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Re: "We don't keep statistics. We don't believe in success rates"

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  • Norm
    Exgaywatch.com had a great discussion earlier this month about Exodus own estimates of its success rates: Math By Alan Chambers, Ex-Gays To Take Over World
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 22, 2005
      Exgaywatch.com had a great discussion earlier this month about Exodus'
      own estimates of its success rates:

      "Math By Alan Chambers, Ex-Gays To Take Over World By 2010

      "All of these quotes are from Alan Chambers: [hint, watch the bold text]

      "'While the news is being touted in the homosexual community as
      another sign that homosexuality is genetic, the focus instead should
      be on the thousands of former homosexuals who have experienced freedom
      through Christ, the head of Exodus International said.(*) (2003)

      "'I am one of tens of thousands of people whom have successfully
      changed their sexual orientation.(*) (2004)

      "'Homosexuals need to know they are welcome at their local church,
      but they also need to know that hundreds of thousands of us have found
      freedom from the isolation and emptiness we experienced in gay life
      through the power of Jesus Christ'(*) (2005)

      "I pulled out my hand ExGayWatch pocket-calculator and did some work.
      Sustaining this amazing trend increasing by a power of 10 each year,
      the entire world population of 10 billion people will all be ex-gay in
      2010. I bow down to fellow Long Beach resident Scott for sending me
      these gems."

      Posted by Daniel Gonzales at July 6, 2005 04:04 PM:

      Daniel Gonzales also posted a great graphic depicting Chambers' estimates:

      --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, Korry Korry
      <korrykorrykoan@y...> wrote:
      > That statement from Mr. Wong sums it up for me.
      > __________________________________________________
      > Do You Yahoo!?
      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      > http://mail.yahoo.com
    • Scott Russell
      Did anyone catch Paula Zahn Now on CNN last nite? I missed part one on Wednesday night, but this was apparently part two of a reporting on Love in Action s
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 29, 2005
        Did anyone catch "Paula Zahn Now" on CNN last nite?

        I missed part one on Wednesday night, but this was apparently part two of a reporting on Love in Action's "Refuge" bootcamp for ex-gay teens.

        If this is an accurate report, things have changed FUNDAMENTALLY in their approach.

        Granted, the ex-gay "representative" was obviously un-polished and un-coached -- the word TRAINWRECK comes to mind... If he is indeed an official spokesman, things have changed WILDLY!

        Here's the e-mail I just send Paula:

        Dear Paula,

        Thank you so much for your expose on the ex-gay bootcamp. I was in the ex-gay movement for 10 years. And despite what your guest had to say, this is a FUNDAMENTAL change in their rhetoric. Once upon a time, they did INDEED promise "change" not just behavior modification. I was stunned to hear your guest say that he was "born this way" but is choosing to change his behavior. This is SO different from what I heard for years! They aren't forcing people into loveless marriages anymore? They aren't doing "reparative therapy"?

        And where are the "hundreds of thousands" of people "just like" your guest? There certainly may be that many people who have struggled with their sexual identity, but there I challenge John Smid or anyone with Exodus International to produce even 100,000 people who are successful, long-term ex-gays.

        For me, Paula, the issue comes down to one of community. I know what it is like to want so desperately to fit in and be accepted by the religious right. I was an evangelical for many years, but now I have found a Christian community who accepts me for who I am and has taught me that my sexuality is a gift from God. I never feared that God would reject me, only my family and friends. Well, turns out I needed new friends, and my family has just had to love me as I am -- a choice many families have to make everyday for many other reasons.

        Thank you once again for bringing these issues to light. I'm surprised at how fundamentally they have changed their approach and their promises. If your profile was accurate, I'd say the "ex-gay" movement as we know it will no longer exist in five years.

        Kindest regards -- LOVE your show!


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Goy Veh
        Wong ... also the name of China s currency. Probably just a coincidence, eh? http://g0ys.org ... California
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 30, 2005
          "Wong" ... also the name of China's currency. Probably just a
          coincidence, eh?



