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A dilemma

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  • korrykorrykoan
    Boy does this bother me. Recently, a representative for a VERY high-profile public figure in America made a lot of noise referencing his ex-gay friend who
    Message 1 of 3 , Nov 11, 2009
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      Boy does this bother me. Recently, a representative for a VERY high-profile public figure in America made a lot of noise referencing his "ex-gay" friend who purportedly found Jesus and "left the lifestyle," et al, et cetera. This was fairly BIG news in the gay blogosphere for a while.

      The weird, very weird, problem for me is that I knew this "ex-gay" friend this guy was talking about. I had sex with him 18 years ago, when I was my 27 and the fellow was 42 -- well AFTER he dedicated himself to serving ex-gay ministries.

      This has forced me to look back and contemplate how absurd this all was. I got the guy's name and phone number via my local chapter of Exodus, and he actually worked for a church in Northern California at the time, in addition to being a spokesman for "ex-gay" philosophy. He was quite passionate about it, writing angry editorials denouncing the gay rights movement as "the sodomy movement." But he was also quite clever in stating, even publicly, that he was "not fully healed." Apparently that seems to have been his excuse to have his cake and eat it too. I myself was going back-and-forth on whether to pursue the ex-gay trip, and even before I went to visit him, we talked about the possibility of engaging in some form of physical interaction that may or may not become sexual.

      The night that I got there we shared a bed, and did a little of fooling around before we both went to sleep. I enjoyed it, he enjoyed it, but we both felt very conflicted, so that was the relationship didn't go further.

      The guy is not anything like a manipulative sociopath; he did many good works helping the needy in his life, and did so with sincere dedication. Rather, he seemed to epitomize the anguished split mentality that many of us who have ever contemplated ex-gayism go through. When I contacted him again a year and a half later, we considered getting together for a possible relationship, but then he told me that an angel in a dream said not to. The follow-up calls I had with him led me to believe that his life seemed to be falling apart, and today I fear may not even be around anymore.

      Hence, even though I could make headlines telling the world my story, and my relationship with this man, I am reluctant to do so because few journalists or bloggers would treat this issue with the sensitivity it deserves. Conservatives, meanwhile, would claim I was lying. And furthermore, I don't want me gaining public recognition for a sex scandal, rather than for my talents and accomplishments. But I feel creeped out, still, that this representative of this extremely high-profile public figure, addressing an large conservative audience in the media, would be essentially promoting a blatant lie about somebody I happen to know.

      Frustrating.
    • Joiner Rex
      I appreciate your sensitivity toward this guy and not going public. I just want to mention along the line that someone else mentioned - it seems that a lot
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 12, 2009
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        I appreciate your sensitivity toward this guy and not going public. I just want to mention along the line that someone else mentioned - it seems that a lot of gay guys try very hard for the argument that they were born gay. To me, this is a total non-issue. It makes no difference whether there is a biological component or not, or predisposition, etc. For those us who believe the Bible as God's main way of speaking to us, the main thing that matters is whether or not acting out our homosexuality is sinful. So, if the scriptures which seem to be talking about same sex behavior are being mis-interpreted, then I would concentrate on helping folks to properly interpret those scriptures in their context, and not try to prove homosexual activity is ok between loving, committed persons because they were born that way. To me it is a total non-issue, interesting, but does not in any way prove whether or not it's ok to embrace our homosexuality. Someone
        could use the same argument to say they were born with an attraction to minors, animals, many partners, alcoholism, or whatever. Plus, what about bi-sexuality? By that same argument, if truly some people are born with a bi-sexual orientation, then why not embrace that and be married to both a man and a woman? Actually, it sounds like fun!

        Jerry




        ________________________________
        From: korrykorrykoan <korrykorrykoan@...>
        To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 11:22:10 PM
        Subject: [ExExGayMinistry] A dilemma


        Boy does this bother me. Recently, a representative for a VERY high-profile public figure in America made a lot of noise referencing his "ex-gay" friend who purportedly found Jesus and "left the lifestyle," et al, et cetera. This was fairly BIG news in the gay blogosphere for a while.

        The weird, very weird, problem for me is that I knew this "ex-gay" friend this guy was talking about. I had sex with him 18 years ago, when I was my 27 and the fellow was 42 -- well AFTER he dedicated himself to serving ex-gay ministries.

