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Re: [ExGDBd] looking for answers

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  • Bridget Night
    Hello, Lahrdplay, Wow!! Do you sound exactly like my son, accept he is barely 21 and still very ignorant about the gay lifestyle.!! Thank you so much for
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 6, 2003
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      Hello, Lahrdplay,

      Wow!!

      Do you sound exactly like my son, accept he is barely 21 and still very ignorant about the gay lifestyle.!! Thank you so much for posting because I would like to forward your post to my son if I may? My son used to believe in God and was my most spiritual child but when God did not heal him right away of his same-sex attraction he lost faith. Then he left our church because they do not accept homosexuality. Now he thinks God is like Santa Claus; something you were taught as a child, and then find out it's not true. Well, unless a person has a correct understanding of God, how He works, and the purpose of life, it is very easy to loose faith and become agnostic or atheistic. I know because I have left God twice in my life, and He brought me back to Him. But, I will not preach God to you as I have stopped doing that to my son as well. All, I can do is share my story with you. Go to the ExGDBd site and click on links and then on member links for Bridget Night if you would like to see the preview of my story. It is a very unusual story, as I communicated for over a year with an atheistic gay Danish youth who befriended my son. Would love your opinion.

      Bridget

      P.S. I just got something from Regina Griggs, head of PFOX that relates to this discussion so I will cut and paste it here:

      There's HOPE for the World
      Homosexuals Opposed to Pride Extremism
      hopenow@...
      August 2003

      If you don't swing with the Sodomites, you're nowheresville on the A-list
      Camille Paglia


      Last weekend's attack on the Gay Pride Parade in Stockholm Sweden and the infantile
      spray painting of 'shame' on the sidewalk in front of St Michael's Cathedral is a sad
      warning of how ugly and vicious the battle between the so-called right and left could
      become. My activist brothers and sisters in concert with the judicial elite, the cowed
      politicians and the liberal media have seriously jeopardized decades of work to ensure
      tolerance and privacy, because of their greedy, relentless pursuit of lifestyle affirmation.

      It's as easy as eating an ice-cream cone to deconstuct same-sex marriage without
      the slightest reference to Scripture or church doctrine. Although I hate dogma in
      in any form - be it religious or gay activist - I recognize the universal truth that no
      major world religion has ever endorsed homosexuality which can be openly practised
      only in peaceful, affluent and cosmopolitan times. Even in classical antiquity,
      homosexuality was controversial, and despite the exaggerated claims of todays
      partisans, there was no place or period where it flourished in complete freedom
      from moral opprobrium.

      Instead of excoriating the Vatican and misquoting Bishop Henry, the 'choice and
      diversity' crowd would do well to read the gay press, which normally tows the
      activist party-line, but which has long been replete with articles, editorials and
      letters lambasting and lampooning the whole idea of same-sex nuptials. Clearly,
      a substantial majority of us neither need nor want gay marriage. Lesbian authors,
      Jane Rule and Camille Paglia, drag queen, Sky Gilbert and the late pioneer activist,
      Harry Hay are among the numerous prominent opponents of this forced parity.

      We neither need nor want the state in our bedrooms. We neither need nor want to
      be shackled by rules, regulations or paperwork. We've already won the same-sex
      benefits battle, so there's no longer concern over matters of pensions or estates.
      Let the straights keep marriage. We need to be liberated from the mainstream,
      homogeneous, egalitarian mindset that is destroying what is left of gay culture.

      Even the January 14, 2001 gay wedding spectacle at Toronto's Metropolitan
      Community Church, although treated as the social event of the season by a
      delirious media circus, was shunned and scoffed at by the gay community.
      Better to stay at home and clean out the fridge when your public image is so
      embarrassingly represented by such maudlin specimens of martyrdom, who
      fancy themselves as pioneers and revolutionaries, but who simply reinforce
      reinforce every prejudice against us.

      As an openly gay male, I have no problem conceding that heterosexuality
      is and will always be the great human norm. But I have no time for the
      modern, feel-good, pop-culture mentality that facilely equates homosexuality
      with heterosexuality and asks no deep questions about human psychology
      beyond the the superficial liberal-vs-conservative, freedom-vs-oppression
      dichotomy. And I have even less time for the unsatiable demands and
      infantile caterwauling of my radical brothers and sisters who want to make
      the whole world their closet.

      So, I formed HOPE (Homosexuals Opposed to Pride Extremism) in 1997 to
      a) expose the lies, myths, distortions and propaganda of modern gay activism,
      b) deconstruct the oppression and victimology politics, c) give a credible voice
      to happy, successful and independent gays and lesbians who don't wake up
      every day finding "hate, bigotry and discrimination" under the bed and who
      don't go running to the courts, the governments or the human rights commissions
      for a lifetime of therapeutic preferences. Over the past six years, my supposedly
      controversial stance has brought me considerable media attention, writing articles
      or being written about in both the gay and mainstream press, and participating in
      radio and television interviews and debates. In April of 2001, I was asked to
      prepare an affidavit on behalf of the respondents in the same-sex marriage cases
      being heard in the Supreme Court of British Columbia.

