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Re: [ExExGayMinistry] Re: Greetings and Blessings to all!

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  • John Brown
    Dear Brother Alan   Me again. I find that when I struggle or am having a hard time it is often because I am trying to figure it all out, understand with my
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 5, 2009
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      Dear Brother Alan
       
      Me again. I find that when I struggle or am having a hard time it is often because I am trying to figure it all out, understand with my own limited mind what is happening, trying to control things the way I think they should go instead of trusting God. I find I want it all last week and cant understand its not happening right now the way I want it to. God is still there waiting patiently till I run out of steam, realize He has been there all along and begin again to hand Him back the reins of my life and let Him do what He needs to do and wants to on His time schedule (not mine usually) and ib His way. When I do I find out His way is always better than anything I could have come up with or quite even dreamed of.
       
      As for reconciling you sexual orientation and faith its to simply trust God that He is there and loves you even if you dont have it all figured out yet. That He loves you in spite of your questions and doubts. To trust that in His good time He will reveal things to you and bring understanding. It would be nice maybe if God would wave a magic wand over us and we'd become instant perfect Christian without any doubts, fears, questions, relaspes/backslidings, know the will fully at all times and do it. However that is not the real world. Christanity is about growth and change which comes gradually. Just like humans who start as babies (needing someone to do everything for them) then progess to toddler, then school age, then teenager and finally adult (presumed to be able to handle a good portion of life on their own) so is our Christian walk. It is a step by step, minute by minute, day by day, year by year process until we die or He comes back to get at His
      second coming. Hopefully we get better at walking it and come to understand things better and struggle less but it is still all a part of life. There will never be a time in this life I believe where we will know everything there is to know, and know and understand God perfectly. There will always be those things we cant understand or explain where we simply have to trust that the one who can see the beginning to the end is in charge and taking care of things to bring about His desired goal and purpose in us. Gay may complicate things or perhaps make it harder due to the actions of others (especially so called "Christians") but the principles are still the same. The good fight is to remain in the faith, keep up the fight and not quit until we cross the finish line and recieve our reward. It is not to let our doubts fears etc get the better of us but to perservere in spite of them. Doing what we know to do and leaving the rest on the shelf until God
      chooses to reveal the answers to us. To be honest its not the things I dont know that scares me its what I do know. There is enough there to keep me occupied, reflecting, meditating on Him and working on so I can become more like Christ. Even after 40 plus years of being a Christian and in ministry there are still things I am working on and am still changing and being changed. I suspect it will remain so until the day of my death, But I also find it exciting as I watch God working never knowing what He may do next. It is like a new adventure each day with God doing the leading. If this life thus far is any example then the next should be really glorious especially when I can get rid of the constant pain of arthritis, knees that dont want to work right, deafness, etc. Lay aside all the problems of this life get my new body minus all that stuff will be glorious in itself and that is just the begining I believe. Anyway enough rambling for now. You got my
      views so will close and send this on through
       
      God Bless You
       
      Rev. John W. Brown

      --- On Thu, 11/5/09, ad4071 <ad4071@...> wrote:


      From: ad4071 <ad4071@...>
      Subject: [ExExGayMinistry] Re: Greetings and Blessings to all!
      To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 8:51 AM


       





      Hello,

      I am a "newbie" here too, but I wanted to greet you and tell you I am looking forward to hearing from you.

      When you say you "struggle" this reminds me that this is something I have been thinking about for some time. If we are struggling, it seems like something is not quite right. Jesus Himself said His yoke is easy and His burden is light. (Matt. 11:30) That doesn't sound like a struggle to me.

      1 Timothy 6:12 talks about fighting the good fight of faith. So, if I am right, our "struggle" is only one of faith and God does the rest. So, when I did all the struggling, I think I was attempting to do something that was God's work in the first place.

      I am still not resolute in where all this gels, but I know my past beliefs of guilt, struggling and not being able to reconcile my same sex attraction with my faith, kept me away from God rather than trying to seek Him and His truth. There is so much I don't know and still don't have the answers to, but I know that any teaching that keeps me from seeking God, can't be right. I was taught that God would have nothing to do with me when I "act out" and am no-repentant of my acting out. This resulted in me completely shutting myself off from God, His Word and any fellowship with other believers. This teaching didn't mean I was supposed to never "act out" again, but it did mean I was supposed to have the intent and will to not do it again.

