me" to bear] remember that Satan is knocking on the threshold of your mind and thoughts. Block him out. Rebuke him out! When Satan offers us a
                                      choice, a thought, a temptation...God opens a door of escape. You don't do this in your own strength. YOU CAN'T DEFEAT THIS apart from Jesus Christ. Christ is your strength. Christ will do it FOR YOU. How? You pray...when the thoughts come...ask Jesus to do it for you...that you can't do it. You can't resist on your own. You pursue the right course of action: You stop, you refuse, you turn, and you head the other direction, all the while believing by faith that it is His life through you, that He is your source, and that you are drawing from the power that now lives inside you!!! I used to love alcohol in college...I still have an occasional desire to partake and every time the thought enters my mind, God provides a means of escape. I decide "I need a drink." Satan introduces the thought...I then get up to go to the kitchen. (Chance one...refuse to go to the kitchen to look for a drink) I open the refrigerator (deliverance opportunity #2 as I could resist opening the refrigerator in
                                      my search) I don't see any beer in the fridge so I then decide I could make a quick run to the grocery store (escape three) I go get the keys (escape 4) I get in my car (escape 5) I get to the grocery store (escape 6) I bring the beer up to the counter to purchase it (escape 7...I could leave the store at this point before indulging in a drink, empty-handed, and return home with Coca-Cola instead). Corinthians 10:13 It is a battle starting in our minds...what we do with those initial thoughts truly has an outcome on whether or not we choose to follow through or deny the act of sin. Oftentimes, I will argue with myself...I could do this, but I know that is wrong. It is a constant battle. Until we leave our earthly bodies behind, we will experience this battle.

                                      You have a NEW identity. Your identity is now in Christ. You are now an heir to the throne of Jesus and accepted by God, not because of your actions, thoughts, or sin...but because of Jesus! The only sin that will ever send a man to hell is his disbelief. The gift of salvation (Jesus) is there...it is just there for those who choose to accept it. You are already reconciled with God. Your behavior does not make you who you are. Your BEHAVIOR does not change your identity!!! (Romans 5:6, 8, 10) The old you is gone now...and Christ has replaced the old you with His very Spirit.

                                      Behavior does not change until a person's identity changes. In other words, our belief about ourselves determines our behavior. Satan wants us to believe his lie that our behavior tells us what to believe about ourselves. WRONG. Your identity does not come from what you have done...in the past. Nor does it come from what you did today or do tomorrow. It comes from what God has done for us.

                                      Your personal computer (brain) has been programmed over the years of emotional and mental abuse and rejection through no fault of your own. For whatever reasons, your parents also had some pattern of thinking and belief system that unfortunately led to their own mistakes. What I think the world has us do to "solve" our problems is receive counseling. We're told to talk about our problems without considering the simple fact that our underlying need is to be reconciled with God. We then need to reprogram our flesh patterns...reprogram our way of thinking to TRUTH! You have been led to believe that you are unworthy, unlovable, undesirable, inadequate, inferior, worthless, etc. These are some of the patterns have formed and have been embedded in your brain throughout your life, courtesy of Satan and his craftiness. Remember that your parents were victims of this process too...those who abused you, those you partnered with over the years, those who were living with the same underlying
                                      need for acceptance, love, forgiveness, understanding, significance, security...were all experiencing the flesh. Each of us has a flesh pattern...a way of thinking, doing, believing, and behaving.

                                      What you must do to achieve freedom from this bondage is to reprogram your mind to the TRUTH of your identity in Christ. You are a SAINT! You are completely accepted by Christ and God. Your identity does not come from what other people say or think about you, nor does it come from what they do to you. Your identity comes from what God says and thinks and BELIEVES about you. God sees you as a SAINT. You are His precious child, whom He loves beyond measure. Nothing you do will ever change God's love for you. He wants for you to realize your identity in Him so He can free you from this bondage. Your behavior will not change until your thoughts and flesh patterns are realized and changed. This is what the Bible means when it refers to renewing the mind to truth. (Romans 12:2) "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is�his good, pleasing and perfect will."

                                      Your emotions are not always true...but they are real. What you are feeling, experiencing, desiring...is all a product of your way of thinking and your flesh pattern. I recommend you read "Lifetime Guarantee" by Bill Gillham. Also check out "Classic Christianity" by Bob George. These two resources may not touch on these thoughts in your mind but they will help you to reprogram your mind to truth. I will be praying for you. Remember that although it is hard for you to share your struggles here in the forum and elsewhere...Satan will not have a stronghold over you as confession is a first step to freedom. I'm not suggesting you blast your congregation with your experiences...but finding those who love you and know you are special, worthy, and a terrific child of God will be able to pick you up and pray with you when your struggles are at their peak. You may go through many ups and downs but eventually, I believe God will help you find total freedom from these desires. I will type up a
                                      list of verses I want you to read each day. (I did this for several months before my self-esteem and belief changed...it was a necessary thing for me and although I didn't struggle with homosexual desires, I too had an emotionally abusive childhood) I'll try to get the verses out by this weekend. Read them aloud, looking at yourself in the mirror...as much as possible. It will be tough and you'll feel awkward...but after time, your mind WILL be renewed to TRUTH. And one day, you will wake up and your desires will seem so foreign to you because you will believe you are who God says you are! This is how my behavior changed. This is how my detrimental thoughts and internal depression was driven away. Now, when someone offends me, hurts my feelings, or I feel the need to act contrary to my identity, I read my Bible verses! "[You] are free from any charge against [you]. Romans 8:31-34

                                      We will be praying for you.

                                      Love and prayers,
                                      Christa


                                      theslink@... wrote:

                                      I have a very serious problem. While I am a sex addict and have had homosexual encounters with men I am really attracted to teen age boys. While I have never offended with under age kids I have had problems with child pornography in the past. Thankfully the Lord has kept me from all forms of pornography for about a year. This is a big turn around since I used to spend hours every day looking at porn. I feel so alone because all of the books I have found about recovering for homosexuality deal strictly with adult attractions and none of the members of my group are pedophiles. Can anyone recommend a title about pedophilia?

                                      Also I have read one book about homosexual recovery. It said that the key to recovery was to build relationships. Is recovery really as easy as making friends? There has to be something more to this. I was seriously abused as a child physically and emotionally (but not sexually) by my father and grandmother. While I have forgiven them I still think my problems are rooted in my childhood and my rejection by my peers. I am in secular therapy but they seem to focus more on changing my behavior than addressing underlying emotional problems. Thats not to say I haven't made good progress. My sex drive is more under control and I haven't had any same sex contact in a year and I have gotten out of porn. But I am still hurting, lonely, and have problems with lust and masturbation anywhere from once to twice a week to once every two weeks. I really want to heal and be normal. Can anybody offer any words of advice??

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                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Inge Anderson
                                      ... And I agree with the intent of your post. My reply wasn t intended to disagree with your post. ... Of course not. But then none of us have characters
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Oct 2, 2003
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        At 05:45 PM 10/2/2003 +0000, Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II wrote:
                                        >I was referring to the attraction when I said, "the person who HAS
                                        >pedophilia." My question was pretty simple, or at least I thought it
                                        >was: Do we do as Tim suggested and do the modern American equivalent
                                        >of stoning the person to death or do we treat him the way Jesus
                                        >treated the woman caught in adultery.

                                        And I agree with the intent of your post. My reply wasn't intended to
                                        disagree with your post.

                                        >If you think that it's perfectly acceptable and normal to have either
                                        >same-sex attraction or an attraction to children (or, in the case of
                                        >the person who posted, a pederastic attraction), then I'd like you to
                                        >show me how such attractions are consistent with God's created design
                                        >as found in Genesis.

