Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [ExExGayMinistry] Re: a negative aspect of same sex attraction which doesn't come from outside

Expand Messages
  • Scott Russell
    Well put, Mike! Yes, this is all part of queer theory. Many people have written about the ways gays (more so than lesbians) can eat each other alive --
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 30, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Well put, Mike!

      Yes, this is all part of "queer theory." Many people have written about the ways gays (more so than lesbians) can "eat each other alive" -- and not in the good sense! ; )

      I'm taking a class at my university this semester on Gay and Lesbian Lit. We have just finished two novels -- Andrew Holleran's "Dancer from the Dance" and Rita Mae Brown's "Ruby Fruit Jungle."

      "Dancer" is the story of a group of "circuit boys" in NYC in the late 70's, just before the specter AIDS arrived on the scene. It describes the lonely and achingly desperate lifestyle so many gay men lead looking for their next high or sexual experience, with some tragic consequences. The book has been described as the "queer Great Gatsby" and is still considered a very important book in the development of current gay literature. There are some amazing quotes and scenes. Near the end, when one of the circuit boiz is getting to old for "the scene" he notices a very young man who has just entered it. He has an "epiphany": "They danced together as if they were falling in love, but...they faced each other at the opposite ends of an illusion." The book is not a celebration of the shallow, "club scene," but it also isn't a condemnation of it either, just a snapshot. Another good quote: The vast majority of homosexuals are looking for a superman to love and find it very difficult
      to love anyone merely human, which we all unfortunately happen to be. A circuit queen, who has some of the best lines, remarks, "We are not doomed because we are homosexual, my dear, we are doomed only if we live in despair because of it." The narrator, by the end, realizes that there are "more homosexuals" than those he encountered in the party scene -- there are gay men and lesbians seeking to live out "normal" lives away from the clubs. It can be a sad and sobering book, but I think it also gives us a decent mirror in which to see both the masquerade of self-loathing that so much gay culture represents, but also to see the hopefulness of a community of gays and lesbians who refuse to live like that. Finding such a community, then, is the key. I haven't found it yet, myself, but I know i'm closer -- like Dorothy on her way to the Emerald City. God speed!

      I haven't finished "Rubyfruit Jungle" yet, but it is quite a different book. It tells the story of a young woman, Molly, who is coming to terms with her sexual identity, but refusing to be categorized by the lesbian establishment that she finds already exists. In many ways Molly tries to become her "own kind" of lesbian and defies convention. It's a much funnier and more hopeful book of self-identity and liberation.

      Another writer who may interest you is David Sedaris, who when he is not being hysterically funny, has some profound thoughts to share about the gay experience. In his coming-out essay, "I Like Guys" (found in his book "Naked") David describes his experience of being gay in middle-school in the south. It was like, he says, being "members of a secret society founded on self-loathing. When a teacher made fun of a real homosexual, I made certain my laugh was louder than anyone else's. When a club member's clothing was thrown into the locker-room toilet, I was always the first to cheer. When it was my clothing, I watched as the faces of my fellow club members broke into recognizable expressions of relief."

      There is a lot of this that goes on, in my estimation, in the bar scene -- everyone trying to objectify and judge everyone else before it can be done to them in return. I've had some good times at bars, but I usually don't stay long, nor is it my primary source of socializing with other gay men. I actually belong to a gay dinner group and a gay book club. My church also has functions directed at gay members.

      Anywho, that's it from the literary desk this week.

      Anyone have any other books work mentioning.

      I haven't even started talking about movies that are helpful, but I first like to encourage people to actually READ A DAMN BOOK for a change!!!! : )

      Peace,
      Scott








      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Robert RigbyJr
      You are looking in the wrong places. My life is filled with gay lesbian and trans friends who don t play games with me, but love me and fill my life. Try a
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 30, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        You are looking in the wrong places. My life is filled with gay lesbian and trans friends who don't play games with me, but love me and fill my life. Try a sports club, or an activist group, or a religious group, or a social group, or a charity group, a social service organization, or somthing like that. I don't know where you live, but here in DC we have a vibrant community focused on shared interests and friendships (as well as social service and political activism) that is about much more than the scene. Spend some time on line looking, and I bet you'll find something in your area.