      Even (and maybe especially) when we are in our sinful, fallen state, I know God wants us to turn to Him and seek His truth. I was avoiding Him completely. No prayer, no Bible study and no fellowship with other believers. How can a sick person get better when they won't go near a Physician?

      "When Jesus heard that, He said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick."
      (Matthew 9:12 NKJV)

      Please keep posting and hopefully our struggle will be resolved.

      Blessings,
      Alan

      --- In exexgayministry@ yahoogroups. com, "veritatisamor" <VeritatisAmor@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > A very good friend of mine let me to this site. He told me that my assistance could benefit this site. I myself struggle a great deal with personal orientation. I have for years sought out support and assistance which was at times a blessing but others grief, hardships, and pain. I found my name to be the source of detraction both on the internet and clergy circles. I have a few clergymen in my area who view it their God given duty to cause me suffering Ironically, I feel there are just big closeted queens. Its like being a former drug addict, alcholic, etc. You change one addiction for another.
      > I am blessed.I live one day at a time. I hope to hear from you all and help in any way that I can. I am blessed to have the friend that pointed me out to this group. As we are all seeking to be happy and whole. Hugs from the Delta and to all my brothers in the deep south!
      >











      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • MrChuk@aol.com
      Some resources that have been helpful. Chuck _ Ex-Gay Conversions_ (http://www.lionking.org/~kovu/bible/section10.html) _Conversion Therapy_
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 6, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Some resources that have been helpful.
        Chuck

        _'Ex-Gay' Conversions_
        (http://www.lionking.org/~kovu/bible/section10.html)
        _Conversion Therapy_ (http://burr.kent.edu/stories/m_praythegay.html)
        _Christian & Gay_ (http://www.spiritualfruits.com/homopages.html)
        _Homosexuality and The Bible_
        (http://www.lionking.org/~kovu/bible/toc.html)
        _Dispelling the Myths_
        (http://www.gaysouthafrica.org.za/homosexuality/dispel.asp)




        In a message dated 11/5/2009 10:51:57 A.M. Central Standard Time,
        ad4071@... writes:






        Hello,

        I am a "newbie" here too, but I wanted to greet you and tell you I am
        looking forward to hearing from you.

        When you say you "struggle" this reminds me that this is something I have
        been thinking about for some time. If we are struggling, it seems like
        something is not quite right. Jesus Himself said His yoke is easy and His
        burden is light. (Matt. 11:30) That doesn't sound like a struggle to me.

        1 Timothy 6:12 talks about fighting the good fight of faith. So, if I am
        right, our "struggle" is only one of faith and God does the rest. So, when I
        did all the struggling, I think I was attempting to do something that was
        God's work in the first place.

        I am still not resolute in where all this gels, but I know my past beliefs
        of guilt, struggling and not being able to reconcile my same sex
        attraction with my faith, kept me away from God rather than trying to seek Him and
        His truth. There is so much I don't know and still don't have the answers
        to, but I know that any teaching that keeps me from seeking God, can't be
        right. I was taught that God would have nothing to do with me when I "act out"
        and am no-repentant of my acting out. This resulted in me completely
        shutting myself off from God, His Word and any fellowship with other believers.
        This teaching didn't mean I was supposed to never "act out" again, but it
        did mean I was supposed to have the intent and will to not do it again.

        Even (and maybe especially) when we are in our sinful, fallen state, I
        know God wants us to turn to Him and seek His truth. I was avoiding Him
        completely. No prayer, no Bible study and no fellowship with other believers. How
        can a sick person get better when they won't go near a Physician?

        "When Jesus heard that, He said to them, "Those who are well have no need
        of a physician, but those who are sick."
        (Matthew 9:12 NKJV)

        Please keep posting and hopefully our struggle will be resolved.