                                        Of course not. But then none of us have characters "consistent with God's
                                        design in Genesis." We are *all* lost without Christ's death in our behalf.
                                        That was my point. None of us have anything to boast of -- except in the
                                        grace of Christ. And the one who has been forgiven much, loves much.

                                        In His grace,
                                        Inge



                                        Inge Anderson <inge@...>
                                        *********************************************************
                                        Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
                                        Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
                                        *********************************************************
                                        A bruised reed shall he not break....
                                        Isaiah 42:3
                                        *********************************************************
                                      • Tim Way
                                        Hi Inge, Ive watched your posts for some time now and I m appalled by your red-eyed contentions you like to usurp over other people when they differ from your
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Oct 2, 2003
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hi Inge,

                                          Ive watched your posts for some time now and I'm appalled by your red-eyed contentions you like to usurp over other people when they differ from your view point even a little. You've criticized me for my weaknesses and my convictions and that publicly for all to see. Why dont you practice what you preach and remove the log from your own eye first before removing the splinter from mine. I have in no way condemned this other brother, neither publicly nor privily. Ive merely expressed to the best of my ability my disdain for his sin, not the sinner himself. Tim Way

                                          Inge Anderson <inge@...> wrote:
                                          Tim,

                                          I am personally offended by the language you used in your post in reference
                                          to a brother in Christ who was courageous enough to share his lonely
                                          struggle. Your attitude does NOT demonstrate the spirit of Christ. There
                                          was no basis for your post on "child molesters" except this man's sharing.
                                          The Lord Jesus had strong words to say about one who would call his brother
                                          a "fool," and you used the word "vermin"!!

                                          Please come to your senses & actually *read* what's on this forum instead
                                          of sending in wild, emotional posts! (Your reaction is *exactly* the same
                                          as many straight people who react to the very thought of "homosexuality"
                                          with so much emotion that they don't even hear that the person is living a
                                          godly life and does NOT engage in same-gender sex! To them *you* are the
                                          "vermin"!)

                                          There IS NO CHILD MOLESTER ON THIS FORUM! The subject matter in your mind
                                          is of your own making, Please don't blame anyone else for it.

                                          A brother in Christ shared his attraction to under-age boys -- something
                                          that is rather common among gay men, I might add. He shared that he HAS NOT
                                          given in to the temptation.

                                          Can you say the same regarding your attraction to men? (Maybe you're only
                                          attracted to men older than yourself?)

                                          Unfortunately it is human nature to be repulsed by temptations different
                                          from our own. But the Bible clearly condemns *all* sex outside of marriage
                                          -- and certainly sex among members of the same gender. So we're *all* in
                                          the same boat here -- all condemned to die with no hope of heaven EXCEPT
                                          for the love of Christ who died for EACH OF US -- no matter from what
                                          directions our temptations come.

                                          This is the second so-called support forum on which I've seen homosexually
                                          oriented men jump with condemnation on someone who shared a struggle with
                                          attraction to under-age boys. Interesting how those who seek understanding
                                          and compassion for themselves have none to offer those who have a slightly
                                          different struggle.

                                          You seem so certain that someone else's temptation is worse than your
                                          sin. In the process, you may very well be offending "one of these little
                                          ones" of whom Christ spoke. Remember that when we come to Christ, we are
                                          "born again." Someone just born is a *child* of God for whom the Lord has
                                          the greatest solicitude.

                                          You cannot make yourself more holy by condemning someone with a different
                                          struggle. Holiness is demonstrated by showing a spirit like that of Jesus
                                          who did NOT condemn a struggling sinner.

                                          When we *really* sense the wonderful gift of Christ's salvation, we shall
                                          be so filled with gratitude that He would save a sinner like ME, that we
                                          will not feel superior to others but reach out to them with love -- like
                                          one beggar taking another beggar by the hand and showing him where there is
                                          an abundant source of food.

                                          Jesus made it clear that He could do nothing for those who felt themselves
                                          holier than other sinners -- "not so far gone" --and wrapped their robes of
                                          'sanctity' about themselves. He said that the man who cried, "God be
                                          merciful to me, a sinner!" went to his home justified. And without His
                                          justification, we have no hope. Our robes of "sanctity" are but filthy rags
                                          in His eyes.

                                          May He be merciful to you and me!

                                          In His grace,
                                          Inge

                                          PS Christ can even forgive those who *have* molested children. He's saved
                                          mass murderers before -- like King Manasseh, for instance. He suffers with
                                          the victims of abuse, even while He's ready to save the abuser.


                                          At 11:41 PM 10/1/2003 -0700, Tim Way wrote:
                                          >Hi Mike and Inge,
                                          >
                                          >I'm not judging anyone. You are judging me and my convictions, and the
                                          >thoughts that I just cant even bear in my mind. I cant even deal with
                                          >hearing about child molesters in my area without it making me sick to my
                                          >stomach. Even the criminal justice system contains inmates who take care
                                          >of this injustice by purging these demented predators from the prisons.
                                          >This sin is so disgusting to me I cant but vomit the very knowledge of it
                                          >from my mind. As far as this man who is struggling with it, I'm not
                                          >condemning him at all. I just cant allow the subject matter in my mind as
                                          >I'm SO repulsed by it. Whether you like it or not Mike and Inge. That sin
                                          >is the very thing that invokes the wrath of God upon all who entertain it.
                                          >It is like blood guiltiness. Please for the sanctity of the rest of us who
                                          >are not that far gone, please don't invite that element of depravity here
                                          >I beg you. May you come to your senses before this ministry is turned
                                          >aside to the vermin.Tim Way

                                          Inge Anderson <inge@...>
                                          *********************************************************
                                          Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
                                          Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
                                          *********************************************************
                                          A bruised reed shall he not break....
                                          Isaiah 42:3
                                          *********************************************************


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                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Tim Way
                                          Hi Inge, There you go puting words in my mouth again and / or twisting the words that I have said before to say something that I didnt mean at all. Shame on
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Oct 2, 2003
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hi Inge,

                                            There you go puting words in my mouth again and / or twisting the words that I have said before to say something that I didnt mean at all. Shame on you, you contentous girl. Tim Way

                                            Inge Anderson <inge@...> wrote:
                                            Tim,

                                            I am personally offended by the language you used in your post in reference
                                            to a brother in Christ who was courageous enough to share his lonely
                                            struggle. Your attitude does NOT demonstrate the spirit of Christ. There
                                            was no basis for your post on "child molesters" except this man's sharing.
                                            The Lord Jesus had strong words to say about one who would call his brother
                                            a "fool," and you used the word "vermin"!!

                                            Please come to your senses & actually *read* what's on this forum instead
                                            of sending in wild, emotional posts! (Your reaction is *exactly* the same
                                            as many straight people who react to the very thought of "homosexuality"
                                            with so much emotion that they don't even hear that the person is living a
                                            godly life and does NOT engage in same-gender sex! To them *you* are the
                                            "vermin"!)

                                            There IS NO CHILD MOLESTER ON THIS FORUM! The subject matter in your mind
                                            is of your own making, Please don't blame anyone else for it.

                                            A brother in Christ shared his attraction to under-age boys -- something
                                            that is rather common among gay men, I might add. He shared that he HAS NOT
                                            given in to the temptation.

                                            Can you say the same regarding your attraction to men? (Maybe you're only
                                            attracted to men older than yourself?)

                                            Unfortunately it is human nature to be repulsed by temptations different
                                            from our own. But the Bible clearly condemns *all* sex outside of marriage
                                            -- and certainly sex among members of the same gender. So we're *all* in
                                            the same boat here -- all condemned to die with no hope of heaven EXCEPT
                                            for the love of Christ who died for EACH OF US -- no matter from what
                                            directions our temptations come.

