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Re: Narth Seeking ..."Adult Children of Gay Parents"

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  • Elizabeth Reese
    Wow - that post sounds just like all the other things gays say about us - that we are angry and agianst homosexuals and hate them. Hmmm. Thanks for continuing
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 3, 2006
      Wow - that post sounds just like all the other things gays say about
      us - that we are angry and agianst homosexuals and hate them.
      Hmmm. Thanks for continuing that long legacy.

      My hope is that we (all people - gays, ex-gays) can find a common
      ground to begin to communicate without the anger and hatred spewing
      out. Eventually, the barriers have to come down and it might as
      well start today rather than tomorrow (where people usually want to
      start things.)

      Your comments were certainly indicative of the kind of anti-social
      rhetoric that gays face. I am not promoting homosexuality.
      However, if promoting communication is promoting homosexuality -
      then you and I view life differently.

      And the personal attacks on me can stop. You behavior is childish
      and not cute to anyone except yourself. That kind of insulting tops
      it with all the gays who cat call etc... I would expect more from
      people in this forum.




      -- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, John <tygrjohn02@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > In case you haven't noticed.....they already have TONS of forums
      (those promoting it)....unless you have been asleep for the last 25
      years.. they are everywhere....from Oprah to .......you can't turn
      on the TV or radio without being inundated with the politically
      correct dogma.....
      >
      > The ones that haven't had it so "wonderful" don't have a
      forum.....they need one...in fact there is an constant effort to
      shut them up....
      >
      > While Narth is not biased they are providing a forum for those
      that are NOT represented in the world..the ones you are promoting
      have LOTS of venues to access. It seems everytime anyone posts about
      something offering the dispossessed a chance to speak you jump in
      and want to "equal time" promote the lifestyle.....and saying it's
      just to be even handed is beyond comical.....the ones wanting to
      promote homosexaulity have the world at their disposal while the
      ones that want to share experiences in their lives that don't match
      the politically correct dreamworld that is promoted to us at every
      chance......DON'T have that luxury....it's time they had a voice and
      WITHOUT the other side carping on and on about how wonderful it is.
      >
      > If you have a wonderful story to share with us on the advantages
      of ssa please share it with us....but let the people that don't have
      a voice speak up...without the benefit of the politically correct
      dream merchant mumbo jumbo.
      >
      > Geez, one really wonders..............?????
      >
      > "Not to mention" most of us have heard enough of it...it's all
      over the place..every place you turn promotes it.
      Now..finally...here, is a chance for those without a voice to have a
      chance to speak and you want to interject more of it.......if you
      want to grab some pom poms and jump up and down on the sidelines
      maybe this isn't the venue to practice those cheers. This certainly
      isn't about being even handed...the issue is so utterly lopsided in
      favor of promoting it it's absurd.......as are those comments.
      >
      > Please let these people speak.......WITHOUT a word out of the
      other side.....in fact it might be good to tell them to SHUT UP.....
      for a few moments and allow some others to be heard....THAT is what
      being even handed would dictate...silencing their constant droning
      so the other side can be heard.....for a change.
      >
      > John
      >
      >
      >
      > Elizabeth Reese <bethreese316@...> wrote:
      > Not to mention, some people have a positive attitude
      towards being raised in a gay home. And those stories should be
      heard as well. I'm sure NARTH would welcome those stories and
      viewpoints.
      >
      > Laura <exgaydates@...> wrote:
      http://www.narth.com/blogs/currentevents/
      >
      > Adult Children of Gay Parents
      >
      > Narth is looking for people who are having difficulty with the
      > experience. Not much has been said about people in your situation
      and
      > you have not had much of a voice. However, now we welcome your
      stories
      > and struggles. Please remember this is a public blog and your
      comments
      > are read by many people. Feel free to use a screen name for
      > confidentiality purposes.
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo!
      Small Business.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and
      30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • John
      I am not angry in the least. I am tired of your constant promotion of homosexuality. Do you EVER work to have the voices of those who have been silenced heard,
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 3, 2006
        I am not angry in the least. I am tired of your constant promotion of homosexuality. Do you EVER work to have the voices of those who have been silenced heard, if so I must of missed it...can you give me one example of where you have done such for everytime I see a post giving a forum to this side, you always feel dutybound to insert a hypothetical that supports the opposite side of what these groups are about. At every opportunity you interject a comment meant to present it in a fashion that lends itself to promoting it. Perhaps this triggers something in you that you are dealing with...I don't know. I DO know that people in this forum that used to be activists tell me that the comments you make seem mighty familiar to them....and they don't come here to hear more of that.