        Blessings,
        Alan

        --- In _exexgayministry@exexgayminisexe_
        (mailto:exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com) , "veritatisamor" <VeritatisAmor@Ver> wrote:
        >
        > A very good friend of mine let me to this site. He told me that my
        assistance could benefit this site. I myself struggle a great deal with personal
        orientation. I have for years sought out support and assistance which was
        at times a blessing but others grief, hardships, and pain. I found my name
        to be the source of detraction both on the internet and clergy circles. I
        have a few clergymen in my area who view it their God given duty to cause me
        suffering Ironically, I feel there are just big closeted queens. Its like
        being a former drug addict, alcholic, etc. You change one addiction for
        another.
        > I am blessed.I live one day at a time. I hope to hear from you all and
        help in any way that I can. I am blessed to have the friend that pointed me
        out to this group. As we are all seeking to be happy and whole. Hugs from
        the Delta and to all my brothers in the deep south!
        >







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • MrChuk@aol.com
        Just let go and let God ..... so easy it seems like cheating! Chuk In a message dated 11/5/2009 1:14:03 P.M. Central Standard Time,
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 7, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Just "let go and let God"..... so easy it seems like cheating!
          Chuk


          In a message dated 11/5/2009 1:14:03 P.M. Central Standard Time,
          godismovingtoday@... writes:




          Dear Brother Alan

          Me again. I find that when I struggle or am having a hard time it is often
          because I am trying to figure it all out, understand with my own limited
          mind what is happening, trying to control things the way I think they should
          go instead of trusting God. I find I want it all last week and cant
          understand its not happening right now the way I want it to. God is still there
          waiting patiently till I run out of steam, realize He has been there all
          along and begin again to hand Him back the reins of my life and let Him do
          what He needs to do and wants to on His time schedule (not mine usually) and
          ib His way. When I do I find out His way is always better than anything I
          could have come up with or quite even dreamed of.

          As for reconciling you sexual orientation and faith its to simply trust
          God that He is there and loves you even if you dont have it all figured out
          yet. That He loves you in spite of your questions and doubts. To trust that
          in His good time He will reveal things to you and bring understanding. It
          would be nice maybe if God would wave a magic wand over us and we'd become
          instant perfect Christian without any doubts, fears, questions,
          relaspes/backslidinif God would wave a magic wand over us and we'd become instant
          perfect Christian without any doubts, fears, questions,
          relaspes/backslidin<WBR>gs, know the will fully at all times and do it. However that is not the
          real world. Christanity is about growth and change which comes gradually. Just
          like humans who start as babies (needing someone to do everything for
          them) then progess to toddler, then school age, then teenager and finally adult
          (presumed to be able to handle a good portion of life on their own)
          second coming. Hopefully we get better at walking it and come to
          understand things better and struggle less but it is still all a part of life. There
          will never be a time in this life I believe where we will know everything
          there is to know, and know and understand God perfectly. There will always
          be those things we cant understand or explain where we simply have to trust
          that the one who can see the beginning to the end is in charge and taking
          care of things to bring about His desired goal and purpose in us. Gay may
          complicate things or perhaps make it harder due to the actions of others
          (especially so called "Christians"second coming. Hopefully we get better at
          walking it and come to understand things better and struggle less but it is
          still all a part of life. There will never be a time in this life I believe
          where we will know everything there is to know, and know and understand God
          perfectly. There will always be those things we cant understand or
          chooses to reveal the answers to us. To be honest its not the things I
          dont know that scares me its what I do know. There is enough there to keep me
          occupied, reflecting, meditating on Him and working on so I can become more
          like Christ. Even after 40 plus years of being a Christian and in ministry
          there are still things I am working on and am still changing and being
          changed. I suspect it will remain so until the day of my death, But I also
          find it exciting as I watch God working never knowing what He may do next. It
          is like a new adventure each day with God doing the leading. If this life
          thus far is any example then the next should be really glorious especially
          when I can get rid of the constant pain of arthritis, knees that dont want to
          work right, deafness, etc. Lay aside all the problems of this life get my
          new body minus all that stuff will be glorious in itself and that is just
          the begining I believe. Anyway enough rambling for now. You got my
          views so will close and send this on through

          God Bless You

          Rev. John W. Brown

          --- On Thu, 11/5/09, ad4071 <_ad4071@...4_ (mailto:ad4071@...) >
          wrote:

          From: ad4071 <_ad4071@...4_ (mailto:ad4071@...) >
          Subject: [ExExGayMinistry] Re: Greetings and Blessings to all!
          To: _exexgayministry@exexgayminisexe_
          (mailto:exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com)
          Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 8:51 AM



          Hello,

          I am a "newbie" here too, but I wanted to greet you and tell you I am
          looking forward to hearing from you.