                                            This is the second so-called support forum on which I've seen homosexually
                                            oriented men jump with condemnation on someone who shared a struggle with
                                            attraction to under-age boys. Interesting how those who seek understanding
                                            and compassion for themselves have none to offer those who have a slightly
                                            different struggle.

                                            You seem so certain that someone else's temptation is worse than your
                                            sin. In the process, you may very well be offending "one of these little
                                            ones" of whom Christ spoke. Remember that when we come to Christ, we are
                                            "born again." Someone just born is a *child* of God for whom the Lord has
                                            the greatest solicitude.

                                            You cannot make yourself more holy by condemning someone with a different
                                            struggle. Holiness is demonstrated by showing a spirit like that of Jesus
                                            who did NOT condemn a struggling sinner.

                                            When we *really* sense the wonderful gift of Christ's salvation, we shall
                                            be so filled with gratitude that He would save a sinner like ME, that we
                                            will not feel superior to others but reach out to them with love -- like
                                            one beggar taking another beggar by the hand and showing him where there is
                                            an abundant source of food.

                                            Jesus made it clear that He could do nothing for those who felt themselves
                                            holier than other sinners -- "not so far gone" --and wrapped their robes of
                                            'sanctity' about themselves. He said that the man who cried, "God be
                                            merciful to me, a sinner!" went to his home justified. And without His
                                            justification, we have no hope. Our robes of "sanctity" are but filthy rags
                                            in His eyes.

                                            May He be merciful to you and me!

                                            In His grace,
                                            Inge

                                            PS Christ can even forgive those who *have* molested children. He's saved
                                            mass murderers before -- like King Manasseh, for instance. He suffers with
                                            the victims of abuse, even while He's ready to save the abuser.


                                            At 11:41 PM 10/1/2003 -0700, Tim Way wrote:
                                            >Hi Mike and Inge,
                                            >
                                            >I'm not judging anyone. You are judging me and my convictions, and the
                                            >thoughts that I just cant even bear in my mind. I cant even deal with
                                            >hearing about child molesters in my area without it making me sick to my
                                            >stomach. Even the criminal justice system contains inmates who take care
                                            >of this injustice by purging these demented predators from the prisons.
                                            >This sin is so disgusting to me I cant but vomit the very knowledge of it
                                            >from my mind. As far as this man who is struggling with it, I'm not
                                            >condemning him at all. I just cant allow the subject matter in my mind as
                                            >I'm SO repulsed by it. Whether you like it or not Mike and Inge. That sin
                                            >is the very thing that invokes the wrath of God upon all who entertain it.
                                            >It is like blood guiltiness. Please for the sanctity of the rest of us who
                                            >are not that far gone, please don't invite that element of depravity here
                                            >I beg you. May you come to your senses before this ministry is turned
                                            >aside to the vermin.Tim Way

                                            Inge Anderson <inge@...>
                                            *********************************************************
                                            Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
                                            Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
                                            *********************************************************
                                            A bruised reed shall he not break....
                                            Isaiah 42:3
                                            *********************************************************


                                            Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

                                            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                            Questions on the group? contact founder directly at: ncxds@...

                                            The Ex-Gay Discussion Board is a ministry of:
                                            NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries

                                            Feel free to link to these pages on your own website:

                                            Web: <http://geocities.com/exgaylinks> | Discussion List: <http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat: <http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>




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                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • patrick
                                            Man you sound like you have it pretty tough, but seem to be whiteknucklilng it now. I do not post here all that much and if u have been reading some of the
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Oct 3, 2003
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Man you sound like you have it pretty tough, but seem to be
                                              whiteknucklilng it now. I do not post here all that much and if u
                                              have been reading some of the reactions to ur post u willunderstand
                                              why. If you would be intertested in some other boards that won't nail
                                              you email me at patrickkennnedy@... patrick
                                            • Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II
                                              Finally, something on which we agree. There is a tendency among many Christians, however, to say that because something is not sin that it must necessarily be
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Oct 3, 2003
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Finally, something on which we agree. There is a tendency among many
                                                Christians, however, to say that because something is not sin that it
                                                must necessarily be consistent with God's created design. It is my
                                                contention that every aspect of creation was damaged by that first
                                                sin in the Garden of Eden and/or subsequent sin (different ethnic
                                                groups, for example, came about as a result of that incident at the
                                                tower of Babel).

                                                --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Inge Anderson
                                                <inge@g...> wrote:
                                                But then none of us have characters "consistent with God's
                                                > design in Genesis." We are *all* lost without Christ's death in our
                                                behalf.
                                                > That was my point. None of us have anything to boast of -- except
                                                in the
                                                > grace of Christ.
                                                >
                                                > In His grace,
                                                > Inge
                                              • Jill
                                                Hi Christa, these are words of Life...i know you didn t write this to me, but thanks. Jill ... voicing this issue with the group. Although it is hard for some
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Oct 3, 2003
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Hi Christa,

                                                  these are words of Life...i know you didn't write this to me, but
                                                  thanks.

