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Re: [ExGDBd] Re: Ex Gay Groups should (Biblical or Quaranical...)

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  • :-) rimanaiky hamuchun
    DEAR LAURA: IN THE PREMISES YOU POSTED, YOU SAID THE CHRISTIAN SOUTH , AND THE MUSLIM NORTH . I DO NOT THINK THESE PREMISES ARE ATTACHED TO TRUTH, AT LEAST
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 18, 2006
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      DEAR LAURA:

      IN THE PREMISES YOU POSTED, YOU SAID THE "CHRISTIAN SOUTH", AND THE "MUSLIM NORTH".
      I DO NOT THINK THESE PREMISES ARE ATTACHED TO TRUTH, AT LEAST NOT TO THE EXACT TRUTH.

      FOR SOME MONTHS, AT LEAST SINCE 11-S I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY THE USA, TO CITE AN EXAMPLE, IS SO PROMPT TO ACCEPT IMMIGRATION FROM MUSLIM COUNTRIES, RISKING THEIR OWN CITIZENS AND SECURITY, WHILE TRYING TO CONSTRUCT BARRIERS (PHYSICAL AND POLITICAL) TO STOP VERY ABLE FARMERS FROM CENTRAL AMERICA TO IMMIGRATE FOR SOME TIME AND HAVE BETTER INCOME. THIS IS POLITICS, BUT IF YOU WANT TO HAVE IT BIBLICAL, JESUS TOLD ONE SIMILAR STORY WHEN HE GAVE HIS PARABLE ABOUT THE MAN WHO WENT TO HIRE PEOPLE FOR HIS CROPS. JESUS SUGGESTED THAT THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS OPEN TILL THE LAST MINUTE, TO EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO WORKD AND OBEY.

      WHAT I AM TELLING HERE IS THAT WE, EXGAY PEOPLE, ARE BOUND TO EACH OTHER BY OUR MORAL POINTS OF VIEW, AND SOME HERE IN THIS BOARD ARE NOT EVEN CHRISTIANS. YOU JUST HAVE TO WATCH AT THE LIST OF MEMBERS AND YOU WILL FIND PEOPLE WITH MUSLIM NAMES AS THE FIRST MEMBERS.

      WHAT CHRISTIAN EXGAY PEOPLE COULD DO IS ASKING THE VATICAN AND OTHER INSTITUTIONS TO DEAL WITH THEIR AFFILIATES IN NIGERIA SO THE SITUATION OF HOMOSEXUAL PEOPLE CAN BE HANDLED IN A MORE HUMANITARIAN WAY. THIS IS WE CAN PRODUCE AN EFFECT FROM INSIDE THE CHURCH, NOT FROM OUTSIDE.

      REGARDING TO THE MUSLIM SIDE OF THE PROBLEM, A SIMILAR SOLUTION COULD BE SET.

      EXGAY PEOPLE, WE, MAYBE YOU, HAVE NOT A STRUGGLE AGAINST POLITICAL INSTITUTIONS. OUR STRUGGLE IS AGAINST EVIL ORGANIZED IN INVISIBLE PLACES (SOMETHING THAT MOST OF DENOMINATIONS PREACH, INCLUDING NON CHRISTIAN INSTITUTIONS).

      EXGAY MOVEMENT, IF THERE IS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE CALLED SO, IS NOT AN INSTITUTION.

      IN FACT, THERE SHOULD NOT BE SUCH A THING AS EXGAY IN A SOCIETY INSIDE WHICH GOD IS BEING OBEYED.

      EXGAY MOVEMENT PROTECTS US, FROM BEING ALONE IN OUR STRUGGLE, AS SOON AS WE FEEL THE NEED OF SUCH AN IDENTIFICATION.

      I THINK THAT STRUGGLING AGAINST SSA IS ENOUGH BURDEN FOR ANY HUMAN BEING. RECENTLY, I HAD THE MOST HORRIBLE SSA DREAM; I THINK SATAN IS HANDLING ISSUES SUCH AS THIS PROBLEMS AT NIGERIA. THE ONE WHO WANTS PEOPLE PUNISHED AND DESTROYED IS SATAN, AND SATAN IS A PERSON, IS A SPIRITUAL PERSON, WITH AND INDIVIDUALITY.

