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From the Advocate, an EXCELLENT piece

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  • Korry Korry
    Ex-gay lies and God s love Like Kyle Rice ( I hate being gay ), this author grew up fundamentalist and gay. As a monitor of ex-gay ministries, he knows
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 11, 2006
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      "Ex-gay" lies and God's love
      Like Kyle Rice ("I hate being gay"), this author grew up fundamentalist and gay. As a monitor of "ex-gay" ministries, he knows their lies. As a Christian, he knows God's acceptance.

      By Timothy Kincaid

      An Advocate.com exclusive posted October 9, 2006





      It saddened me to read in The Advocate the article penned by Kyle Rice, the young man who hates being gay. Not only because he is so unhappy, but because it reminded me of where I came from.

      Like Kyle, I was raised conservative Christian. My father was, and still is, the pastor of a Pentecostal church. And like Kyle, I did not want to be gay.
      I�m not going to try and change Kyle�s mind about his faith. Nor am I going to try and convince him to embrace his sexual orientation or discourage his political activism. But I do want to caution Kyle about his decision to participate in an "ex-gay" ministry.

      I write at a Web site that is dedicated to monitoring these ministries and have become familiar with the methods, claims, and motivations of their movement. It is from this experience that I offer the following advice to Kyle:

      Kyle, when you have been told that you can "change," they do not mean that you will change your attractions. The change spoken about is only a change in how you identity yourself. You will be encouraged to view yourself no longer as gay but as a nongay person who suffers from same-sex attractions.

      The national leaders of the "ex-gay" movement don't often admit it to the press, but when asked they will acknowledge that they are still attracted to the same sex. Those few men who are married are not attracted to women in general but have developed an attraction to one specific woman, their wife. One leader recently told a workshop that he was unable to consummate his marriage during the first nine months.

      Although a few of the most visible "ex-gays" are married, for the vast majority "change" means living a life of celibacy. This may at first seem acceptable to you. But remember, Kyle, this is not only giving up sex; it also means you will never hold hands, kiss, or cuddle in front of a fire.

      And should you decide that you like a woman "enough" to marry her, please know that not only will you be giving her only a portion of yourself but you are interfering with her ability to meet a man who can love her the way she deserves to be loved. Also, nearly all "ex-gay" marriages end in divorce�including the unions of many who were at one time leaders in the movement and held up as testimony.
      I don�t know if it is possible to change one's orientation. But I do know that the overwhelming majority of people who go through these ministries never succeed in doing so. I know people who have tried for decades without success, and I don't know any who entered an "ex-gay" program as fully homosexual and are now fully heterosexual. If this happens at all, it is very rare, and you should understand that it�s really very unlikely that it will happen to you.

      And finally, Kyle, the "ex-gay" ministries will tell you things that are not true. Perhaps they don't mean to lie, but the things you will be told about "the homosexual lifestyle" are not at all reflective of the lives that gay people lead.

      You may be told that gays were all molested, will die by age 42, have hundreds of sex partners, don't establish lifelong relationships, or even that gays are not capable of love to the depth that straight people experience. Perhaps you will be told that gay people wish to destroy marriage, hate Christians, want to overthrow society, or seek to molest children. None of this is true. I think you know better, Kyle, but it can be very persuasive when all the people around you repeat these things.
      But the most damaging and difficult lie of all is that you cannot be gay and Christian.
      I don't say that because I think Christians should never try to change their orientation. I say that because the vast majority of people who do try will never experience such a change.

      And when they finally give up their long, futile struggle, they often believe that this means they must also abandon their faith. I pray that when you discover you have not become straight you will not then believe that you must give up your relationship with God.

      I know that you have a certain understanding of Scripture that tells you homosexuality is incompatible with God. But God also instructs us (in the King James translation) to "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." This means that we cannot rely solely on what our church has told us, or even on our understanding of the Bible, but we must listen to others and seek the truth from what different scholars have to say. And while some biblical scholars agree with the position your church teaches, others do not. I encourage you to read for yourself what they have to say.

      My final advice to you, Kyle, is this: However it was that you came to be gay, God made you this way. And whatever you feel about what God wants you to do about it, we do know one thing: God doesn�t want you to hate yourself. Nor does he want you to hate any part of the way he created you.
      I wish Kyle happiness and peace. I hope he finds a way to reconcile his attractions with his faith. But most of all, I will pray that he learns to love himself.

