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Re: [ExExGayMinistry] DO YOU LOVE YOURSELF UNCONDITIONALLY

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  • MrChuk@aol.com
    May be helpful! _Fundamentalists Anonymous_ (http://www.geocities.com/church_of_hank/fundamentalists_anonymous.html) In a message dated 2/13/2007 12:36:10
    Message 1 of 19 , Feb 13, 2007
      May be helpful!

      _Fundamentalists Anonymous_
      (http://www.geocities.com/church_of_hank/fundamentalists_anonymous.html)


      In a message dated 2/13/2007 12:36:10 P.M. Central Standard Time,
      freestephsteph@... writes:




      <<<GLBT people need to get rid of that toxic waste dump that fundmentalism
      has dumped on them, it is unhealthy and unsound... Healthy spirituality is
      always postive and affirming, loving toward self and others... and yes, too many
      of us have been brainwashed, dumped on and told we are not ok.. that we have
      to change to fit in, get approval from others, which is BS. God's love is
      always unconditional , his grace is unconditional and he does not want any of
      us living a lie, or to suffer... sound far -fetched? It isn't...>>>

      You know that is the God that I know in my prayer closet. I stopped going to
      church because the God I got to know individually was different then the GOd
      I saw at church. Like way different., My girlfriend says that they serve a
      different God.

      If it sounds like I have wounds its because I have been in the church for
      the last 10 years, trying to be exgay. I feel wounded I really don't know what
      to do. I signed up for counseling, but I don't know if they are safe. I don't
      know if anyone is safe.

      steph

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Andrea Green <_greenakakay07@greenakak_
      (mailto:greenakakay07@...) >
      To: _exexgayministry@exexgayminisexe_
      (mailto:exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com)
      Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:30:57 PM
      Subject: Re: [ExExGayMinistry] DO YOU LOVE YOURSELF UNCONDITIONALLY

      GLBT people need to get rid of that toxic waste dump that fundmentalism has
      dumped on them, it is unhealthy and unsound... Healthy spirituality is always
      postive and affirming, loving toward self and others... and yes, too many of
      us have been brainwashed, dumped on and told we are not ok.. that we have to
      change to fit in, get approval from others, which is BS. God's love is
      always unconditional , his grace is unconditional and he does not want any of us
      living a lie, or to suffer... sound far -fetched? It isn't...

      stephanie anderson <freestephsteph@ yahoo.com> wrote: What are you talking
      about? You know? You say I should love my self and not hate my self. But then
      if you knew me you wouldn't love or accept me. You seem kinda hypercritical.
      Isn't hypercrisy a antithesis to love? You think I am going to hell now,
      because I don't always love myself. Your standards are so high to live up to.

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: greenakakay07 <greenakakay07@ yahoo.com>
      To: exexgayministry@ yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 11:02:49 PM
      Subject: [ExExGayMinistry] DO YOU LOVE YOURSELF UNCONDITIONALLY

      Let's look at my ccomments on the soul force.org forum and I will
      also include websites for dealing with this lack of love for
      yourself."Where in the bible does it say to hate yourself and attack
      and abuse yourself with guilt. When you do this you are denying God's
      grace and mercy and forgiveness for your life.. (and exempt yourself
      from his healing power I might add)Hate is the antithesis to love, it
      literally will destroy love and send it out of the picture. What was
      God's commandment? To hate thyself. No , to love your neighbor as
      yourself.. In 1 John it defines the children of the devil as he who
      hates his brother.. what is hate,ill will, malicious intent... why
      then do we have the same destructive tendacies toward ourselves? It
      is one reason we all need to work on our negative self image and
      redefine it." Destructive religion does not make for mentally and
      emotionally balanced people. Let's then strive to find a healthy
      spirituality that is affirming rather than debilitating and guilt
      ridden, that pummels people over the head and creates a sense of
      alienation from ourselves and God..and a sense of self despair and
      inner feelings of unworthiness. These negative feelings cause people
      to self destruct..and are not healthy or healing.
      _http://www.coping._ (http://www.coping./) org/innerhealing /shame.htm
      _http://www.coping._ (http://www.coping./) org/innerhealing /uncond.htm
      _http://www.spiritua_ (http://www.spiritua/) lsurvival. org/view/
      ?pageID=131725
      _http://www.spiritua_ (http://www.spiritua/) labuse.com/ dox/library. htm
      _http://www.nacronli_ (http://www.nacronli/) ne.com/dox/ library/images.
      shtml

