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Re: May I clear the air and apologise to Bill

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  • Larry
    Hi Bill He is right you know. And he missed the boat. I made the mistake of opening a door, not sure why I did that. But you all sure got to know me better
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 28, 2006
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      Hi Bill

      He is right you know. And he missed the boat. I made the mistake of opening a door, not
      sure why I did that. But you all sure got to know me better for it.

      Bill added 1 and 1 and then asked to explain the answer he got, which was not two. As I
      hve explained to Norm, I am struggling with being defensive. Bill did not know that when
      he asked me to explain.

      I am very analytical, very defensive, have a BS in English, and should never have answered
      your Question Bill. But I did. You meant to ask me how I connected the spanking of men
      with being a person who claimed a ministry of Love, Acceptance, and Forgiveness.

      But that is not what you asked me. What you asked was how I connected two things in my
      life. And I tried to explain what I did not understand myself.

      I have no idea why men like to be spanked. Years ago I had a man ask me to spank him.
      He told me that I was a natural and asked me to do it on a regular basis. While I do not
      really like to hurt anyone, it made me feel good to be able to make them happy, I guess
      that is the best way to explain it. I did them a service and in return I got to see an naked
      man and rub my hands, well you know.

      I have always felt called to minister to my fellow man. For years I tried to get into
      Ordained ministry but for one reason or another failed. When I got into the internet I
      wrote my homepage under lgr943@... as my Hugs of Love Ministry. I told people
      that God could love them, even if they were gay. Then I found Reconcilled to Christ.

      To be honest with you, I had one time when a man who came for a spanking who was a
      Charismatic Christian and I have told that story. I had one other time, but for the most
      part, my ministry and spanking men never connected. Perhaps I misunderstood your
      question. I tried to explain how I felt that I could connect spanking men to the ministry.

      It could be done as a service for those who need to be spanked. But in reality, Spanking
      has nothing to do with my ministry. I know, I said it did. Well that was my defensiveness
      trying to rationalize.

      Now one other thing which you, Bill, did not bring up, but confession is good for the soul.
      With regard to "Legal age" and me. I like young men from the age of 19 - 21 and on up.
      18 is the legal age, so I will go down to that level. But even if the legal age would be
      lowered younger than that, I would not be interested in anyone under the age of 18. I
      really prefer a little more maturity that I find in the high school graduates, college
      students, age 19 and up.

      Now, if anyone has any other questions, I will try to be less defensive and try not to allow
      myself to feel backed into a corner. forgive me for my defensiveness. I believe it started
      when I was being brain washed to be ExGay. Anyone else find themself to be more
      defensive since getting out of ExGay and into ExExGay?

      Larry

      --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Prickett" <bill_times2@...> wrote:
      >
      > I do want to comment on this statement, since it involves me. (NOTE:
      > I've only included the section of the original comment that I'm
      > referencing)
      >
      > Larry, I can't see how my simple question made you feel "pushed up
      > against the wall." In my opinion, when you announce that you have
      > a "ministry" that involves spanking guys in the name of love and
      > acceptance, you have to expect people will ask questions. Surely
      > you weren't THAT surprised by the response, were you? That's all I
      > did in my initial inquiry--asked for an explanation. As I said
      > then, it's a disconnect to me.
      >
      > Bill Prickett
      > Dallas, TX
      >
      >
      > --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <dadheniso@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > If you go back to my original post of February 4th, I did not say
      > that spanking was part of my ministry.
      > >
      > > What I stated was that I spanked men and was a Daddy to hurting
      > men. I also said that I had a ministry of Love, Acceptance, and
      > Forgiveness. I mentioned three books and the Bible with regard to
      > my ministry.
      > >
      > > Bill Prickett welcomed me to the group and asked me to explain
      > the "spanking of men" concept and how it was consistent with "Love,
      > Acceptance, and Forgiveness"
      > >
      > > I made the mistake of trying to explain. But I felt like I had
      > been pushed up against the wall. So I did my best to explain what
      > had happened the couple times that very different parts of my life
      > had overlapped.
      > >
      > > Do any other members have different areas of their lives that seem
      > not to relate? At the moment I can not even think of any unless it
      > is the pipefitter who dances professionally. Or the smoker who
      > works for the Cancer Society.
      > >
      > > Once again, I want to make it clear. "Spanking" is NOT "my
      > ministy". I was asked (backed up against the wall) to explain how
      > it was "consistent" with "my Ministry" that I spanked men.
      > >
      > > Larry
      >
    • Norm
      Larry: ...forgive me for my defensiveness. I believe it started when I was being brain washed to be ExGay. Anyone else find themself to be more defensive
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 1 11:36 PM
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        Larry: "...forgive me for my defensiveness. I believe it started
        when I was being brain washed to be ExGay. Anyone else find
        themself to be more defensive since getting out of ExGay and into
        ExExGay?"

