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  • p_csilen
    I saw my doctor today, and I got back the results of my blood work. Except for my triglicerides being a little too high everything looked pretty good. There
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 31, 2007
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      I saw my doctor today, and I got back the results of my blood work.
      Except for my triglicerides being a little too high everything looked
      pretty good. There was one result that stood out. My testosterone
      levels were excedingly low. My doctor said that this might or might
      not be a result of my malfunctioning pancrius, but it has a lot to do
      with my inability to lose weight. So, she gave me a testosterone
      shot. I asked my doctor if I could have had low testosterone levels
      all of my life. She said yes. I also told my doctor that I had been a
      part of the gay live for twenty years, and asked if this could be a
      contributing factor? She told me that there are different schools of
      thought on this matter, but it is certainly a possibility. My doctor
      was very impressed over the fact that I had left the life, and it
      turned out that she was a Christian too. We discussed the situation
      in great length. She told me that The Lord has forgiven and forgotten
      the sins, and its time that I do the same. She's right. That is
      easier said than done when I can't be out in public or watch TV
      without finding myself cruising.

      But I wonder. Could there be any credence to the hormone level
      theory, or is it what I have been told all my Christian life. "This
      is God's judgement against Him. Therefore I am getting my just
      deserts!"

      I have come to a place in life where I have had to accept that I will
      always be attracted to males, and this is not going to go away. I
      have even come to the point where in my prayers I have thanked The
      Lord for allowing this to happen, and to thank Him for His
      forgivness. It is still a struggle. I would welcome your feedback.
      Pardon my bad spelling. I never went to medical school. God bless you.
    • Nieuwleven
      Dear brother, Thanks for sharing. Actually, nobody knows why homosexuality develops in some people. Trying to find a simplistic answer would do more harm than
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 2, 2008
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        Dear brother,

        Thanks for sharing. Actually, nobody knows why homosexuality develops
        in some people. Trying to find a simplistic answer would do more harm
        than good. Probably hormones play a role, but there are plenty of
        other factors behind.

        Welcome to the team! I've also made peace with the idea that this
        process of healing might be lifelong! I don't see healing as having
        heterosexual lust, but as becoming closer to Jesus and to the one he
        created in me.

        Lots of love in Him,

        Armand

        --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "p_csilen" <p_csilen@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I saw my doctor today, and I got back the results of my blood work.
        > Except for my triglicerides being a little too high everything looked
        > pretty good. There was one result that stood out. My testosterone
        > levels were excedingly low. My doctor said that this might or might
        > not be a result of my malfunctioning pancrius, but it has a lot to do
        > with my inability to lose weight. So, she gave me a testosterone
        > shot. I asked my doctor if I could have had low testosterone levels
        > all of my life. She said yes. I also told my doctor that I had been a
        > part of the gay live for twenty years, and asked if this could be a
        > contributing factor? She told me that there are different schools of
        > thought on this matter, but it is certainly a possibility. My doctor
        > was very impressed over the fact that I had left the life, and it
        > turned out that she was a Christian too. We discussed the situation
        > in great length. She told me that The Lord has forgiven and forgotten
        > the sins, and its time that I do the same. She's right. That is
        > easier said than done when I can't be out in public or watch TV
        > without finding myself cruising.
        >
        > But I wonder. Could there be any credence to the hormone level
        > theory, or is it what I have been told all my Christian life. "This
        > is God's judgement against Him. Therefore I am getting my just
        > deserts!"
        >
        > I have come to a place in life where I have had to accept that I will
        > always be attracted to males, and this is not going to go away. I
        > have even come to the point where in my prayers I have thanked The
        > Lord for allowing this to happen, and to thank Him for His
        > forgivness. It is still a struggle. I would welcome your feedback.
        > Pardon my bad spelling. I never went to medical school. God bless you.
        >
      • friendofnsf
        Dear brother, praise God for your salvation! I am female and have a disorder (PCOS) that is frequently associated with higher than normal testosterone levels
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 2, 2008
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          Dear brother, praise God for your salvation!