                                                  Jill

                                                  --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Christa Tickle
                                                  <ctickle777@y...> wrote:
                                                  > Hi theslink. I wanted to let you know that I applaud you for
                                                  voicing this issue with the group. Although it is hard for some of
                                                  us to understand, it is my belief that sin is sin is sin. It is all
                                                  sin. Homosexuality, fornication, pedophilia...all sin. We can use
                                                  other terms to describe it...addiction, obsession, lifestyle,
                                                  preference, but in God's truth, it is sin. Bringing this out into
                                                  the open with your Christian friends is the first step to freedom
                                                  from this bondage to sin. What you are under is very much a bondage.
                                                  The dictionary defines bondage as: the state of one who is bound as
                                                  a slave or servant;a state of subjection to a force, power, or
                                                  influence. This is what you are under right now...the influence of
                                                  Satan and the bondage of the sin that originally started with your
                                                  negative experiences in childhood. I am leading up to something, so
                                                  bear with me, I think this will be fairly long.
                                                  >
                                                  > I first want to make sure you have accepted Jesus Christ as your
                                                  personal Lord and Savior...you have asked the Lord to forgive you
                                                  and cleanse you of all unrighteousness. You have accepted Christ's
                                                  death on the cross as payment for your sin...you were a sinner, born
                                                  in Adam (in Adam's lineage) and destined to die in Adam. In other
                                                  words, you, like everyone else, was born on your way to hell to live
                                                  eternally apart from God. The only way we are able to live eternally
                                                  in the presence of a holy, perfect, and righteous God is to accept
                                                  the only person who can bridge that sin gap on our behalf...Jesus!
                                                  We cannot work our way into heaven. Our BEHAVIOR does not determine
                                                  our eternal destiny...all of us were on our way to hell according to
                                                  Scripture (the Bible). God sent a gift in the form of His son...that
                                                  whosoever believes in Him (Christ Jesus) will have everlasting
                                                  life!!! Now, if you believe Jesus died for your sins...and you have
                                                  asked for forgiveness for your sins, two things have
                                                  > occurred in your life. 1. You have been forgiven and your name
                                                  has been written in the Lamb's book of Life! 2. Your Spirit that was
                                                  once dead (in Adam) has now been brought to life! Two things have
                                                  happened! The Spirit of God Himself embodies a person who has
                                                  accepted Jesus Christ! (1 Corin. 6:19; 3:16) There are only two
                                                  types of people in the world...those who are "in Adam" and those who
                                                  are "in Christ." It is the sinner versus the saint. Just as our
                                                  physical characteristics were determined at birth by our biological
                                                  parents, our spiritual characteristics were determined at birth by
                                                  our spiritual father "the prince of the power of the air" Satan
                                                  (Ephesians 2:1-2). You did not become a sinner...you were BORN a
                                                  sinner because you were born in Adam (Romans 5:11-19). Your birth
                                                  determines identity! You were born hostile and alienated from God
                                                  (Colossians 1:21), a child of wrath (Eph. 2:1,5), condemned (Romans
                                                  6:23), spiritually dead (Eph. 2:1,5), an enemy of God (Romans 5:8-
                                                  10), and a
                                                  > slave of sin (Romans 6:17).
                                                  >
                                                  > When you invited Jesus into your life, you were reborn! A NEW
                                                  BIRTH!!! (1 Peter 1:23). You were transferred out of Satan's kingdom
                                                  (Adam's lineage) and into God's kingdom (Jesus' lineage). Read
                                                  Colossians 1:13 You went from being a caterpillar to a
                                                  butterfly...and butterflies should no longer crawl around with the
                                                  worms! But that is what most of us do...although we have been
                                                  transformed into beautiful butterflies, we often still behave like
                                                  worms, hang out with worms, and continue to live the life of a worm!
                                                  You now have all of Christ's spiritual characteristics because you
                                                  are now "in Christ." (1 Corinthians 12:27; 1 Cor. 6:17; 1 Corin.
                                                  12:27) You are a member of Christ's body...you are united with the
                                                  Lord (one spirit). You are God's child (John 1:12). You are complete
                                                  in Christ. (Colossians 2:10). You are born of God, the evil one
                                                  cannot touch you. (1 John 5:18)
                                                  >
                                                  > You WERE a sinner. Now, you are a SAINT! Do you still sin? Yes,
                                                  because your body (flesh) and your Spirit are at war! You are no
                                                  longer a sinner...you are a saint who sins! There is a HUGE
                                                  difference here. Romans 7:21-23 states: "I find then the principle
                                                  that evil is present in me, the one who wishes to do good. For I
                                                  joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I [the new
                                                  creation in Christ] see a different law in the members of my body,
                                                  waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of
                                                  the law of sin which is in my members." There is a conflict with
                                                  the new creation in Christ...and the power that dwells in us. We are
                                                  not evil...the evil is the law of sin. Paul calls this war...and it
                                                  is definitely war. We are righteous, holy, and blameless before God
                                                  in Christ Jesus...but we don't always act, think, or feel that way.
                                                  This is why we have to reprogram our minds to truth. Where do the
                                                  thoughts come from? Satan! You are not waging war against
                                                  > yourself...these thoughts are coming from Satan. At the same
                                                  time, you are allowing them to invade your mind...they in turn, will
                                                  invade your body. Once we receive the thoughts and they are ours,
                                                  the sinning is a product of those thoughts. Satan knows our old ways
                                                  as he was instrumental in their programming! We can't stop him from
                                                  giving us thoughts but we do not have to receive those thoughts
                                                  because those thoughts are LIES! The traumatic experiences of your
                                                  childhood have been seared into your mind, your memory banks, and
                                                  they became part of your flesh: meeting your own needs with your own
                                                  resources. These thoughts, emotions, and behaviors that influence
                                                  your everyday existence are a direct result of your experiences.
                                                  Satan, THE DECEIVER, will give you thoughts that keep all of your
                                                  flesh in an uproar. You still consider yourself a homosexual,
                                                  pedofile, sinner, etc. You may even consider yourself unworthy of
                                                  being loved by someone heterosexual. You can overcome your past and
                                                  flesh
                                                  > patterns but it will not happen overnight. You must reprogram
                                                  your mind...your personal computer...to absolute TRUTH. How do you
                                                  do this? You have to believe God will take over this battle for you
                                                  and through you. You just have to allow Him to fight the battle. You
                                                  have to first choose by your own free will to allow Christ to fight
                                                  this battle for you. You have to give this to him every time you
                                                  embark upon a struggle, a thought, a desire, a sensation, a emotion,
                                                  a hurt, a feeling, an urge! You must set your mind to truth...God
                                                  lives in you. God's strength can enable you to make the choice to
                                                  flee the thoughts Satan presents to you on a daily basis. Satan's
                                                  goal is to deceive and destroy each of us. Every time Satan offers
                                                  you a choice...even if it is in singular, first-person format [I
                                                  want this, I want that, this urge is too hard for "me" to bear]
                                                  remember that Satan is knocking on the threshold of your mind and
                                                  thoughts. Block him out. Rebuke him out! When Satan offers us a
                                                  > choice, a thought, a temptation...God opens a door of escape. You
                                                  don't do this in your own strength. YOU CAN'T DEFEAT THIS apart from
                                                  Jesus Christ. Christ is your strength. Christ will do it FOR YOU.
                                                  How? You pray...when the thoughts come...ask Jesus to do it for
                                                  you...that you can't do it. You can't resist on your own. You pursue
                                                  the right course of action: You stop, you refuse, you turn, and you
                                                  head the other direction, all the while believing by faith that it
                                                  is His life through you, that He is your source, and that you are
                                                  drawing from the power that now lives inside you!!! I used to love
                                                  alcohol in college...I still have an occasional desire to partake
                                                  and every time the thought enters my mind, God provides a means of
                                                  escape. I decide "I need a drink." Satan introduces the thought...I
                                                  then get up to go to the kitchen. (Chance one...refuse to go to the
                                                  kitchen to look for a drink) I open the refrigerator (deliverance
                                                  opportunity #2 as I could resist opening the refrigerator in
                                                  > my search) I don't see any beer in the fridge so I then decide I
                                                  could make a quick run to the grocery store (escape three) I go get
                                                  the keys (escape 4) I get in my car (escape 5) I get to the grocery
                                                  store (escape 6) I bring the beer up to the counter to purchase it