        I understand how one can be become defensive or sensitive in the
        aftermath of ex-gay treatment. In my experience, I first felt like
        a 'failure' when I decided to leave the ex-gay lifestyle. I was
        worried that I would become one of the stereotypical gays the ex-gay
        programs warn of. I was very sensitive to becoming vain,
        promiscious, femme, atheist, etc. So, I do understand how
        defensiveness can develop.

        I was only in an ex-gay program for two years, so I don't want to
        exaggerate my struggle compared to the members here who have spent
        larger chunks of their lives in these programs. However, I do think
        it took more than two years after leaving the ex-gay lifestyle to re-
        build my confidence and identity. It took time to identify and
        unlearn the ex-gay/fundamentalism messages I learned. Now I feel
        more confident in my identity and less defensive.

        In fairness, I think it is important to say that I don't trace all
        my struggles, self-doubts and weaknesses to my ex-gay experience.
        What made the ex-gay experience attractive were the half-truths, so
        I admit that there are pre-existing issues that are not related to
        the ex-gay struggle.

        Norm!
      • Larry
        Thank you Norm for sharing. Now I want to admit to something else and see if anyone else can relate to it. Not only did I become more defensive, I became more
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 2 10:11 PM
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          Thank you Norm for sharing.

          Now I want to admit to something else and see if anyone else can relate to it.

          Not only did I become more defensive, I became more deceitful. In some ways I never
          actually became ExGay. I pretended to be ExGay to fit in but I would sneak back to the
          Adult Book Stores. I always worried that I would get caught inside one when the church
          would picket them. Came close once but never actually happened. I laughed if off as
          being just as hypocritical as the rest of them. But my sex drive lessened after a while as I
          listened to their half truths.

          It took getting into the Reconcilled to Christ movement and an inclusive church to allow
          me to quit being ExGay and start being less deceitful. However the inclusive church was
          not ready for an ExGay who was ready to reveal himself as the Gay, God created me to be.
          They preferred that I not talk about being Gay and what I did as a Gay man. I hid in my
          deceitfulness.

          Anyone else know what I am talking about?
          Larry

          --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, "Norm" <nojam75@...> wrote:
          >
          > Larry: "...forgive me for my defensiveness. I believe it started
          > when I was being brain washed to be ExGay. Anyone else find
          > themself to be more defensive since getting out of ExGay and into
          > ExExGay?"
          >
          > I understand how one can be become defensive or sensitive in the
          > aftermath of ex-gay treatment. In my experience, I first felt like
          > a 'failure' when I decided to leave the ex-gay lifestyle. I was
          > worried that I would become one of the stereotypical gays the ex-gay
          > programs warn of. I was very sensitive to becoming vain,
          > promiscious, femme, atheist, etc. So, I do understand how
          > defensiveness can develop.
          >
          > I was only in an ex-gay program for two years, so I don't want to
          > exaggerate my struggle compared to the members here who have spent
          > larger chunks of their lives in these programs. However, I do think
          > it took more than two years after leaving the ex-gay lifestyle to re-
          > build my confidence and identity. It took time to identify and
          > unlearn the ex-gay/fundamentalism messages I learned. Now I feel
          > more confident in my identity and less defensive.
          >
          > In fairness, I think it is important to say that I don't trace all
          > my struggles, self-doubts and weaknesses to my ex-gay experience.
          > What made the ex-gay experience attractive were the half-truths, so
          > I admit that there are pre-existing issues that are not related to
          > the ex-gay struggle.
          >
          > Norm!
          >
        • Norm
          Larry, As ridiculous as it is, leading a secret gay life while in the ex- gay lifestyle is very common. In fact, the leader of the ex-gay group I was in was
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 3 12:09 AM
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            Larry,

            As ridiculous as it is, leading a secret gay life while in the ex-
            gay lifestyle is very common. In fact, the leader of the ex-gay
            group I was in was very frank that many ex-gay participants
            do "fall" MORE after becoming ex-gay.

            Even though I made a public commitment to my friends and family to
            be 'moral' and ex-gay, I found adult video stores to be almost
            irresistable while I was in an ex-gay program. On a couple of
            occassions, I even ran into fellow ex-gay participants at the porn
            stores (even after a ex-gay meeting). And in accountability groups,
            it was amazing to hear how regularly and often fellow
            participants "fell" during the week. That's why it is not that
            surprising to hear prominant ex-gay/anti-gay leaders like John
            Paulk, Michael Johnston, and Lonnie Latham, getting caught in the
            very situations that risk their careers, families, and reputation.

            One of the unintended consequences of ex-gay ideology is that porn
            stores, cruising areas, and gay bars are promoted as the ultimate
            battlegrounds to overcoming homosexuality. What better way of
            dealing with an extremely difficult internal conflict than "acting
            out". After I left the ex-gay lifestyle and began to accept my
            sexuality, I gradually lost that internal struggle. Adult video
            stores didn't seem that significant or an attractive taboo anymore.

