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23343Re: [ExGDBd] 20 Questions for "Ex-Gay" Ministry Leaders: A Response - Part 3a

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  • Thomas Morey
    Oct 3, 2008
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      Thanks for your prompt reply, and your explanation.
      But, I don't think I understand what the difference is that you say there is, or whether there really is any, between you and I.
      Yes, being a "foreigner" or "xenos" entails cultural differences from a host country, even when those foreigners have lived in that country for generations, such as with the Amish (Dutch, Belgium and German Rhineland), who immigrated to America throughout the 19th century, and the many Pakistanis in the UK, or Algerians in France in the 20th. They just haven't experienced significant enough acculturization and assimilation into that host country, for whatever reason, which intermarriage after a few generations usually facilitates. These cultural differences have their foundation in one's ancestry, and, therefore, biology. This is the lowest common denominator. The Irish have a different ancestry (Celts), and, therefore, a variation in biology, than the English (Anglo-Saxons). Of course, isn't this the case for all the examples you have mentioned too?
      In addition, I grew up with many Greek Americans, whose parents or grandparents immigrated mostly from the Macedonia area of Greece, not far from the mountains where Alexander the Great grew up. And I visited there for a week back in 1980, before heading to Israel for a month. Their parents and relatives did call me "xenos" (not to my face, but to their children), not because I didn't join in on their customs (I most certainly did! Tried everything that they did, including drinking shots of ouzo, and dancing in a circle at a wedding reception.) In other words, I did as the Romans, I mean the Macedonians, did! :-)In Macedonia, people who just met me appeared a bit apprehensive, even scared of me, because I was told that I looked like a Cretan, who have a huskier build, have dark wavy hair and are darker skinned, until I opened my mouth to use the limited amount of modern Greek that I knew. The dark wavy hair comes from my Irish and Flemish Europian
      ancestry, and the dark complexion comes from decades of being a lifeguard on the beaches near Atlantic City, New Jersey. Plus, those from the Isle of Crete have a reputation for being rather tough. And, "yes", Cretans are considered "xenos", too, despite the fact that they speak Greek, of course. And, I can imagine if a Cretan had come to visit, and behaved just as their Macedonian hosts did, and not like a Cretan, or whatever the Macedonian image of how a Cretan acts, he or she would still be "xenos". But, a gay-identified Greek would not be.
      So, the point being, I was STILL "xenos" (even before I opened my mouth), why? Because of my appearance, referring to my biological make-up; not my actions. If you've ever seen the very funny American movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" (which I'm pretty sure it would be in German now) the father makes it crystal clear that it's the same for anyone not of Greek ancestry, even someone getting baptized into the Greek Orthodox Church, and marries into a Greek family. They'll ALWAYS be "xenos", or at least "of the 'xenos'", although their children from marrying a Greek, who are brought up in the Greek Orthodox Church, wouldn't be. Why? Again, because of the blood line. So, this I believe is the etymology of that word.
      Btw, are you from around Vienna, or Innsbruk?

      --- On Thu, 10/2/08, Balu at Yahoo <Balu.Yahoo@...> wrote:

      From: Balu at Yahoo <Balu.Yahoo@...>
      Subject: Re: [ExGDBd] 20 Questions for "Ex-Gay" Ministry Leaders: A Response - Part 3a
      To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008, 8:03 PM

      Thomas Morey schrieb:

      >The word in Greek (xenos) does mean "stranger" or "foreigner". The clinical term, xenophobia, would involve anyone (or even an entire society of people), who has an irrational fear (reflected in their inappropriately discriminatory behaviors, such as removing themselves from the public presence of anyone who would trigger such a response, e.g., "whites only" public bathrooms or drinking fountains) of something about others that is constitutional in nature, such as skin color, or anything else that is an heritable characteristic concerning race and/or ethnic background.
      Not so fast! The rest i snipped. I don't discuss now the oringin of
      SSA/homosexuality or other. Now it is about terms. When we use the term
      different, then we can not talk.

      So, you think, that Xenophobia is only about biological differences,
      constitutional in nature?
      The main point about Xenophobia is the stranger, the foreigner. Is this
      This can also include another ethnic and culture. Nothing very
      different. Something like a European Jew and me. Or a polish man and me.
      Or an italian ("itaker" the bad word) and me OK?
      I think the Wikipedia-Definitio ns are OK. I make ist easy for me and
      copy, this is better english. :-). Also something not from America, but
      from Europe, where many home-ethnics life on a little place.
      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
      For xenophobia there are two main objects of the phobia. The first is a
      population group present within a society that is not considered part of
      that society. Often they are recent immigrants, but xenophobia may be
      directed against a group which has been present for centuries. This form
      of xenophobia can elicit or facilitate hostile and violent reactions,
      such as mass expulsion of immigrants, pogroms, or in the worst case,
      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
      The second form of xenophobia is primarily cultural, and the objects of
      the phobia are cultural elements which are considered alien. All
      cultures are subject to external influences, but cultural xenophobia is
      often narrowly directed, for instance at foreign loan words in a
      national language. It rarely leads to aggression against individual
      persons, but can result in political campaigns for cultural or
      linguistic purification. Isolationism, a general aversion of foreign
      affairs, is not accurately described as xenophobia.
      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
      Western Europe

      In Western Europe, new trends of internal immigration in the expanded
      European Union have led to an increase in anti-immigrant discourse and
      violence directed at people from new member states of the E.U. Those
      targeted for vilification and violence included immigrant workers of
      Roma background and other immigrants of a wide range of ethnicities and
      national origins from the new E.U. member states.
      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
      Northern, and Northwestern Europe

      In Northern and Northwestern Europe, a variety of xenophobic trends have
      occurred throughout its history. These xenophobic trends have largely
      been focused towards xenophobia towards people of non-European descent,
      anti-semitism, Catholic-Protestant strife, and xenophobia towards people
      of southern and eastern European descent.
      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
      United Kingdom and Ireland

      The United Kingdom has had a long history of xenophobia both internally
      and in its previous colonial possessions. Internally, the United Kingdom
      has faced ethnic tensions with Irish people. Irish people were
      historically looked down upon in British society with stereotypes of
      Irish being alcoholics, violent, and irresponsible people.Ireland' s
      struggle for independence in the early 20th century and the resulting
      partition of the island has led to divisions between nationalists who
      are predominantly Catholic and unionists who are predominantly
      Protestant, this divide led to xenophobia between the two faiths.


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