      I, JOSE, WAS CREATED BY GOD, AND NONE CAN DENY SUCH FACT HERE, IN USA, IN ANY MUSLIM COUNTRY. IT IS THAT I HAVE TO OBEY GOD, I HAVE TO BE THE MOST POSITIVE PERSON TOWARDS MY BODY, I CANNOT USE IT AS A WASTE, OR A WAY TO HAVE SEXUAL PLEASURE.

      PHYSICAL PUNISHMENT, WAS THE BIBLICAL, AND LATER LEGAL WAY, TO STOP HOMOSEXUALITY FROM BEING CHOSEN AS A WAY OF LIFE.

      MAY BE WHEN ONE GOES OUT TO CHURCH, AND SEES THE PASTOR PREACHING BY A TV CLOSED CIRCUIT, OR SO, ONE IS PROMPT TO THINK THAT THE SAME THING HAPPENS 100 KMS AWAY, OR AT NIGERIA.

      THE EXAMPLE SHOULD BEGIN AT HOME, WHEN OUR LOCAL CHURCHES START PREACHING THE KINGDOM IN THE WAY JESUS DID, TO PEOPLE ABSOLUTELY IGNORANT OF IT.

      JESUS STOOD QUIET, HE DID NOT HESITATE AT ALL, HE WROTE A LINE OR TWO IN THE SAND AND ASKED: "ARE YOU CLEAN ENOUGH TO BEAR THAT WOMAN'S SINS, AFTER HER STONING?"

      ACCORDING TO SOME PEOPLE IN ASIA, WHEN YOU PUNISH SOMEONE YOU BEAR THE SINS OF THAT PERSON, BECAUSE YOU INTERRUPT HIS OR HER NATURAL ROUTE IN LIFE. THIS IS WHY JESUS SAID: "CARRY YOUR OWN CROSS.... AND FOLLOW ME".

      THIS IS WHAT IS NOT UNDERSTOOD BY PEOPLE, WHY AND WHEN TO PUNISH. THIS WAS NOT UNDERSTOOD BY ANCIENT JEWS AT THE TIME JESUS PREACHED.

      THEREFORE, WHERE DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD BEGIN TO HANDLE PROBLEMS: NIGERIA, SOUTH AMERICA, USA, NETHERLANDS, CHINA?

      RESPECTFULLY
      JOSE



      Laura Miers <exgaydates@...> escribió: Yes and in the mean time people are stoned to deathwhether they be gay or ex gay. That is not a moral standits an immoral stand. The truth is that no matter who they are they should not be subjected to such treatment.You can not politically oppose gay marriage yet stand silent whenthey are being stoned to death.

      Jesus took a similar stand when a prostitute women was being stoned, he did not say "let me leave this one alone, he protected her from being stoned. That is not being political its being biblical.


      laempresadeserhombre <laempresadeserhombre@...> wrote:
      DEAR LAURA:
      I UNDERSTAND EXGAY GROUPS ARE NOT POLITICAL, UNLIKE GAY GROUPS. GAY
      WORLD (GW) IS A SHORTCUT TO DEATH.

      MAYBE THE NIGERIAN PEOPLE ARE ARGUING ABOUT THE RELATION BETWEEN GAY
      BEHAVIOUR AND AIDS SPREAD IN AFRICAN COUNTRIES (AND THE ENTIRE WORLD).

      EXGAY IS NOT A LABEL, PEOPLE STRUGGLING AGAINST SUCH DISTORTIONS IN
      CONDUCT CAN CHOOSE TO IDENTIFY IN ANY WAY THEY WANT.

      EXGAY IS AN OCCIDENTAL WAY OR NAMING PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST GAY WAY
      OF LIFE, NOT ALL HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN GAY PEOPLE INDEED.

      YOUR PROPOSAL HAS TO BE REVIEWED.

      FOR THE TIME BEING, THE BIBLE IS THE ONLY GUIDE TOWARDS ABSOLUTE AND
      COMPLETE HEALING OF THE DISTORTIONS THAT GAY LIFE INTRODUCE IN
      INDIVIDUALS AND SOCIETIES.

      SALVATION FOR GAY PEOPLE CANNOT BE GUARANTEED BY OTHER ROADS, I
      BELIEVE.

      YOURS

      JOSE

      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail.yahoo.com

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






      MUNASQAYKI RURASQA KACHUN


      ---------------------------------

      LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo.
      Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto.
      http://es.voice.yahoo.com

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John
      First, Jose, would you PLEASE turn OFF your CAPS and write in a regular fashion....writing in CAPS is not easy to read and causes many people to delete your
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 1, 2007
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        First, Jose, would you PLEASE turn OFF your CAPS and write in a regular fashion....writing in CAPS is not easy to read and causes many people to delete your posts without reading them...it is considered to be impolite to many.

