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Re: [ExExGayMinistry] Re: Thank You Guys

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  • Nathan Figueroa
    When you say walk away from the Gay way of living you are telling us to walk away from life-long committed, loving relationships. You are telling us to leave
    Message 1 of 27 , Dec 17, 2005
      When you say "walk away from the Gay way of living"
      you are telling us to walk away from life-long
      committed, loving relationships. You are telling us to
      leave the person whom we have chosen to spend our
      lives with and the children we have raised together.
      You are telling us to reject our commitment to our
      partners and bury the love we share for each other.
      Who would ever choose to do anything so cruel?

      In other times and places, sincere but unjust people
      have cited "God's Word" without considering the human
      consequences, ignoring the feelings and experiences of
      their own fellow human beings. For a sad history
      lesson, read about the history of slavery and the
      Bible:
      http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_bibl.htm

      What I've learned from this history is to consider the
      full context of God's Word, a context which includes
      how our personal application of Scripture effects the
      hearts and lives of others.

      - Nathan



      --- dkyle40 <dkyle40@...> wrote:

      > Mike,
      >
      > It really does not matter what I beleive or what
      > someone else
      > beleives. What matters and what we have to live by
      > is Gods Word.
      > Jesus made it clear that you are with Him or you are
      > against Him. We
      > can see that God did not make a man for a man. It is
      > a sin and the
      > bible makes that very clear in Romans 1:18-32. It is
      > okay to be
      > friends with anyone who will not hurt your walk in
      > the Lord. Men I
      > know it is hard to walk away from the Gay way of
      > living and doing
      > things that makes us feel good but we must see the
      > lies of satan in
      > our lifes. We must turn away from sin and do the
      > will of God in all
      > things. God Bless, Dave
      >
      > --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com,
      > "beltwaymike" <editor@e...>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Dave,
      > >
      > > What your church considers unholy might not be
      > considered unholy in
      > > the Bible -- or to Jews or people of other faiths.
      > >
      > > Same-sex affection is not inherently unholy in the
      > Bible. Whether
      > > sexual behavior is a sin in the Christian faith
      > depends on context:
      > > Does God view the partners as married, or not?
      > >
      > > In the Gospels, Jesus made clear that the
      > sinfulness of an act
      > depends
      > > on its context. It is one thing for a starving
      > woman to steal a
      > loaf
      > > of bread for her starving children, quite another
      > for a rich
      > person to
      > > steal from the poor.
      > >
      > > So... in what specific ways can you relate
      > socially with other
      > men, in
      > > ways that are holy? Can you hug a friend? Kiss a
      > friend on the
      > cheek?
      > > Talk about your feelings with them?
      > > --
      > > Best wishes,
      > > Mike
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • dkyle40
      I corinthians 6:9-10 The word says And that is what some of you were. They walked away from it and walked with the Lord. A real friend or someone who really
      Message 2 of 27 , Dec 18, 2005
        I corinthians 6:9-10 The word says " And that is what some of you
        were. They walked away from it and walked with the Lord. A real
        friend or someone who really loves you would not want you to stay in
        sin with them they would want you to live in the Word. We are not
        living for ourselfs anymore we are living for a Saver to build His
        kingdom. We must open our eyes and give up the seeds in which satan
        has planted. God wants us to be His in Truth and a true partner
        would tell you the some. God Bless, Dave
        --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, Nathan Figueroa
        <nathanfig@y...> wrote:
        >
        > When you say "walk away from the Gay way of living"
        > you are telling us to walk away from life-long
        > committed, loving relationships. You are telling us to
        > leave the person whom we have chosen to spend our
        > lives with and the children we have raised together.
        > You are telling us to reject our commitment to our
        > partners and bury the love we share for each other.
        > Who would ever choose to do anything so cruel?
        >
        > In other times and places, sincere but unjust people
        > have cited "God's Word" without considering the human
        > consequences, ignoring the feelings and experiences of
        > their own fellow human beings. For a sad history
        > lesson, read about the history of slavery and the
        > Bible:
        > http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_bibl.htm
        >
        > What I've learned from this history is to consider the
        > full context of God's Word, a context which includes
        > how our personal application of Scripture effects the
        > hearts and lives of others.
        >
        > - Nathan
        >
        >
        >
        > --- dkyle40 <dkyle40@y...> wrote:
        >
        > > Mike,
        > >
        > > It really does not matter what I beleive or what
        > > someone else
        > > beleives. What matters and what we have to live by
        > > is Gods Word.
        > > Jesus made it clear that you are with Him or you are
        > > against Him. We
        > > can see that God did not make a man for a man. It is
        > > a sin and the
        > > bible makes that very clear in Romans 1:18-32. It is
        > > okay to be
        > > friends with anyone who will not hurt your walk in
        > > the Lord. Men I
        > > know it is hard to walk away from the Gay way of
        > > living and doing
        > > things that makes us feel good but we must see the
        > > lies of satan in
        > > our lifes. We must turn away from sin and do the
        > > will of God in all
        > > things. God Bless, Dave
        > >
        > > --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com,
        > > "beltwaymike" <editor@e...>
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Dave,
        > > >
        > > > What your church considers unholy might not be
        > > considered unholy in
        > > > the Bible -- or to Jews or people of other faiths.
        > > >
        > > > Same-sex affection is not inherently unholy in the
        > > Bible. Whether
        > > > sexual behavior is a sin in the Christian faith
        > > depends on context:
        > > > Does God view the partners as married, or not?
        > > >
        > > > In the Gospels, Jesus made clear that the
        > > sinfulness of an act
        > > depends
        > > > on its context. It is one thing for a starving
        > > woman to steal a
        > > loaf
        > > > of bread for her starving children, quite another
        > > for a rich
        > > person to
        > > > steal from the poor.
        > > >
        > > > So... in what specific ways can you relate
        > > socially with other
        > > men, in
        > > > ways that are holy? Can you hug a friend? Kiss a
        > > friend on the
        > > cheek?
        > > > Talk about your feelings with them?
        > > > --
        > > > Best wishes,
        > > > Mike
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Joe-Allen
        Joe-Allen s response to what dkyle40 wrote: I corinthians 6:9-10 The word says And that is what some of you were. They walked away from
        Message 3 of 27 , Dec 18, 2005
          Joe-Allen's response to what dkyle40 <dkyle40@...> wrote:
          I corinthians 6:9-10 The word says " And that is what some of you
          were. They walked away from it and walked with the Lord. A real
          friend or someone who really loves you would not want you to stay in
          sin with them they would want you to live in the Word. We are not
          living for ourselfs anymore we are living for a Saver to build His
          kingdom. We must open our eyes and give up the seeds in which satan
          has planted. God wants us to be His in Truth and a true partner
          would tell you the some. God Bless, Dave