          I am female and have a disorder (PCOS) that is frequently associated
          with higher than normal testosterone levels in women or female
          hormones being out of wack. I have never struggled with SSA but then
          again, my doctor doesn't see the point of testing my hormones either,
          so I can't say for sure what they are.

          There are many contributing factors, and I suggest you do some reading
          on this subject if you really want to get to the root causes. But
          meanwhile, be encouraged! God loves you and is not punishing you in
          any way. I am not sure why things are not easier for you, except that
          all of us grow and learn from our struggles!

          Blessings,

          Di
        • Thomas Morey
          Dear p_csilen, A great book, called Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth by Dr. Jeffrey Satinover gives an accurate overview of the research concerning
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 4, 2008
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            Dear p_csilen,

            A great book, called "Homosexuality and the Politics
            of Truth" by Dr. Jeffrey Satinover gives an accurate
            overview of the research concerning the possibility of
            any hormonal influences on same sex attractions (SSA)
            in one of its chapters in the causation section of the
            book.

            In addition, after having done a term paper in one of
            my neuropsych classes from the early 90's on this very
            issue, I can reassure you that if there is any DIRECT
            influences on just homosexual behavior, in itself, and
            not significantly altering the direction of one's
            sexual behavior, it is due rather to having too much
            testosterone, and/or its derivative, alpha-tocopherol,
            rather than not enough. This is found to be true not
            only among animals, but also those who take
            performance-enhancing steroidal drugs! Actually, it is
            more indicative of just a heightened frequency of
            aggressive and sexual behavior, and not just
            homosexual acts.

            As for any possible INDIRECT, or predispositional
            influences, there is particular theoretical aspects of
            the Geschwind theory, among others, that only during
            the later prenatal stages of growth, hormonalization
            of cortex development of the brain does indeed have a
            bearing on personality and specializaton of abilities,
            which may lead then to homosexual inclinational
            development when it is concomitant with the necessary
            and classic psychosexual influences from one's
            familial environment. It is believed that more
            testosteronal-like neurochemical effects lead to more
            specialization of the brain (i.e., in general,
            sociobiologists state that males are believed to be
            more likely to have less development in verbal regions
            of the cortex and more in spatial relations than
            females). In general, females are believed by them to
            have more of an integrated, or neurochemically
            consolidated, cortical system. And, studies concerning
            specialization of abilities and tasks do seem to
            indicate that self-identified SSA'd adult males are
            much more like their female counterparts, rather than
            other males. But, other specialists in the field say
            that this may be because of post-natal, acquired
            behavior, even in our adulthood, since our behaviors
            do indeed continually have significant effect on
            various aspects of the brain. Plus, there was no
            significant differences found between self-identified
            SSA's women and other women, nor significant
            similarities between SSA'd women and men in general.

            It does appear that it is widely accepted by those in
            neuropsychology that particular hormonal effects on
            the brain rather have alot more to do with
            hermaphroditism and other biologically based sexual
            disorders, and not as much on psychosexual
            development.

            I hope this helps.

            Blessings,

            Tom


            --- p_csilen <p_csilen@...> wrote:

            > I saw my doctor today, and I got back the results of
            > my blood work.
            > Except for my triglicerides being a little too high
            > everything looked
            > pretty good. There was one result that stood out. My
            > testosterone
            > levels were excedingly low. My doctor said that this
            > might or might
            > not be a result of my malfunctioning pancrius, but
            > it has a lot to do
            > with my inability to lose weight. So, she gave me a
            > testosterone
            > shot. I asked my doctor if I could have had low
            > testosterone levels
            > all of my life. She said yes. I also told my doctor
            > that I had been a
            > part of the gay live for twenty years, and asked if
            > this could be a
            > contributing factor? She told me that there are
            > different schools of
            > thought on this matter, but it is certainly a
            > possibility. My doctor
            > was very impressed over the fact that I had left the
            > life, and it
            > turned out that she was a Christian too. We
            > discussed the situation
            > in great length. She told me that The Lord has
            > forgiven and forgotten
            > the sins, and its time that I do the same. She's
            > right. That is
            > easier said than done when I can't be out in public
            > or watch TV
            > without finding myself cruising.
            >
            > But I wonder. Could there be any credence to the
            > hormone level
            > theory, or is it what I have been told all my
            > Christian life. "This
            > is God's judgement against Him. Therefore I am
            > getting my just
            > deserts!"
            >
            > I have come to a place in life where I have had to
            > accept that I will
            > always be attracted to males, and this is not going
            > to go away. I
            > have even come to the point where in my prayers I
            > have thanked The
            > Lord for allowing this to happen, and to thank Him
            > for His
            > forgivness. It is still a struggle. I would welcome
            > your feedback.
            > Pardon my bad spelling. I never went to medical
            > school. God bless you.
            >
            >




            ____________________________________________________________________________________
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          • ctickle777
            Hey Tom, Quick question for you - did this research suggest that elevated testosterone (which may be the result of too much Vitamin E) actually leads to
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 6, 2008
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              Hey Tom,

              Quick question for you - did this research suggest that elevated
              testosterone (which may be the result of too much Vitamin E)
              actually leads to aggressive sexual tendencies? I just wanted to
              make sure I understand.

              This book sounds really interesting. I also have another question
              that I wanted to address since we're on this topic. I know a handful
              of people (all males) who have SSA. All of them expressed to me that
              they were teased and labeled "f**" or another similar term either
              during latent adolescence or sometime during college, when
              their "manhood" is really blossoming. Could the environmental labels
              also affect one's hormones, or even bring about one's "acceptance"
              of his/her homosexuality? I just find it really odd that all of
              these men were teased in the same way and prior to this experience,
              all four of them say they were attracted to both females and males
              but that the "name-calling" in part led them to believe that they
              must be "gay" since it appeared so obvious to everyone. Is there any
              validity to this? I'm just stumped b/c I find this to be a very
              interesting commonality.

