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Re: and Salvation

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  • Korry Korry
    ... Well, don´t follow Othello´s example for one (that´s where the line comes from, btw.) __________________________________ Celebrate Yahoo! s 10th
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 3, 2005
      --- nyguy_1225 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      > Well then, how would you define loving wisely? And
      > perhaps of equal
      > importance, what would be your idea of having your
      > intimacy needs
      > met in a healthy way?

      Well, don�t follow Othello�s example for one (that�s
      where the line comes from, btw.)




      __________________________________
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      Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
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    • nyguy_1225
      Korry, the question was intended for YOU. I was asking for your words and your thoughts, not those of someone you happened to read about. You claim to have
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 3, 2005
        Korry, the question was intended for YOU. I was asking for your
        words and your thoughts, not those of someone you happened to read
        about. You claim to have seen a lot in your two-score-plus years --
        and indeed you have. You discovered, for example, involving
        yourself with the people you meet in the bar scene is not going to
        be the way to make a better life for yourself. I think that's a
        good lesson to learn. I believe your exact words were: "I was
        really turned off by the quality of guys I saw again and again and
        again in bars: bitchy, screamy, nasty, and petty."

        You also learned the promise of the "ex-gay" movement is, in fact,
        an empty promise and a lie. That's important to know too. You
        observed: "No one I met could give me a direct answer when I talked
        about sexual feelings. It was all about how their dads didn't love
        them, about how sinful and sleazy the "lifestyle" is, about the ever
        present threat of temptation...but no one ever posted anything about
        really getting turned on by the opposite sex."

        You learned that sexual addiction is not the ticket either and
        moreover is destructive and unhealthy. Another excellent lesson.
        You acknowledged: "About five years ago I crashed and burned by a
        resurgence of sexual addiction that I had thought I had left back in
        New York."

        You've talked again and again about what you've seen in life -- and
        you've done so in a similar manner as that of the writer of the book
        of Ecclesiastes, who had also tasted much of life, and he concluded
        that "everything [was] meaningless." However, we learn from
        Ecclesiastes that the assembler of this book looked only inside
        himself. He had no transcendent or Archimedean reference point and
        no revelation. However, the underlying theme of the book
        Ecclesiastes is that if you don't want to get bogged down in
        this "everything is meaningless" quagmire -- then go to God.

        What's your "theme?" What have you discovered after tasting what
        you've tasted? What have you concluded? Again I ask you, how do
        you love wisely in this world in which you live? And how do you get
        your intimacy needs met in a healthy way?

        It can be helpful (and healthy) to vent and complain about the crap
        we've seen and experienced in life for a season or two. Finding
        one's way in life is not easy. But if we choose "life" and "health"
        we must eventually must stop our cursing of the darkness and light a
        candle, as the old cliché admonishes. We all must learn to do
        that "wisely" (to quote your word) if we're going to live a healthy
        and a full life. For your perusal (and that of others on this
        board) I just posted in the files section a poignant article by
        Jeremy Marks titled "The Search for Intimacy." I think he makes
        some very good points on a theme that seems to have been repeatedly
        tossed around here lately. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on
        it (and the thoughts of anyone else who may wish to comment).

        -Alex


        --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, Korry Korry
        <korrykorrykoan@y...> wrote:
        >
        > --- nyguy_1225 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
        >
        > > Well then, how would you define loving wisely? And
        > > perhaps of equal
        > > importance, what would be your idea of having your
        > > intimacy needs
        > > met in a healthy way?
        >
        > Well, don´t follow Othello´s example for one (that´s
        > where the line comes from, btw.)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
        > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
        > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
        > http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
      • Jayelle Wiggins
        I m gonna do the best I can do/ Cause I m my best when I m with you...I know in the past love/Has been sort of hard in you/But I see the God in you/I just
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 4, 2005
          "I'm gonna do the best I can do/'Cause I'm my best when I'm with you...I know in the past love/Has been sort of hard in you/But I see the God in you/I just want to nurture it/Though this love may hurt a bit...Truth is I can't hide from you/The pimp in me/May have to die for you."--Common, "Come Close"

          Loving wisely to me means:


          Knowing your partner's strengths, and respecting him or her for them.
          Knowing your partner's weaknesses, and loving her or him for rather than despite them.
          Letting your partner see your strengths and weaknesses.
          Understanding that a weakness is often a dark underside or too much of a strength. (For example, "He tells the funniest stories" can morph into "He never shuts up" very quickly.)
          Understanding exactly what kind of and how much shit you can and can not take.
          Wanting your partner to be his or her best.
          Feeling that you are at your best when your partner is around.
          Feeling that you are better for having met and continuing to be around your partner, and that s/he can say the same about you.
          Respecting yourself when your partner is around and when s/he is not.

          I love to talk about love, and I consider that list a good start when it comes to deliniating what constitutes "loving wisely." I look forward to others' definitions.