                                                  (escape 7...I could leave the store at this point before indulging
                                                  in a drink, empty-handed, and return home with Coca-Cola instead).
                                                  Corinthians 10:13 It is a battle starting in our minds...what we do
                                                  with those initial thoughts truly has an outcome on whether or not
                                                  we choose to follow through or deny the act of sin. Oftentimes, I
                                                  will argue with myself...I could do this, but I know that is wrong.
                                                  It is a constant battle. Until we leave our earthly bodies behind,
                                                  we will experience this battle.
                                                  >
                                                  > You have a NEW identity. Your identity is now in Christ. You are
                                                  now an heir to the throne of Jesus and accepted by God, not because
                                                  of your actions, thoughts, or sin...but because of Jesus! The only
                                                  sin that will ever send a man to hell is his disbelief. The gift of
                                                  salvation (Jesus) is there...it is just there for those who choose
                                                  to accept it. You are already reconciled with God. Your behavior
                                                  does not make you who you are. Your BEHAVIOR does not change your
                                                  identity!!! (Romans 5:6, 8, 10) The old you is gone now...and Christ
                                                  has replaced the old you with His very Spirit.
                                                  >
                                                  > Behavior does not change until a person's identity changes. In
                                                  other words, our belief about ourselves determines our behavior.
                                                  Satan wants us to believe his lie that our behavior tells us what to
                                                  believe about ourselves. WRONG. Your identity does not come from
                                                  what you have done...in the past. Nor does it come from what you did
                                                  today or do tomorrow. It comes from what God has done for us.
                                                  >
                                                  > Your personal computer (brain) has been programmed over the years
                                                  of emotional and mental abuse and rejection through no fault of your
                                                  own. For whatever reasons, your parents also had some pattern of
                                                  thinking and belief system that unfortunately led to their own
                                                  mistakes. What I think the world has us do to "solve" our problems
                                                  is receive counseling. We're told to talk about our problems without
                                                  considering the simple fact that our underlying need is to be
                                                  reconciled with God. We then need to reprogram our flesh
                                                  patterns...reprogram our way of thinking to TRUTH! You have been led
                                                  to believe that you are unworthy, unlovable, undesirable,
                                                  inadequate, inferior, worthless, etc. These are some of the
                                                  patterns have formed and have been embedded in your brain
                                                  throughout your life, courtesy of Satan and his craftiness. Remember
                                                  that your parents were victims of this process too...those who
                                                  abused you, those you partnered with over the years, those who were
                                                  living with the same underlying
                                                  > need for acceptance, love, forgiveness, understanding,
                                                  significance, security...were all experiencing the flesh. Each of us
                                                  has a flesh pattern...a way of thinking, doing, believing, and
                                                  behaving.
                                                  >
                                                  > What you must do to achieve freedom from this bondage is to
                                                  reprogram your mind to the TRUTH of your identity in Christ. You are
                                                  a SAINT! You are completely accepted by Christ and God. Your
                                                  identity does not come from what other people say or think about
                                                  you, nor does it come from what they do to you. Your identity comes
                                                  from what God says and thinks and BELIEVES about you. God sees you
                                                  as a SAINT. You are His precious child, whom He loves beyond
                                                  measure. Nothing you do will ever change God's love for you. He
                                                  wants for you to realize your identity in Him so He can free you
                                                  from this bondage. Your behavior will not change until your thoughts
                                                  and flesh patterns are realized and changed. This is what the Bible
                                                  means when it refers to renewing the mind to truth. (Romans
                                                  12:2) "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but
                                                  be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able
                                                  to test and approve what God's will is–his good, pleasing and
                                                  perfect will."
                                                  >
                                                  > Your emotions are not always true...but they are real. What you
                                                  are feeling, experiencing, desiring...is all a product of your way
                                                  of thinking and your flesh pattern. I recommend you read "Lifetime
                                                  Guarantee" by Bill Gillham. Also check out "Classic Christianity" by
                                                  Bob George. These two resources may not touch on these thoughts in
                                                  your mind but they will help you to reprogram your mind to truth. I
                                                  will be praying for you. Remember that although it is hard for you
                                                  to share your struggles here in the forum and elsewhere...Satan will
                                                  not have a stronghold over you as confession is a first step to
                                                  freedom. I'm not suggesting you blast your congregation with your
                                                  experiences...but finding those who love you and know you are
                                                  special, worthy, and a terrific child of God will be able to pick
                                                  you up and pray with you when your struggles are at their peak. You
                                                  may go through many ups and downs but eventually, I believe God will
                                                  help you find total freedom from these desires. I will type up a
                                                  > list of verses I want you to read each day. (I did this for
                                                  several months before my self-esteem and belief changed...it was a
                                                  necessary thing for me and although I didn't struggle with
                                                  homosexual desires, I too had an emotionally abusive childhood) I'll
                                                  try to get the verses out by this weekend. Read them aloud, looking
                                                  at yourself in the mirror...as much as possible. It will be tough
                                                  and you'll feel awkward...but after time, your mind WILL be renewed
                                                  to TRUTH. And one day, you will wake up and your desires will seem
                                                  so foreign to you because you will believe you are who God says you
                                                  are! This is how my behavior changed. This is how my detrimental
                                                  thoughts and internal depression was driven away. Now, when someone
                                                  offends me, hurts my feelings, or I feel the need to act contrary to
                                                  my identity, I read my Bible verses! "[You] are free from any charge
                                                  against [you]. Romans 8:31-34
                                                  >
                                                  > We will be praying for you.
                                                  >
                                                  > Love and prayers,
                                                  > Christa
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > theslink@J... wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > I have a very serious problem. While I am a sex addict and have
                                                  had homosexual encounters with men I am really attracted to teen age
                                                  boys. While I have never offended with under age kids I have had
                                                  problems with child pornography in the past. Thankfully the Lord has
                                                  kept me from all forms of pornography for about a year. This is a
                                                  big turn around since I used to spend hours every day looking at
                                                  porn. I feel so alone because all of the books I have found about
                                                  recovering for homosexuality deal strictly with adult attractions
                                                  and none of the members of my group are pedophiles. Can anyone
                                                  recommend a title about pedophilia?
                                                  >
                                                  > Also I have read one book about homosexual recovery. It said that
                                                  the key to recovery was to build relationships. Is recovery really
                                                  as easy as making friends? There has to be something more to this. I
                                                  was seriously abused as a child physically and emotionally (but not
                                                  sexually) by my father and grandmother. While I have forgiven them I
                                                  still think my problems are rooted in my childhood and my rejection
                                                  by my peers. I am in secular therapy but they seem to focus more on
                                                  changing my behavior than addressing underlying emotional problems.
                                                  Thats not to say I haven't made good progress. My sex drive is more
                                                  under control and I haven't had any same sex contact in a year and I
                                                  have gotten out of porn. But I am still hurting, lonely, and have
                                                  problems with lust and masturbation anywhere from once to twice a
                                                  week to once every two weeks. I really want to heal and be normal.
                                                  Can anybody offer any words of advice??
                                                  >
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                                                • Christa Tickle
                                                  Thank you for your encouragement, Jill. It has taken me a very, very long (and painful) time to understand what much of the Bible means, particularly how
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Oct 3, 2003
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                                                    Thank you for your encouragement, Jill. It has taken me a very, very long (and painful) time to understand what much of the Bible means, particularly how Jesus' death and resurrection applies to my life; thankfully, through lots of mentoring, the Lord has opened my mind to much truth and I am glad He has allowed me the privilege of sharing some of the things He has revealed to me over the years. If you want to learn more about reprogramming your mind to the truth of your identity in Christ, I strongly suggest Anabel Gillham's book "The Confident Woman." It is a masterpiece straight from God and it has proven to be a critical resource in the "reprogramming" of my own mind. Prepare to read it over and over again...it is so full of Godly wisdom and insight you will want to re-read it as soon as you finish the final chapter! Hope you have a great weekend!