              Thanks,
              Christa

              --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Morey
              <moreytom@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear p_csilen,
              >
              > A great book, called "Homosexuality and the Politics
              > of Truth" by Dr. Jeffrey Satinover gives an accurate
              > overview of the research concerning the possibility of
              > any hormonal influences on same sex attractions (SSA)
              > in one of its chapters in the causation section of the
              > book.
              >
              > In addition, after having done a term paper in one of
              > my neuropsych classes from the early 90's on this very
              > issue, I can reassure you that if there is any DIRECT
              > influences on just homosexual behavior, in itself, and
              > not significantly altering the direction of one's
              > sexual behavior, it is due rather to having too much
              > testosterone, and/or its derivative, alpha-tocopherol,
              > rather than not enough. This is found to be true not
              > only among animals, but also those who take
              > performance-enhancing steroidal drugs! Actually, it is
              > more indicative of just a heightened frequency of
              > aggressive and sexual behavior, and not just
              > homosexual acts.
              >
              > As for any possible INDIRECT, or predispositional
              > influences, there is particular theoretical aspects of
              > the Geschwind theory, among others, that only during
              > the later prenatal stages of growth, hormonalization
              > of cortex development of the brain does indeed have a
              > bearing on personality and specializaton of abilities,
              > which may lead then to homosexual inclinational
              > development when it is concomitant with the necessary
              > and classic psychosexual influences from one's
              > familial environment. It is believed that more
              > testosteronal-like neurochemical effects lead to more
              > specialization of the brain (i.e., in general,
              > sociobiologists state that males are believed to be
              > more likely to have less development in verbal regions
              > of the cortex and more in spatial relations than
              > females). In general, females are believed by them to
              > have more of an integrated, or neurochemically
              > consolidated, cortical system. And, studies concerning
              > specialization of abilities and tasks do seem to
              > indicate that self-identified SSA'd adult males are
              > much more like their female counterparts, rather than
              > other males. But, other specialists in the field say
              > that this may be because of post-natal, acquired
              > behavior, even in our adulthood, since our behaviors
              > do indeed continually have significant effect on
              > various aspects of the brain. Plus, there was no
              > significant differences found between self-identified
              > SSA's women and other women, nor significant
              > similarities between SSA'd women and men in general.
              >
              > It does appear that it is widely accepted by those in
              > neuropsychology that particular hormonal effects on
              > the brain rather have alot more to do with
              > hermaphroditism and other biologically based sexual
              > disorders, and not as much on psychosexual
              > development.
              >
              > I hope this helps.
              >
              > Blessings,
              >
              > Tom
              >
              >
              > --- p_csilen <p_csilen@...> wrote:
              >
              > > I saw my doctor today, and I got back the results of
              > > my blood work.
              > > Except for my triglicerides being a little too high
              > > everything looked
              > > pretty good. There was one result that stood out. My
              > > testosterone
              > > levels were excedingly low. My doctor said that this
              > > might or might
              > > not be a result of my malfunctioning pancrius, but
              > > it has a lot to do
              > > with my inability to lose weight. So, she gave me a
              > > testosterone
              > > shot. I asked my doctor if I could have had low
              > > testosterone levels
              > > all of my life. She said yes. I also told my doctor
              > > that I had been a
              > > part of the gay live for twenty years, and asked if
              > > this could be a
              > > contributing factor? She told me that there are
              > > different schools of
              > > thought on this matter, but it is certainly a
              > > possibility. My doctor
              > > was very impressed over the fact that I had left the
              > > life, and it
              > > turned out that she was a Christian too. We
              > > discussed the situation
              > > in great length. She told me that The Lord has
              > > forgiven and forgotten
              > > the sins, and its time that I do the same. She's
              > > right. That is
              > > easier said than done when I can't be out in public
              > > or watch TV
              > > without finding myself cruising.
              > >
              > > But I wonder. Could there be any credence to the
              > > hormone level
              > > theory, or is it what I have been told all my
              > > Christian life. "This
              > > is God's judgement against Him. Therefore I am
              > > getting my just
              > > deserts!"
              > >
              > > I have come to a place in life where I have had to
              > > accept that I will
              > > always be attracted to males, and this is not going
              > > to go away. I
              > > have even come to the point where in my prayers I
              > > have thanked The
              > > Lord for allowing this to happen, and to thank Him
              > > for His
              > > forgivness. It is still a struggle. I would welcome
              > > your feedback.
              > > Pardon my bad spelling. I never went to medical
              > > school. God bless you.
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              _____________________________________________________________________
              _______________
              > Be a better friend, newshound, and
              > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
              http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
              >
            • ctickle777
              Hi. I just had to respond to something that you wrote. You said that you had been told throughout life that, This [the results of your blood work] is God s
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 6, 2008
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                Hi. I just had to respond to something that you wrote. You said that
                you had been told throughout life that,

                "This [the results of your blood work] is God's judgement against
                [me]. Therefore I am getting my just deserts!"

                How many times we hear from pastors, clergy, and even mis-guided
                brothers and sisters in Christ that our behavior will lead God to
                condemn us - or inflict harm on us as judgment for our sins!! I,
                too, heard some of this growing up - not from my parents, but from
                pastors and other people in church. I heard, "Sinners go straight to
                hell so you best stop sinning or you'll join them!!" It was only
                later on that I finally learned the truth: We're ALL sinners so I
                guess we're all doomed to hell!! lol. ; ) Anyway, I struggle with
                guilt, too, but guilt does not come from God. It comes from Satan,
                who steals the joy of Christians by convincing them (through their
                thoughts) that their sin defines who they are and precedes the
                unfortunate events that will inevitably plague their futures.