        OK..the laws that are being enacted in Nigeria (by a predominately Muslim Government) are harsh and mostly serve no purpose I can see. Unlike the Bible the Koran justifies treatment of this issue in a very harsh way and I have not read any parts of the Koran that give any direct hope to sufferes, whereas in the Bible it clearly states (I am paraphasing) "and such as some of you WERE"...meaning they had changed. I have been in contact with the Bishop of the Episcopal Church in Nigeria recommending ways to handle the issue of homosexuality with better understanding and more compassion. I am attempting to place them in direct communication with several of the leading experts in the field and with people that deal with it from a God centered point of view so that when they speak of the issue it is in a way that comes across with more compassion. However, that being said, it is the radicals in the movement that have brought this to the point it is by insisting on sanctifying
        what is clearly forbidden. We ALL need to understand that this challenge people face is something that can be overcome and that we ALL fall short in our own ways. If the Bishop were to be repelled by the thought of shaking hands with a sinner he would have an easy life for he could never shake anyone's hand..his own included.

        The Episcopal Church in America is being torn apart by the ultra liberal, theologically incorrect opinions of some of their church leaders. If one takes the time to actually read there attempts to justify their position it is easy to see they do not use reason. They twist things so severly that the underlying premises are destroyed. Since the leadership is committing heresy the churches have no choice but to remove themselves from it's leadership and I agree with them wholeheartedly. It is crystal clear that a man and woman are meant to be together and that anything outside that is heresy...the writings of the Apostles are very clear on this point and only a fool (or someone desperate to justify their actions) could attempt to twist the Gospels to the point of giving sanctification to something that violates God's intent (or nature's for that matter).

        The reason the USA accepts persons from Muslim countries for immigration is shear political correctness. There should be (and used to be) many things one had to do to immigrate to the USA...the reason for the border fence and such is the HUGE number of immigrants flowing, illegally, across the border..that needs to be stopped. If we do need some of these people for some jobs we need to streamline the process for allowing them in to do the work, then leave and grant them no benefits (short or long term) and no citizenship for any children born in this country to people that are not already citizens..period.

        As to the term "ex-gay"..it is merely that a descriptive term, nothing more....if a person loses weight they don't refer to themselves as "ex-fat", etc....unfortunately in an attempt to describe that these people in fact exist we are stuck with using a term that the public can grasp....I wish there was a better term.

        I think all the churches of every stripe and kind have for far toooo long treated this subject in a way that does not promote healing, but ridicule. That is changing as more and more churches are educated that this is NOT some sort of strange and mystical thing, but something that is well understood in the vast majority of those suffering under it's influence. It is up to us to take this knowledge to the churches (all of them) and let them know we stand ready to assist them in helping people see their way out of whatever is challengeing them (not restricted to this issue)....for THAT is one of the core messages of the Gospels.

        Hope this helps....

        Your friend,

        John

        -@..., UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR., ":-) rimanaiky hamuchun" <laempresadeserhombre@...> wrote:
        DEAR LAURA:

        IN THE PREMISES YOU POSTED, YOU SAID THE "CHRISTIAN SOUTH", AND THE "MUSLIM NORTH".
        I DO NOT THINK THESE PREMISES ARE ATTACHED TO TRUTH, AT LEAST NOT TO THE EXACT TRUTH.

        FOR SOME MONTHS, AT LEAST SINCE 11-S I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY THE USA, TO CITE AN EXAMPLE, IS SO PROMPT TO ACCEPT IMMIGRATION FROM MUSLIM COUNTRIES, RISKING THEIR OWN CITIZENS AND SECURITY, WHILE TRYING TO CONSTRUCT BARRIERS (PHYSICAL AND POLITICAL) TO STOP VERY ABLE FARMERS FROM CENTRAL AMERICA TO IMMIGRATE FOR SOME TIME AND HAVE BETTER INCOME. THIS IS POLITICS, BUT IF YOU WANT TO HAVE IT BIBLICAL, JESUS TOLD ONE SIMILAR STORY WHEN HE GAVE HIS PARABLE ABOUT THE MAN WHO WENT TO HIRE PEOPLE FOR HIS CROPS. JESUS SUGGESTED THAT THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS OPEN TILL THE LAST MINUTE, TO EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO WORKD AND OBEY.