      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
      ----------

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    • Andrea Green
      Stephanie I m going to include this website, to show you that there are people just like you who are Christian and who live happy fulfilled lives... I know
      Message 2 of 19 , Feb 14, 2007
        Stephanie I'm going to include this website, to show you that there are people just like you who are Christian and who live happy fulfilled lives... I know this is alot of information, but please be patient and read what she says about faith and other things..she empathizes what really matters to God..., I think this will help you affirm yourself as well, you might want to share it with your girlfriend too. Like I said it is somewhat long but if you read all of it I think you will understand alot more about what God really wills for you in your own life is not harm or torment but love and peace of mind..http://justspirit.blogspot.com/

        stephanie anderson <freestephsteph@...> wrote: <<<GLBT people need to get rid of that toxic waste dump that fundmentalism has dumped on them, it is unhealthy and unsound... Healthy spirituality is always postive and affirming, loving toward self and others... and yes, too many of us have been brainwashed, dumped on and told we are not ok.. that we have to change to fit in, get approval from others, which is BS. God's love is always unconditional , his grace is unconditional and he does not want any of us living a lie, or to suffer... sound far -fetched? It isn't...>>>

        You know that is the God that I know in my prayer closet. I stopped going to church because the God I got to know individually was different then the GOd I saw at church. Like way different., My girlfriend says that they serve a different God.

        If it sounds like I have wounds its because I have been in the church for the last 10 years, trying to be exgay. I feel wounded I really don't know what to do. I signed up for counseling, but I don't know if they are safe. I don't know if anyone is safe.

        steph

        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Andrea Green <greenakakay07@...>
        To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:30:57 PM
        Subject: Re: [ExExGayMinistry] DO YOU LOVE YOURSELF UNCONDITIONALLY

        GLBT people need to get rid of that toxic waste dump that fundmentalism has dumped on them, it is unhealthy and unsound... Healthy spirituality is always postive and affirming, loving toward self and others... and yes, too many of us have been brainwashed, dumped on and told we are not ok.. that we have to change to fit in, get approval from others, which is BS. God's love is always unconditional , his grace is unconditional and he does not want any of us living a lie, or to suffer... sound far -fetched? It isn't...

        stephanie anderson <freestephsteph@ yahoo.com> wrote: What are you talking about? You know? You say I should love my self and not hate my self. But then if you knew me you wouldn't love or accept me. You seem kinda hypercritical. Isn't hypercrisy a antithesis to love? You think I am going to hell now, because I don't always love myself. Your standards are so high to live up to.

        ----- Original Message ----
        From: greenakakay07 <greenakakay07@ yahoo.com>
        To: exexgayministry@ yahoogroups. com
        Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 11:02:49 PM
        Subject: [ExExGayMinistry] DO YOU LOVE YOURSELF UNCONDITIONALLY

        Let's look at my ccomments on the soul force.org forum and I will
        also include websites for dealing with this lack of love for
        yourself."Where in the bible does it say to hate yourself and attack
        and abuse yourself with guilt. When you do this you are denying God's
        grace and mercy and forgiveness for your life.. (and exempt yourself
        from his healing power I might add)Hate is the antithesis to love, it
        literally will destroy love and send it out of the picture. What was
        God's commandment? To hate thyself. No , to love your neighbor as
        yourself.. In 1 John it defines the children of the devil as he who
        hates his brother.. what is hate,ill will, malicious intent... why
        then do we have the same destructive tendacies toward ourselves? It
        is one reason we all need to work on our negative self image and
        redefine it." Destructive religion does not make for mentally and
        emotionally balanced people. Let's then strive to find a healthy
        spirituality that is affirming rather than debilitating and guilt
        ridden, that pummels people over the head and creates a sense of
        alienation from ourselves and God..and a sense of self despair and
        inner feelings of unworthiness. These negative feelings cause people
        to self destruct..and are not healthy or healing.
        http://www.coping. org/innerhealing /shame.htm
        http://www.coping. org/innerhealing /uncond.htm
        http://www.spiritua lsurvival. org/view/ ?pageID=131725
        http://www.spiritua labuse.com/ dox/library. htm
        http://www.nacronli ne.com/dox/ library/images. shtml

        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
        ----------

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        Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
        in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
        http://farechase. yahoo.com/ promo-generic- 14795097

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ------------ --------- --------- ---
        Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
        in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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      • Andrea Green
        http://www.soulforce.org/pdf/whatthebiblesays.pdf Andrea Green wrote: The God you know is a personal God... the one you
        Message 3 of 19 , Feb 14, 2007
          http://www.soulforce.org/pdf/whatthebiblesays.pdf

          Andrea Green <greenakakay07@...> wrote: The God you know is a personal God... the one you should know..he is always in the hearts and minds of men.(Paul writes this in Corinthians I believe.. I know the scripture , just have to remember exactly which verses) This is even biblical....God may be that still gentle voice who is talking to you...Remember that hotline I gave you ,TREVOR, they deal exclusively with gay,lesbian,transgender, bisexual people... Now as far as I know they should not give you any problem.. and tell them you want a counselor who will understand your issues, if that turns out to be a wrong road.. I will try to find other resources for you... the first minute a counselor starts in on you about your sexuality..WALK AWAY....There are other alternatives and resources and counselors available to you, even if it means seeing a gay counselor...If there are problems about money and affording counseling , you can let them know, if they can't help
          you, I will do what I can to find something for
          you..Your Girlfriend is right, if they have to define what God is to you, THEY don't know GOD, they may know a god in a book , but not necessarily have a personal or intuitive relationship with God. They do not know God because God is love..scripture in the bible can only lead us to some understanding of God and may not have all the answers...written by people over thousands of years ago,, does not have relevance many times in our lives and the world today, yes it can have... but not always. 1 John says God is love and he who dwells in love dwells in God and God in him..... God is a very personal issue.. but how do we define love? I think it is an individual matter. you can't put people in a script or a role and tell them how they should love or whom...