          When you say you "struggle" this reminds me that this is something I have
          been thinking about for some time. If we are struggling, it seems like
          something is not quite right. Jesus Himself said His yoke is easy and His
          burden is light. (Matt. 11:30) That doesn't sound like a struggle to me.

          1 Timothy 6:12 talks about fighting the good fight of faith. So, if I am
          right, our "struggle" is only one of faith and God does the rest. So, when I
          did all the struggling, I think I was attempting to do something that was
          God's work in the first place.

          I am still not resolute in where all this gels, but I know my past beliefs
          of guilt, struggling and not being able to reconcile my same sex
          attraction with my faith, kept me away from God rather than trying to seek Him and
          His truth. There is so much I don't know and still don't have the answers
          to, but I know that any teaching that keeps me from seeking God, can't be
          right. I was taught that God would have nothing to do with me when I "act out"
          and am no-repentant of my acting out. This resulted in me completely
          shutting myself off from God, His Word and any fellowship with other believers.
          This teaching didn't mean I was supposed to never "act out" again, but it
          did mean I was supposed to have the intent and will to not do it again.

          Even (and maybe especially) when we are in our sinful, fallen state, I
          know God wants us to turn to Him and seek His truth. I was avoiding Him
          completely. No prayer, no Bible study and no fellowship with other believers. How
          can a sick person get better when they won't go near a Physician?

          "When Jesus heard that, He said to them, "Those who are well have no need o
          f a physician, but those who are sick."
          (Matthew 9:12 NKJV)

          Please keep posting and hopefully our struggle will be resolved.

          Blessings,
          Alan

          --- In exexgayministry@ yahoogroups. com, "veritatisamor" <VeritatisAmor@
          ...> wrote:
          >
          > A very good friend of mine let me to this site. He told me that my
          assistance could benefit this site. I myself struggle a great deal with personal
          orientation. I have for years sought out support and assistance which was
          at times a blessing but others grief, hardships, and pain. I found my name
          to be the source of detraction both on the internet and clergy circles. I
          have a few clergymen in my area who view it their God given duty to cause me
          suffering Ironically, I feel there are just big closeted queens. Its like
          being a former drug addict, alcholic, etc. You change one addiction for
          another.
          > I am blessed.I live one day at a time. I hope to hear from you all and
          help in any way that I can. I am blessed to have the friend that pointed me
          out to this group. As we are all seeking to be happy and whole. Hugs from
          the Delta and to all my brothers in the deep south!
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Joiner Rex
          Thanks Chuck for the resources. But I m still one of those on the fence on this issue. For example, whether the Bible ever mentions the word homosexual
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 8, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Thanks Chuck for the resources. But I'm still one of those on the fence on this issue. For example, whether the Bible ever mentions the word "homosexual" or any of its forms seems to be totally irrelevant to the discussion. And one person in his article says the law was given to us to prove we couldn't keep it - something like that - I don't remember the exact wording. But the Bible says, "The law was our school master to bring us onto Christ..." then goes on to say "we are no longer under a schoolmaster." So, I'm in perfect agreement the new covenant is not the same as the old, but it is indeed a better covenant as the Apostle Paul said. But, why would we throw out the baby with the bath water. Jesus said he didn't come to destroy the law or the prophets, but to fulfill.

            Having said that, if indeed the Bible (the whole Bible, rightly-divided) is the Word of God, then I would just like to find out what it teaches, not try to say that just because the word "homosexual" doesn't appear in the Bible, this simply means that God was never talking about sexual acts between people who loved each other whenever he talked about prohibited sexual acts. And just to explain it all away by saying it only had to do with temple prostitution, nothing else. By that definition, it would perfectly ok with God if unmarried people had sexual relations with other unmarried people, as long as they are both willing partners, even if they have 100 partners before they get married. But once they are married, they are bound only to each other. Is that what some of these people believe?

            Trying to understand,

            Jerry in Michigan

            As a gay man, I'd love to embrace that part of me. But so far the arguments are very far-fetched and puny. You've got to come up with some things far more convincing than that, in my opinion.




            ________________________________
            From: "MrChuk@..." <MrChuk@...>
            To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2009 1:24:12 AM
            Subject: Re: [ExExGayMinistry] Re: Greetings and Blessings to all!