      I invite others of you who are people of faith to do the same.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Korry Korry
      Remember that fellow I mentioned, whose testimony is available at peoplecanchage as well as NARTH? But who was posting on gay groups and Craig s list that he
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 13, 2006
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        Remember that fellow I mentioned, whose testimony is
        available at peoplecanchage as well as NARTH? But who
        was posting on gay groups and Craig's list that he was
        looking for guys? It looks like he got around to
        telling Rich Wyler, who runs peoplecanchange, that he
        is no longer ex-gay. I had previously told Rich that
        one of his "success" stories was not, but I had not
        told him who, since I decided it would be better for
        the individual to take the initiative himself.

        Well, it looks like he did, and Rich Wyler wrote to
        thank me, saying the following: "Thank you for
        pushing him on this and for looking out for the
        integrity of
        People Can Change. I appreciate it."

        As if I gave a flying fuck about the "integrity" of
        peooplecanchange!

        This is what I wrote back:

        "No problem. However, I am pretty well indifferent to
        the 'integrity' of groups like PCC because I don't
        think they have very much to begin with. Talk about
        seeing things ass-backwards. I wasn't concerend in
        the least about preserving the 'integrity' of PCC but
        rather with the continuing damage done to uncertain
        gay men being misled by sites such as PCC and NARTH.
        You'd think that Tom's story would make an ex-gayist
        pause and think, but your response confirms to me that
        the movement is predicated on a cultish commitment to
        a creed that closes out any doubts, regardless of the
        data. Yeesh."

        K








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      • Norm
        Good catch, Korry! Wyler s response sounds intentionally smarmy. Even if all their ex- gay success stories failed, I doubt most ex-gay promoters would
        Message 3 of 4 , Oct 14, 2006
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          Good catch, Korry!

          Wyler's response sounds intentionally smarmy. Even if all their ex-
          gay success stories failed, I doubt most ex-gay promoters would
          reconsider their position. The ex-gay movement isn't based on
          success or effectiveness, but on religious fundamentalism.

          Norm!

          --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, Korry Korry
          <korrykorrykoan@...> wrote:
          >
          > Remember that fellow I mentioned, whose testimony is
          > available at peoplecanchage as well as NARTH? But who
          > was posting on gay groups and Craig's list that he was
          > looking for guys? It looks like he got around to
          > telling Rich Wyler, who runs peoplecanchange, that he
          > is no longer ex-gay. I had previously told Rich that
          > one of his "success" stories was not, but I had not
          > told him who, since I decided it would be better for
          > the individual to take the initiative himself.
          >
          > Well, it looks like he did, and Rich Wyler wrote to
          > thank me, saying the following: "Thank you for
          > pushing him on this and for looking out for the
          > integrity of
          > People Can Change. I appreciate it."
          >
          > As if I gave a flying fuck about the "integrity" of
          > peooplecanchange!
          >
          > This is what I wrote back:
          >
          > "No problem. However, I am pretty well indifferent to
          > the 'integrity' of groups like PCC because I don't
          > think they have very much to begin with. Talk about
          > seeing things ass-backwards. I wasn't concerend in
          > the least about preserving the 'integrity' of PCC but
          > rather with the continuing damage done to uncertain
          > gay men being misled by sites such as PCC and NARTH.
          > You'd think that Tom's story would make an ex-gayist
          > pause and think, but your response confirms to me that
          > the movement is predicated on a cultish commitment to
          > a creed that closes out any doubts, regardless of the
          > data. Yeesh."
          >
          > K
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________________________
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > http://mail.yahoo.com
          >
        • Tim
          Hi Korry, Thanks so much for this message. I appreciated reading it. Do you happen to have the link to the original article by Kyle? I d like to read that if
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 20, 2006
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            Hi Korry,

            Thanks so much for this message. I appreciated reading it. Do you happen
            to have the link to the original article by Kyle? I'd like to read that
            if possible.

            thx, tim [:)]