        This is a place people come to find out about change, not about hearing how wonderful it is...they already know the reality of it and growing up in a household with 2 gay parents MAY have some nice things that could certainly happen to an individual, however it is certainly NOT something any rational person would ever want for their child if they cared about modeling normal, mature behaviour. Your comments attempt to support that behaviour at almost every juncture.

        Most of us in here are exposed to gay people all the time...are they nice and caring people, in fact some of them have a deeper sense of feelings and compassion than your run of the mill folks.. a trait which I admire. However is this something we want to promote. Certainly NOT. This isn't a forum for being "sure" a set of voices is heard that has no trouble being heard Beth, it's one for voices that AREN'T heard. We already hear the other ones every time we turn on the radio, the TV, open a magazine, attend a class, and on and on in fact we can hardly escape hearing the "voices" you champion. One wonders how you have arrived at the idea that these voices you speak of "need to be heard", you would have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to hear the voices you constantly posit are in "need" of being heard. We want to hear the ones that haven't had the benefit of being heard....can you grasp that? It doesn't say "Pro Gay Discussion Board".

        Your ability to produce "feelings" where none exist is enlightening. No where were any of these things you state with such moral authority said, yet you quicly equate these feelings when they don't exist, to bolster whatever point it is you are attempting to make, or better put to direct the discussion AWAY from the central issues. It's the hallmark of all the liberals I deal with daily. Failing to be able to support a position with rational thought they resort to name calling as you do here.

        The "long legacy" thats continuing is one of a failure to reason and the making of irrational assumptions that you plainly make..there is no "anger and hatred spewing out" there was simply a statement that we are here to hear voices that have been silenced. The ones you speak of have the microphone jammed in front of them at every opportunity.

        The "anti-social rhetoric" comment is likewise without any merit. This is merely a venue for people that want to change from the positions you always want to have heard and supported and yes, promoted. For when we strip away the veneer, the basis for your constant objections, that somehow these "voices" aren't being heard and we "need" to hear them is, on examination...well absurd is a good word.

        When Laura posted the post your direct comment was..and I quote "Not to mention some people have a POSITIVE ATTITUDE towards being raised in a gay home. And those stories should be heard as well."....that is a comment SUPPORTING homosexuality from any point you wish to view it from. From your vantage point I imagine you think these poor folks can't get their story out (pro gay)....the reality of it is quite the opposite...it is virtually everywhere we turn. The opposite cannot be said.

        The post said Narth was "looking for people who are having difficulty with the experience"........those are the voices they are asking to hear, there are jillions of places the other voices can be heard, they drown out everything....we don't need more of it here. If you "need" to hear those voices there are lots of places you can go to find them if that is what you "need". The group is for ex gays and those wishing to change and support them.

        How else can one view your comments......??? You act as if these voices you speak of aren't (or) need to be heard?....By whom?....Have you not noticed they already are heard?...Let's give those without a voice a place to be heard WITHOUT the other voices that we can hardly escape from each day constatly promoting lies and half truths. I hear enough of it in the outside world..People don't come here to hear more of it being promoted.

        Likewise calling my comments a "personal" attack is ridiculous, but expected..I get the same reactions when one dissects the thinking of people that put forth ideas that they cannot defend (such as these voices being suppressed and needing to be "heard" as you rush to their defense). Thinking people tire quickly of such semantics. The ONLY people who cannot hold a rational discourse on a topic are ones that, failing to be able to defend a position resort to name calling and claiming they (or their favorite minority/rights group) is being "attacked", personally or collectively. They do anything to draw the focus off of that which they actually say and the results which their thinking leads to with any reasoned thought.