            Some resources that have been helpful.
            Chuck

            _'Ex-Gay' Conversions_
            (http://www.lionking .org/~kovu/ bible/section10. html)
            _Conversion Therapy_ (http://burr. kent.edu/ stories/m_ praythegay. html)
            _Christian & Gay_ (http://www.spiritua lfruits.com/ homopages. html)
            _Homosexuality and The Bible_
            (http://www.lionking .org/~kovu/ bible/toc. html)
            _Dispelling the Myths_
            (http://www.gaysouth africa.org. za/homosexuality /dispel.asp)




            In a message dated 11/5/2009 10:51:57 A.M. Central Standard Time,
            ad4071@yahoo. com writes:

            Hello,

            I am a "newbie" here too, but I wanted to greet you and tell you I am
            looking forward to hearing from you.

            When you say you "struggle" this reminds me that this is something I have
            been thinking about for some time. If we are struggling, it seems like
            something is not quite right. Jesus Himself said His yoke is easy and His
            burden is light. (Matt. 11:30) That doesn't sound like a struggle to me.

            1 Timothy 6:12 talks about fighting the good fight of faith. So, if I am
            right, our "struggle" is only one of faith and God does the rest. So, when I
            did all the struggling, I think I was attempting to do something that was
            God's work in the first place.

            I am still not resolute in where all this gels, but I know my past beliefs
            of guilt, struggling and not being able to reconcile my same sex
            attraction with my faith, kept me away from God rather than trying to seek Him and
            His truth. There is so much I don't know and still don't have the answers
            to, but I know that any teaching that keeps me from seeking God, can't be
            right. I was taught that God would have nothing to do with me when I "act out"
            and am no-repentant of my acting out. This resulted in me completely
            shutting myself off from God, His Word and any fellowship with other believers.
            This teaching didn't mean I was supposed to never "act out" again, but it
            did mean I was supposed to have the intent and will to not do it again.

            Even (and maybe especially) when we are in our sinful, fallen state, I
            know God wants us to turn to Him and seek His truth. I was avoiding Him
            completely. No prayer, no Bible study and no fellowship with other believers. How
            can a sick person get better when they won't go near a Physician?

            "When Jesus heard that, He said to them, "Those who are well have no need
            of a physician, but those who are sick."
            (Matthew 9:12 NKJV)

            Please keep posting and hopefully our struggle will be resolved.

            Blessings,
            Alan

            --- In _exexgayministry@ exexgayminisexe_
            (mailto:exexgayministry@ yahoogroups. com) , "veritatisamor" <VeritatisAmor@ Ver> wrote:
            >
            > A very good friend of mine let me to this site. He told me that my
            assistance could benefit this site. I myself struggle a great deal with personal
            orientation. I have for years sought out support and assistance which was
            at times a blessing but others grief, hardships, and pain. I found my name
            to be the source of detraction both on the internet and clergy circles. I
            have a few clergymen in my area who view it their God given duty to cause me
            suffering Ironically, I feel there are just big closeted queens. Its like
            being a former drug addict, alcholic, etc. You change one addiction for
            another.
            > I am blessed.I live one day at a time. I hope to hear from you all and
            help in any way that I can. I am blessed to have the friend that pointed me
            out to this group. As we are all seeking to be happy and whole. Hugs from
            the Delta and to all my brothers in the deep south!
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • MrChuk@aol.com
            Jerry, It will never be my intent to persuade/argue with you one way or the other about the Scriptures. I offer resources with the hope that they will help
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 9, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Jerry,
              It will never be my intent to persuade/argue with you one way or the other
              about the Scriptures. I offer resources with the hope that they will help
              you find your own peace/answers.

              My journey o peace took me all my adult life. I've come to the
              conclusion in my old age... regardless of what we all "think" about the Bible, God,
              Jesus, etc.... if one can accept the bottom line.. that "GOD IS LOVE"...
              then all the rest are just moot points for arguments sake. And, I've learned
              to trust and have faith that regardless of it all, God loves me and will
              take care of me in the end. Takes away a lot of pressure for sure.

              I've attended Bob Jones University, graduated from a Baptist College and
              been involved in conservative/fundamentalism most of my life and I've been
              taught so much scripture interpretations that it now wears on my mind....
              I've just learned to "let go and let God" and for me, that has brought my
              peace.