                                                    Love in Him,

                                                    Christa


                                                    Jill <jdo52@...> wrote:
                                                    Hi Christa,

                                                    these are words of Life...i know you didn't write this to me, but
                                                    thanks.

                                                    Jill

                                                    --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Christa Tickle
                                                    <ctickle777@y...> wrote:
                                                    > Hi theslink. I wanted to let you know that I applaud you for
                                                    voicing this issue with the group. Although it is hard for some of
                                                    us to understand, it is my belief that sin is sin is sin. It is all
                                                    sin. Homosexuality, fornication, pedophilia...all sin. We can use
                                                    other terms to describe it...addiction, obsession, lifestyle,
                                                    preference, but in God's truth, it is sin. Bringing this out into
                                                    the open with your Christian friends is the first step to freedom
                                                    from this bondage to sin. What you are under is very much a bondage.
                                                    The dictionary defines bondage as: the state of one who is bound as
                                                    a slave or servant;a state of subjection to a force, power, or
                                                    influence. This is what you are under right now...the influence of
                                                    Satan and the bondage of the sin that originally started with your
                                                    negative experiences in childhood. I am leading up to something, so
                                                    bear with me, I think this will be fairly long.
                                                    >
                                                    > I first want to make sure you have accepted Jesus Christ as your
                                                    personal Lord and Savior...you have asked the Lord to forgive you
                                                    and cleanse you of all unrighteousness. You have accepted Christ's
                                                    death on the cross as payment for your sin...you were a sinner, born
                                                    in Adam (in Adam's lineage) and destined to die in Adam. In other
                                                    words, you, like everyone else, was born on your way to hell to live
                                                    eternally apart from God. The only way we are able to live eternally
                                                    in the presence of a holy, perfect, and righteous God is to accept
                                                    the only person who can bridge that sin gap on our behalf...Jesus!
                                                    We cannot work our way into heaven. Our BEHAVIOR does not determine
                                                    our eternal destiny...all of us were on our way to hell according to
                                                    Scripture (the Bible). God sent a gift in the form of His son...that
                                                    whosoever believes in Him (Christ Jesus) will have everlasting
                                                    life!!! Now, if you believe Jesus died for your sins...and you have
                                                    asked for forgiveness for your sins, two things have
                                                    > occurred in your life. 1. You have been forgiven and your name
                                                    has been written in the Lamb's book of Life! 2. Your Spirit that was
                                                    once dead (in Adam) has now been brought to life! Two things have
                                                    happened! The Spirit of God Himself embodies a person who has
                                                    accepted Jesus Christ! (1 Corin. 6:19; 3:16) There are only two
                                                    types of people in the world...those who are "in Adam" and those who
                                                    are "in Christ." It is the sinner versus the saint. Just as our
                                                    physical characteristics were determined at birth by our biological
                                                    parents, our spiritual characteristics were determined at birth by
                                                    our spiritual father "the prince of the power of the air" Satan
                                                    (Ephesians 2:1-2). You did not become a sinner...you were BORN a
                                                    sinner because you were born in Adam (Romans 5:11-19). Your birth
                                                    determines identity! You were born hostile and alienated from God
                                                    (Colossians 1:21), a child of wrath (Eph. 2:1,5), condemned (Romans
                                                    6:23), spiritually dead (Eph. 2:1,5), an enemy of God (Romans 5:8-
                                                    10), and a
                                                    > slave of sin (Romans 6:17).
                                                    >
                                                    > When you invited Jesus into your life, you were reborn! A NEW
                                                    BIRTH!!! (1 Peter 1:23). You were transferred out of Satan's kingdom
                                                    (Adam's lineage) and into God's kingdom (Jesus' lineage). Read
                                                    Colossians 1:13 You went from being a caterpillar to a
                                                    butterfly...and butterflies should no longer crawl around with the
                                                    worms! But that is what most of us do...although we have been
                                                    transformed into beautiful butterflies, we often still behave like
                                                    worms, hang out with worms, and continue to live the life of a worm!
                                                    You now have all of Christ's spiritual characteristics because you
                                                    are now "in Christ." (1 Corinthians 12:27; 1 Cor. 6:17; 1 Corin.
                                                    12:27) You are a member of Christ's body...you are united with the
                                                    Lord (one spirit). You are God's child (John 1:12). You are complete
                                                    in Christ. (Colossians 2:10). You are born of God, the evil one
                                                    cannot touch you. (1 John 5:18)
                                                    >
                                                    > You WERE a sinner. Now, you are a SAINT! Do you still sin? Yes,
                                                    because your body (flesh) and your Spirit are at war! You are no
                                                    longer a sinner...you are a saint who sins! There is a HUGE
                                                    difference here. Romans 7:21-23 states: "I find then the principle
                                                    that evil is present in me, the one who wishes to do good. For I
                                                    joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I [the new
                                                    creation in Christ] see a different law in the members of my body,
                                                    waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of
                                                    the law of sin which is in my members." There is a conflict with
                                                    the new creation in Christ...and the power that dwells in us. We are
                                                    not evil...the evil is the law of sin. Paul calls this war...and it
                                                    is definitely war. We are righteous, holy, and blameless before God
                                                    in Christ Jesus...but we don't always act, think, or feel that way.
                                                    This is why we have to reprogram our minds to truth. Where do the
                                                    thoughts come from? Satan! You are not waging war against
                                                    > yourself...these thoughts are coming from Satan. At the same
                                                    time, you are allowing them to invade your mind...they in turn, will
                                                    invade your body. Once we receive the thoughts and they are ours,
                                                    the sinning is a product of those thoughts. Satan knows our old ways
                                                    as he was instrumental in their programming! We can't stop him from
                                                    giving us thoughts but we do not have to receive those thoughts
                                                    because those thoughts are LIES! The traumatic experiences of your
                                                    childhood have been seared into your mind, your memory banks, and
                                                    they became part of your flesh: meeting your own needs with your own
                                                    resources. These thoughts, emotions, and behaviors that influence
                                                    your everyday existence are a direct result of your experiences.
                                                    Satan, THE DECEIVER, will give you thoughts that keep all of your
                                                    flesh in an uproar. You still consider yourself a homosexual,
                                                    pedofile, sinner, etc. You may even consider yourself unworthy of
                                                    being loved by someone heterosexual. You can overcome your past and
                                                    flesh
                                                    > patterns but it will not happen overnight. You must reprogram
                                                    your mind...your personal computer...to absolute TRUTH. How do you
                                                    do this? You have to believe God will take over this battle for you
                                                    and through you. You just have to allow Him to fight the battle. You
                                                    have to first choose by your own free will to allow Christ to fight
                                                    this battle for you. You have to give this to him every time you
                                                    embark upon a struggle, a thought, a desire, a sensation, a emotion,
                                                    a hurt, a feeling, an urge! You must set your mind to truth...God
                                                    lives in you. God's strength can enable you to make the choice to
                                                    flee the thoughts Satan presents to you on a daily basis. Satan's
                                                    goal is to deceive and destroy each of us. Every time Satan offers
                                                    you a choice...even if it is in singular, first-person format [I
                                                    want this, I want that, this urge is too hard for "me" to bear]
                                                    remember that Satan is knocking on the threshold of your mind and
                                                    thoughts. Block him out. Rebuke him out! When Satan offers us a
                                                    > choice, a thought, a temptation...God opens a door of escape. You
                                                    don't do this in your own strength. YOU CAN'T DEFEAT THIS apart from
                                                    Jesus Christ. Christ is your strength. Christ will do it FOR YOU.
                                                    How? You pray...when the thoughts come...ask Jesus to do it for
                                                    you...that you can't do it. You can't resist on your own. You pursue
                                                    the right course of action: You stop, you refuse, you turn, and you
                                                    head the other direction, all the while believing by faith that it
                                                    is His life through you, that He is your source, and that you are
                                                    drawing from the power that now lives inside you!!! I used to love
                                                    alcohol in college...I still have an occasional desire to partake
                                                    and every time the thought enters my mind, God provides a means of
                                                    escape. I decide "I need a drink." Satan introduces the thought...I
                                                    then get up to go to the kitchen. (Chance one...refuse to go to the
                                                    kitchen to look for a drink) I open the refrigerator (deliverance
                                                    opportunity #2 as I could resist opening the refrigerator in
                                                    > my search) I don't see any beer in the fridge so I then decide I
                                                    could make a quick run to the grocery store (escape three) I go get
                                                    the keys (escape 4) I get in my car (escape 5) I get to the grocery
                                                    store (escape 6) I bring the beer up to the counter to purchase it
                                                    (escape 7...I could leave the store at this point before indulging
