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Re: The non-religious dimension of the ex-gay trip: masculinity

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  • bob11wyre
    This is an interesting approach to claim that the religious right knows the cause of being homosexual. I was a Lutheran minister for a number of years and
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 11, 2009
      This is an interesting approach to claim that the religious right knows the "cause" of being homosexual. I was a Lutheran minister for a number of years and have studied this extensively. Recently I heard the author of the new book "Nature's Choice What Science Reveals About the Biological Origins of Sexual Orientation: by Cheryl Weill (ISBN 978-0-7890-3475-5 new paperback version).

      She has brought together all the scientific studies that cover this area with a summary of them all. Knowing Focus on the Family is down the road from us (we both live in Denver) I asked her about the psychological "origins" of Sexual Orientation that the religious right claims. He did write to them asking for scientific studies for their beliefs. (all of the studies in the book are peer reviewed and vetted by professionals). They never wrote her back.

      She maintains that culture, parents, and all the other factors that have been cited by them do not "cause" anyone to become gay. The origins are biological. She presents over wealming evidence.

      If you appraoch this from the religious point of view....they have yet to do peer reviewed studies that prove the change is possible. Even those who claim that "change" has occured in their lives acknowledge that they have to "force" themselves to be straight. There are a few that "believe" that they have changed. Sexuality Orientation is not a either or proposition....people are on a scale that goes from straight to gay with points along the way. Sexual desire is also on a scale. I am sure that some people can "force down" a weak gay orientation.

      One of the studies down is a culture where young boys are removed from the female group to live with the male group. They are expected to suck off the older male members. They grow up to be straight members of their society. It goes to show that gay behavior is not "learned."

      All of this pretty much falls in line with the recent position of the APA. They acknowledge that some people want to becomee "straight" because of their religous beliefs. But they urged that these people be told that "change" rarely happens.

      This field of study is not studied openly (Congress approves all scientific grant studies and they don't approve studies that directly study this homosexuality....they have to write the studies in an ajacent area like HIV) Guess people don't want to really know the truth of sexual orientation.


      --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, "korrykorrykoan" <korrykorrykoan@...> wrote:
      > Part of ex-gay philosophy argues that you can "pray away the gay." Another part argues that for men, they never bonded with their fathers, were too attached to their mothers, and were often rejected or abused by their male peers and siblings in their childhood. Hence, argues the ex-gay crowd, if learns to feel affirmed in one's masculinity by other men, and finds a compassionate father-surrogate to bond with, you will no longer crave other men's masculinity via same-sex feelings.
      > I am curious to know if any guys ever felt any inadequacy towards themselves as males growing up, and if they ever tried to work on healing such a wound if they did indeed have this issue?
      > For what it is worth, I fit this psychological profile to a T. My father was mentally ill and alcoholic, prone towards moody and irrational behavior, though he was equally often completely absorbed in his work and not around very much. My older (half) brothers were mean-spirited and abusive towards me, and I was frequently the butt of jokes at school, particularly by other boys, not only because of my weight, but my complete lack of athletic aptitude. My mother seemed to be the only consistent source of unconditional love in all of this. Alas, she also had a very narcissistic personality.
      > Yet not all gay men grow up in such a manner. In fact, I had a relationship with a professional American football player once, and I have known many gay men in life with ripped muscles, who can play sports, and who don't have effeminate personalities.
      > That is not to say I have an effeminate personality, but I will say that back when I first started going to gay bars, I was disappointed by the high number of gay men I encountered were indeed somewhat queeny and bitchy.
    • MrChuk@aol.com
      .... and besides.. what does it matter about the cause? Even if we knew for sure, we d still be gay or have SSA, wouldn t we? So, it s all about acceptance
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 11, 2009
        .... and besides.. what does it matter about the cause? Even if we knew for sure, we'd still be gay or have SSA, wouldn't we?
        So, it's all about acceptance [by ourselves and others] isn't it, not etiology?

        -----Original Message-----
        From: AD4071 <ad4071@...>
        To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:15 pm
        Subject: Re: [ExExGayMinistry] Re: The non-religious dimension of the ex-gay trip: masculinity

        Sorry guys, but I just have to throw in another two cents worth! LOL

        I think there's a very fine line between being born sensitive/rough and tumble and being born gay/straight. The difference is minor. Both are from birth. I've read so many things from both sides on the origin of homosexuality and personally I think the jury is still out on this one and I don't know if there will ever be a final verdict. Even with the medical/genetic research, the arguments go both ways.

        No matter what you think about the ex-gay movement, at least they don't do as the homophobic religious people do, saying we "chose to be gay." That just isn't so. I can't conceive anyone would ever chose to be discriminated against and/or ridiculed as we often are.


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