              I hope you find yours.

              Hugz,
              Chuk


              In a message dated 11/8/2009 7:19:01 P.M. Central Standard Time,
              rexjoiner@... writes:




              Thanks Chuck for the resources. But I'm still one of those on the fence on
              this issue. For example, whether the Bible ever mentions the word
              "homosexual" or any of its forms seems to be totally irrelevant to the discussion.
              And one person in his article says the law was given to us to prove we
              couldn't keep it - something like that - I don't remember the exact wording. But
              the Bible says, "The law was our school master to bring us onto Christ..."
              then goes on to say "we are no longer under a schoolmaster.Thanks Chuck
              for the resources. But I'm still one of those on the fence on this issue. For
              example, whether the Bible ever mentions the word "homosexual" or any of
              its forms seems to be totally irrelevant to the discussion. And one person
              in his article says the law was given

              Having said that, if indeed the Bible (the whole Bible, rightly-divided)
              is the Word of God, then I would just like to find out what it teaches, not
              try to say that just because the word "homosexual" doesn't appear in the
              Bible, this simply means that God was never talking about sexual acts between
              people who loved each other whenever he talked about prohibited sexual
              acts. And just to explain it all away by saying it only had to do with temple
              prostitution, nothing else. By that definition, it would perfectly ok with
              God if unmarried people had sexual relations with other unmarried people,
              as long as they are both willing partners, even if they have 100 partners
              before they get married. But once they are married, they are bound only to
              each other. Is that what some of these people believe?

              Trying to understand,

              Jerry in Michigan

              As a gay man, I'd love to embrace that part of me. But so far the
              arguments are very far-fetched and puny. You've got to come up with some things far
              more convincing than that, in my opinion.

              ________________________________
              From: "_MrChuk@..._ (mailto:MrChuk@...) " <_MrChuk@..._
              (mailto:MrChuk@...) >
              To: _exexgayministry@exexgayminisexe_
              (mailto:exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com)
              Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2009 1:24:12 AM
              Subject: Re: [ExExGayMinistry] Re: Greetings and Blessings to all!

              Some resources that have been helpful.
              Chuck

              _'Ex-Gay' Conversions_
              (_http://www.lionking_ (http://www.lionking/) .org/~kovu/
              bible/section10. html)
              _Conversion Therapy_ (_http://burr._ (http://burr./) kent.edu/ stories/m_
              praythegay. html)
              _Christian & Gay_ (_http://www.spiritua_ (http://www.spiritua/)
              lfruits.com/ homopages. html)
              _Homosexuality and The Bible_
              (_http://www.lionking_ (http://www.lionking/) .org/~kovu/ bible/toc.
              html)
              _Dispelling the Myths_
              (_http://www.gaysouth_ (http://www.gaysouth/) africa.org.
              za/homosexuality /dispel.asp)

              In a message dated 11/5/2009 10:51:57 A.M. Central Standard Time,
              ad4071@yahoo. com writes:

              Hello,

              I am a "newbie" here too, but I wanted to greet you and tell you I am
              looking forward to hearing from you.

              When you say you "struggle" this reminds me that this is something I have
              been thinking about for some time. If we are struggling, it seems like
              something is not quite right. Jesus Himself said His yoke is easy and His
              burden is light. (Matt. 11:30) That doesn't sound like a struggle to me.

              1 Timothy 6:12 talks about fighting the good fight of faith. So, if I am
              right, our "struggle" is only one of faith and God does the rest. So, when
              I
              did all the struggling, I think I was attempting to do something that was
              God's work in the first place.

              I am still not resolute in where all this gels, but I know my past beliefs
              of guilt, struggling and not being able to reconcile my same sex
              attraction with my faith, kept me away from God rather than trying to seek
              Him and
              His truth. There is so much I don't know and still don't have the answers
              to, but I know that any teaching that keeps me from seeking God, can't be
              right. I was taught that God would have nothing to do with me when I "act
              out"
              and am no-repentant of my acting out. This resulted in me completely
              shutting myself off from God, His Word and any fellowship with other
              believers.
              This teaching didn't mean I was supposed to never "act out" again, but it
              did mean I was supposed to have the intent and will to not do it again.