          * *************

          I, Joe-Allen, had an experience with an American Baptist Church pastor, the Rev. Mr. Bill Thompson, where I revealed my sexual orientation to him. [Bill was the pastor of All Tribes Community Church here in Tulsa, Oklahoma.]

          Bill had been providing rides for me to church activities, Sunday Afternoon worship services and family night. When he gave me a ride to a Wed. night Bible Study at Clark's, the worship leader's home, he askd me what church I had been attending and what it believed.

          At the time, I was going to Family of Faith Metropolitan Community of Church and I sort of explained about the church accepting gay people like me. Before that evening I had not revealed my sexual orientation.

          He brought up about a person no longer being what he once was before he acccepte the Jesus the Christ as Lord and Savior. I responded with, words to this effect, "What I once was before I accepted Jesus into my heart was an 8 year old boy."

          I thought after his remark that I might have a problem in a pastor-parishioner relationship with him. I had not yet joined All Tribe CC.

          At the end of the Bible study, since snacks were going to be served, Bill asked me to ask the LORD to bless the food as well as close the Bible study portion of the evening fellowship.

          That night was the first time I saw Clark. It was because, Judy, my therapist at Tulsa Indian Health Care Resource Center was a good close friend of Clark's in a professional way that I started attending All Tribes. Both Judy and Clark were in the Behavioral Health dept of the Center; but, Judy was a mental health counselor while Clark was a drug rehab case worker. Judy told me that I should not have a problem with my sexual orientation being accepted as normal being the church was a "traditional 'Native Amercian church'." [She was not referring to the "Native American Church" which some Indians are active in. She just meant that they did not pass judgment on people like in some mainline and certain Evangelical and/or fundamentalist churches do.]

          While we were waiting for the ladies to set out the food for snacks, Clark asked me to join him in his office at home. I told Clark about what Bill had said on the way to the Bible Study and Clark said, "Oh, don't worry about him." Clark had already known whom I was because Judy had already told him a few things about me (with my permission, of course).

          Clark had wanted me in his office because he wanted to give me a private Christian blessing the Native American way.

          Well, after that evening, my sexual orientation was not a problem. In fact, after I became a member of All Tribes, both Bill and Clark asked Tommy Chesbro, the AIDS Education counselor in Clark and Judy's department at the Center, to become a member, too. Tommy did and still loves the LORD.

          But, Tommy declined the invitation because he was active in helping the Rev. Mrs. Leslie Penrose with starting "The Community of Hope" church which, at that time, was a non-official outreach ministry of the United Methodist Church, but sanctioned by the UMC. [Because of a conflict of Leslie giving approval to gay unions and a homophobic person who was not in the Tulsa district for the UMC but elsewhere in SE Oklahoma, Leslie gave up her ordination with the UMC and was welcomed into the UCC. And the church became affiliated with the UCC, too.

          1 Corinthians 6:9-10, from a theologically correct interpretation and point of view as well as a Greek Koine Language point of view, has absolutely no connection at all with one having an exclusive homosexual orientation!

          In fact, there is no word in the Greek in those verses which can literally nor figuratively translated/interpreted as "homosexual!" In fact, "arsenokoitai" which the NIV translates as "homosexual," has not been found in any Greek language piece of literature before the 1st Century AD nor during the 1st Century AD either. The Apostle Paul is the only person known to have used "arsenokoitai." So, truthfully, nobody knows what the word means literally. It can mean female prostitutes ("ai" suffix means word is feminine plural) who talk males to bed with them. Or, with my knowing how some words are variantly spelled in Greek, it could be women who are home-wreckers, beause it could mean "those females who take away homes" (meaning that people should live a sparse Spartain lifestyle).