          stephanie anderson <freestephsteph@...> wrote: <<<GLBT people need to get rid of that toxic waste dump that fundmentalism has dumped on them, it is unhealthy and unsound... Healthy spirituality is always postive and affirming, loving toward self and others... and yes, too many of us have been brainwashed, dumped on and told we are not ok.. that we have to change to fit in, get approval from others, which is BS. God's love is always unconditional , his grace is unconditional and he does not want any of us living a lie, or to suffer... sound far -fetched? It isn't...>>>

          You know that is the God that I know in my prayer closet. I stopped going to church because the God I got to know individually was different then the GOd I saw at church. Like way different., My girlfriend says that they serve a different God.

          If it sounds like I have wounds its because I have been in the church for the last 10 years, trying to be exgay. I feel wounded I really don't know what to do. I signed up for counseling, but I don't know if they are safe. I don't know if anyone is safe.

          steph

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Andrea Green <greenakakay07@...>
          To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:30:57 PM
          Subject: Re: [ExExGayMinistry] DO YOU LOVE YOURSELF UNCONDITIONALLY

          GLBT people need to get rid of that toxic waste dump that fundmentalism has dumped on them, it is unhealthy and unsound... Healthy spirituality is always postive and affirming, loving toward self and others... and yes, too many of us have been brainwashed, dumped on and told we are not ok.. that we have to change to fit in, get approval from others, which is BS. God's love is always unconditional , his grace is unconditional and he does not want any of us living a lie, or to suffer... sound far -fetched? It isn't...

          stephanie anderson <freestephsteph@ yahoo.com> wrote: What are you talking about? You know? You say I should love my self and not hate my self. But then if you knew me you wouldn't love or accept me. You seem kinda hypercritical. Isn't hypercrisy a antithesis to love? You think I am going to hell now, because I don't always love myself. Your standards are so high to live up to.

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: greenakakay07 <greenakakay07@ yahoo.com>
          To: exexgayministry@ yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 11:02:49 PM
          Subject: [ExExGayMinistry] DO YOU LOVE YOURSELF UNCONDITIONALLY

          Let's look at my ccomments on the soul force.org forum and I will
          also include websites for dealing with this lack of love for
          yourself."Where in the bible does it say to hate yourself and attack
          and abuse yourself with guilt. When you do this you are denying God's
          grace and mercy and forgiveness for your life.. (and exempt yourself
          from his healing power I might add)Hate is the antithesis to love, it
          literally will destroy love and send it out of the picture. What was
          God's commandment? To hate thyself. No , to love your neighbor as
          yourself.. In 1 John it defines the children of the devil as he who
          hates his brother.. what is hate,ill will, malicious intent... why
          then do we have the same destructive tendacies toward ourselves? It
          is one reason we all need to work on our negative self image and
          redefine it." Destructive religion does not make for mentally and
          emotionally balanced people. Let's then strive to find a healthy
          spirituality that is affirming rather than debilitating and guilt
          ridden, that pummels people over the head and creates a sense of
          alienation from ourselves and God..and a sense of self despair and
          inner feelings of unworthiness. These negative feelings cause people
          to self destruct..and are not healthy or healing.
          http://www.coping. org/innerhealing /shame.htm
          http://www.coping. org/innerhealing /uncond.htm
          http://www.spiritua lsurvival. org/view/ ?pageID=131725
          http://www.spiritua labuse.com/ dox/library. htm
          http://www.nacronli ne.com/dox/ library/images. shtml

          ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
          ----------

          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
          in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
          http://farechase. yahoo.com/ promo-generic- 14795097

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          ------------ --------- --------- ---
          Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
          in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          __________________________________________________________
          8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
          with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
          http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          ---------------------------------
          We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
          (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

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          ---------------------------------
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        • stephanie anderson
          What is this group you are talking about? I am not intersted in soulforce, because my girlfriend is on it and I don t wanna steal her thing. I have made an
          Message 4 of 19 , Feb 14, 2007
            What is this group you are talking about? I am not intersted in soulforce, because my girlfriend is on it and I don't wanna steal her thing.
            I have made an appointment to see a counselor next week, I hope they are safe, they have a sticker that has a LGBT rainbow on it and says SAFE. But you know everyone says they are safe. I have just meet a lot of people in my life who are all big talk.