            I'm sorry you've had problems finding an inclusive community. I do
            sympathize. Last spring on Portland's gay pride parade day, I was
            shocked to overhear members of the open and affirming church I
            attended say that they wish "they" would keep their personal lives
            private.

            I'm not sure what you mean by talking about what you do as gay man.
            I know when you introduced yourself to this group, your mentions of
            BDSM and spanking fetish did raise eyebrows in this group, including
            some heated discussions and misunderstandings. I may be culturally
            reserved, but I do think there are appropriate and inappropriate
            situations to discuss some topics. I wouldn't consider it deceitful
            to observe others' boundaries, but also shouldn't allow ourselves to
            be hidden away either. It's a tricky balancing act.

            Norm!

            --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <dadheniso@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Thank you Norm for sharing.
            >
            > Now I want to admit to something else and see if anyone else can
            relate to it.
            >
            > Not only did I become more defensive, I became more deceitful. In
            some ways I never
            > actually became ExGay. I pretended to be ExGay to fit in but I
            would sneak back to the
            > Adult Book Stores. I always worried that I would get caught
            inside one when the church
            > would picket them. Came close once but never actually happened.
            I laughed if off as
            > being just as hypocritical as the rest of them. But my sex drive
            lessened after a while as I
            > listened to their half truths.
            >
            > It took getting into the Reconcilled to Christ movement and an
            inclusive church to allow
            > me to quit being ExGay and start being less deceitful. However
            the inclusive church was
            > not ready for an ExGay who was ready to reveal himself as the Gay,
            God created me to be.
            > They preferred that I not talk about being Gay and what I did as a
            Gay man. I hid in my
            > deceitfulness.
            >
            > Anyone else know what I am talking about?
            > Larry
            >
          • MrChuk@aol.com
            In a message dated 3/3/2006 2:10:22 A.M. Central Standard Time, nojam75@yahoo.com writes:
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 3 12:18 PM
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              In a message dated 3/3/2006 2:10:22 A.M. Central Standard Time,
              nojam75@... writes:

              <<After I left the ex-gay lifestyle and began to accept my
              sexuality, I gradually lost that internal struggle. Adult video
              stores didn't seem that significant or an attractive taboo anymore. >>
              How very interesting! I stopped whoring around period after I was able to
              "accept myself" and find my peace with God and MYSELF about my sexuality.
              I used to frequent glory hole places for "relief".. and anonymous contacts.
              Chuck in Mississippi
            • Larry
              And I can identify with that. When I was trying to be ExGay, the bookstores drew me into them. When I became reconciled to Christ and learned that God could
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 4 12:25 AM
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                And I can identify with that. When I was trying to be ExGay, the bookstores drew me into
                them.

                When I became reconciled to Christ and learned that God could create Gay folk and even
                accept them as being gay, my life became normal, average. I slowly lost interest, even to
                the point where I no longer felt the need to go to the book stores.

                I was excited to find out how my gay sex life was changing. I needed other folk that I
                could talk to, to find out whether others felt this same way or whether I was unusual.

                When the inclusive church members basically said "we wish you would just live and not
                talk about it" I felt like I had to hide myself again, but I was not ready to hide.

                I was looking for someone I could compare notes with, someone who would say, yes or no,
                as to whether what I was finding was normal.

                I am tired of feeling deceitful and defensive. Any more know what I am talking about?
                Larry

                --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, MrChuk@... wrote:
                >
                >
                > In a message dated 3/3/2006 2:10:22 A.M. Central Standard Time,
                > nojam75@... writes:
                >
                > <<After I left the ex-gay lifestyle and began to accept my
                > sexuality, I gradually lost that internal struggle. Adult video
                > stores didn't seem that significant or an attractive taboo anymore. >>
                > How very interesting! I stopped whoring around period after I was able to
                > "accept myself" and find my peace with God and MYSELF about my sexuality.
                > I used to frequent glory hole places for "relief".. and anonymous contacts.
                > Chuck in Mississippi
                >
              • ccpr76
                ... able to accept myself and find my peace with God and MYSELF about my sexuality. I used to frequent glory hole places for relief .. and anonymous
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 6 11:08 PM
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                  --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <dadheniso@...> wrote:
                  > How very interesting! I stopped whoring around period after I was
                  able to "accept myself" and find my peace with God and MYSELF about
                  my sexuality. I used to frequent glory hole places for "relief".. and
                  anonymous contacts.

                  I have gone the extreme and have left the church. I too felt like my
                  church was expecting me to "live their way". Same sex attraction was
                  considered a sin, and so was opposite sex attraction towards a female
                  who was already in a relationship. Whilst it might be immoral to try
                  and "steal" the female, I considered it the "thought police" when it
                  is considered a sin to have lustful thoughts alone.

                  By removing religious anxieties and "accepting myself" has allowed me
                  to focus on my real personal issues, and paradoxically this is more
                  likely to result in me leaving the gay lifestyle.
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