        Perhaps you can answer a couple of simple questions.

        a.) What voices was Narth soliciting?
        b.) These voices that you say "should be heard".....can you tell us where they AREN'T
        being heard on the planet? (I know a alot of folks who might want to move there)
        c.) Conversely, can you tell us where the voices of those that have been silenced for
        so long are being heard in any meaningful way or forum?
        d.) Who, in particular, "needs" to hear the voices you speak of (i.e. those that can't
        hear them at present (or) have a need to hear them in addition to what they are
        already being heard in every place one hears, listens or reads)?
        e.) Since the tone of your comments indicates these folks must be having such an
        extremely difficult time being "heard" can you give us an example of how this
        is happening and who or what is preventing them from being "heard"?

        I rather doubt any of the above will be answered. I (unfortunately) expect more of what you have already produced, words absent any concrete association to actual statements or facts, but plenty of labels and improper use of the language which is precisely one of the ways rational thought is being destroyed by those who use words and terms that have no basis to support them, they only serve to imflame passions and vent "feelings", and miss-direct the reader away from the issues...but never do anything to arrive at a conclusion based upon the use of reasoning.

        John




        Elizabeth Reese <bethreese316@...> wrote:
        Wow - that post sounds just like all the other things gays say about
        us - that we are angry and agianst homosexuals and hate them.
        Hmmm. Thanks for continuing that long legacy.

        My hope is that we (all people - gays, ex-gays) can find a common
        ground to begin to communicate without the anger and hatred spewing
        out. Eventually, the barriers have to come down and it might as
        well start today rather than tomorrow (where people usually want to
        start things.)

        Your comments were certainly indicative of the kind of anti-social
        rhetoric that gays face. I am not promoting homosexuality.
        However, if promoting communication is promoting homosexuality -
        then you and I view life differently.

        And the personal attacks on me can stop. You behavior is childish
        and not cute to anyone except yourself. That kind of insulting tops
        it with all the gays who cat call etc... I would expect more from
        people in this forum.

        -- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, John <tygrjohn02@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > In case you haven't noticed.....they already have TONS of forums
        (those promoting it)....unless you have been asleep for the last 25
        years.. they are everywhere....from Oprah to .......you can't turn
        on the TV or radio without being inundated with the politically
        correct dogma.....
        >
        > The ones that haven't had it so "wonderful" don't have a
        forum.....they need one...in fact there is an constant effort to
        shut them up....
        >
        > While Narth is not biased they are providing a forum for those
        that are NOT represented in the world..the ones you are promoting
        have LOTS of venues to access. It seems everytime anyone posts about
        something offering the dispossessed a chance to speak you jump in
        and want to "equal time" promote the lifestyle.....and saying it's
        just to be even handed is beyond comical.....the ones wanting to
        promote homosexaulity have the world at their disposal while the
        ones that want to share experiences in their lives that don't match
        the politically correct dreamworld that is promoted to us at every
        chance......DON'T have that luxury....it's time they had a voice and
        WITHOUT the other side carping on and on about how wonderful it is.
        >
        > If you have a wonderful story to share with us on the advantages
        of ssa please share it with us....but let the people that don't have
        a voice speak up...without the benefit of the politically correct
        dream merchant mumbo jumbo.
        >
        > Geez, one really wonders..............?????
        >
        > "Not to mention" most of us have heard enough of it...it's all
        over the place..every place you turn promotes it.
        Now..finally...here, is a chance for those without a voice to have a
        chance to speak and you want to interject more of it.......if you
        want to grab some pom poms and jump up and down on the sidelines
        maybe this isn't the venue to practice those cheers. This certainly
        isn't about being even handed...the issue is so utterly lopsided in
        favor of promoting it it's absurd.......as are those comments.
        >
        > Please let these people speak.......WITHOUT a word out of the
        other side.....in fact it might be good to tell them to SHUT UP.....
        for a few moments and allow some others to be heard....THAT is what
        being even handed would dictate...silencing their constant droning
        so the other side can be heard.....for a change.
        >
        > John
        >
        >
        >
        > Elizabeth Reese <bethreese316@...> wrote:
        > Not to mention, some people have a positive attitude
        towards being raised in a gay home. And those stories should be
        heard as well. I'm sure NARTH would welcome those stories and
        viewpoints.
        >
        > Laura <exgaydates@...> wrote:
        http://www.narth.com/blogs/currentevents/
        >
        > Adult Children of Gay Parents
        >
        > Narth is looking for people who are having difficulty with the
        > experience. Not much has been said about people in your situation
        and
        > you have not had much of a voice. However, now we welcome your
        stories
        > and struggles. Please remember this is a public blog and your
        comments
        > are read by many people. Feel free to use a screen name for
        > confidentiality purposes.
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo!
        Small Business.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and
        30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >






        ---------------------------------
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        Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Elizabeth Reese
        You still sound angry and no matter what is said to you, you still see things in other people that YOU WANT to see - irregardless of them telling you
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 3, 2006
          You still sound angry and no matter what is said to you, you still
          see things in other people that YOU WANT to see - irregardless of
          them telling you differently. You have accussed me - wrongly.

          You have overlooked entirely what I wrote. It is too bad that
          people cannot work together.

          John, this is the last of the matter I will discuss with you. You
          are strangely fascinated with attacking me specifically.

          I have and will continue to challenge the stereotypes that ex-gays
          and christians are gay haters or anti-gay. I am not a gay hater or
          homosexual hater or petitiion agaisnt anyone's (ANYONE'S) right to
          pursue happiness and freedom so long as it does not tread on that of
          another's. And some posts read that way to me. That I may be in
          the minority bothers me none. Should a questioning homosexual come
          to this forum, I hope that they read some of my posts so that they
          may not feel attacked, persecuted etc... by such petitioning against
          gays that goes on here.

          As you know, you have been blocked from my personal e-mail as you
          have sent long nasty mail to me. I am ending this thread and will
          not respond to you on this subject anymore. I have attempted to
          assauge your curiousity of my motives and if that is not enough then
          nothing will do.








          --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, John <tygrjohn02@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > I am not angry in the least. I am tired of your constant promotion
          of homosexuality. Do you EVER work to have the voices of those who
          have been silenced heard, if so I must of missed it...can you give
          me one example of where you have done such for everytime I see a
          post giving a forum to this side, you always feel dutybound to
          insert a hypothetical that supports the opposite side of what these
          groups are about. At every opportunity you interject a comment meant
          to present it in a fashion that lends itself to promoting it.
          Perhaps this triggers something in you that you are dealing with...I
          don't know. I DO know that people in this forum that used to be
          activists tell me that the comments you make seem mighty familiar to
          them....and they don't come here to hear more of that.
          >
          > This is a place people come to find out about change, not about
          hearing how wonderful it is...they already know the reality of it
          and growing up in a household with 2 gay parents MAY have some nice
          things that could certainly happen to an individual, however it is
          certainly NOT something any rational person would ever want for
          their child if they cared about modeling normal, mature behaviour.
          Your comments attempt to support that behaviour at almost every
          juncture.
          >
          > Most of us in here are exposed to gay people all the time...are
          they nice and caring people, in fact some of them have a deeper
          sense of feelings and compassion than your run of the mill folks.. a
          trait which I admire. However is this something we want to promote.
          Certainly NOT. This isn't a forum for being "sure" a set of voices
          is heard that has no trouble being heard Beth, it's one for voices
          that AREN'T heard. We already hear the other ones every time we turn
          on the radio, the TV, open a magazine, attend a class, and on and on
          in fact we can hardly escape hearing the "voices" you champion. One
          wonders how you have arrived at the idea that these voices you speak
          of "need to be heard", you would have to be deaf, dumb and blind not
          to hear the voices you constantly posit are in "need" of being
          heard. We want to hear the ones that haven't had the benefit of
          being heard....can you grasp that? It doesn't say "Pro Gay
          Discussion Board".
          >
          > Your ability to produce "feelings" where none exist is
          enlightening. No where were any of these things you state with such
          moral authority said, yet you quicly equate these feelings when they
          don't exist, to bolster whatever point it is you are attempting to
          make, or better put to direct the discussion AWAY from the central
          issues. It's the hallmark of all the liberals I deal with daily.
          Failing to be able to support a position with rational thought they
          resort to name calling as you do here.
          >