                I allow guilt to invade my mind and it is difficult to ignore
                sometimes, but those who are in Christ are "no longer condemned" by
                God. They are righteous because of what Christ did for them.
                Sometimes I wonder why God has blessed me so much and I feel guilty
                for experiencing the desires of my heart. I'll sometimes think to
                myself, "This just can't be - why on earth would God bless me?! I
                totally don't deserve this!" The guilt of my imperfected being
                plagues my mind and I begin to doubt God's presence in my life until
                I realize that no, I don't deserve to be reconciled to God, or to
                receive His blessings, but Christ does deserve these things and I am
                in Christ! Then, I thank God and renounce the false condemnation and
                guilt. Anyway, I just wanted to share my thoughts b/c I have
                struggled with similar feelings lately as well. : ) Although many of
                our feelings are not factual, they still "feel" real to us, don't
                they?

                Blessings,
                Christa

                --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "p_csilen"
                <p_csilen@...> wrote:
                >
                > I saw my doctor today, and I got back the results of my blood
                work.
                > Except for my triglicerides being a little too high everything
                looked
                > pretty good. There was one result that stood out. My testosterone
                > levels were excedingly low. My doctor said that this might or
                might
                > not be a result of my malfunctioning pancrius, but it has a lot to
                do
                > with my inability to lose weight. So, she gave me a testosterone
                > shot. I asked my doctor if I could have had low testosterone
                levels
                > all of my life. She said yes. I also told my doctor that I had
                been a
                > part of the gay live for twenty years, and asked if this could be
                a
                > contributing factor? She told me that there are different schools
                of
                > thought on this matter, but it is certainly a possibility. My
                doctor
                > was very impressed over the fact that I had left the life, and it
                > turned out that she was a Christian too. We discussed the
                situation
                > in great length. She told me that The Lord has forgiven and
                forgotten
                > the sins, and its time that I do the same. She's right. That is
                > easier said than done when I can't be out in public or watch TV
                > without finding myself cruising.
                >
                > But I wonder. Could there be any credence to the hormone level
                > theory, or is it what I have been told all my Christian
                life. "This
                > is God's judgement against Him. Therefore I am getting my just
                > deserts!"
                >
                > I have come to a place in life where I have had to accept that I
                will
                > always be attracted to males, and this is not going to go away. I
                > have even come to the point where in my prayers I have thanked The
                > Lord for allowing this to happen, and to thank Him for His
                > forgivness. It is still a struggle. I would welcome your feedback.
                > Pardon my bad spelling. I never went to medical school. God bless
                you.
                >
              • Paul Silen
                Its funny that you should post this today. I just had dinner tonight with a Mormon friend. And as usual we bantered, faith vs works. You know the rest. I
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 6, 2008
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                  Its funny that you should post this today. I just had dinner tonight with a Mormon friend. And as usual we bantered, "faith vs works.' You know the rest. I finally laid the discussion to rest with this comment, "The difference between the way that you believe and the way that I do is this: My beliefs are based on grace and faith. Your beliefs are based on fear and shame."

                  He told me that he couldn't argue with me there.

                  ctickle777 <ctickle777@...> wrote:
                  Hi. I just had to respond to something that you wrote. You said that
                  you had been told throughout life that,

                  "This [the results of your blood work] is God's judgement against
                  [me]. Therefore I am getting my just deserts!"

                  How many times we hear from pastors, clergy, and even mis-guided
                  brothers and sisters in Christ that our behavior will lead God to
                  condemn us - or inflict harm on us as judgment for our sins!! I,
                  too, heard some of this growing up - not from my parents, but from
                  pastors and other people in church. I heard, "Sinners go straight to
                  hell so you best stop sinning or you'll join them!!" It was only
                  later on that I finally learned the truth: We're ALL sinners so I
                  guess we're all doomed to hell!! lol. ; ) Anyway, I struggle with
                  guilt, too, but guilt does not come from God. It comes from Satan,
                  who steals the joy of Christians by convincing them (through their
                  thoughts) that their sin defines who they are and precedes the
                  unfortunate events that will inevitably plague their futures.