      Most Canadians believe that gays and lesbians should be able to pursue any
      brand of consensual sex as we see fit and form whatever relationships that
      make us happy. But I'm sick and tired of the activist mantra that my dignity
      and my relationships are devalued because the state will not codify same-sex
      marriage. And I'm not so insecure and so selfish to demand that marriage be
      redefined for everyone else. Marriage is not an arbitrary convention and is not
      meant to change with the times. We're not talking about music, fashion or art.
      We're talking about an institution whose 4 prohibitions - you can only marry
      one person at a time, only someone of the opposite sex, never someone beneath
      a certain age, and not a close blood relative - have been grounded in morality
      and in law for millennia (the highlighting etc is mine - RJ). Humankind yearns for these stabilizing factors in our
      kaleidoscopic world and if we abandon these standards, then everything becomes
      legal and everything becomes moral. If gay marriages are permitted (a prerogrative
      of the most decadent Roman emperors), why not polygamy? Why not brother and
      sister or parent and child?

      One does not have to be a "fanatical, right-wing, religious fundamentalist" to
      oppose gay marriage. It is significant to note that an interfaith coalition of Roman
      Catholics, Sikhs, Muslims, Anglicans and Evangelicals intervened in the court
      challenges to the Marriage Act and continue to fight this nihilism to the bitter end.
      That such a diverse body of religious organizations, all of whom have numerous
      disagreements in matters of doctrine, theology and practice, are unanimous in
      their defence of marriage, clearly shows a universal pressing concern for this issue.
      So gays need to stop bitching about sincere Christians, Jews and Muslims who
      are merely exercising their constitutional rights to free speech about homosexuality
      and whose vast philosophical perspective easily triumphs over the provincialism
      and amorality of the gay world. Indeed, their position is far more credible and
      honest than the tortuous casuistry of self-interested clerics who take the path of
      least resistance by creating their own church, tailor-made to affirm their Rainbow
      philosophy.

      Gay activists and their ever-willing accomplices in the media, relentlessly drive
      through our skulls that homosexuality is "not a choice", because no one would
      choose to be gay in a homophobic society. Firstly, there is an element of choice
      in all behavior, sexual or otherwise. Secondly, despite public fanfare and trendy
      hypotheses, there is no conclusive scientific evidence as to the biological, genetic,
      psychological and sociological influences on sexual orientation. The modern change
      in opinion concerning homosexuality, though presented as a scientific advance, is
      contradicted rather than supported by science. It is a transformation of public morals
      consistent with widespread abandonment of the Judeo-Christian ethics upon which
      our civilization is based. Though hailed as "progress", it is really a reversion to
      ancient pagan practices supported by a counter-culture restatement of gnostic moral
      relativism.

      It is well documented that long term relationships and fidelity are extremely rare
      in the gay world. From Hollywood Boy Parties to Fire Island, from Gay Pride to
      Gay Games, homosexual men are relentlessly searching for "Mecca" - even if it's
      just for a weekend. Even at the Annual Global Conference on AIDS, the nightlife
      is more noteworthy than the daytime activities. Every night the discos are packed
      with gay doctors, nurses, activists and researchers shamelessly cruising one another.
      Likewise the bathhouses do land-office business. In spite of the solemnity and
      tragedy in dealing dealing with a wasteful and fatal disease, the hedonistic,
      promiscuous, sex-carnival atmosphere never lets up.

      One of the most popular and essential resource guides for gays who travel, are
      those which reverently chronicle cruising areas for anonymous gay sex, from
      bathhouses, parks, public washrooms, rural highways to big-city bus stations.
      Anyone who, thinks that same-sex marriage will quell the gay male compulsion
      for libidinal excess, is either naive or disingenuous. Recently, Xtra, Canada's
      gay and lesbian bi-weekly, ran a feature entitled "How to Stay Married and Still
      Be a Slut", which, at first glance, seems satirical, but which is actually a serious
      guideline on how to have one's cake and eat it too. Another article in the same
      journal, spoke of the perverse irony that the right to marry is being fought by
      those who are already hitched, their youth gone, their kids growing or grown,
      and their parents shrinking before their very eyes.

      In its affidavit in support of same-sex marriage, EGALE (Equality for Gays and
      Lesbians Everywhere) contends that if gays and lesbians are excluded from
      that which is available to the rest of society, we will always remain marginalized
      and stigmatized. Rubbish! Gay activism has always been naive in its beligerent
      confidence that "homophobia" will disappear with massive and forced education
      of the benighted. But such relentless indoctrination cannot be achieved without
      fascist obliteration of all freedoms. And since freedom always trumps diversity
      and tolerance, you can rest assured that any perceived threat to freedom will result
      in a societal backlash which will guarantee oppression of all homosexuals.
      Gay males, especially, are forever on the edge of a precipice, because in a
      political cataclysm we are always the first to be purged.