          And, in my educated theological guessing opinion, "arsenokoitai" is the extreme opposite of "malakoi," soft-ones or velvety things. Jesus used a Greek form of "malakoi" to describe the kind of richly fine soft clothing John the Baptist was certainly NOT wearing!




          Joe-Allen Doty farmer Milk-cow boy









          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • dkyle40
          Nathan, God tells us to leave all sin. All are going to pay for power that satan gives to homosexaul and the more power it gets the more everyone going to pay.
          Message 4 of 27 , Dec 24, 2005
            Nathan,

            God tells us to leave all sin. All are going to pay for power
            that satan gives to homosexaul and the more power it gets the more
            everyone going to pay. When God judges Homosexaul. There are
            millions today who die with aids and other things that has came out
            of homosexaul men having sex. Most people who choose to live as a
            homosexaul die at age 40. Kids who grow up in a homosexaul home
            never get to see the true design God has made a family to be. When
            God judgies we all pay and your kids are going to pay more but you
            can not see that. You are letting satan build his world in them of
            lies all ready by the way they see you live your life against His
            Word. We must turn from our sins and God will keep us all save in
            the Jesus. God Bless Your Soul, Dave
            --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, Nathan Figueroa
            <nathanfig@y...> wrote:
            >
            > When you say "walk away from the Gay way of living"
            > you are telling us to walk away from life-long
            > committed, loving relationships. You are telling us to
            > leave the person whom we have chosen to spend our
            > lives with and the children we have raised together.
            > You are telling us to reject our commitment to our
            > partners and bury the love we share for each other.
            > Who would ever choose to do anything so cruel?
            >
            > In other times and places, sincere but unjust people
            > have cited "God's Word" without considering the human
            > consequences, ignoring the feelings and experiences of
            > their own fellow human beings. For a sad history
            > lesson, read about the history of slavery and the
            > Bible:
            > http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_bibl.htm
            >
            > What I've learned from this history is to consider the
            > full context of God's Word, a context which includes
            > how our personal application of Scripture effects the
            > hearts and lives of others.
            >
            > - Nathan
            >
            >
            >
            > --- dkyle40 <dkyle40@y...> wrote:
            >
            > > Mike,
            > >
            > > It really does not matter what I beleive or what
            > > someone else
            > > beleives. What matters and what we have to live by
            > > is Gods Word.
            > > Jesus made it clear that you are with Him or you are
            > > against Him. We
            > > can see that God did not make a man for a man. It is
            > > a sin and the
            > > bible makes that very clear in Romans 1:18-32. It is
            > > okay to be
            > > friends with anyone who will not hurt your walk in
            > > the Lord. Men I
            > > know it is hard to walk away from the Gay way of
            > > living and doing
            > > things that makes us feel good but we must see the
            > > lies of satan in
            > > our lifes. We must turn away from sin and do the
            > > will of God in all
            > > things. God Bless, Dave
            > >
            > > --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com,
            > > "beltwaymike" <editor@e...>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Dave,
            > > >
            > > > What your church considers unholy might not be
            > > considered unholy in
            > > > the Bible -- or to Jews or people of other faiths.
            > > >
            > > > Same-sex affection is not inherently unholy in the
            > > Bible. Whether
            > > > sexual behavior is a sin in the Christian faith
            > > depends on context:
            > > > Does God view the partners as married, or not?
            > > >
            > > > In the Gospels, Jesus made clear that the
            > > sinfulness of an act
            > > depends
            > > > on its context. It is one thing for a starving
            > > woman to steal a
            > > loaf
            > > > of bread for her starving children, quite another
            > > for a rich
            > > person to
            > > > steal from the poor.
            > > >
            > > > So... in what specific ways can you relate
            > > socially with other
            > > men, in
            > > > ways that are holy? Can you hug a friend? Kiss a
            > > friend on the
            > > cheek?
            > > > Talk about your feelings with them?
            > > > --
            > > > Best wishes,
            > > > Mike
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Bob Griffith
            I have not written anything because, basically, it is a waste of time to argue with Dave - we all know that. Dave can accuse me of anything he wishes, and so
            Message 5 of 27 , Dec 24, 2005
              I have not written anything because, basically, it is a waste of time to
              argue with Dave - we all know that. Dave can accuse me of anything he
              wishes, and so be it. I stand before Jesus, my judge, not Dave. However,
              the intentional spreading of false information, of spreading lies, well, I
              feel compelled to respond.

              Dave - from what you wrote below, just know that some of it is propaganda
              you are repeating and it is a lie. You may be misinformed, so know this:

              - Most gay men do not die at age 40. That is a lie.
              - There are millions of people who are dying as a result of being infected
              with the HIV virus - they have AIDS. The vast majority of those millions
              who are dying are heterosexual, not homosexual. You are misinformed if
              you believe that AIDS is a "gay disease." Stop spreading that lie.

              To continue to post these kinds of anti-gay propaganda is to be involved
              in the sin of baring false witness against a whole class of people. We
              all know that is contrary to the will of God.