            Its hard not opening up to my mom, because she has been the closest to me in my life. She still thinks I am exgay, and that me and amy are living together like "roomates" or "bestfriends". I hope she has an idea. I wish she knew. My mom is born against and spiritfilled, shes a good person. Although amy saysI love her so much and I over look her weaknesses. I don't know.... Everyone has weaknesses.

            Secretes hurt, and it hurts keeping them from the ones you love most. I told amy last night that I don't believe in lieing. This issue came up because some how I sometimes sense that we both feel that lieing is ok because it protects us from this cruel world. Like we justify whether it is right or wrong based on the outcomes it gives us. But I was pondering on this with her last night, and I said, I don't believe in lieing because people use lieing to protect themselves because they don't believe the truth will protect themselves. I don't trust the truth to protect me because I trust in my false religious image to protect me from others, but it isolates me. I feel suffocated, Jesus said the truth will set you free, he never said a lie, he never said protray this false image out at others. I wonder if it is living in secrete that keeps us in bondage? I just desire to have a place that I can be a couple with amy and be safe.

            I hate this false religious image that I protray... Its this image that I shoot out at others that says "I am not like that" Then I get confused... What if I am really not like that.? What if I am just confused about my sexuality, and because I have been confused about it, then I am not gay. But just confused.

            My christian faith is most important to me, but I think I would rather first be known as gay then a christian. Because the label"Christian" is closely lilnked to bigotry, I don't wanna come acrossed as not safe. I first wanna be safe to ME. BUT like I said I would rather be known as gay, i would rather be know as the people that soceity rejects then those people who think they are better then everyone else. But still I protray that christian label so easily, and with such pride. I just use it to protect my self. I think in order to say I am gay, I have to give up how I use the christian label, I have to use it a different way. My faith isn't dependent on what others think of me. How can we get to a place where we completely don't care what others think.

            But then I think... If I had a choice, and nobody had their input in my decision about if I should be with a man or a women. I would choose a women. I often hear people says that they never "chose" to be gay. Which I sometimes think that maybe there isn't a chose and that it is genetic, but if soceity is accepting of diverse sexual orientations then whether it was a choice or not wouldn't even be mentioned. We don't wanna be gay, because we wanna be what everyone thinks is "acceptable". I don't wanna be ashamed of myself. Even though it might not be a chose, I wouldn't chose it else wise.

            Last night Amy was having a hard time, and asked me to pray for her (yes we still pray together and worship), and I asked he if she is still talking to God, and she said, "no He is angry at me and won't talk to me," and I was like, "where did you get that conclusion?" and she said, "We'll he thinks I am going to hell." and I said, "why do you think that," and she couldn't give me an explaination. I have gone through this before too, and have been lately. But I have had times where I have stopped myself and realized that I am not even relying on what the scriptures say about whether God condemns me. It really has to do with all the condmenation that I have heard about being gay that causes me to internalize that God is going to send me to hell.

            I kept asking her why she thought that and finally she said, "because my mom says so." Their condemnation hurts. The book of Romans has nothing to do about homosexuality or condemning homosexuality. But their voices are so loud, especially when your in the middle of the bible belt, and when you have just transferred at of Oral Roberts Universit that you have spent the last three years at. Its loud. Roman 1 has no mention of godly same-sex love, but condemns ungodly sex between two peopole of the same sex. 1 corinthain 6:9 wording of homosexual isn't even there in the greek, and plus the word homosexual was not around until the 1900 century, so many their cultural definition of homosexuality is quite different then ours.

            In all honesty my conscious is clear, I do not feel guilty for being with Amy, but in my mind I believe its wrong, but there is another part of me that knows it isn't. Last night me and amy were talking about this. And I was like... You know if it is not wrong then I want to completely believe it isn't. And she talked about how it isn't easy to get freed of all the homophobia in our selves. Its like there is this trap in my mind, like I am not willing to let God that God condemns me, because if I believe he doesn't then I will never repent, and have strong STRONG images in my mind of hell.

            A lot of times when it comes down to it, what we internalize as right and wrong, often God is left out of the picture, it isn't even really what the bible says or God says, but it is about what "others" say. It is usually other peoples input that molds how we see right and wrong. This sucks.

            I read this book on hell about some girls "revelation of hell" and she went there and there was this lesbian there crying out that she had loved a women more then God and how that sent her to hell. It FREAKed me out! The book was vivid, has anyone read it, it is called Divine revelation of hell.

            Anyways I am a strong believer in hell, because Jesus talked about it more then any one else. But if he was so concerned about GAY people going to hell why did he never address it to him. Is He stupid? Yet !! Everytime he addressed hell it was usually towards the hyprcrites who didn't believe in him.