        WHAT I AM TELLING HERE IS THAT WE, EXGAY PEOPLE, ARE BOUND TO EACH OTHER BY OUR MORAL POINTS OF VIEW, AND SOME HERE IN THIS BOARD ARE NOT EVEN CHRISTIANS. YOU JUST HAVE TO WATCH AT THE LIST OF MEMBERS AND YOU WILL FIND PEOPLE WITH MUSLIM NAMES AS THE FIRST MEMBERS.

        WHAT CHRISTIAN EXGAY PEOPLE COULD DO IS ASKING THE VATICAN AND OTHER INSTITUTIONS TO DEAL WITH THEIR AFFILIATES IN NIGERIA SO THE SITUATION OF HOMOSEXUAL PEOPLE CAN BE HANDLED IN A MORE HUMANITARIAN WAY. THIS IS WE CAN PRODUCE AN EFFECT FROM INSIDE THE CHURCH, NOT FROM OUTSIDE.

        REGARDING TO THE MUSLIM SIDE OF THE PROBLEM, A SIMILAR SOLUTION COULD BE SET.

        EXGAY PEOPLE, WE, MAYBE YOU, HAVE NOT A STRUGGLE AGAINST POLITICAL INSTITUTIONS. OUR STRUGGLE IS AGAINST EVIL ORGANIZED IN INVISIBLE PLACES (SOMETHING THAT MOST OF DENOMINATIONS PREACH, INCLUDING NON CHRISTIAN INSTITUTIONS).

        EXGAY MOVEMENT, IF THERE IS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE CALLED SO, IS NOT AN INSTITUTION.

        IN FACT, THERE SHOULD NOT BE SUCH A THING AS EXGAY IN A SOCIETY INSIDE WHICH GOD IS BEING OBEYED.

        EXGAY MOVEMENT PROTECTS US, FROM BEING ALONE IN OUR STRUGGLE, AS SOON AS WE FEEL THE NEED OF SUCH AN IDENTIFICATION.

        I THINK THAT STRUGGLING AGAINST SSA IS ENOUGH BURDEN FOR ANY HUMAN BEING. RECENTLY, I HAD THE MOST HORRIBLE SSA DREAM; I THINK SATAN IS HANDLING ISSUES SUCH AS THIS PROBLEMS AT NIGERIA. THE ONE WHO WANTS PEOPLE PUNISHED AND DESTROYED IS SATAN, AND SATAN IS A PERSON, IS A SPIRITUAL PERSON, WITH AND INDIVIDUALITY.

        I, JOSE, WAS CREATED BY GOD, AND NONE CAN DENY SUCH FACT HERE, IN USA, IN ANY MUSLIM COUNTRY. IT IS THAT I HAVE TO OBEY GOD, I HAVE TO BE THE MOST POSITIVE PERSON TOWARDS MY BODY, I CANNOT USE IT AS A WASTE, OR A WAY TO HAVE SEXUAL PLEASURE.

        PHYSICAL PUNISHMENT, WAS THE BIBLICAL, AND LATER LEGAL WAY, TO STOP HOMOSEXUALITY FROM BEING CHOSEN AS A WAY OF LIFE.

        MAY BE WHEN ONE GOES OUT TO CHURCH, AND SEES THE PASTOR PREACHING BY A TV CLOSED CIRCUIT, OR SO, ONE IS PROMPT TO THINK THAT THE SAME THING HAPPENS 100 KMS AWAY, OR AT NIGERIA.

        THE EXAMPLE SHOULD BEGIN AT HOME, WHEN OUR LOCAL CHURCHES START PREACHING THE KINGDOM IN THE WAY JESUS DID, TO PEOPLE ABSOLUTELY IGNORANT OF IT.

        JESUS STOOD QUIET, HE DID NOT HESITATE AT ALL, HE WROTE A LINE OR TWO IN THE SAND AND ASKED: "ARE YOU CLEAN ENOUGH TO BEAR THAT WOMAN'S SINS, AFTER HER STONING?"

        ACCORDING TO SOME PEOPLE IN ASIA, WHEN YOU PUNISH SOMEONE YOU BEAR THE SINS OF THAT PERSON, BECAUSE YOU INTERRUPT HIS OR HER NATURAL ROUTE IN LIFE. THIS IS WHY JESUS SAID: "CARRY YOUR OWN CROSS.... AND FOLLOW ME".