              Even (and maybe especially) when we are in our sinful, fallen state, I
              know God wants us to turn to Him and seek His truth. I was avoiding Him
              completely. No prayer, no Bible study and no fellowship with other
              believers. How
              can a sick person get better when they won't go near a Physician?

              "When Jesus heard that, He said to them, "Those who are well have no need
              of a physician, but those who are sick."
              (Matthew 9:12 NKJV)

              Please keep posting and hopefully our struggle will be resolved.

              Blessings,
              Alan

              --- In _exexgayministry@ exexgayminisexe_
              (mailto:exexgaymini(mailto:exexgaymini<WBR>stry@ yahoogroups.
              com<VeritatisAmor@ Ver> wrote:
              >
              > A very good friend of mine let me to this site. He told me that my
              assistance could benefit this site. I myself struggle a great deal with
              personal
              orientation. I have for years sought out support and assistance which was
              at times a blessing but others grief, hardships, and pain. I found my name
              to be the source of detraction both on the internet and clergy circles. I
              have a few clergymen in my area who view it their God given duty to cause
              me
              suffering Ironically, I feel there are just big closeted queens. Its like
              being a former drug addict, alcholic, etc. You change one addiction for
              another.
              > I am blessed.I live one day at a time. I hope to hear from you all and
              help in any way that I can. I am blessed to have the friend that pointed
              me
              out to this group. As we are all seeking to be happy and whole. Hugs from
              the Delta and to all my brothers in the deep south!
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Joiner Rex
              Thanks Chuck. On that note we certainly can agree - God is love. Thanks. ________________________________ From: MrChuk@aol.com To:
              Message 6 of 7 , Nov 9, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Thanks Chuck. On that note we certainly can agree - God is love. Thanks.




                ________________________________
                From: "MrChuk@..." <MrChuk@...>
                To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com
                Cc: rexjoiner@...
                Sent: Monday, November 9, 2009 2:02:21 PM
                Subject: Re: [ExExGayMinistry] Re: Greetings and Blessings to all!


                Jerry,
                It will never be my intent to persuade/argue with you one way or the other
                about the Scriptures. I offer resources with the hope that they will help
                you find your own peace/answers.

                My journey o peace took me all my adult life. I've come to the
                conclusion in my old age... regardless of what we all "think" about the Bible, God,
                Jesus, etc.... if one can accept the bottom line.. that "GOD IS LOVE"...
                then all the rest are just moot points for arguments sake. And, I've learned
                to trust and have faith that regardless of it all, God loves me and will
                take care of me in the end. Takes away a lot of pressure for sure.

                I've attended Bob Jones University, graduated from a Baptist College and
                been involved in conservative/ fundamentalism most of my life and I've been
                taught so much scripture interpretations that it now wears on my mind....
                I've just learned to "let go and let God" and for me, that has brought my
                peace.

                I hope you find yours.

                Hugz,
                Chuk


                In a message dated 11/8/2009 7:19:01 P.M. Central Standard Time,
                rexjoiner@yahoo. com writes:

                Thanks Chuck for the resources. But I'm still one of those on the fence on
                this issue. For example, whether the Bible ever mentions the word
                "homosexual" or any of its forms seems to be totally irrelevant to the discussion.
                And one person in his article says the law was given to us to prove we
                couldn't keep it - something like that - I don't remember the exact wording. But
                the Bible says, "The law was our school master to bring us onto Christ..."
                then goes on to say "we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Thanks Chuck
                for the resources. But I'm still one of those on the fence on this issue. For
                example, whether the Bible ever mentions the word "homosexual" or any of
                its forms seems to be totally irrelevant to the discussion. And one person
                in his article says the law was given

                Having said that, if indeed the Bible (the whole Bible, rightly-divided)
                is the Word of God, then I would just like to find out what it teaches, not
                try to say that just because the word "homosexual" doesn't appear in the
                Bible, this simply means that God was never talking about sexual acts between
                people who loved each other whenever he talked about prohibited sexual
                acts. And just to explain it all away by saying it only had to do with temple
                prostitution, nothing else. By that definition, it would perfectly ok with
                God if unmarried people had sexual relations with other unmarried people,
                as long as they are both willing partners, even if they have 100 partners
                before they get married. But once they are married, they are bound only to
                each other. Is that what some of these people believe?