                                                    in a drink, empty-handed, and return home with Coca-Cola instead).
                                                    Corinthians 10:13 It is a battle starting in our minds...what we do
                                                    with those initial thoughts truly has an outcome on whether or not
                                                    we choose to follow through or deny the act of sin. Oftentimes, I
                                                    will argue with myself...I could do this, but I know that is wrong.
                                                    It is a constant battle. Until we leave our earthly bodies behind,
                                                    we will experience this battle.
                                                    >
                                                    > You have a NEW identity. Your identity is now in Christ. You are
                                                    now an heir to the throne of Jesus and accepted by God, not because
                                                    of your actions, thoughts, or sin...but because of Jesus! The only
                                                    sin that will ever send a man to hell is his disbelief. The gift of
                                                    salvation (Jesus) is there...it is just there for those who choose
                                                    to accept it. You are already reconciled with God. Your behavior
                                                    does not make you who you are. Your BEHAVIOR does not change your
                                                    identity!!! (Romans 5:6, 8, 10) The old you is gone now...and Christ
                                                    has replaced the old you with His very Spirit.
                                                    >
                                                    > Behavior does not change until a person's identity changes. In
                                                    other words, our belief about ourselves determines our behavior.
                                                    Satan wants us to believe his lie that our behavior tells us what to
                                                    believe about ourselves. WRONG. Your identity does not come from
                                                    what you have done...in the past. Nor does it come from what you did
                                                    today or do tomorrow. It comes from what God has done for us.
                                                    >
                                                    > Your personal computer (brain) has been programmed over the years
                                                    of emotional and mental abuse and rejection through no fault of your
                                                    own. For whatever reasons, your parents also had some pattern of
                                                    thinking and belief system that unfortunately led to their own
                                                    mistakes. What I think the world has us do to "solve" our problems
                                                    is receive counseling. We're told to talk about our problems without
                                                    considering the simple fact that our underlying need is to be
                                                    reconciled with God. We then need to reprogram our flesh
                                                    patterns...reprogram our way of thinking to TRUTH! You have been led
                                                    to believe that you are unworthy, unlovable, undesirable,
                                                    inadequate, inferior, worthless, etc. These are some of the
                                                    patterns have formed and have been embedded in your brain
                                                    throughout your life, courtesy of Satan and his craftiness. Remember
                                                    that your parents were victims of this process too...those who
                                                    abused you, those you partnered with over the years, those who were
                                                    living with the same underlying
                                                    > need for acceptance, love, forgiveness, understanding,
                                                    significance, security...were all experiencing the flesh. Each of us
                                                    has a flesh pattern...a way of thinking, doing, believing, and
                                                    behaving.
                                                    >
                                                    > What you must do to achieve freedom from this bondage is to
                                                    reprogram your mind to the TRUTH of your identity in Christ. You are
                                                    a SAINT! You are completely accepted by Christ and God. Your
                                                    identity does not come from what other people say or think about
                                                    you, nor does it come from what they do to you. Your identity comes
                                                    from what God says and thinks and BELIEVES about you. God sees you
                                                    as a SAINT. You are His precious child, whom He loves beyond
                                                    measure. Nothing you do will ever change God's love for you. He
                                                    wants for you to realize your identity in Him so He can free you
                                                    from this bondage. Your behavior will not change until your thoughts
                                                    and flesh patterns are realized and changed. This is what the Bible
                                                    means when it refers to renewing the mind to truth. (Romans
                                                    12:2) "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but
                                                    be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able
                                                    to test and approve what God's will is�his good, pleasing and
                                                    perfect will."
                                                    >
                                                    > Your emotions are not always true...but they are real. What you
                                                    are feeling, experiencing, desiring...is all a product of your way
                                                    of thinking and your flesh pattern. I recommend you read "Lifetime
                                                    Guarantee" by Bill Gillham. Also check out "Classic Christianity" by
                                                    Bob George. These two resources may not touch on these thoughts in
                                                    your mind but they will help you to reprogram your mind to truth. I
                                                    will be praying for you. Remember that although it is hard for you
                                                    to share your struggles here in the forum and elsewhere...Satan will
                                                    not have a stronghold over you as confession is a first step to
                                                    freedom. I'm not suggesting you blast your congregation with your
                                                    experiences...but finding those who love you and know you are
                                                    special, worthy, and a terrific child of God will be able to pick
                                                    you up and pray with you when your struggles are at their peak. You
                                                    may go through many ups and downs but eventually, I believe God will
                                                    help you find total freedom from these desires. I will type up a
                                                    > list of verses I want you to read each day. (I did this for
                                                    several months before my self-esteem and belief changed...it was a
                                                    necessary thing for me and although I didn't struggle with
                                                    homosexual desires, I too had an emotionally abusive childhood) I'll
                                                    try to get the verses out by this weekend. Read them aloud, looking
                                                    at yourself in the mirror...as much as possible. It will be tough
                                                    and you'll feel awkward...but after time, your mind WILL be renewed
                                                    to TRUTH. And one day, you will wake up and your desires will seem
                                                    so foreign to you because you will believe you are who God says you
                                                    are! This is how my behavior changed. This is how my detrimental
                                                    thoughts and internal depression was driven away. Now, when someone
                                                    offends me, hurts my feelings, or I feel the need to act contrary to
                                                    my identity, I read my Bible verses! "[You] are free from any charge
                                                    against [you]. Romans 8:31-34
                                                    >
                                                    > We will be praying for you.
                                                    >
                                                    > Love and prayers,
                                                    > Christa
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > theslink@J... wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > I have a very serious problem. While I am a sex addict and have
                                                    had homosexual encounters with men I am really attracted to teen age
                                                    boys. While I have never offended with under age kids I have had
                                                    problems with child pornography in the past. Thankfully the Lord has
                                                    kept me from all forms of pornography for about a year. This is a
                                                    big turn around since I used to spend hours every day looking at
                                                    porn. I feel so alone because all of the books I have found about
                                                    recovering for homosexuality deal strictly with adult attractions
                                                    and none of the members of my group are pedophiles. Can anyone
                                                    recommend a title about pedophilia?
                                                    >
                                                    > Also I have read one book about homosexual recovery. It said that
                                                    the key to recovery was to build relationships. Is recovery really
                                                    as easy as making friends? There has to be something more to this. I
                                                    was seriously abused as a child physically and emotionally (but not
                                                    sexually) by my father and grandmother. While I have forgiven them I
                                                    still think my problems are rooted in my childhood and my rejection
                                                    by my peers. I am in secular therapy but they seem to focus more on
                                                    changing my behavior than addressing underlying emotional problems.
                                                    Thats not to say I haven't made good progress. My sex drive is more
                                                    under control and I haven't had any same sex contact in a year and I
                                                    have gotten out of porn. But I am still hurting, lonely, and have
                                                    problems with lust and masturbation anywhere from once to twice a
                                                    week to once every two weeks. I really want to heal and be normal.
                                                    Can anybody offer any words of advice??
                                                    >
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                                                  • Bridget Night
                                                    I agree that pedophilia and child abuse is horrible but the individual with this problem also needs help because someone or something messed them up too. I
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Oct 3, 2003
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                                                      I agree that pedophilia and child abuse is horrible but the individual with this problem also needs help because someone or something messed them up too. I recall thinking about the parents of the Columbine kids that did this horrible killing in the schools, and the pain they felt wondering what went wrong with their kids. There are a lot of good parents out there who are having problems with their kids today because of our society and culture and those bad influences. My husband and I would be considered goody goodies growing up. We liked obeying the rules and being good. The teachers loved us. We made good grades and participated in school activities. My husband mowed lawns at 10 and gave all the money to his parents who were out of work at one time. We look at each other sometimes and wondered what went wrong that our kids have had such problems at times. They were such good kids until they hit junior high and high school and the great need to fit in and peer pressure made them give in. We just can't judge wisely. Only God can factor in all the issues. Bridget
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      From: Michael Crumpler
                                                      To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 1:43 PM
                                                      Subject: Re: [ExGDBd] Pedophilia and some other questions