        This has forced me to look back and contemplate how absurd this all was. I got the guy's name and phone number via my local chapter of Exodus, and he actually worked for a church in Northern California at the time, in addition to being a spokesman for "ex-gay" philosophy. He was quite passionate about it, writing angry editorials denouncing the gay rights movement as "the sodomy movement." But he was also quite clever in stating, even publicly, that he was "not fully healed." Apparently that seems to have been his excuse to have his cake and eat it too. I myself was going back-and-forth on whether to pursue the ex-gay trip, and even before I went to visit him, we talked about the possibility of engaging in some form of physical interaction that may or may not become sexual.

        The night that I got there we shared a bed, and did a little of fooling around before we both went to sleep. I enjoyed it, he enjoyed it, but we both felt very conflicted, so that was the relationship didn't go further.

        The guy is not anything like a manipulative sociopath; he did many good works helping the needy in his life, and did so with sincere dedication. Rather, he seemed to epitomize the anguished split mentality that many of us who have ever contemplated ex-gayism go through. When I contacted him again a year and a half later, we considered getting together for a possible relationship, but then he told me that an angel in a dream said not to. The follow-up calls I had with him led me to believe that his life seemed to be falling apart, and today I fear may not even be around anymore.

        Hence, even though I could make headlines telling the world my story, and my relationship with this man, I am reluctant to do so because few journalists or bloggers would treat this issue with the sensitivity it deserves. Conservatives, meanwhile, would claim I was lying. And furthermore, I don't want me gaining public recognition for a sex scandal, rather than for my talents and accomplishments. But I feel creeped out, still, that this representative of this extremely high-profile public figure, addressing an large conservative audience in the media, would be essentially promoting a blatant lie about somebody I happen to know.

        Frustrating.







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Pete Zayonce
        Jerry, It is all about words & how we use them. You raise some interesting points: 1 - Polygamy (many spouses) was common place in the bible - especially in
        Message 3 of 3 , Nov 14, 2009
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          Jerry,

          It is all about words & how we use them.

          You raise some interesting points:

          1 - Polygamy (many spouses) was common place in the bible - especially in
          many of the Old Testament epic stories of a hero/heroin and their multiple
          concurrent spouses.
          2 - Please put some more thought into this statement: *"Someone could use
          the same argument to say they were born with an attraction to minors,
          animals, many partners, alcoholism, or whatever."* This is a broad sweeping
          view that is promulgated by ex-gay "Christian" ministries. It shows a lack
          of understanding of homosexuality, and also shows a lack of understanding of
          bestiality, pedophilia, ephebophelia, polygamy, and sadly relates all of the
          above on the same level as alcoholism. Just so that you understand clearly -
          a person can be an alcoholic and still any one of the others.

          You can be a homosexual or heterosexual who engages in bestiality, but
          bestiality is not the orientation.
          You can be a homosexual or heterosexual who engages in pedophilia, but
          pedophilia is not the orientation. (just a special note here, there are
          statistically more heterosexual pedophiles and ephebophiles than there are
          homosexual ones).
          You can be a homosexual or heterosexual who engages in polygamy -(and many
          middle eastern countries still have polygamy marriages between one man and
          many wifes.)
          You can be an alcoholic and still be any one of the other things that are
          mentioned above.

          The understanding of the language and context of ancient language scripture
          is vitally important. It is imperative that we spend time looking at
          context, and looking at how words were used.

          Here's an example:

          In the 1970's if I told you to "Open your windows" - you would have walked
          to the wall, and opened the glass window to let air in.
          In the 2000's if I tell a person to "Open your windows" - they are likely to
          turn on their computer and start up Microsoft Windows.
          In the 1970's if I told you to "Clean your mouse. Is your mouse OK?" - you
          would have gone looking for your pet rodent.
          In the 2000's if I tell you to "Clean your mouse. Is your mouse OK?" - you
          are most likely going to check the pointing device that's attached to your
          computer.

          It's exactly the same words - but context and intention is vital in
          understanding the question. This same idea needs to be considered when
          looking at scripture.

          There are key questions to consider when reading the Bible "Who is the
          author? Who is the author writing to? What language was it written in?
          What is the nuances of the language at the time, and how does that apply
          today?"

          None of those questions make the Bible any less valuable - actually, they
          enhance the bible because it gives greater meaning to the text that
          Christians consider to be sacred.