            Its like no logical sense when you think about .... what we believe about homosexuality... It just so pushed on us, this whole condemnation thing. Have I been brain washed?
            steph

            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Andrea Green <greenakakay07@...>
            To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 11:48:36 PM
            Subject: Re: [ExExGayMinistry] DO YOU LOVE YOURSELF UNCONDITIONALLY













            Stephanie, I've already talked to people in my group saying you are having some difficulty and they want you to join the group.. Many have expressed that they want to talk to you and get to know you, perhaps your GF would like to join as well. here is the website that you click on to join. Susie said you are welcome to join the group... Many of these women can identify with you, most are in their twenties... but age really does not matter....lesbian- friendships- around-the- corner@yahoogrou ps.com What I am thinking is you feel you can't talk to your mom, maybe you don't feel she'll understand,right now I would say ,only guessing that you feel you can't really talk about this issue with her.. That's ok... Right now you need to focus on getting stronger and need people who will support you... if you don't want to talk to your mom for whatever reasons, they may be good ones... When you feel you are ready and can deal with her reactions, is up to you... it
            may not be for

            awhile and that is ok... You need time to heal emotionally from the feelings you are having about yourself, and unfortunately some parents will not be supportive or very understanding. I don't know your mom personally.. but like I said open up to people you can trust, like your girl friend or friends.. she seems to be providing you with the emotional support you need... and I don't see any harm it would do in talking to her.. When I was growing up there were many things I felt I could never talk to my parents about...unfortunate ly I did not have alot of support... I had friends but really didn't tell them alot , I was too closed in and isolated... this is something you shouldn't have to go through.. sometimes talking to people your age seems the best bet because alot of times they are in the same boat...



            stephanie anderson <freestephsteph@ yahoo.com> wrote: <<<You aren't wrong .they are.>>



            That is what my girlfriend is always saying. Its like no matter what we do, how sweet we are, how much we acheive, or how pretty we are its like these people still don't accept us.



            It feels good to hear it from someone else. I am thankful for her, its getting to a place that I just really need to open up to someone else, but it feels like everyone is a wolf.



            ----- Original Message ----

            From: Andrea Green <greenakakay07@ yahoo.com>

            To: exexgayministry@ yahoogroups. com

            Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:23:08 PM

            Subject: Re: [ExExGayMinistry] DO YOU LOVE YOURSELF UNCONDITIONALLY



            No not going to hell... , but many of us have suffered too much because of unhealthy religion and society telling us we are supposed to be other than we are.. Call it toxic religion.. You aren't wrong .they are.



            stephanie anderson <freestephsteph@ yahoo.com> wrote: What are you talking about? You know? You say I should love my self and not hate my self. But then if you knew me you wouldn't love or accept me. You seem kinda hypercritical. Isn't hypercrisy a antithesis to love? You think I am going to hell now, because I don't always love myself. Your standards are so high to live up to.



            ----- Original Message ----

            From: greenakakay07 <greenakakay07@ yahoo.com>

            To: exexgayministry@ yahoogroups. com

            Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 11:02:49 PM

            Subject: [ExExGayMinistry] DO YOU LOVE YOURSELF UNCONDITIONALLY



            Let's look at my ccomments on the soul force.org forum and I will

            also include websites for dealing with this lack of love for

            yourself."Where in the bible does it say to hate yourself and attack

            and abuse yourself with guilt. When you do this you are denying God's

            grace and mercy and forgiveness for your life.. (and exempt yourself

            from his healing power I might add)Hate is the antithesis to love, it

            literally will destroy love and send it out of the picture. What was

            God's commandment? To hate thyself. No , to love your neighbor as

            yourself.. In 1 John it defines the children of the devil as he who

            hates his brother.. what is hate,ill will, malicious intent... why

            then do we have the same destructive tendacies toward ourselves? It

            is one reason we all need to work on our negative self image and

            redefine it." Destructive religion does not make for mentally and

            emotionally balanced people. Let's then strive to find a healthy

            spirituality that is affirming rather than debilitating and guilt

            ridden, that pummels people over the head and creates a sense of

            alienation from ourselves and God..and a sense of self despair and

            inner feelings of unworthiness. These negative feelings cause people

            to self destruct..and are not healthy or healing.

            http://www.coping. org/innerhealing /shame.htm

            http://www.coping. org/innerhealing /uncond.htm

            http://www.spiritua lsurvival. org/view/ ?pageID=131725

            http://www.spiritua labuse.com/ dox/library. htm

            http://www.nacronli ne.com/dox/ library/images. shtml



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          • stephanie anderson
            Thank you, you seem kind ... From: Andrea Green To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 4:21:01 AM
            Message 5 of 19 , Feb 14, 2007
              Thank you, you seem kind

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Andrea Green <greenakakay07@...>
              To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 4:21:01 AM
              Subject: Re: [ExExGayMinistry] DO YOU LOVE YOURSELF UNCONDITIONALLY













              Stephanie I'm going to include this website, to show you that there are people just like you who are Christian and who live happy fulfilled lives... I know this is alot of information, but please be patient and read what she says about faith and other things..she empathizes what really matters to God..., I think this will help you affirm yourself as well, you might want to share it with your girlfriend too. Like I said it is somewhat long but if you read all of it I think you will understand alot more about what God really wills for you in your own life is not harm or torment but love and peace of mind..http:/ /justspirit. blogspot. com/



              stephanie anderson <freestephsteph@ yahoo.com> wrote: <<<GLBT people need to get rid of that toxic waste dump that fundmentalism has dumped on them, it is unhealthy and unsound... Healthy spirituality is always postive and affirming, loving toward self and others... and yes, too many of us have been brainwashed, dumped on and told we are not ok.. that we have to change to fit in, get approval from others, which is BS. God's love is always unconditional , his grace is unconditional and he does not want any of us living a lie, or to suffer... sound far -fetched? It isn't...>>>



              You know that is the God that I know in my prayer closet. I stopped going to church because the God I got to know individually was different then the GOd I saw at church. Like way different., My girlfriend says that they serve a different God.