                                                      Thanks Inge!
                                                      I totally agree!
                                                      This is not a public trial, but a support group!
                                                      Our Brother has chosen to share his struggle and is seeking help, only to be slammed by Tim! What a shame!
                                                      Child molestation is an awful act! That's why we should do everything in our power to prevent perpertrators from doing it. I pray that through our love and encouragement our brother will be led away from the need and desire to be with teen boys.

                                                      Tim......"let he who thinks he stand take heed lest he fall...."

                                                      Mike
                                                      Inge Anderson <inge@...> wrote:
                                                      Tim,

                                                      Your sharing your reaction to pedophilia below came at a particularly
                                                      inappropriate juncture.

                                                      A brother in Christ shared his struggles, and you answer with *this*!!

                                                      How would you feel if you shared some of your struggles on this board, and,
                                                      instead of replying to your concerns, I wrote to tell you that I had met a
                                                      homosexual and was *so* repulsed by him!! Furthermore, what if I pointed
                                                      out that the biblical punishment for same-gender sex was stoning and
                                                      lamenting that society no longer did this.

                                                      How would that help *you*?

                                                      That's exactly what you just did to your brother on this list who made
                                                      himself vulnerable by writing about his struggle of being attracted to
                                                      young people. Before posting on a board like this, where vulnerable people
                                                      come for Christian support, it is good to pray the prayer of David in Psalm
                                                      141.3:
                                                      "Set a watch, O LORD, before my mouth; keep the door of my lips." This is
                                                      *not* a place to "let it all hang out" without considering how it will
                                                      affect a fellow struggler.

                                                      Michael's note was "right on"! Thank you, Michael for your contribution.

                                                      Blessings,
                                                      Inge Anderson

                                                      At 10:52 AM 10/1/2003 -0700, Tim Way wrote:
                                                      >Hi Guys,
                                                      >
                                                      >One thing that comes to my mind is the admonition from Jesus Christ when
                                                      >he warns about hurting one of these little ones who trust in me. He said
                                                      >that it would be better to die a violent death than that you should hurt
                                                      >one of these little one's. The penalty our society puts on child molesters
                                                      >is a period of confinement plus financial penalties then a period of
                                                      >partial freedom and ridicule with a lack of privacy. Gods law merely
                                                      >required immediate death penalty by societal stoning. I met a child
                                                      >molester some 18 years ago. I was so repulsed by him that I couldn't even
                                                      >peaceably talk to him.Before Gays were portrayed as anything but perverts
                                                      >in our society years ago most straight people were repulsed at the mere
                                                      >thought of homosexual perversion. I hope society never excepts child
                                                      >molesters as an acceptable alternative lifestyle. Tim Way

                                                      Inge Anderson <inge@...>
                                                      *********************************************************
                                                      Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
                                                      Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
                                                      *********************************************************
                                                      A bruised reed shall he not break....
                                                      Isaiah 42:3
                                                      *********************************************************


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                                                    • Tim Way
                                                      Hi Chancellor, Are you sure about that, I mean ethnicity came about after the flood when men went to different parts of the earth according to their families
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Oct 3, 2003
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                                                        Hi Chancellor,

                                                        Are you sure about that, I mean ethnicity came about after the flood when men went to different parts of the earth according to their families and thier tongues right ? Tim Way

                                                        "Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II" <BuddyChan2@...> wrote:
                                                        Finally, something on which we agree. There is a tendency among many
                                                        Christians, however, to say that because something is not sin that it
                                                        must necessarily be consistent with God's created design. It is my
                                                        contention that every aspect of creation was damaged by that first
                                                        sin in the Garden of Eden and/or subsequent sin (different ethnic
                                                        groups, for example, came about as a result of that incident at the
                                                        tower of Babel).

                                                        --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Inge Anderson
                                                        <inge@g...> wrote:
                                                        But then none of us have characters "consistent with God's
                                                        > design in Genesis." We are *all* lost without Christ's death in our
                                                        behalf.
                                                        > That was my point. None of us have anything to boast of -- except
                                                        in the
                                                        > grace of Christ.
                                                        >
                                                        > In His grace,
                                                        > Inge



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                                                      • Inge Anderson
                                                        ... Actually, Chancellor, I thought we agreed on a *lot* of things. :) And I agree with what you write below as well. :) Blessings, Inge :) ... Inge Anderson
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Oct 3, 2003
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          At 05:09 PM 10/3/2003 +0000, Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II wrote:
                                                          >Finally, something on which we agree.

                                                          Actually, Chancellor, I thought we agreed on a *lot* of things. :) And I
                                                          agree with what you write below as well. :)

                                                          Blessings,
                                                          Inge :)

                                                          > There is a tendency among many
                                                          >Christians, however, to say that because something is not sin that it
                                                          >must necessarily be consistent with God's created design. It is my
                                                          >contention that every aspect of creation was damaged by that first
                                                          >sin in the Garden of Eden and/or subsequent sin (different ethnic
                                                          >groups, for example, came about as a result of that incident at the
                                                          >tower of Babel).
                                                          >
                                                          >--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Inge Anderson
                                                          ><inge@g...> wrote:
                                                          >But then none of us have characters "consistent with God's
                                                          > > design in Genesis." We are *all* lost without Christ's death in our
                                                          >behalf.
                                                          > > That was my point. None of us have anything to boast of -- except
                                                          >in the
                                                          > > grace of Christ.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > In His grace,
                                                          > > Inge

                                                          Inge Anderson <inge@...>
                                                          *********************************************************
                                                          Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
                                                          Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
                                                          *********************************************************
                                                          A bruised reed shall he not break....
                                                          Isaiah 42:3
                                                          *********************************************************
                                                        • Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II
                                                          It was a while after the flood. Everyone had settled in what is now Iraq. They built this tower because they wanted to get God to take notice of them. God
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Oct 4, 2003
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                                                            It was a while after the flood. Everyone had settled in what is now
                                                            Iraq. They built this tower because they wanted to get God to take
                                                            notice of them. God chose to cause them to speak different languages
                                                            and, as a consequence, they scattered. That's how the different
                                                            ethnic groups came about.

                                                            --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Tim Way <inotheway@y...>
                                                            wrote:
                                                            > Hi Chancellor,
                                                            >
                                                            > Are you sure about that, I mean ethnicity came about after the
                                                            flood when men went to different parts of the earth according to
                                                            their families and thier tongues right ? Tim Way
                                                            >
                                                            > "Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II" <BuddyChan2@m...> wrote:
                                                            > Finally, something on which we agree. There is a tendency among
                                                            many
                                                            > Christians, however, to say that because something is not sin that
                                                            it
                                                            > must necessarily be consistent with God's created design. It is my
                                                            > contention that every aspect of creation was damaged by that first
                                                            > sin in the Garden of Eden and/or subsequent sin (different ethnic
                                                            > groups, for example, came about as a result of that incident at the
                                                            > tower of Babel).
                                                            >
                                                            > --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Inge Anderson
                                                            > <inge@g...> wrote:
                                                            > But then none of us have characters "consistent with God's
                                                            > > design in Genesis." We are *all* lost without Christ's death in
                                                            our
                                                            > behalf.
                                                            > > That was my point. None of us have anything to boast of -- except
                                                            > in the
                                                            > > grace of Christ.
                                                            > >
                                                            > > In His grace,
                                                            > > Inge
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
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                                                          • Jan Hensley
                                                            God bless you my friend. Jan ... From: Tim Way To: Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 10:04 PM
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Oct 5, 2003
                                                            • 0 Attachment
                                                              God bless you my friend. Jan
                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                              From: "Tim Way" <inotheway@...>
                                                              To: <exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 10:04 PM
                                                              Subject: Re: [ExGDBd] Pedophilia


                                                              > Hi Janet,
                                                              >
                                                              > I stand reproved. Thank you sister. Tim Way
                                                              >
                                                              > Jan Hensley <saltnlight@...> wrote:
                                                              > I agree that pedophilia and child abuse is horrible I was once a survivor,
                                                              but the individual with the problem needs help not anger and made to feel
                                                              damnation here. Think back to when you first discovered a son or daughter or
                                                              spouse having SSA. Do you think that they, in Christ's eyes, were any worse
                                                              off than your child or loved one??
                                                              >
                                                              > Tim, there are times when what you have said fits but not here in the case
                                                              of someone crying out for help.
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              > Janet
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                              >
                                                              >
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