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22608Re: NARTH Opens Up Conference in Texas!

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  • chatha6232
    Nov 1, 2007
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      Thank you most kindly for your patience.

      I am going to a new church now. Two of my four most trusted friends
      go their too. And a few more folks than that know. So far, they are
      all nothing but the kindest. I've expressed to one friend that I'm so
      afraid this won't last, that I'm either being naive now or else I'm
      going to do something to mess it all up.

      Theologically, I know to say, "The church is not the enemy." I've
      said that. But on a practical level... anyway, I'm sorry for getting
      riled. Yes, I did misunderstand you. I'm sorry. Will you all please
      forgive me?

      Btw, my name is John.






      --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Morey
      <moreytom@...> wrote:
      >
      > That's all right, chatha6232. I understand the hurt
      > and para"normal"noia. I say it this way because you
      > and I both definitely have run into some difficulties
      > with churched folks who mean well, but sadly don't
      > have a clue regarding issues around sexuality. And
      > just as the ol' adage says, you fear that with which
      > you are not familiar. So they are quite defensive out
      > of fear. True! So, now gently instruct these weak
      > Christians to the truth, even when you are contested
      > and maligned, while looking to your own motives, as 2
      > Timothy 2:22 says.
      >
      > You should've been around when it was much more
      > prevalent decades ago. Exodus' biggest "enemy" (we
      > really didn't consider any flesh and blood to be this
      > though, even though they appeared to see us as such),
      > from whom we got a negative reaction, when it first
      > began in the 70's and 80's, was most faithful
      > Christians, because they just didn't know what to
      > think of us. The gay communities just ignored us, if
      > not actually were somewhat intrigued because we
      > initially for the most part came out from among them,
      > not the church! Now that we've been an established
      > coalition of ministries for close to 35 years, at the
      > hands of alot of past abuse from most evangelicals, we
      > are now considered by the overwhelming majority of
      > them their referral source! They are our friends, and
      > we now rely on them for not only financial, but also
      > spiritual support and continued growth in the Lord.
      >
      > Of course, this came with much growing pains towards
      > spiritual maturity in the leadership; and as we grew,
      > more abuse began to come by way of gay activists, such
      > as groups like PFLAG. Now, it is almost all from gays,
      > and their sympathizers, who mostly just can't
      > understand us, because of the spiritual side of all it
      > entails. Yes, we still get some of what you are
      > experiencing at times. The deep south is a place where
      > the fields are white, but surely there are alot of
      > sticker bushes amongst these blessed Bible believers.
      > So, you've run into a quite a few and have gotten
      > grazed with those nasty prickly stickers. No fun, for
      > sure. But don't let the hysterical messages of past
      > associates tell you that these folks are monsters in
      > disguise. This is where the real enemy is getting to
      > you, causing you to think that your past associates
      > are your friends and the church is your enemy. Don't
      > listen to them! You will go into a church setting with
      > all these presumptions, then instead of being open to
      > find out why the Lord has you there, you will react
      > defensively rather than respond confidently, and lose
      > whatever trust that might just have been developing.
      > This experience can continue to become self-fulfilling
      > for the rest of your life if you choose it to be.
      >
      > This is exactly what you did with us! Please go back
      > now and look what I posted in my replies to you, and
      > I'm pretty sure you will see quite a difference in
      > what I was saying to what you thought you were
      > hearing. For example, I never said nor intended to
      > threaten you with being thrown off. That was only the
      > "monster" attribution that Satan was getting his
      > jollies about with you, after you were listening to
      > the hyperbole in your mind from old associates. I knew
      > this was occurring, and was just waiting for the time
      > for you to begin to trust me and know this. I did
      > exactly the same thing when I first was confronted by
      > church ignorance, listening to my old friends. Yes,
      > they thought they were helping, but they just didn't
      > understand these spiritual issues, and how could I
      > expect them to?
      >
      > So, in conclusion, I know you have alot to share here,
      > and we wouldn't want to miss it because you might be
      > on the defensive and then leave. That would be a great
      > loss, ours and yours. So please continue to share
      > confidently, and sensitively!
      >
      > Thanks for your sincere and earnest correspondence!
      >
      > Blessings,
      >
      > Tom
      > --- chatha6232 <chatha6232@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Well, ok. But it sounded like you were threatening
      > > to kick me off the
      > > forum if I didn't defer to the "other" opinion.
      > > Dude, I'm so tired of
      > > fighting Christians while trying to live Christian.
      > > I can't do it.
      > > Sometimes I think back and remember that nobody ever
      > > argued with me
      > > when I was going to the bars and stuff. I'm always
      > > on the verge of
      > > saying, "Jesus, I love You and I want to stay with
      > > You, but I hate
      > > the church and I won't go back." I have about four
      > > very trusted
      > > friends who are the ones who keep me going to
      > > church.
      > >
      > > Forgive me for being so defensive, but so much of
      > > the time I feel
      > > like a wounded animal that's been cornered.
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Thomas