          --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, "alankhoo92002"
          <alankhoo92002@y...> wrote:
          > Hi people,
          > This Melvin Wong is capitalizing on homophobia and
          > ignorance in South East Asia to promote his
          > "conversion therapy".
          > In this report, he is claimed to be a professor at the Uni
          > If I remember correctly,
          > last time in Singapore, he was described as a
          > professor at the Uni California San Francisco. Looks
          > like they now make it sound vague by not mentioning
          > which Uni Cali. Even the Exodus site states that he
          > WAS a faculty and does not claim that he is a faculty.
          > Can we do something about this once and for all? Can UCSF Dept of
          > Psychiatry issue a note disclaiming him?
          > Thanks.
          > Alan
          > "Going straight?"
          > New Straits Times, Malaysia (www.nst.com.my)
          > (16/07/05) Yong
          > Tiam Kui
          > Mental health professionals have differing views about
          > whether homosexuality is a curable psychological
          > disorder. YONG TIAM KUI speaks to two of them.
          > YES. You can, through prayers and guidance:
          > GAYS and bisexuals can change their sexual orientation
          > through a programme of prayer and guidance from others
          > who have gone through a similar conversion process.
          > US-based clinical psychologist and theologian Dr
          > Melvin W. Wong made this claim during a seminar
          > organised by Malaysian CARE entitled "The Reality of
          > Homosexuality" in Petaling Jaya recently.
          > "Bisexuals can change. Gays can change, too," says
          > Wong, chairman of the board of Exodus Global Alliance,
          > an international Christian organisation which helps
          > people who are "sexually broken". "The memories of
          > years of sexual experience won't go away. But, the
          > same sex attraction paradigm can be changed
          > altogether. "They don't just stop the sexual
          > behaviour. We take away the motivation, the
          > psychological underpinning of the behaviour. "The
          > degree of change boils down to motivation ... how much
          > the person wants to change."
          > Wong, who is assistant clinical professor and
          > attending psychologist in the Department of Psychiatry
          > of the University of California, says a gay
          > orientation is created primarily by distant fathers.
          > He says homosexual tendencies can develop if a father
          > pushes his son away or if divorce occurs within the
          > first three years of a boy's life. The one-and-a-half
          > to three-year period of a child's life is critical, he
          > adds, because this is when gender identity imprinting
          > takes place.
          > Wong, who is also director of the graduate level
          > pastoral counselling programme of the Hong Kong
          > Baptist Theological Seminary, says a homosexual
          > orientation can also develop as a result of sexual
          > abuse, sexual molestation or inappropriate sexual
          > experimentation. "Gays go through a never-ending
          > search for that perfect father or male figure that
          > never existed in his life."They have a neurotic need
          > to satisfy the need for masculine inclusion. They are
          > constantly looking for something that they lack in
          > men." He says EGA helps to fill this need by providing
          > "care and acceptance of same sex individuals in the
          > absence of a sexual relationship". "EGA is essentially
          > a self-help group like Alcoholics Anonymous. But,
          > unlike AA, the religious aspect is very heavily
          > emphasised. "We have a lot of Bible study, worship and
          > guidance from former strugglers who can show them the
          > way. "They study the Bible, pray and listen to the
          > stories of other people and they change. "There is a
          > lot of disciplining by former strugglers (former
          > gays). Older brothers taking care of younger brothers.
          > "This allows them to develop a sense of inclusion.
          > Many of them say 'I used to believe I was less than a
          > guy. Now I feel I am one of the guys?"
          > Wong claims that EGA has helped tens of thousands of
          > gays and bisexuals change their sexual orientation in
          > its 30 years of existence but he could not provide any
          > supporting statistics. "We don't keep statistics. We
          > don't believe in success rates. "We want gays to
          > realise that despite their homosexuality, God loves
          > them. They are struggling and they have no hope and I
          > am saying that there is an option."
          > ---snip---
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