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[ExGDBd] Re: Opening a can of worms: Leadership Questions

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  • wgrolfson1
    Matt? Incidentally, why did you ask that question in the first place?
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 1, 2002
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      Matt? Incidentally, why did you ask that question in the first place?
    • Matt Mercer
      Bill, That is a good question, and I am glad you asked. Originally, I asked what qualities must those in leadership have. The reason why I originally asked
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 1, 2002
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        Bill,

        That is a good question, and I am glad you asked.
        Originally, I asked what qualities must those in leadership have. The
        reason why I originally asked these questions, is because I have been
        listening to other men who are in leadership positions, ask some of the
        same questions. Over the years, I myself have been part of different
        Exodus-based support groups. One of the things I noticed was that the
        leaders often stayed until they burned out, with no one trained [or
        willing] to step up to the plate to take their place. And in some
        cases, out of "desperation" to continue, men were asked to take on
        leadership roles, for which they were not qualified. Some immediately
        fell into sexual sin. Others deserted the ministry, and just
        disappeared. They were not proven yet.

        As I look at this unique ministry, I honestly believe that
        the pressures are intense. This type of ministry, in some ways, is more
        difficult than many other forms of ministry. There is great opposition
        inwardly and outwardly. I do not believe this ministry is for the faint
        of heart, or for cowardly lions. This is warfare, and it is not
        glamorous.. I see a day when such ministries face severe opposition from
        our government-perhaps to the point of being heavily fined, jailed, and
        other severe sanctions, for our stand on this issue. Upcoming leaders,
        in my opinion, need to have no character flaws or weaknesses, that left
        unchecked, could make them vulnerable to caving into the opposition,
        and/or sexual sin.



        Matt



        -----Original Message-----
        From: wgrolfson1 [mailto:wgrolfson1@...]
        Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 2:03 AM
        To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [ExGDBd] Re: Opening a can of worms: Leadership Questions



        Matt? Incidentally, why did you ask that question in the first place?






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      • Matt Mercer
        I m on the West Coast. Matt ... From: Ralph J. Francis [mailto:ralph_j@mpinet.net] Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 10:07 PM To:
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 1, 2002
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          I'm on the West Coast.



          Matt



          -----Original Message-----
          From: Ralph J. Francis [mailto:ralph_j@...]
          Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 10:07 PM
          To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [ExGDBd] Re: Opening a can of worms: Leadership Questions



          matt
          where are you ? What part of the country are a leader in?
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Matt Mercer
          To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 12:02 AM
          Subject: RE: [ExGDBd] Re: Opening a can of worms: Leadership Questions


          I'm thinking out loud, and not necessarily responding to
          you
          Bill, even though I am writing on top of your response to me. I'm old
          enough to have been around since Exodus first started. I've seen the
          struggles, the failures of leaders, and some Exodus-affiliated
          ministries, collapse. I know that this type of ministry often draws
          people who are wounded and broken themselves, trying to rescue and
          save
          others. Yes, I know all that. I'm not asking for perfection in our
          leaders. We all struggle with stuff in our lives. But if that
          "stuff"
          whatever it is, impairs us, and infects those who work for us [staff
          members] and those we minister to, then it is my opinion, then it is
          time to step aside. Not necessarily forever, but until the pus that
          is
          infecting you and others, is cleansed.

          I personally believe that anyone desiring leadership in
          ex-gay ministry, needs to have the highest moral & standards of
          integrity. This to me means:



          No masturbation. If you masturbate, in my opinion, you cannot tell
          others to stop, what you yourself are still doing. I also believe,
          and
          can testify to leaders, who have fallen, because they did not deal
          with
          masturbation in their own lives. Let's just stop excusing it away.



          No manipulating others to do "ministry" [E.g. be a leader] because you
          "need" them. People in recovery, often do not have healthy boundaries
          yet, and may not be able to say no. We just don't just pick any warm
          bodies to fill ministry slots, whether on our board of directors,
          or...



          No justifying cutting financial corners, just because we are doing
          this
          for the LORD. Pay your bills on time, and, don't expect those who
          work
          with you in ministry, to donate thousands of hours for free. Pay your
          staff what they are worth; not assume that they are chattel and to be
          abused accordingly.