      > > Morey
      > > <moreytom@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Dear chatha6232,
      > > >
      > > > I don't think you're understanding what NARTH,
      > > Exodus
      > > > and I are saying. WE are not the ones who disagree
      > > > with you at all. In fact, we support you and your
      > > > position 100%! The voices of darkness promoting
      > > the
      > > > extremes, the world, perfectionism and calumny are
      > > > coming from the hysterics of hurting and bitter
      > > gays,
      > > > gay activism and possibly the spiritual ignorance
      > > of
      > > > some of those conservatives in the church that you
      > > > mentioned.
      > > >
      > > > WE are none of these! WE are in agreement and
      > > support
      > > > of you!
      > > >
      > > > Again, I hope this helps.
      > > >
      > > > Blessings,
      > > >
      > > > Tom
      > > > --- chatha6232 <chatha6232@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > Tom,
      > > > >
      > > > > I more than encourage people to participate in a
      > > > > nonpoliticized
      > > > > discussion. But it is personally immensely
      > > > > discouraging to me to hear
      > > > > ONLY one side that says or seems to say that a
      > > > > complete reorientation
      > > > > is requisite for "success." I know that there
      > > are
      > > > > thousands, like
      > > > > myself, who have not experienced change in
      > > > > orientation. I also know
      > > > > that others may, without hearing my take - which
      > > a
      > > > > more accurate
      > > > > take, feel that they are somehow not measuring
      > > up or
      > > > > that the
      > > > > whole message of hope is wrong and thus give up.
      > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Kick me off the forum if you wish, but I will
      > > > > continue to assert the
      > > > > Truth as I see it as well. I thought about this
      > > > > yesterday while at
      > > > > work. Correct me, please, if I'm wrong here, but
      > > I
      > > > > see two different
      > > > > starting points for our differing views. One is
      > > that
      > > > > sex is desirable
      > > > > or even required for happy living so we must
      > > > > accomplish complete
      > > > > reorientation or near-enough reorientation for
      > > > > required heterosexual
      > > > > relations to be enjoyed or tolerated. The other
      > > is
      > > > > that sex is
      > > > > unnecessary for happy living and so incomplete
      > > > > reorientation is not a
      > > > > problem when the focus is put on the soul, where
      > > it
      > > > > should be in the
      > > > > first place. I have many straight friends who
      > > cannot
      > > > > fathom that I am
      > > > > not standing eagerly in some line to be (forgive
      > > my
      > > > > intensity and
      > > > > sarcasm here) slapped on the head with
      > > annointing
      > > > > oil
      > > > > until "straight". All the ex-exgay furor seems
      > > to
      > > > > stem from these to
      > > > > different initial views. When they don't see
      > > > > complete reorientation,
      > > > > and that being what they are told and retold to
      > > both
      > > > > want and expect,
      > > > > logically they find fault with the message. But
      > > when
      > > > > the Truth is
      > > > > present, hope is given, and perhaps some will
      > > stay
      > > > > with Jesus for the
      > > > > long-haul.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > I don't mean to discourage anyone from
      > > participating
      > > > > in the forum; I
      > > > > myself am here only at the discretion of others.
      > > But
      > > > > I request that
      > > > > others not discourage folks like me either with
      > > a
      > > > > lopsided view,
      > > > > please and thank you.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com,
      > > Thomas
      > > > > Morey
      > > > > <moreytom@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Dear chata6232,
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Your love for the Lord evident and what you
      > > are
      > > > > saying
      > > > > > is right on target personally. Yep, Matthew
      > > 6:33
      > > > > > echoes what you are saying about putting first
      > > > > things
      > > > > > first, "...seek first the Kingdom of God and
      > > His
      > > > > > righteousness, and then all these other things
      > > > > will be
      > > > > > added to you as well."
      > > > > >
      > > > > > As for Exodus, the quote you quoted originally
      > > > > came
      > > > > > from Exodus leaders, and is used alot by their
      > > > > local
      > > > > > affiliated ministries, as well as Focus on the
      > > > > > Family's Love Won Out group. As for NARTH, it
      > > is
      > > > > not a
      > > > > > Christian organization, but certainly of
      > > kindred
      > > > > > spirit regarding at least the whole issue of
      > > > > unwanted
      > > > > > homosexuality. Yes, they emphasize
      > > reorientation,
      > > > > but
      > > > > > they consider what you are experiencing a part
      > > of
      > > > > this
      > > > > > process! Yep, they are very forthright with
      > > the
      > > > > truth
      > > > > > about just what entails successes, not only a
      > > > > change
      > > > > > in the direction of sexual inclinations, but
      > > also
      > > > > the
      > > > > > dimunition of same sex attractions to at least
      > > a
      > > > > > manageable level, if not almost completely
      > > > > eradicated
      > > > > > or nonproblematic. All of these aspects
      > > concerning
      > > > > the
      > > > > > alteration of one's sexual orientation is
      > > > > significant
      > > > > > to NARTH leaders, and is to be considered part
      > > and
      > > > > > parcel of what truly identifies and defines
      > > > > "change".
      > > > > > They are also religious institution-friendly.
      > > One
      > > > > > doesn't come by this very often. For example,
      > > just
      > > > > > take a look at the latest Jones and Yarhouse
      > > study
      > >
      > === message truncated ===
      >
      >
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