      Another spurious contention from EGALE is that "gender purity" is tantamount
      to "racial purity". This is not only intellectually dishonest, but is insultingly
      disrespectful to Blacks, Jews and other ethnic minorities. Lesbian author and
      professor of humanities, Camille Paglia, succinctly states: " The gay activist
      establishment has been stupid and narrow in the way it has conducted its civil
      rights campaign. There is no gay leader remotely near the stature of Martin
      Luther King, because black activism has drawn on the profound spiritual
      traditions of the church, to which gay political rhetoric is childishly hostile.
      The parallel claimed by gay leaders between blacks and gays as oppressed
      minorities has always been questionable, and many African-Americans
      have angrily rejected it. Indeed, discrimination against skin color is not
      wholly comparable to the complicated resistance of virtually all societies
      to open homosexuality, which involves thorny questions of morality and
      psychology. Most gays can 'pass' whenever they want - an option available
      to few blacks." (Vamps and Tramps, 1994)

      Whatever society teaches or doesn't teach about homosexuality, no gay or
      lesbian, surrounded overwhelmingly by heterosexuals, will feel at home in
      his or her sexual and emotional world, even in the most tolerant of cultures.
      At a young age we learn the rituals of deceit, impersonation and appearance,
      and anyone who believes political. social or even cultural revolution will
      change this fundamentally is denying reality. The unhappy truth is that male
      homosexuality will never be fully accepted by the heterosexual majority, who
      are obeying the dictates not of "bigoted" society or religion, but of procreative
      nature. Yet this desperation deepens our artistic insight and allows us to create
      civilization. Undoubtedly, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, Tchaikovsky,
      Somerset Maugham, Gore Vidal, et al experienced hardship and alienation.
      But look what they gave to the world. Look how they advanced the cultural
      heritage. They were too cultivated, creative and cosmopolitan to be concerned
      with the trivialities of sexual pride, queer studies or diversity. One of them
      glorified God and Church by painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, despite
      the Vatican's unequivocal denunciation of homosexuality.

      By far, the scariest and most insidious corollary to same-sex marriage is
      same-sex adoption (already legal in some jurisdictions). This is blatant
      child abuse. Children need a biological mother and father. We know this
      is not always possible, even in the context of opposite-sex marriage, but
      we don't solve the problem or alleviate the inconsistency by augmenting it.
      Children are not meant to be guinea pigs for social engineering experiments.
      Self-interested partisans will manufacture statistics to support ther specious
      claims that children of gay marriages fare as well as those of traditional
      families. But the phenomenon of same-sex parenting doesn't have the
      longevity needed for such conclusive evidence, whereas the experience of
      single-parent families has not always, but often shown detriment to the
      development of the offspring.

      When society allows men to marry men and women to marry women, it
      perpetuates the alienation of the sexes and contributes to the ever-increasing
      crisis in the sex roles. Before Stonewall, gays and lesbians mixed socially
      and in the clubs with a pretty good understanding of and appreciation for
      one another. But as gay liberation took hold, gay males, feeling ebullient
      from their new-found freedom, descended into a bacchanalia of narcissism
      and promiscuity. Segregated bars, orgy rooms and bathhouses exploded in
      number and luxury. Strange parasitic diseases soon began appearing, and by
      1981, a "gay cancer" was identified as AIDS. We must honestly admit that
      even gay men's attempt to create a world without women failed catastrophically.

      Unfortunately, most people's sense of history begins the day they were born,
      which means all that precedes is outmoded and irrelevant and all that follows is
      enlightened and progressive. However, we cannot and must not ignore the
      lessons of history and natural law. Again and again, it has been shown that
      whenever humankind fails to protect time-honored political, moral and social
      institutions, whenever humankind attempts to embrace pride as a virtue and
      mainstream behavior that contravenes natural law, and whenever humankind
      becomes arrogant, autonomous, egalitarian, nihilistic and foolish, civilization
      fails - always and without exception. So, here we are repeating the cycle and
      getting ready to crash and burn one more time.


      John McKellar
      President, HOPE
      Toronto, ON, Canada




      ----- Original Message -----
      From: lahrdplay
      To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:11 AM
      Subject: [ExGDBd] looking for answers


      Hi,
      I came here to see for my self what this is all about. Since I
      embraced my homosexulaity, I was less happy then I was before. I
      agree most gay perople I have met have been more screwed up then I
      could have ever imagined. I even was a bartender and saw the
      hoplessness of it all and said that not me, but underneath thinking
      how far from that was I. If I could choose, I would surly choose to
      not be gay, not be hated, opressed, left alone in my old age like
      all the other older gay people I have met. Being gay is all about
      youth and when that is gone there seems to be nothing left.

      On the other hand I am less happy about all the god references, I
      dont feel that that concept is real either.

      No on can change unless they truly want to and so I sit on the fence
      deciding my fate. I am thinking this may all be just another crutch,
      some way of saying well at least I tried.

      I have all the clasic symptoms, I was sexualy active at a very young
      age with both men and woman. I dont really fit into the gay sceen
      any more then I could go to a straight place and fit in.


      Don't pounce me for embracing my gayness, if I did choose it it
      would have been on a very subconcious level. I am not loooking for
      god to save me he should have bigger issues then me if he existed.

      But I would like to hear about what changed you, and not because
      some message from gooooood, if god came to me in the middle of the
      night I would move out, the place is haunted.

      Thanks






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