            --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, Korry Korry <korrykorrykoan@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > "Ex-gay" lies and God's love
            > Like Kyle Rice ("I hate being gay"), this author grew up
            fundamentalist and gay. As a monitor of "ex-gay" ministries, he knows
            their lies. As a Christian, he knows God's acceptance.
            >
            > By Timothy Kincaid
            >
            > An Advocate.com exclusive posted October 9, 2006
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > It saddened me to read in The Advocate the article penned by Kyle
            Rice, the young man who hates being gay. Not only because he is so
            unhappy, but because it reminded me of where I came from.
            >
            > Like Kyle, I was raised conservative Christian. My father was, and
            still is, the pastor of a Pentecostal church. And like Kyle, I did not
            want to be gay.
            > I'm not going to try and change Kyle's mind about his faith.
            Nor am I going to try and convince him to embrace his sexual orientation
            or discourage his political activism. But I do want to caution Kyle
            about his decision to participate in an "ex-gay" ministry.
            >
            > I write at a Web site that is dedicated to monitoring these ministries
            and have become familiar with the methods, claims, and motivations of
            their movement. It is from this experience that I offer the following
            advice to Kyle:
            >
            > Kyle, when you have been told that you can "change," they do not mean
            that you will change your attractions. The change spoken about is only a
            change in how you identity yourself. You will be encouraged to view
            yourself no longer as gay but as a nongay person who suffers from
            same-sex attractions.
            >
            > The national leaders of the "ex-gay" movement don't often admit it to
            the press, but when asked they will acknowledge that they are still
            attracted to the same sex. Those few men who are married are not
            attracted to women in general but have developed an attraction to one
            specific woman, their wife. One leader recently told a workshop that he
            was unable to consummate his marriage during the first nine months.
            >
            > Although a few of the most visible "ex-gays" are married, for the vast
            majority "change" means living a life of celibacy. This may at first
            seem acceptable to you. But remember, Kyle, this is not only giving up
            sex; it also means you will never hold hands, kiss, or cuddle in front
            of a fire.
            >
            > And should you decide that you like a woman "enough" to marry her,
            please know that not only will you be giving her only a portion of
            yourself but you are interfering with her ability to meet a man who can
            love her the way she deserves to be loved. Also, nearly all "ex-gay"
            marriages end in divorce—including the unions of many who were at
            one time leaders in the movement and held up as testimony.
            > I don't know if it is possible to change one's orientation. But I
            do know that the overwhelming majority of people who go through these
            ministries never succeed in doing so. I know people who have tried for
            decades without success, and I don't know any who entered an "ex-gay"
            program as fully homosexual and are now fully heterosexual. If this
            happens at all, it is very rare, and you should understand that it's
            really very unlikely that it will happen to you.
            >
            > And finally, Kyle, the "ex-gay" ministries will tell you things that
            are not true. Perhaps they don't mean to lie, but the things you will be
            told about "the homosexual lifestyle" are not at all reflective of the
            lives that gay people lead.
            >
            > You may be told that gays were all molested, will die by age 42, have
            hundreds of sex partners, don't establish lifelong relationships, or
            even that gays are not capable of love to the depth that straight people
            experience. Perhaps you will be told that gay people wish to destroy
            marriage, hate Christians, want to overthrow society, or seek to molest
            children. None of this is true. I think you know better, Kyle, but it
            can be very persuasive when all the people around you repeat these
            things.
            > But the most damaging and difficult lie of all is that you cannot be
            gay and Christian.
            > I don't say that because I think Christians should never try to change
            their orientation. I say that because the vast majority of people who do
            try will never experience such a change.
            >
            > And when they finally give up their long, futile struggle, they often
            believe that this means they must also abandon their faith. I pray that
            when you discover you have not become straight you will not then believe
            that you must give up your relationship with God.
            >
            > I know that you have a certain understanding of Scripture that tells
            you homosexuality is incompatible with God. But God also instructs us
            (in the King James translation) to "Study to shew thyself approved unto
            God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word
            of truth." This means that we cannot rely solely on what our church has
            told us, or even on our understanding of the Bible, but we must listen
            to others and seek the truth from what different scholars have to say.
            And while some biblical scholars agree with the position your church
            teaches, others do not. I encourage you to read for yourself what they
            have to say.
            >
            > My final advice to you, Kyle, is this: However it was that you came to
            be gay, God made you this way. And whatever you feel about what God
            wants you to do about it, we do know one thing: God doesn't want you
            to hate yourself. Nor does he want you to hate any part of the way he
            created you.
            > I wish Kyle happiness and peace. I hope he finds a way to reconcile
            his attractions with his faith. But most of all, I will pray that he
            learns to love himself.
            >
            > I invite others of you who are people of faith to do the same.
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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