        THIS IS WHAT IS NOT UNDERSTOOD BY PEOPLE, WHY AND WHEN TO PUNISH. THIS WAS NOT UNDERSTOOD BY ANCIENT JEWS AT THE TIME JESUS PREACHED.

        THEREFORE, WHERE DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD BEGIN TO HANDLE PROBLEMS: NIGERIA, SOUTH AMERICA, USA, NETHERLANDS, CHINA?

        RESPECTFULLY
        JOSE



        Laura Miers <exgaydates@...> escribió: Yes and in the mean time people are stoned to deathwhether they be gay or ex gay. That is not a moral standits an immoral stand. The truth is that no matter who they are they should not be subjected to such treatment.You can not politically oppose gay marriage yet stand silent whenthey are being stoned to death.

        Jesus took a similar stand when a prostitute women was being stoned, he did not say "let me leave this one alone, he protected her from being stoned. That is not being political its being biblical.

        laempresadeserhombre <laempresadeserhombre@...> wrote:
        DEAR LAURA:
        I UNDERSTAND EXGAY GROUPS ARE NOT POLITICAL, UNLIKE GAY GROUPS. GAY
        WORLD (GW) IS A SHORTCUT TO DEATH.

        MAYBE THE NIGERIAN PEOPLE ARE ARGUING ABOUT THE RELATION BETWEEN GAY
        BEHAVIOUR AND AIDS SPREAD IN AFRICAN COUNTRIES (AND THE ENTIRE WORLD).

        EXGAY IS NOT A LABEL, PEOPLE STRUGGLING AGAINST SUCH DISTORTIONS IN
        CONDUCT CAN CHOOSE TO IDENTIFY IN ANY WAY THEY WANT.

        EXGAY IS AN OCCIDENTAL WAY OR NAMING PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST GAY WAY
        OF LIFE, NOT ALL HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN GAY PEOPLE INDEED.

        YOUR PROPOSAL HAS TO BE REVIEWED.

        FOR THE TIME BEING, THE BIBLE IS THE ONLY GUIDE TOWARDS ABSOLUTE AND
        COMPLETE HEALING OF THE DISTORTIONS THAT GAY LIFE INTRODUCE IN
        INDIVIDUALS AND SOCIETIES.

        SALVATION FOR GAY PEOPLE CANNOT BE GUARANTEED BY OTHER ROADS, I
        BELIEVE.

        YOURS

        JOSE

        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        http://mail.yahoo.com

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        MUNASQAYKI RURASQA KACHUN


        ---------------------------------

        LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo.
        Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto.
        http://es.voice.yahoo.com

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        http://mail.yahoo.com

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • JOSE
        Brother: Thank you for rapporting, I will reread it this evening, I am late for job. I left the EXGAY MOVEMENT once, and the reward was becoming infected with
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 2, 2007
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          Brother:

          Thank you for rapporting, I will reread it this evening, I am late
          for job.

          I left the EXGAY MOVEMENT once, and the reward was becoming infected
          with AIDS.

          EXGAY is good to be applied by anyone who wants to be outside of GAY
          WORLD. I was part of GAY WORLD and I harmed myself inside, and I
          harmed others, including my family and strangers.

          When I was a GAY TEACHER, at a public school here, I was ready to
          defend my rights at the smallest attempt to expel me from my post.
          Well laws here do favor a teacher, always.

          I think I know what a GAY person feels is at risk with his or her
          conduct, while facing an entire society which DOES NOT WANT TO BE
          GAY. This was my case here.

          Last year, inside a different Yahoo Group, I begun criticizing the
          road the Lebanon war was taking and plenty of people (not lebanese)
          requested for my expulsion.

          It would be better for me to strengthen my relation with JESUS, and
          with my EXGAY HEALING EPISODE, before I try to handle the burdens of
          GAY AND HOMOPHOBIC PEOPLE in a NON CHRISTIAN national State.

          Can you imagine how many EXGAY people I have found in my country in
          the last 3 years?

          Only four, one after AIDS infection, like me.

          I understand, muslim people are an organized society, and they have
          to move on, like all of us.

          GAY people should be more flexible while placing society in trouble.
          GAY ATTITUDES, GAY LIVING, GAY SEX is not something pleasant for
          mothers and fathers to explain to their children in those countries,
          I guess.

          Understanding the Nigerian situation will take time for me... I want
          to learn, in spite of my apparent reluctance to take the problem into
          my healing agenda.

          Thank you John

          your Jose
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