          B*B,

          Jayelle


          nyguy_1225 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          <<But I do warn you, that you can only put off your need for
          intimacy for so long in life before it does a kamikaze number on
          your soul. Just remember to, as Shakespeare put it, love wisely
          rather than too well.>>

          Well then, how would you define loving wisely? And perhaps of equal
          importance, what would be your idea of having your intimacy needs
          met in a healthy way?

          (I presume you would agree that our need for intimacy was placed
          there by God in the first place. Clearly this human longing for
          intimacy has been recognized and recorded from the beginning of time
          when God expressed his concern for Adam, because it was not good for
          man to be alone.)

          "I'm a fighter *and* a lover."--Mos Def, "Ghetto Rock"

          http://www.livejournal.com/~princesswitch





















          ---------------------------------
          Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
          Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jayelle Wiggins
          *pssst* http://quotations.about.com Or do like me, and don t be afraid to put in whatever lyric grabs you from your favorite song or low-culture book. B*B,
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 4, 2005
            *pssst*

            http://quotations.about.com

            Or do like me, and don't be afraid to put in whatever lyric grabs
            you from your favorite song or low-culture book.

            B*B,
            Jayelle

            --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, Dannyzahalfangel@a... wrote:
            >> p.s. = its sad b/c i'm not the kind of gay guy who reads such
            theories and
            > shakespeare instead i read of vampyres, and horror - is that a
            good thing or bad
            > lol, 'cause everyone always has quotes to say but me lol ;
            p ... 'nite
            > peoples.
          • Jayelle Wiggins
            *pssst* http://quotations.about.com Or do like me, and don t be afraid to put in whatever lyric grabs you from your favorite song or low-culture book. B*B,
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 4, 2005
              *pssst*

              http://quotations.about.com

              Or do like me, and don't be afraid to put in whatever lyric grabs
              you from your favorite song or low-culture book.

              B*B,
              Jayelle

              --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, Dannyzahalfangel@a... wrote:
              >> p.s. = its sad b/c i'm not the kind of gay guy who reads such
              theories and
              > shakespeare instead i read of vampyres, and horror - is that a
              good thing or bad
              > lol, 'cause everyone always has quotes to say but me lol ;
              p ... 'nite
              > peoples.
            • Jayelle Wiggins
              Korry Korry wrote: Oh Danny boy. You´re twenty-two and you´re laying this sin-and-judgement trip on yourself? As a wizened and
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 4, 2005
                Korry Korry <korrykorrykoan@...> wrote:

                Oh Danny boy. You�re twenty-two and you�re laying this
                sin-and-judgement trip on yourself? As a wizened and
                jaded geezer of 42 years looking back on my life, I
                reccommend that you give that up.

                >>That answers a question.<<

                A monk friend explained that the parable of the man
                who exorcised the seven demons from his home only to
                have them return in legion is a metaphor for what
                happens when rely purely on guilt and fear to guide
                us. It�s all stick and no carrot, and without a
                positive motivation life quickly loses any real
                meaning.

                >>A few years ago, I interviewed Norm for an article on ex-gay ministries--remember that, Norm?--and he said something *really* good about how his spiritual life had gotten to be all about overcoming his homosexuality. I bet Norm could elaborate on that. I think one thing that drew us all here, whether we'd gone through the program or whatever, is that we got convinced of that at some point, and then suspected that there is far more to spirituality than suppressing one's sexuality.

                Personally, I think pain and feeling bad have gotten way too much promotion and way too much press. They are overrated. Let's see what true happiness does for us for a while; give it a chance.<<

                That�s the major failing of ex-gay ministries, by the
                way. They are often brilliant at going on about
                what�s dysfunctional in the gay community, but come up
                short in following through on fulfilling
                heterosexuality. In my time on the ex-gay forums,
                whenever I asked about the joys of straight romance,
                they�d keep going on about how horrible gay life was.


                >>Isn't that the weirdest thing?! Yet the gay people I know (male and female) who "just fell in love" and still identify as queer go on about how wonderful their spouses or partners are, and have a realistic view of their queer community. Says a lot about these programs, I think.<<

                However, I also wouldn�t reccommend, Danny, that you
                head off to your local curciut party and booze, dope,
                and fuck yourself into oblivion. The urban gay
                mentality that makes sex a religion is equally
                destructive, in my judgement.


                >>I would agree with that, but I also think there is far more than one gay mentality, or even urban gay mentality. Danny, I would recommend going to the political groups (especially the pro-marriage ones--the singles there want commitment!), athletic groups (socializing in daylight with a minimum of alcohol, and you get good exercise), and churches like the Metropolitan Community or Unitarian church.<<


                But I do warn you, that you can only put off your need
                for intimacy for so long in life before it does a
                kamikaze number on your soul. Just remember to, as
                Shakespeare put it, love wisely rather than too well.


                >>Good advice for us all, Korry.<<

                Blessed be,

                >>Jayelle<<




                "I'm a fighter *and* a lover."--Mos Def, "Ghetto Rock"

                http://www.livejournal.com/~princesswitch





















                ---------------------------------
                Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

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