              If it sounds like I have wounds its because I have been in the church for the last 10 years, trying to be exgay. I feel wounded I really don't know what to do. I signed up for counseling, but I don't know if they are safe. I don't know if anyone is safe.



              steph



              ----- Original Message ----

              From: Andrea Green <greenakakay07@ yahoo.com>

              To: exexgayministry@ yahoogroups. com

              Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:30:57 PM

              Subject: Re: [ExExGayMinistry] DO YOU LOVE YOURSELF UNCONDITIONALLY



              GLBT people need to get rid of that toxic waste dump that fundmentalism has dumped on them, it is unhealthy and unsound... Healthy spirituality is always postive and affirming, loving toward self and others... and yes, too many of us have been brainwashed, dumped on and told we are not ok.. that we have to change to fit in, get approval from others, which is BS. God's love is always unconditional , his grace is unconditional and he does not want any of us living a lie, or to suffer... sound far -fetched? It isn't...



              stephanie anderson <freestephsteph@ yahoo.com> wrote: What are you talking about? You know? You say I should love my self and not hate my self. But then if you knew me you wouldn't love or accept me. You seem kinda hypercritical. Isn't hypercrisy a antithesis to love? You think I am going to hell now, because I don't always love myself. Your standards are so high to live up to.



              ----- Original Message ----

              From: greenakakay07 <greenakakay07@ yahoo.com>

              To: exexgayministry@ yahoogroups. com

              Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 11:02:49 PM

              Subject: [ExExGayMinistry] DO YOU LOVE YOURSELF UNCONDITIONALLY



              Let's look at my ccomments on the soul force.org forum and I will

              also include websites for dealing with this lack of love for

              yourself."Where in the bible does it say to hate yourself and attack

              and abuse yourself with guilt. When you do this you are denying God's

              grace and mercy and forgiveness for your life.. (and exempt yourself

              from his healing power I might add)Hate is the antithesis to love, it

              literally will destroy love and send it out of the picture. What was

              God's commandment? To hate thyself. No , to love your neighbor as

              yourself.. In 1 John it defines the children of the devil as he who

              hates his brother.. what is hate,ill will, malicious intent... why

              then do we have the same destructive tendacies toward ourselves? It

              is one reason we all need to work on our negative self image and

              redefine it." Destructive religion does not make for mentally and

              emotionally balanced people. Let's then strive to find a healthy

              spirituality that is affirming rather than debilitating and guilt

              ridden, that pummels people over the head and creates a sense of

              alienation from ourselves and God..and a sense of self despair and

              inner feelings of unworthiness. These negative feelings cause people

              to self destruct..and are not healthy or healing.

              http://www.coping. org/innerhealing /shame.htm

              http://www.coping. org/innerhealing /uncond.htm

              http://www.spiritua lsurvival. org/view/ ?pageID=131725

              http://www.spiritua labuse.com/ dox/library. htm

              http://www.nacronli ne.com/dox/ library/images. shtml



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            • Andrea Green
              Stephanie I m about to show you why you are not worthy of condemnation , I will use biblical scripture and comments from the Course in Miracles that
              Message 6 of 19 , Feb 14, 2007
                Stephanie I'm about to show you why you are not worthy of condemnation , I will use biblical scripture and comments from the Course in Miracles that co-relate...The course explains that condemnation is the judgment of one mind of another as unworthy of love and deserving of punnishment,, Biblical scripture. James in the bible 4:11 Don't speak evil of each other, my dear brothers and sisters.If you criticize each other and condemn each other, then you are criticizing and condemning God's law(God's law of love.. )1 John..4:16 -19 God is love and all who live in love live in God and God lives in them. And as we live in God our love grows more perfect. So we will not be afraid on the day of judgment, but we can face Him with confidence because we are like Christ here in this world. Such love has no fear because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of judgment and shows his love has not been perfected in us. We love each other as a result of Him
                loving us first. another in 1John..3:20 beloved if our heart condemns us God is greater than our heart and knows all things, beloved if our heart does not condemn us we have confidence in God.......And we will receive whatever we request of him because we obey Him..and goes on to say that His commandment is that we love one another, just as He commanded us. What is God's law then that we love others as ourselves as Jesus said.. that when we judge ourselves and others we are not truly following God's commandment... So when you go to a church that teaches the opposite of Love and is teaching fear and condemnation... they are not teaching God's word.... God's love for you is absolute and unconditional... What did Christ say, I've come into the world, not to condemn it but to save it...

                stephanie anderson <freestephsteph@...> wrote: What is this group you are talking about? I am not intersted in soulforce, because my girlfriend is on it and I don't wanna steal her thing.
                I have made an appointment to see a counselor next week, I hope they are safe, they have a sticker that has a LGBT rainbow on it and says SAFE. But you know everyone says they are safe. I have just meet a lot of people in my life who are all big talk.