          The ends never justifies the means.



          Let your yes be yes and your no be no. Don't talk out of both sides
          of
          your mouth, and say one thing to someone and another thing to someone
          else. Speak the truth. Truth confronts. It changes and saves lives.
          If you as a leader know that something is wrong; if you know that
          someone's behavior is wrong, and may lead them to hell, and you say
          nothing, you have lied to them by not telling them the truth that
          could
          have set them free.



          Doing the right thing, whether it makes you liked or popular. Fear of
          being rejected or hurting others feelings, is not s biblical basis for
          cowardice. If you know the right thing to do and do not do it, then
          you
          have committed sin, per the book of James. Ignorance per the Bible,
          is
          no excuse. Hoping someone else does what God called you to do, is
          cowardice. When God calls us to ministry, He does not allow us to
          pick
          and choose what we are comfortable with. He didn't necessarily call
          us
          to be liked and popular. Very few of the Old Testament prophets were,
          for example. They spoke things that today we would call harsh and
          unloving, only because God Himself calls a "spade a spade."



          You probably would not want to work for me. Let me share where I am
          coming from. I have worked hard over the last 12 years to establish
          good boundaries for myself. I was a user and manipulator of people,
          and
          yet at the same time, was director of several different "Christian"
          ministries. I hurt and wounded people, by my own pride, my own ego,
          and,
          my lack of self-control, sexually and otherwise. Today, I am not
          perfect by any means. I still have my blind spots, and I need to be
          held accountable, like anyone else. I need mentoring and pastoring
          like
          anyone else. I have gone through years of therapy, as well as
          finished
          a graduate degree in Psychology, and one of the things I am learning
          from it, is not to excuse or rationalize anything that keeps myself or
          others from being nothing but their best, if NOT at least diminishing,
          excusing, rationalizing, behaviors, boundaries, etc., that still are
          signs of remaining pus, that left untreated, can infect those who
          minister to.



          Highest standards of moral purity and integrity. You may not agree
          with
          my list above. That's ok. I own my own stuff. We can argue about how
          I
          dotted the t's and crossed the I's, or didn't, and still miss the
          point.






          Matt

          [who just crawled off his soapbox]



          -----Original Message-----
          From: wgrolfson1 [mailto:wgrolfson1@...]
          Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 12:07 PM
          To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [ExGDBd] Re: Opening a can of worms: Leadership Questions



          Hi Matt,
          I'm not in a 'leadership' position but, even though I
          haven't 'arrived', per se, I feel that I'm sorta over the main hump
          in the road, if that makes sense. I mean, even tho I still struggle
          with my identity between a child of God vs; a child of the world, I
          feel that I may be able to help some whom have just started this
          journey out of the deception of relational brokeness.
          I believe, like any type of ministry, the new person should be
          mentored and work closely with the mentor, rather than 'lead'. Sooner
          or later, who knows when?, the novice can effectively 'lead'.
          Then there is the accountability factor. I would think that ANY
          ministry would have to be overseen by a ruling body of chairpersons.
          It's so easy for we humans to let our guard down and allow our
          emotions, personal convictions = Flesh, to muddle the important
          issues. So, the objectivity of a board is extremely helpful in this
          regard. If a 'leader' makes a mistake or has a 'fall'? I'm reminded
          of John Paulk and how Exodus, rather than throw out the baby with the
          bathwater, came to his side and supported him through restoration. I
          look at it this way, I work in a medical facility. If a nurse has
          done something, made a mistake, gotten involved/addicted with drugs,
          whatever, the facility (most) recognizes the huge investment it cost
          to train, orient and mentor this person. They may also consider the
          cost of having to do the same with a replacement. Then they may weigh
          the difference; Restore the one whom is already proficient with this
          facility or pay the expense of starting all over at ground zero?
          In summary, I guess I feel that a prospective new 'leader-in-
          training' should not really be expected to be 'healed and whole'.
          Rather, be closely mentored with a safe mentor whom can be trusted in
          confidence and support. Accountability partner? No. Not for me. I can
          always lie (though I never do, call it a pet peeve. lol).
          Have a nice day!

          Peace and Love, Bill









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