                  I allow guilt to invade my mind and it is difficult to ignore
                  sometimes, but those who are in Christ are "no longer condemned" by
                  God. They are righteous because of what Christ did for them.
                  Sometimes I wonder why God has blessed me so much and I feel guilty
                  for experiencing the desires of my heart. I'll sometimes think to
                  myself, "This just can't be - why on earth would God bless me?! I
                  totally don't deserve this!" The guilt of my imperfected being
                  plagues my mind and I begin to doubt God's presence in my life until
                  I realize that no, I don't deserve to be reconciled to God, or to
                  receive His blessings, but Christ does deserve these things and I am
                  in Christ! Then, I thank God and renounce the false condemnation and
                  guilt. Anyway, I just wanted to share my thoughts b/c I have
                  struggled with similar feelings lately as well. : ) Although many of
                  our feelings are not factual, they still "feel" real to us, don't
                  they?

                  Blessings,
                  Christa

                  --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "p_csilen"
                  <p_csilen@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I saw my doctor today, and I got back the results of my blood
                  work.
                  > Except for my triglicerides being a little too high everything
                  looked
                  > pretty good. There was one result that stood out. My testosterone
                  > levels were excedingly low. My doctor said that this might or
                  might
                  > not be a result of my malfunctioning pancrius, but it has a lot to
                  do
                  > with my inability to lose weight. So, she gave me a testosterone
                  > shot. I asked my doctor if I could have had low testosterone
                  levels
                  > all of my life. She said yes. I also told my doctor that I had
                  been a
                  > part of the gay live for twenty years, and asked if this could be
                  a
                  > contributing factor? She told me that there are different schools
                  of
                  > thought on this matter, but it is certainly a possibility. My
                  doctor
                  > was very impressed over the fact that I had left the life, and it
                  > turned out that she was a Christian too. We discussed the
                  situation
                  > in great length. She told me that The Lord has forgiven and
                  forgotten
                  > the sins, and its time that I do the same. She's right. That is
                  > easier said than done when I can't be out in public or watch TV
                  > without finding myself cruising.
                  >
                  > But I wonder. Could there be any credence to the hormone level
                  > theory, or is it what I have been told all my Christian
                  life. "This
                  > is God's judgement against Him. Therefore I am getting my just
                  > deserts!"
                  >
                  > I have come to a place in life where I have had to accept that I
                  will
                  > always be attracted to males, and this is not going to go away. I
                  > have even come to the point where in my prayers I have thanked The
                  > Lord for allowing this to happen, and to thank Him for His
                  > forgivness. It is still a struggle. I would welcome your feedback.
                  > Pardon my bad spelling. I never went to medical school. God bless
                  you.
                  >






                  ---------------------------------
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Thomas Morey
                  Oh, yes, Christa. It is sadly very true. Whatever the accuser can get a hold of to take us off track, so-to-speak, from our natural psychosexual development,
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 7, 2008
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                    Oh, yes, Christa. It is sadly very true.

                    Whatever the accuser can get a hold of to take us off
                    track, so-to-speak, from our natural psychosexual
                    development, the better to obtain the dark objectives
                    that he has for our lives. I too have heard many
                    stories about schoolyard name calling throughout my
                    years as a significant factor of MOST of those who had
                    eventually accepted being and self-identify as gay. I
                    just wasn't one of them (this goes for sexual abuse as
                    well), since apparently I "fit in" enough to avoid
                    such direct name calling, despite having been
                    effeminate in my late childhood and early adolescence.
                    I'm sure many of my peers did use derogatory labels
                    such as "F-G", when having referred to me, but I never
                    was directly confronted by them with such language.
                    And, yes, I was sexually propositioned by many male
                    peers, as well as those older (btw, all these males
                    now are "straight" and married) at this age too. But,
                    I never consented, nor propositioned anyone, nor was
                    forced to participate! Was this due to me being taller
                    than most male peers my age at the time, and being
                    athletically inclined and active? I just don't know.