                Its hard not opening up to my mom, because she has been the closest to me in my life. She still thinks I am exgay, and that me and amy are living together like "roomates" or "bestfriends". I hope she has an idea. I wish she knew. My mom is born against and spiritfilled, shes a good person. Although amy saysI love her so much and I over look her weaknesses. I don't know.... Everyone has weaknesses.

                Secretes hurt, and it hurts keeping them from the ones you love most. I told amy last night that I don't believe in lieing. This issue came up because some how I sometimes sense that we both feel that lieing is ok because it protects us from this cruel world. Like we justify whether it is right or wrong based on the outcomes it gives us. But I was pondering on this with her last night, and I said, I don't believe in lieing because people use lieing to protect themselves because they don't believe the truth will protect themselves. I don't trust the truth to protect me because I trust in my false religious image to protect me from others, but it isolates me. I feel suffocated, Jesus said the truth will set you free, he never said a lie, he never said protray this false image out at others. I wonder if it is living in secrete that keeps us in bondage? I just desire to have a place that I can be a couple with amy and be safe.

                I hate this false religious image that I protray... Its this image that I shoot out at others that says "I am not like that" Then I get confused... What if I am really not like that.? What if I am just confused about my sexuality, and because I have been confused about it, then I am not gay. But just confused.

                My christian faith is most important to me, but I think I would rather first be known as gay then a christian. Because the label"Christian" is closely lilnked to bigotry, I don't wanna come acrossed as not safe. I first wanna be safe to ME. BUT like I said I would rather be known as gay, i would rather be know as the people that soceity rejects then those people who think they are better then everyone else. But still I protray that christian label so easily, and with such pride. I just use it to protect my self. I think in order to say I am gay, I have to give up how I use the christian label, I have to use it a different way. My faith isn't dependent on what others think of me. How can we get to a place where we completely don't care what others think.

                But then I think... If I had a choice, and nobody had their input in my decision about if I should be with a man or a women. I would choose a women. I often hear people says that they never "chose" to be gay. Which I sometimes think that maybe there isn't a chose and that it is genetic, but if soceity is accepting of diverse sexual orientations then whether it was a choice or not wouldn't even be mentioned. We don't wanna be gay, because we wanna be what everyone thinks is "acceptable". I don't wanna be ashamed of myself. Even though it might not be a chose, I wouldn't chose it else wise.

                Last night Amy was having a hard time, and asked me to pray for her (yes we still pray together and worship), and I asked he if she is still talking to God, and she said, "no He is angry at me and won't talk to me," and I was like, "where did you get that conclusion?" and she said, "We'll he thinks I am going to hell." and I said, "why do you think that," and she couldn't give me an explaination. I have gone through this before too, and have been lately. But I have had times where I have stopped myself and realized that I am not even relying on what the scriptures say about whether God condemns me. It really has to do with all the condmenation that I have heard about being gay that causes me to internalize that God is going to send me to hell.

                I kept asking her why she thought that and finally she said, "because my mom says so." Their condemnation hurts. The book of Romans has nothing to do about homosexuality or condemning homosexuality. But their voices are so loud, especially when your in the middle of the bible belt, and when you have just transferred at of Oral Roberts Universit that you have spent the last three years at. Its loud. Roman 1 has no mention of godly same-sex love, but condemns ungodly sex between two peopole of the same sex. 1 corinthain 6:9 wording of homosexual isn't even there in the greek, and plus the word homosexual was not around until the 1900 century, so many their cultural definition of homosexuality is quite different then ours.

                In all honesty my conscious is clear, I do not feel guilty for being with Amy, but in my mind I believe its wrong, but there is another part of me that knows it isn't. Last night me and amy were talking about this. And I was like... You know if it is not wrong then I want to completely believe it isn't. And she talked about how it isn't easy to get freed of all the homophobia in our selves. Its like there is this trap in my mind, like I am not willing to let God that God condemns me, because if I believe he doesn't then I will never repent, and have strong STRONG images in my mind of hell.

                A lot of times when it comes down to it, what we internalize as right and wrong, often God is left out of the picture, it isn't even really what the bible says or God says, but it is about what "others" say. It is usually other peoples input that molds how we see right and wrong. This sucks.