          > The "long legacy" thats continuing is one of a failure to reason
          and the making of irrational assumptions that you plainly
          make..there is no "anger and hatred spewing out" there was simply a
          statement that we are here to hear voices that have been silenced.
          The ones you speak of have the microphone jammed in front of them at
          every opportunity.
          >
          > The "anti-social rhetoric" comment is likewise without any
          merit. This is merely a venue for people that want to change from
          the positions you always want to have heard and supported and yes,
          promoted. For when we strip away the veneer, the basis for your
          constant objections, that somehow these "voices" aren't being heard
          and we "need" to hear them is, on examination...well absurd is a
          good word.
          >
          > When Laura posted the post your direct comment was..and I
          quote "Not to mention some people have a POSITIVE ATTITUDE towards
          being raised in a gay home. And those stories should be heard as
          well."....that is a comment SUPPORTING homosexuality from any point
          you wish to view it from. From your vantage point I imagine you
          think these poor folks can't get their story out (pro gay)....the
          reality of it is quite the opposite...it is virtually everywhere we
          turn. The opposite cannot be said.
          >
          > The post said Narth was "looking for people who are having
          difficulty with the experience"........those are the voices they are
          asking to hear, there are jillions of places the other voices can be
          heard, they drown out everything....we don't need more of it here.
          If you "need" to hear those voices there are lots of places you can
          go to find them if that is what you "need". The group is for ex gays
          and those wishing to change and support them.
          >
          > How else can one view your comments......??? You act as if these
          voices you speak of aren't (or) need to be heard?....By
          whom?....Have you not noticed they already are heard?...Let's give
          those without a voice a place to be heard WITHOUT the other voices
          that we can hardly escape from each day constatly promoting lies and
          half truths. I hear enough of it in the outside world..People don't
          come here to hear more of it being promoted.
          >
          > Likewise calling my comments a "personal" attack is ridiculous,
          but expected..I get the same reactions when one dissects the
          thinking of people that put forth ideas that they cannot defend
          (such as these voices being suppressed and needing to be "heard" as
          you rush to their defense). Thinking people tire quickly of such
          semantics. The ONLY people who cannot hold a rational discourse on a
          topic are ones that, failing to be able to defend a position resort
          to name calling and claiming they (or their favorite minority/rights
          group) is being "attacked", personally or collectively. They do
          anything to draw the focus off of that which they actually say and
          the results which their thinking leads to with any reasoned thought.
          >
          > Perhaps you can answer a couple of simple questions.
          >
          > a.) What voices was Narth soliciting?
          > b.) These voices that you say "should be heard".....can you tell
          us where they AREN'T
          > being heard on the planet? (I know a alot of folks who
          might want to move there)
          > c.) Conversely, can you tell us where the voices of those that
          have been silenced for
          > so long are being heard in any meaningful way or forum?
          > d.) Who, in particular, "needs" to hear the voices you speak of
          (i.e. those that can't
          > hear them at present (or) have a need to hear them in
          addition to what they are
          > already being heard in every place one hears, listens or
          reads)?
          > e.) Since the tone of your comments indicates these folks must
          be having such an
          > extremely difficult time being "heard" can you give us an
          example of how this
          > is happening and who or what is preventing them from
          being "heard"?
          >
          > I rather doubt any of the above will be answered. I
          (unfortunately) expect more of what you have already produced, words
          absent any concrete association to actual statements or facts, but
          plenty of labels and improper use of the language which is precisely
          one of the ways rational thought is being destroyed by those who use
          words and terms that have no basis to support them, they only serve
          to imflame passions and vent "feelings", and miss-direct the reader
          away from the issues...but never do anything to arrive at a
          conclusion based upon the use of reasoning.
          >
          > John
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Elizabeth Reese <bethreese316@...> wrote:
          > Wow - that post sounds just like all the other things
          gays say about
          > us - that we are angry and agianst homosexuals and hate them.
          > Hmmm. Thanks for continuing that long legacy.
          >
          > My hope is that we (all people - gays, ex-gays) can find a common
          > ground to begin to communicate without the anger and hatred
          spewing
          > out. Eventually, the barriers have to come down and it might as
          > well start today rather than tomorrow (where people usually want
          to
          > start things.)
          >
          > Your comments were certainly indicative of the kind of anti-social
          > rhetoric that gays face. I am not promoting homosexuality.
          > However, if promoting communication is promoting homosexuality -
          > then you and I view life differently.
          >
          > And the personal attacks on me can stop. You behavior is childish
          > and not cute to anyone except yourself. That kind of insulting
          tops
          > it with all the gays who cat call etc... I would expect more from
          > people in this forum.
          >
          > -- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, John <tygrjohn02@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > In case you haven't noticed.....they already have TONS of forums
          > (those promoting it)....unless you have been asleep for the last
          25
          > years.. they are everywhere....from Oprah to .......you can't turn
          > on the TV or radio without being inundated with the politically
          > correct dogma.....
          > >
          > > The ones that haven't had it so "wonderful" don't have a
          > forum.....they need one...in fact there is an constant effort to
          > shut them up....
          > >
          > > While Narth is not biased they are providing a forum for those
          > that are NOT represented in the world..the ones you are promoting
          > have LOTS of venues to access. It seems everytime anyone posts
          about
          > something offering the dispossessed a chance to speak you jump in
          > and want to "equal time" promote the lifestyle.....and saying it's
          > just to be even handed is beyond comical.....the ones wanting to
          > promote homosexaulity have the world at their disposal while the
          > ones that want to share experiences in their lives that don't
          match
          > the politically correct dreamworld that is promoted to us at every
          > chance......DON'T have that luxury....it's time they had a voice
          and
          > WITHOUT the other side carping on and on about how wonderful it is.
          > >
          > > If you have a wonderful story to share with us on the advantages
          > of ssa please share it with us....but let the people that don't
          have
          > a voice speak up...without the benefit of the politically correct
          > dream merchant mumbo jumbo.
          > >
          > > Geez, one really wonders..............?????
          > >
          > > "Not to mention" most of us have heard enough of it...it's all
          > over the place..every place you turn promotes it.
          > Now..finally...here, is a chance for those without a voice to have
          a
          > chance to speak and you want to interject more of it.......if you
          > want to grab some pom poms and jump up and down on the sidelines
          > maybe this isn't the venue to practice those cheers. This
          certainly
          > isn't about being even handed...the issue is so utterly lopsided
          in
          > favor of promoting it it's absurd.......as are those comments.
          > >
          > > Please let these people speak.......WITHOUT a word out of the
          > other side.....in fact it might be good to tell them to SHUT
          UP.....
          > for a few moments and allow some others to be heard....THAT is
          what
          > being even handed would dictate...silencing their constant droning
          > so the other side can be heard.....for a change.
          > >
          > > John
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Elizabeth Reese <bethreese316@> wrote:
          > > Not to mention, some people have a positive attitude
          > towards being raised in a gay home. And those stories should be
          > heard as well. I'm sure NARTH would welcome those stories and
          > viewpoints.
          > >
          > > Laura <exgaydates@> wrote:
          > http://www.narth.com/blogs/currentevents/
          > >
          > > Adult Children of Gay Parents
          > >
          > > Narth is looking for people who are having difficulty with the
          > > experience. Not much has been said about people in your
          situation
          > and
          > > you have not had much of a voice. However, now we welcome your
          > stories
          > > and struggles. Please remember this is a public blog and your
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