                    As for the Vitamin E, since a major ingredient in the
                    gel caps one takes is alpha-tocopherol, that just
                    makes good sense what you have said about its
                    connection with increased aggressiveness and sexual
                    behavior. But, I just don't know concerning any
                    research on the matter. I can say that personally that
                    seems to be the case, because in my early adolescence,
                    before I got saved, I used to take gobs of Vitamin E
                    pills daily in order to try to get rid of my
                    effeminate behavior, but it just made me more horny,
                    and hyper-aggressive with siblings and on the
                    basketball court.

                    I'll submit a post here later today about my personal
                    psychosexual "derailment" experience which I just
                    posted recently on Ex-Gay International's discussion
                    group, after someone asked about this very thing
                    there. Also, I believe you and p_csilen were
                    discussing childhood arrested development issues
                    concerning SSA's just recently too, so I'll try to
                    address that as well in the post.

                    Btw, you've been in my prayers. I hope you are feeling
                    better, and the pain is now history!

                    Blessings,

                    Tom
                    --- ctickle777 <ctickle777@...> wrote:

                    > Hey Tom,
                    >
                    > Quick question for you - did this research suggest
                    > that elevated
                    > testosterone (which may be the result of too much
                    > Vitamin E)
                    > actually leads to aggressive sexual tendencies? I
                    > just wanted to
                    > make sure I understand.
                    >
                    > This book sounds really interesting. I also have
                    > another question
                    > that I wanted to address since we're on this topic.
                    > I know a handful
                    > of people (all males) who have SSA. All of them
                    > expressed to me that
                    > they were teased and labeled "f**" or another
                    > similar term either
                    > during latent adolescence or sometime during
                    > college, when
                    > their "manhood" is really blossoming. Could the
                    > environmental labels
                    > also affect one's hormones, or even bring about
                    > one's "acceptance"
                    > of his/her homosexuality? I just find it really odd
                    > that all of
                    > these men were teased in the same way and prior to
                    > this experience,
                    > all four of them say they were attracted to both
                    > females and males
                    > but that the "name-calling" in part led them to
                    > believe that they
                    > must be "gay" since it appeared so obvious to
                    > everyone. Is there any
                    > validity to this? I'm just stumped b/c I find this
                    > to be a very
                    > interesting commonality.
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    > Christa
                    >
                    > --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Thomas
                    > Morey
                    > <moreytom@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Dear p_csilen,
                    > >
                    > > A great book, called "Homosexuality and the
                    > Politics
                    > > of Truth" by Dr. Jeffrey Satinover gives an
                    > accurate
                    > > overview of the research concerning the
                    > possibility of
                    > > any hormonal influences on same sex attractions
                    > (SSA)
                    > > in one of its chapters in the causation section of
                    > the
                    > > book.
                    > >
                    > > In addition, after having done a term paper in one
                    > of
                    > > my neuropsych classes from the early 90's on this
                    > very
                    > > issue, I can reassure you that if there is any
                    > DIRECT
                    > > influences on just homosexual behavior, in itself,
                    > and
                    > > not significantly altering the direction of one's
                    > > sexual behavior, it is due rather to having too
                    > much
                    > > testosterone, and/or its derivative,
                    > alpha-tocopherol,
                    > > rather than not enough. This is found to be true
                    > not
                    > > only among animals, but also those who take
                    > > performance-enhancing steroidal drugs! Actually,
                    > it is
                    > > more indicative of just a heightened frequency of
                    > > aggressive and sexual behavior, and not just
                    > > homosexual acts.
                    > >
                    > > As for any possible INDIRECT, or predispositional
                    > > influences, there is particular theoretical
                    > aspects of
                    > > the Geschwind theory, among others, that only
                    > during
                    > > the later prenatal stages of growth,