                I read this book on hell about some girls "revelation of hell" and she went there and there was this lesbian there crying out that she had loved a women more then God and how that sent her to hell. It FREAKed me out! The book was vivid, has anyone read it, it is called Divine revelation of hell.

                Anyways I am a strong believer in hell, because Jesus talked about it more then any one else. But if he was so concerned about GAY people going to hell why did he never address it to him. Is He stupid? Yet !! Everytime he addressed hell it was usually towards the hyprcrites who didn't believe in him.

                Its like no logical sense when you think about .... what we believe about homosexuality... It just so pushed on us, this whole condemnation thing. Have I been brain washed?
                steph

                ----- Original Message ----
                From: Andrea Green <greenakakay07@...>
                To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 11:48:36 PM
                Subject: Re: [ExExGayMinistry] DO YOU LOVE YOURSELF UNCONDITIONALLY

                Stephanie, I've already talked to people in my group saying you are having some difficulty and they want you to join the group.. Many have expressed that they want to talk to you and get to know you, perhaps your GF would like to join as well. here is the website that you click on to join. Susie said you are welcome to join the group... Many of these women can identify with you, most are in their twenties... but age really does not matter....lesbian- friendships- around-the- corner@yahoogrou ps.com What I am thinking is you feel you can't talk to your mom, maybe you don't feel she'll understand,right now I would say ,only guessing that you feel you can't really talk about this issue with her.. That's ok... Right now you need to focus on getting stronger and need people who will support you... if you don't want to talk to your mom for whatever reasons, they may be good ones... When you feel you are ready and can deal with her reactions, is up to you... it
                may not be for

                awhile and that is ok... You need time to heal emotionally from the feelings you are having about yourself, and unfortunately some parents will not be supportive or very understanding. I don't know your mom personally.. but like I said open up to people you can trust, like your girl friend or friends.. she seems to be providing you with the emotional support you need... and I don't see any harm it would do in talking to her.. When I was growing up there were many things I felt I could never talk to my parents about...unfortunate ly I did not have alot of support... I had friends but really didn't tell them alot , I was too closed in and isolated... this is something you shouldn't have to go through.. sometimes talking to people your age seems the best bet because alot of times they are in the same boat...

                stephanie anderson <freestephsteph@ yahoo.com> wrote: <<<You aren't wrong .they are.>>

                That is what my girlfriend is always saying. Its like no matter what we do, how sweet we are, how much we acheive, or how pretty we are its like these people still don't accept us.

                It feels good to hear it from someone else. I am thankful for her, its getting to a place that I just really need to open up to someone else, but it feels like everyone is a wolf.

                ----- Original Message ----

                From: Andrea Green <greenakakay07@ yahoo.com>

                To: exexgayministry@ yahoogroups. com

                Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:23:08 PM

                Subject: Re: [ExExGayMinistry] DO YOU LOVE YOURSELF UNCONDITIONALLY

                No not going to hell... , but many of us have suffered too much because of unhealthy religion and society telling us we are supposed to be other than we are.. Call it toxic religion.. You aren't wrong .they are.

                stephanie anderson <freestephsteph@ yahoo.com> wrote: What are you talking about? You know? You say I should love my self and not hate my self. But then if you knew me you wouldn't love or accept me. You seem kinda hypercritical. Isn't hypercrisy a antithesis to love? You think I am going to hell now, because I don't always love myself. Your standards are so high to live up to.

                ----- Original Message ----

                From: greenakakay07 <greenakakay07@ yahoo.com>

                To: exexgayministry@ yahoogroups. com

                Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 11:02:49 PM

                Subject: [ExExGayMinistry] DO YOU LOVE YOURSELF UNCONDITIONALLY

                Let's look at my ccomments on the soul force.org forum and I will

                also include websites for dealing with this lack of love for

                yourself."Where in the bible does it say to hate yourself and attack

                and abuse yourself with guilt. When you do this you are denying God's

                grace and mercy and forgiveness for your life.. (and exempt yourself

                from his healing power I might add)Hate is the antithesis to love, it

                literally will destroy love and send it out of the picture. What was

                God's commandment? To hate thyself. No , to love your neighbor as

                yourself.. In 1 John it defines the children of the devil as he who

                hates his brother.. what is hate,ill will, malicious intent... why

                then do we have the same destructive tendacies toward ourselves? It

                is one reason we all need to work on our negative self image and

                redefine it." Destructive religion does not make for mentally and

                emotionally balanced people. Let's then strive to find a healthy

                spirituality that is affirming rather than debilitating and guilt

                ridden, that pummels people over the head and creates a sense of

                alienation from ourselves and God..and a sense of self despair and

                inner feelings of unworthiness. These negative feelings cause people

                to self destruct..and are not healthy or healing.

                http://www.coping. org/innerhealing /shame.htm

                http://www.coping. org/innerhealing /uncond.htm

                http://www.spiritua lsurvival. org/view/ ?pageID=131725

                http://www.spiritua labuse.com/ dox/library. htm

                http://www.nacronli ne.com/dox/ library/images. shtml

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