              Bob

              --- dkyle40 <dkyle40@...> wrote:

              There are millions today who die with aids and other things that has came
              out of homosexaul men having sex. Most people who choose to live as a
              homosexaul die at age 40. Kids who grow up in a homosexaul home never get
              to see the true design God has made a family to be. When God judgies we
              all pay and your kids are going to pay more but you can not see that. You
              are letting satan build his world in them of lies all ready by the way
              they see you live your life against His Word. We must turn from our sins
              and God will keep us all save in
              the Jesus. God Bless Your Soul, Dave
            • dkyle40
              Bob, Don t for get Dave deals with the same mind in which satan has build in you. It is not Daves Word but Gods and It speaks for it s self. Aids is a gay men
              Message 6 of 27 , Dec 25, 2005
                Bob,

                Don't for get Dave deals with the same mind in which satan has
                build in you. It is not Daves Word but Gods and It speaks for it's
                self. Aids is a gay men thing, we are like dogs. There is no gay men
                who has sex with one men in their life as I know of. I know when I
                acted out I had many and could have gotten aids very very easy. Go
                to washblade.com/2005/6%2D17/view/actionalert/ and read. God Bless,
                Dave
                --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, Bob Griffith
                <blgriffith@y...> wrote:
                >
                > I have not written anything because, basically, it is a waste of
                time to
                > argue with Dave - we all know that. Dave can accuse me of
                anything he
                > wishes, and so be it. I stand before Jesus, my judge, not Dave.
                However,
                > the intentional spreading of false information, of spreading lies,
                well, I
                > feel compelled to respond.
                >
                > Dave - from what you wrote below, just know that some of it is
                propaganda
                > you are repeating and it is a lie. You may be misinformed, so know
                this:
                >
                > - Most gay men do not die at age 40. That is a lie.
                > - There are millions of people who are dying as a result of being
                infected
                > with the HIV virus - they have AIDS. The vast majority of those
                millions
                > who are dying are heterosexual, not homosexual. You are
                misinformed if
                > you believe that AIDS is a "gay disease." Stop spreading that lie.
                >
                > To continue to post these kinds of anti-gay propaganda is to be
                involved
                > in the sin of baring false witness against a whole class of
                people. We
                > all know that is contrary to the will of God.
                >
                > Bob
                >
                > --- dkyle40 <dkyle40@y...> wrote:
                >
                > There are millions today who die with aids and other things that
                has came
                > out of homosexaul men having sex. Most people who choose to live
                as a
                > homosexaul die at age 40. Kids who grow up in a homosexaul home
                never get
                > to see the true design God has made a family to be. When God
                judgies we
                > all pay and your kids are going to pay more but you can not see
                that. You
                > are letting satan build his world in them of lies all ready by the
                way
                > they see you live your life against His Word. We must turn from
                our sins
                > and God will keep us all save in
                > the Jesus. God Bless Your Soul, Dave
                >
              • Bob Griffith
                Dave - This question is not meant to be anything other than an honest question. Dave, how old are you? I m just curious. God s word does speak for itself,
                Message 7 of 27 , Dec 25, 2005
                  Dave -

                  This question is not meant to be anything other than an honest question.
                  Dave, how old are you? I'm just curious.

                  God's word does speak for itself, just as one resent post gave the verses
                  from Ezekiel concerning what the sin of Sodom was all about.

                  You have a belief that you want to prove, so you go to the Scriptures to
                  find any thing/verse(s) that supposedly support or prove your belief.
                  This is called "proof-texting," and it is not a good way to use Scripture.
                  A good student of the Word will allow the Word written to inform and
                  challenge his or her beliefs, even if it means changing those prior
                  beliefs.

                  Scripture, whether in Genesis or in Romans, does not "speak" of a
                  homosexual orientation as we understand it today. It just doesn't. You
                  may want to continue to hold to your belief that every form of
                  homosexuality is a sin and an abomination, but you cannot support that
                  belief from Scripture. If you attempt to do so, you are not a good
                  student of the Word written and you do not "rightly divide the Word."

                  AIDS is not a gay disease. Heterosexuals and homosexuals alike do stupid
                  things that increase the sped of the virus, but to continue to demand that
                  it is a gay-disease is to sped a lie.

                  Do not lie, Dave. Show yourself approved by being a good student of the
                  Word, and not simply repeating what some "Pharisees" would like the public
                  to believe about homosexuals.

                  Bob

                  --- dkyle40 <dkyle40@...> wrote:

                  > Bob,
                  >
                  > Don't for get Dave deals with the same mind in which satan has
                  > build in you. It is not Daves Word but Gods and It speaks for it's
                  > self. Aids is a gay men thing, we are like dogs. There is no gay men
                  > who has sex with one men in their life as I know of. I know when I
                  > acted out I had many and could have gotten aids very very easy. Go
                  > to washblade.com/2005/6%2D17/view/actionalert/ and read. God Bless,
                  > Dave
                  > --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, Bob Griffith
                  > <blgriffith@y...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I have not written anything because, basically, it is a waste of
                  > time to
                  > > argue with Dave - we all know that. Dave can accuse me of
                  > anything he
                  > > wishes, and so be it. I stand before Jesus, my judge, not Dave.
                  > However,
                  > > the intentional spreading of false information, of spreading lies,
                  > well, I
                  > > feel compelled to respond.
                  > >
                  > > Dave - from what you wrote below, just know that some of it is
                  > propaganda
                  > > you are repeating and it is a lie. You may be misinformed, so know
                  > this:
                  > >
                  > > - Most gay men do not die at age 40. That is a lie.
                  > > - There are millions of people who are dying as a result of being
                  > infected
                  > > with the HIV virus - they have AIDS. The vast majority of those
                  > millions
                  > > who are dying are heterosexual, not homosexual. You are
                  > misinformed if
                  > > you believe that AIDS is a "gay disease." Stop spreading that lie.
                  > >
                  > > To continue to post these kinds of anti-gay propaganda is to be
                  > involved
                  > > in the sin of baring false witness against a whole class of
                  > people. We
                  > > all know that is contrary to the will of God.
                  > >
                  > > Bob
                  > >
                  > > --- dkyle40 <dkyle40@y...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > There are millions today who die with aids and other things that
                  > has came
                  > > out of homosexaul men having sex. Most people who choose to live
                  > as a
                  > > homosexaul die at age 40. Kids who grow up in a homosexaul home
                  > never get
                  > > to see the true design God has made a family to be. When God
                  > judgies we
                  > > all pay and your kids are going to pay more but you can not see
                  > that. You
                  > > are letting satan build his world in them of lies all ready by the
                  > way
                  > > they see you live your life against His Word. We must turn from
                  > our sins
                  > > and God will keep us all save in
                  > > the Jesus. God Bless Your Soul, Dave
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • dkyle40
                  Bob, Dave will not take Gods Word and make it into a lie to make you are anyone else to feel better in their lie. Satan will have you to beleive anything you
                  Message 8 of 27 , Dec 26, 2005
                    Bob,

                    Dave will not take Gods Word and make it into a lie to make you
                    are anyone else to feel better in their lie. Satan will have you to
                    beleive anything you will. But don't forget Dave has walked in your
                    shoes. Gods Word is very clear and God did not make a man for a man
                    and it is very clear in Romans 1. This Word is to help you see Gods
                    Truth and you must walk away from sin. I know you can if I can. You
                    can say know to lie and you can say yes to Gods Word. Please don't
                    make the Word into a lie. Jesus came to bring this Word into the
                    world for you to have the Truth. God Bless, Dave

                    --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, Bob Griffith
                    <blgriffith@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Dave -
                    >
                    > This question is not meant to be anything other than an honest
                    question.
                    > Dave, how old are you? I'm just curious.
                    >
                    > God's word does speak for itself, just as one resent post gave the
                    verses
                    > from Ezekiel concerning what the sin of Sodom was all about.
                    >
                    > You have a belief that you want to prove, so you go to the
                    Scriptures to
                    > find any thing/verse(s) that supposedly support or prove your
                    belief.
                    > This is called "proof-texting," and it is not a good way to use
                    Scripture.
                    > A good student of the Word will allow the Word written to inform
                    and
                    > challenge his or her beliefs, even if it means changing those prior
                    > beliefs.
                    >
                    > Scripture, whether in Genesis or in Romans, does not "speak" of a
                    > homosexual orientation as we understand it today. It just
                    doesn't. You
                    > may want to continue to hold to your belief that every form of
                    > homosexuality is a sin and an abomination, but you cannot support
                    that
                    > belief from Scripture. If you attempt to do so, you are not a good
                    > student of the Word written and you do not "rightly divide the
                    Word."
                    >
                    > AIDS is not a gay disease. Heterosexuals and homosexuals alike do
                    stupid
                    > things that increase the sped of the virus, but to continue to
                    demand that
                    > it is a gay-disease is to sped a lie.
                    >
                    > Do not lie, Dave. Show yourself approved by being a good student
                    of the
                    > Word, and not simply repeating what some "Pharisees" would like
                    the public
                    > to believe about homosexuals.
                    >
                    > Bob
                    >
                    > --- dkyle40 <dkyle40@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Bob,
                    > >
                    > > Don't for get Dave deals with the same mind in which satan has
                    > > build in you. It is not Daves Word but Gods and It speaks for
                    it's
                    > > self. Aids is a gay men thing, we are like dogs. There is no gay
                    men
                    > > who has sex with one men in their life as I know of. I know when
                    I
                    > > acted out I had many and could have gotten aids very very easy.
                    Go
                    > > to washblade.com/2005/6%2D17/view/actionalert/ and read. God
                    Bless,
                    > > Dave
                    > > --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, Bob Griffith
                    > > <blgriffith@y...> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > I have not written anything because, basically, it is a waste
                    of
                    > > time to
                    > > > argue with Dave - we all know that. Dave can accuse me of
                    > > anything he
                    > > > wishes, and so be it. I stand before Jesus, my judge, not
                    Dave.
                    > > However,
                    > > > the intentional spreading of false information, of spreading
                    lies,
                    > > well, I
                    > > > feel compelled to respond.
                    > > >
                    > > > Dave - from what you wrote below, just know that some of it is
                    > > propaganda
                    > > > you are repeating and it is a lie. You may be misinformed, so
                    know
                    > > this:
                    > > >
                    > > > - Most gay men do not die at age 40. That is a lie.
                    > > > - There are millions of people who are dying as a result of
                    being
                    > > infected
                    > > > with the HIV virus - they have AIDS. The vast majority of
                    those
                    > > millions
                    > > > who are dying are heterosexual, not homosexual. You are
                    > > misinformed if
                    > > > you believe that AIDS is a "gay disease." Stop spreading that
                    lie.
                    > > >
                    > > > To continue to post these kinds of anti-gay propaganda is to
                    be
                    > > involved
                    > > > in the sin of baring false witness against a whole class of
                    > > people. We
                    > > > all know that is contrary to the will of God.
                    > > >
                    > > > Bob
                    > > >
                    > > > --- dkyle40 <dkyle40@y...> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > There are millions today who die with aids and other things
                    that
                    > > has came
                    > > > out of homosexaul men having sex. Most people who choose to
                    live
                    > > as a
                    > > > homosexaul die at age 40. Kids who grow up in a homosexaul
                    home
                    > > never get
                    > > > to see the true design God has made a family to be. When God
                    > > judgies we
                    > > > all pay and your kids are going to pay more but you can not
                    see
                    > > that. You
                    > > > are letting satan build his world in them of lies all ready by
                    the
                    > > way
                    > > > they see you live your life against His Word. We must turn
                    from
                    > > our sins
                    > > > and God will keep us all save in
                    > > > the Jesus. God Bless Your Soul, Dave
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • J Dixon
                    Bob, Satan is such a crutch! Seriously. Did it occur to you that Satan didn t lie in the garden of Eden? Consider this: The Hebrew used in the story of
                    Message 9 of 27 , Dec 26, 2005
                      Bob,