                    > hormonalization
                    > > of cortex development of the brain does indeed
                    > have a
                    > > bearing on personality and specializaton of
                    > abilities,
                    > > which may lead then to homosexual inclinational
                    > > development when it is concomitant with the
                    > necessary
                    > > and classic psychosexual influences from one's
                    > > familial environment. It is believed that more
                    > > testosteronal-like neurochemical effects lead to
                    > more
                    > > specialization of the brain (i.e., in general,
                    > > sociobiologists state that males are believed to
                    > be
                    > > more likely to have less development in verbal
                    > regions
                    > > of the cortex and more in spatial relations than
                    > > females). In general, females are believed by them
                    > to
                    > > have more of an integrated, or neurochemically
                    > > consolidated, cortical system. And, studies
                    > concerning
                    > > specialization of abilities and tasks do seem to
                    > > indicate that self-identified SSA'd adult males
                    > are
                    > > much more like their female counterparts, rather
                    > than
                    > > other males. But, other specialists in the field
                    > say
                    > > that this may be because of post-natal, acquired
                    > > behavior, even in our adulthood, since our
                    > behaviors
                    > > do indeed continually have significant effect on
                    > > various aspects of the brain. Plus, there was no
                    > > significant differences found between
                    > self-identified
                    > > SSA's women and other women, nor significant
                    > > similarities between SSA'd women and men in
                    > general.
                    > >
                    > > It does appear that it is widely accepted by those
                    > in
                    > > neuropsychology that particular hormonal effects
                    > on
                    > > the brain rather have alot more to do with
                    > > hermaphroditism and other biologically based
                    > sexual
                    > > disorders, and not as much on psychosexual
                    > > development.
                    > >
                    > > I hope this helps.
                    > >
                    > > Blessings,
                    > >
                    > > Tom
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- p_csilen <p_csilen@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > I saw my doctor today, and I got back the
                    > results of
                    > > > my blood work.
                    > > > Except for my triglicerides being a little too
                    > high
                    > > > everything looked
                    > > > pretty good. There was one result that stood
                    > out. My
                    > > > testosterone
                    > > > levels were excedingly low. My doctor said that
                    > this
                    > > > might or might
                    > > > not be a result of my malfunctioning pancrius,
                    > but
                    > > > it has a lot to do
                    > > > with my inability to lose weight. So, she gave
                    > me a
                    > > > testosterone
                    > > > shot. I asked my doctor if I could have had low
                    > > > testosterone levels
                    > > > all of my life. She said yes. I also told my
                    > doctor
                    > > > that I had been a
                    > > > part of the gay live for twenty years, and asked
                    > if
                    > > > this could be a
                    > > > contributing factor? She told me that there are
                    > > > different schools of
                    > > > thought on this matter, but it is certainly a
                    > > > possibility. My doctor
                    > > > was very impressed over the fact that I had left
                    > the
                    > > > life, and it
                    > > > turned out that she was a Christian too. We
                    > > > discussed the situation
                    > > > in great length. She told me that The Lord has
                    > > > forgiven and forgotten
                    > > > the sins, and its time that I do the same. She's
                    > > > right. That is
                    > > > easier said than done when I can't be out in
                    > public
                    > > > or watch TV
                    > > > without finding myself cruising.
                    > > >
                    > > > But I wonder. Could there be any credence to the
                    > > > hormone level
                    > > > theory, or is it what I have been told all my
                    > > > Christian life. "This
                    > > > is God's judgement against Him. Therefore I am
                    > > > getting my just
                    > > > deserts!"
                    > > >
                    > > > I have come to a place in life where I have had
                    > to
                    >
                    === message truncated ===



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