                Trying to understand,

                Jerry in Michigan

                As a gay man, I'd love to embrace that part of me. But so far the
                arguments are very far-fetched and puny. You've got to come up with some things far
                more convincing than that, in my opinion.

                ____________ _________ _________ __
                From: "_MrChuk@aol. com_ (mailto:MrChuk@...) " <_MrChuk@aol. com_
                (mailto:MrChuk@...) >
                To: _exexgayministry@ exexgayminisexe_
                (mailto:exexgayministry@ yahoogroups. com)
                Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2009 1:24:12 AM
                Subject: Re: [ExExGayMinistry] Re: Greetings and Blessings to all!

                Some resources that have been helpful.
                Chuck

                _'Ex-Gay' Conversions_
                (_http://www.lionking_ (http://www.lionking/) .org/~kovu/
                bible/section10. html)
                _Conversion Therapy_ (_http://burr._ (http://burr./) kent.edu/ stories/m_
                praythegay. html)
                _Christian & Gay_ (_http://www.spiritua_ (http://www.spiritua/)
                lfruits.com/ homopages. html)
                _Homosexuality and The Bible_
                (_http://www.lionking _ (http://www.lionking /) .org/~kovu/ bible/toc.
                html)
                _Dispelling the Myths_
                (_http://www.gaysouth_ (http://www.gaysouth/) africa.org.
                za/homosexuality /dispel.asp)

                In a message dated 11/5/2009 10:51:57 A.M. Central Standard Time,
                ad4071@yahoo. com writes:

                Hello,

                I am a "newbie" here too, but I wanted to greet you and tell you I am
                looking forward to hearing from you.

                When you say you "struggle" this reminds me that this is something I have
                been thinking about for some time. If we are struggling, it seems like
                something is not quite right. Jesus Himself said His yoke is easy and His
                burden is light. (Matt. 11:30) That doesn't sound like a struggle to me.

                1 Timothy 6:12 talks about fighting the good fight of faith. So, if I am
                right, our "struggle" is only one of faith and God does the rest. So, when
                I
                did all the struggling, I think I was attempting to do something that was
                God's work in the first place.

                I am still not resolute in where all this gels, but I know my past beliefs
                of guilt, struggling and not being able to reconcile my same sex
                attraction with my faith, kept me away from God rather than trying to seek
                Him and
                His truth. There is so much I don't know and still don't have the answers
                to, but I know that any teaching that keeps me from seeking God, can't be
                right. I was taught that God would have nothing to do with me when I "act
                out"
                and am no-repentant of my acting out. This resulted in me completely
                shutting myself off from God, His Word and any fellowship with other
                believers.
                This teaching didn't mean I was supposed to never "act out" again, but it
                did mean I was supposed to have the intent and will to not do it again.

                Even (and maybe especially) when we are in our sinful, fallen state, I
                know God wants us to turn to Him and seek His truth. I was avoiding Him
                completely. No prayer, no Bible study and no fellowship with other
                believers. How
                can a sick person get better when they won't go near a Physician?

                "When Jesus heard that, He said to them, "Those who are well have no need
                of a physician, but those who are sick."
                (Matthew 9:12 NKJV)

                Please keep posting and hopefully our struggle will be resolved.

                Blessings,
                Alan

                --- In _exexgayministry@ exexgayminisexe_
                (mailto:exexgaymini (mailto:exexgaym ini<WBR>stry@ yahoogroups.
                com<VeritatisAmor@ Ver> wrote:
                >
                > A very good friend of mine let me to this site. He told me that my
                assistance could benefit this site. I myself struggle a great deal with
                personal
                orientation. I have for years sought out support and assistance which was
                at times a blessing but others grief, hardships, and pain. I found my name
                to be the source of detraction both on the internet and clergy circles. I
                have a few clergymen in my area who view it their God given duty to cause
                me
                suffering Ironically, I feel there are just big closeted queens. Its like
                being a former drug addict, alcholic, etc. You change one addiction for
                another.
                > I am blessed.I live one day at a time. I hope to hear from you all and
                help in any way that I can. I am blessed to have the friend that pointed
                me
                out to this group. As we are all seeking to be happy and whole. Hugs from
                the Delta and to all my brothers in the deep south!
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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