        Robert

        ccpr76 <ccpr76@...> wrote:
        As said in previous posts, I have both same sex and opposite sex
        attraction. My same sex attraction is probably stronger.

        One thing which makes me feel at odds with my same sex attraction is
        NOT friends, NOT family, NOT religion, NOT society. In fact, all my
        friends and family have been very supportive towards me.

        The thing which made me pursue reparative therapy is the gay scene
        itself. It seems to be a sad lonely place full of self-centered people
        who want nothing more than to play stupid sick games with your mind.
        Originally, I thought I was simply looking in the wrong places but it
        seems to be the same everywhere. Even a gay affirmative group admitted
        the scene was like this.

        How does one resolve this?










        Yahoo! Groups Links










        ---------------------------------
        Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Christine
        I absolutely agree with what Mike has to say. It might be different for guys, I don t know. But I have gotten involved with a women s group through our local
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 30, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          I absolutely agree with what Mike has to say.

          It might be different for guys, I don't know. But I have gotten
          involved with a women's group through our local GLBT center and have
          made some great friends. I don't drink, and neither do a few of the
          folks I hang with. It's been nice to meet other people and discover
          common interests outside bars and so on.

          There's also gay sierra club type groups, gay hiking groups, things
          like that. Obviously if you aren't in a metro area like me, it will be
          more difficult.

          But I'm loving the people I'm meeting in the gay community here in the
          Denver area. I also get together with some folks from
          www.gaychristian.net and that is fun. We have recently gotten together
          to watch the "Fish Can't Fly" documentary, which we followed up with a
          really great discussion.

          Don't fall into the trap that many ex-gay ministries (or ex-gays) fall
          into, where they bad-mouth the whole gay community based on their
          personal (and often limited) experiences.

          Good luck finding some (real) friends with common interests....
        • Jayelle Wiggins
          I just add that if you have a strong sense of yourself and what you re interested in, people who are also interested in those things, of all sexualities, will
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 1, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            I just add that if you have a strong sense of yourself and what you're interested in, people who are also interested in those things, of all sexualities, will come to you. I am also bi; I have met bi and gay friends in groups that are not specifically bi or gay just by being my own self. People at work, people who also love to swim and surf, people who also love animals, people who love Sinead O'Connor and hip-hop music as much as I do. It may help to look not for "other gay people" or "other bi people," but "people I enjoy being with" and "things that I enjoy doing." Shoot, maybe one of those straight friends could have a gay friend or brother they'd like to fix up or something, you never know!!!

            Blessed be,
            Jayelle

            Robert RigbyJr <rrigbyjr@...> wrote:
            You are looking in the wrong places. My life is filled with gay lesbian and trans friends who don't play games with me, but love me and fill my life. Try a sports club, or an activist group, or a religious group, or a social group, or a charity group, a social service organization, or somthing like that. I don't know where you live, but here in DC we have a vibrant community focused on shared interests and friendships (as well as social service and political activism) that is about much more than the scene. Spend some time on line looking, and I bet you'll find something in your area.

            Robert

            ccpr76 <ccpr76@...> wrote:
            As said in previous posts, I have both same sex and opposite sex
            attraction. My same sex attraction is probably stronger.

            One thing which makes me feel at odds with my same sex attraction is
            NOT friends, NOT family, NOT religion, NOT society. In fact, all my
            friends and family have been very supportive towards me.

            The thing which made me pursue reparative therapy is the gay scene
            itself. It seems to be a sad lonely place full of self-centered people
            who want nothing more than to play stupid sick games with your mind.
            Originally, I thought I was simply looking in the wrong places but it
            seems to be the same everywhere. Even a gay affirmative group admitted
            the scene was like this.

            How does one resolve this?

            "If I were God, I would be suing a lot of people for libel."--Sinead O'Connor

            http://www.livejournal.com/~princesswitch - political
            http://crackerlilo.blogspot.com - personal


























            ---------------------------------
            Yahoo! Personals
            Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet.
            Lots of someones, actually. Yahoo! Personals

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.