                      Satan is such a crutch! Seriously. Did it occur to you that Satan didn't lie in the garden of Eden? Consider this:

                      The Hebrew used in the story of Genesis uses the word elohim, which is rendered "God" in the translations, but there is a problem: elohim is PLURAL, and means SEVERAL gods as used in the story of creation. Only when the focus of Genesis shifts to Eden does another word come to render as "God" -- Yatvah, a proper name of one god -- one of the elohim!

                      Further, when Yatvah -- the Judeo-Christian god -- plants the Tree of Knowledge in the garden and forbids Adam and Eve to eat of it, he does not say "you will surely die" as is so popularly translated -- he actually says "you will die immediately". It is an imperative verb form. Then along comes the serpent, Satan... and he says, "You will not die immediately, but you will know the differences between good and bad (right and wrong)."

                      Now, Eve and then Adam ate the fruit. I have one very simple question: Did they die immediately as Yatvah said they would??

                      No!

                      So you tell me, who lied?

                      John

                      dkyle40 <dkyle40@...> wrote:
                      Bob,

                      Dave will not take Gods Word and make it into a lie to make you
                      are anyone else to feel better in their lie. Satan will have you to
                      beleive anything you will. But don't forget Dave has walked in your
                      shoes. Gods Word is very clear and God did not make a man for a man
                      and it is very clear in Romans 1. This Word is to help you see Gods
                      Truth and you must walk away from sin. I know you can if I can. You
                      can say know to lie and you can say yes to Gods Word. Please don't
                      make the Word into a lie. Jesus came to bring this Word into the
                      world for you to have the Truth. God Bless, Dave

                      --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, Bob Griffith
                      <blgriffith@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Dave -
                      >
                      > This question is not meant to be anything other than an honest
                      question.
                      > Dave, how old are you? I'm just curious.
                      >
                      > God's word does speak for itself, just as one resent post gave the
                      verses
                      > from Ezekiel concerning what the sin of Sodom was all about.
                      >
                      > You have a belief that you want to prove, so you go to the
                      Scriptures to
                      > find any thing/verse(s) that supposedly support or prove your
                      belief.
                      > This is called "proof-texting," and it is not a good way to use
                      Scripture.
                      > A good student of the Word will allow the Word written to inform
                      and
                      > challenge his or her beliefs, even if it means changing those prior
                      > beliefs.
                      >
                      > Scripture, whether in Genesis or in Romans, does not "speak" of a
                      > homosexual orientation as we understand it today. It just
                      doesn't. You
                      > may want to continue to hold to your belief that every form of
                      > homosexuality is a sin and an abomination, but you cannot support
                      that
                      > belief from Scripture. If you attempt to do so, you are not a good
                      > student of the Word written and you do not "rightly divide the
                      Word."
                      >
                      > AIDS is not a gay disease. Heterosexuals and homosexuals alike do
                      stupid
                      > things that increase the sped of the virus, but to continue to
                      demand that
                      > it is a gay-disease is to sped a lie.
                      >
                      > Do not lie, Dave. Show yourself approved by being a good student
                      of the
                      > Word, and not simply repeating what some "Pharisees" would like
                      the public
                      > to believe about homosexuals.
                      >
                      > Bob
                      >
                      > --- dkyle40 <dkyle40@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Bob,
                      > >
                      > > Don't for get Dave deals with the same mind in which satan has
                      > > build in you. It is not Daves Word but Gods and It speaks for
                      it's
                      > > self. Aids is a gay men thing, we are like dogs. There is no gay
                      men
                      > > who has sex with one men in their life as I know of. I know when
                      I
                      > > acted out I had many and could have gotten aids very very easy.
                      Go
                      > > to washblade.com/2005/6%2D17/view/actionalert/ and read. God
                      Bless,
                      > > Dave
                      > > --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, Bob Griffith
                      > > <blgriffith@y...> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > I have not written anything because, basically, it is a waste
                      of
                      > > time to
                      > > > argue with Dave - we all know that. Dave can accuse me of
                      > > anything he
                      > > > wishes, and so be it. I stand before Jesus, my judge, not
                      Dave.
                      > > However,
                      > > > the intentional spreading of false information, of spreading
                      lies,
                      > > well, I
                      > > > feel compelled to respond.
                      > > >
                      > > > Dave - from what you wrote below, just know that some of it is
                      > > propaganda
                      > > > you are repeating and it is a lie. You may be misinformed, so
                      know
                      > > this:
                      > > >
                      > > > - Most gay men do not die at age 40. That is a lie.
                      > > > - There are millions of people who are dying as a result of
                      being
                      > > infected
                      > > > with the HIV virus - they have AIDS. The vast majority of
                      those
                      > > millions
                      > > > who are dying are heterosexual, not homosexual. You are
                      > > misinformed if
                      > > > you believe that AIDS is a "gay disease." Stop spreading that
                      lie.
                      > > >
                      > > > To continue to post these kinds of anti-gay propaganda is to
                      be
                      > > involved
                      > > > in the sin of baring false witness against a whole class of
                      > > people. We
                      > > > all know that is contrary to the will of God.
                      > > >
                      > > > Bob
                      > > >
                      > > > --- dkyle40 <dkyle40@y...> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > There are millions today who die with aids and other things
                      that
                      > > has came
                      > > > out of homosexaul men having sex. Most people who choose to
                      live
                      > > as a
                      > > > homosexaul die at age 40. Kids who grow up in a homosexaul
                      home
                      > > never get
                      > > > to see the true design God has made a family to be. When God
                      > > judgies we
                      > > > all pay and your kids are going to pay more but you can not
                      see
                      > > that. You
                      > > > are letting satan build his world in them of lies all ready by
                      the
                      > > way
                      > > > they see you live your life against His Word. We must turn
                      from
                      > > our sins
                      > > > and God will keep us all save in
                      > > > the Jesus. God Bless Your Soul, Dave
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >






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                    • Nathan Figueroa
                      Reading your response, I feel like you re suggesting I live my life in fear - fear of AIDS, fear of early death, fear of same-sex parenthood. Since I prefer to
                      Message 10 of 27 , Dec 28, 2005
                        Reading your response, I feel like you're suggesting I
                        live my life in fear - fear of AIDS, fear of early
                        death, fear of same-sex parenthood. Since I prefer to
                        lead my life in hope and in love, I am happy that I do
                        not share those fears.

                        I wish I could help you overcome your fears. I wish
                        you could meet some of the kind, loving same-sex
                        couples that have shaped my worldview. I wish you
                        would challenge yourself to try to understand the
                        experiences of those who are different from you.

                        An important part of my personal spiritual growth has
                        been finding the strength to challenge my beliefs,
                        even when it is difficult and my viewpoints are deeply
                        held. I seek out people whose experiences and beliefs
                        are different from my own and try to see the world
                        through their eyes. Sometimes its scary to question
                        your beliefs - but in the end I trust that the Truth
                        will be true, and I am not afraid.

                        - Nathan

                        --- dkyle40 <dkyle40@...> wrote:

                        > Nathan,
                        >
                        > God tells us to leave all sin. All are going to
                        > pay for power
                        > that satan gives to homosexaul and the more power it
                        > gets the more
                        > everyone going to pay. When God judges Homosexaul.
                        > There are
                        > millions today who die with aids and other things
                        > that has came out
                        > of homosexaul men having sex. Most people who choose
                        > to live as a
                        > homosexaul die at age 40. Kids who grow up in a
                        > homosexaul home
                        > never get to see the true design God has made a
                        > family to be. When
                        > God judgies we all pay and your kids are going to
                        > pay more but you
                        > can not see that. You are letting satan build his
                        > world in them of
                        > lies all ready by the way they see you live your
                        > life against His
                        > Word. We must turn from our sins and God will keep
                        > us all save in
                        > the Jesus. God Bless Your Soul, Dave
                        > --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, Nathan
                        > Figueroa
                        > <nathanfig@y...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > When you say "walk away from the Gay way of
                        > living"
                        > > you are telling us to walk away from life-long
                        > > committed, loving relationships. You are telling
                        > us to
                        > > leave the person whom we have chosen to spend our
                        > > lives with and the children we have raised
                        > together.
                        > > You are telling us to reject our commitment to our
                        > > partners and bury the love we share for each
                        > other.
                        > > Who would ever choose to do anything so cruel?
                        > >
                        > > In other times and places, sincere but unjust
                        > people
                        > > have cited "God's Word" without considering the
                        > human
                        > > consequences, ignoring the feelings and
                        > experiences of
                        > > their own fellow human beings. For a sad history
                        > > lesson, read about the history of slavery and the
                        > > Bible:
                        > > http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_bibl.htm
                        > >
                        > > What I've learned from this history is to consider
                        > the
                        > > full context of God's Word, a context which
                        > includes
                        > > how our personal application of Scripture effects
                        > the
                        > > hearts and lives of others.
                        > >
                        > > - Nathan
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- dkyle40 <dkyle40@y...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > Mike,
                        > > >
                        > > > It really does not matter what I beleive or
                        > what
                        > > > someone else
                        > > > beleives. What matters and what we have to live
                        > by
                        > > > is Gods Word.
                        > > > Jesus made it clear that you are with Him or you
                        > are
                        > > > against Him. We
                        > > > can see that God did not make a man for a man.
                        > It is
                        > > > a sin and the
                        > > > bible makes that very clear in Romans 1:18-32.
                        > It is
                        > > > okay to be
                        > > > friends with anyone who will not hurt your walk
                        > in
                        > > > the Lord. Men I
                        > > > know it is hard to walk away from the Gay way of
                        > > > living and doing
                        > > > things that makes us feel good but we must see
                        > the
                        > > > lies of satan in
                        > > > our lifes. We must turn away from sin and do the
                        > > > will of God in all
                        > > > things. God Bless, Dave
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com,
                        > > > "beltwaymike" <editor@e...>