          When you take the content, intended audience, and the context into
          consideration - it is very important in establishing a standpoint for
          homosexual orientation. It is not merely "interesting" - it is vital.

          Regards,
          Pete


          2009/11/13 Joiner Rex <rexjoiner@...>

          >
          >
          > I appreciate your sensitivity toward this guy and not going public. I just
          > want to mention along the line that someone else mentioned - it seems that a
          > lot of gay guys try very hard for the argument that they were born gay. To
          > me, this is a total non-issue. It makes no difference whether there is a
          > biological component or not, or predisposition, etc. For those us who
          > believe the Bible as God's main way of speaking to us, the main thing that
          > matters is whether or not acting out our homosexuality is sinful. So, if the
          > scriptures which seem to be talking about same sex behavior are being
          > mis-interpreted, then I would concentrate on helping folks to properly
          > interpret those scriptures in their context, and not try to prove homosexual
          > activity is ok between loving, committed persons because they were born that
          > way. To me it is a total non-issue, interesting, but does not in any way
          > prove whether or not it's ok to embrace our homosexuality. Someone
          > could use the same argument to say they were born with an attraction to
          > minors, animals, many partners, alcoholism, or whatever. Plus, what about
          > bi-sexuality? By that same argument, if truly some people are born with a
          > bi-sexual orientation, then why not embrace that and be married to both a
          > man and a woman? Actually, it sounds like fun!
          >
          > Jerry
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: korrykorrykoan <korrykorrykoan@...<korrykorrykoan%40yahoo.com>
          > >
          > To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com <exexgayministry%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 11:22:10 PM
          > Subject: [ExExGayMinistry] A dilemma
          >
          >
          > Boy does this bother me. Recently, a representative for a VERY high-profile
          > public figure in America made a lot of noise referencing his "ex-gay" friend
          > who purportedly found Jesus and "left the lifestyle," et al, et cetera. This
          > was fairly BIG news in the gay blogosphere for a while.
          >
          > The weird, very weird, problem for me is that I knew this "ex-gay" friend
          > this guy was talking about. I had sex with him 18 years ago, when I was my
          > 27 and the fellow was 42 -- well AFTER he dedicated himself to serving
          > ex-gay ministries.
          >
          > This has forced me to look back and contemplate how absurd this all was. I
          > got the guy's name and phone number via my local chapter of Exodus, and he
          > actually worked for a church in Northern California at the time, in addition
          > to being a spokesman for "ex-gay" philosophy. He was quite passionate about
          > it, writing angry editorials denouncing the gay rights movement as "the
          > sodomy movement." But he was also quite clever in stating, even publicly,
          > that he was "not fully healed." Apparently that seems to have been his
          > excuse to have his cake and eat it too. I myself was going back-and-forth on
          > whether to pursue the ex-gay trip, and even before I went to visit him, we
          > talked about the possibility of engaging in some form of physical
          > interaction that may or may not become sexual.
          >
          > The night that I got there we shared a bed, and did a little of fooling
          > around before we both went to sleep. I enjoyed it, he enjoyed it, but we
          > both felt very conflicted, so that was the relationship didn't go further.
          >
          > The guy is not anything like a manipulative sociopath; he did many good
          > works helping the needy in his life, and did so with sincere dedication.
          > Rather, he seemed to epitomize the anguished split mentality that many of us
          > who have ever contemplated ex-gayism go through. When I contacted him again
          > a year and a half later, we considered getting together for a possible
          > relationship, but then he told me that an angel in a dream said not to. The
          > follow-up calls I had with him led me to believe that his life seemed to be
          > falling apart, and today I fear may not even be around anymore.
          >
          > Hence, even though I could make headlines telling the world my story, and
          > my relationship with this man, I am reluctant to do so because few
          > journalists or bloggers would treat this issue with the sensitivity it
          > deserves. Conservatives, meanwhile, would claim I was lying. And
          > furthermore, I don't want me gaining public recognition for a sex scandal,
          > rather than for my talents and accomplishments. But I feel creeped out,
          > still, that this representative of this extremely high-profile public
          > figure, addressing an large conservative audience in the media, would be
          > essentially promoting a blatant lie about somebody I happen to know.
          >
          > Frustrating.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >



          --
          Pete Zayonce
          m: 0410248621
          e: pete.zayonce@...

          "I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I
          realized I was somebody."
          � Lily Tomlin


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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