                        > > > wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Dave,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > What your church considers unholy might not be
                        > > > considered unholy in
                        > > > > the Bible -- or to Jews or people of other
                        > faiths.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Same-sex affection is not inherently unholy in
                        > the
                        > > > Bible. Whether
                        > > > > sexual behavior is a sin in the Christian
                        > faith
                        > > > depends on context:
                        > > > > Does God view the partners as married, or not?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > In the Gospels, Jesus made clear that the
                        > > > sinfulness of an act
                        > > > depends
                        > > > > on its context. It is one thing for a starving
                        > > > woman to steal a
                        > > > loaf
                        > > > > of bread for her starving children, quite
                        > another
                        > > > for a rich
                        > > > person to
                        > > > > steal from the poor.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > So... in what specific ways can you relate
                        > > > socially with other
                        > > > men, in
                        > > > > ways that are holy? Can you hug a friend? Kiss
                        > a
                        > > > friend on the
                        > > > cheek?
                        > > > > Talk about your feelings with them?
                        > > > > --
                        > > > > Best wishes,
                        > > > > Mike
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Bob Griffith
                        Dave, My question still stands - How old are you? Don t forget, Dave, that I have walked in your shoes! I believed for a long time that God forbade all
                        Message 11 of 27 , Dec 29, 2005
                          Dave,

                          My question still stands - How old are you?

                          Don't forget, Dave, that I have walked in your shoes! I believed for a
                          long time that God forbade all same-sex relationships, period. It wasn't
                          until I really studied the Scriptures that the reality of what the
                          Scriptures actually say and don't say came to light. I was were you are -
                          I believed the ex-gay ideology, but that ideology has proven to be false.
                          God is not false, nor is His written Word, but the ex-gay ideology is.

                          The whole thing had nothing to do with what would make me feel better, but
                          my wanting to know the Truth.

                          Bob

                          --- dkyle40 <dkyle40@...> wrote:

                          > Bob,
                          >
                          > Dave will not take Gods Word and make it into a lie to make you
                          > are anyone else to feel better in their lie. Satan will have you to
                          > beleive anything you will. But don't forget Dave has walked in your
                          > shoes. Gods Word is very clear and God did not make a man for a man
                          > and it is very clear in Romans 1. This Word is to help you see Gods
                          > Truth and you must walk away from sin. I know you can if I can. You
                          > can say know to lie and you can say yes to Gods Word. Please don't
                          > make the Word into a lie. Jesus came to bring this Word into the
                          > world for you to have the Truth. God Bless, Dave
                        • Bob Griffith
                          Oops. I pays to read all the relevant posts before responding to an earlier one when one is playing catch-up (or something like that). Bob
                          Message 12 of 27 , Dec 29, 2005
                            Oops. I pays to read all the relevant posts before responding to an
                            earlier one when one is playing catch-up (or something like that).

                            Bob

                            --- Bob Griffith <blgriffith@...> wrote:

                            > Dave,
                            >
                            > My question still stands - How old are you?
                            >
                            > Don't forget, Dave, that I have walked in your shoes! I believed for a
                            > long time that God forbade all same-sex relationships, period. It
                            > wasn't
                            > until I really studied the Scriptures that the reality of what the
                            > Scriptures actually say and don't say came to light. I was were you are
                            > -
                            > I believed the ex-gay ideology, but that ideology has proven to be
                            > false.
                            > God is not false, nor is His written Word, but the ex-gay ideology is.
                            >
                            > The whole thing had nothing to do with what would make me feel better,
                            > but
                            > my wanting to know the Truth.
                            >
                            > Bob
                            >
                            > --- dkyle40 <dkyle40@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > Bob,
                            > >
                            > > Dave will not take Gods Word and make it into a lie to make you
                            > > are anyone else to feel better in their lie. Satan will have you to
                            > > beleive anything you will. But don't forget Dave has walked in your
                            > > shoes. Gods Word is very clear and God did not make a man for a man
                            > > and it is very clear in Romans 1. This Word is to help you see Gods
                            > > Truth and you must walk away from sin. I know you can if I can. You
                            > > can say know to lie and you can say yes to Gods Word. Please don't
                            > > make the Word into a lie. Jesus came to bring this Word into the
                            > > world for you to have the Truth. God Bless, Dave
                            >
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