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Bidding Adieu

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  • stryped_tigger
    I am posting this because, when I leave the group, many will not know why. So that people here will not question why I left/am leaving, I will tell you here.
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 30, 2005
      I am posting this because, when I leave the group, many will not know
      why. So that people here will not question why I left/am leaving, I
      will tell you here.

      Since coming out (and even some before that), I had been having an
      extremely difficult time with regards to religion. No matter where I
      go, if I am myself, I don't fit. I have tried every kind of church
      out there and every kind of church "thing" that I can think of, in
      order to fit somewhere...to have somewhere to belong. The church I
      was pastor in when I came out basically found out that I was gay and
      rejected me. I have never gotten over that. When I moved to
      Portland, to be with my ex partner, I was abused (physically,
      mentally, and emotionally) by him. While in that process of living
      with him, I reached out to many christian people that were here that I
      had met online, and they basically stayed away and said that they
      didn't have time for me. They came across at first like they REALLY
      wanted to be my friend, however they were NOT there when I needed a
      friend the most. I have tried several kinds of churches and religious
      "things" and don't really fit into anything, so, at least for now, I
      am bidding farewell to all things religious (as far as organizations
      are concerned...I am rejecting nobody here), until I can figure out
      within myself what to do.

      Thanks for letting me ramble,

      Chris
    • Drew VanDyche
      Chris: I am sorry that you feel that you have to leave, but I understand what it is like to put out the plea for help and not find what you are looking for.
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 30, 2005
        Chris:
        I am sorry that you feel that you have to leave, but I understand what it is like to put out the plea for help and not find what you are looking for. For a long time I felt too gay for the christian world and too christian for the gay world. I had to follow and seek out assistance in many different areas and now I am in therapy (though quite expensive if I didn't have a good medical plan) with an amazing man who is doing more for me than I could have believed. But it took years of being a seeker and slowly finding healing, little by little that finally brought me to this point. A point where I don't live every moment of my day, expending all of my energy trying to get my needs met. I wish the best for you and don't give up! My prayers and thoughts go with you.
        Love in His Care,
        Drew

        stryped_tigger <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

        I am posting this because, when I leave the group, many will not know
        why. So that people here will not question why I left/am leaving, I
        will tell you here.

        Since coming out (and even some before that), I had been having an
        extremely difficult time with regards to religion. No matter where I
        go, if I am myself, I don't fit. I have tried every kind of church
        out there and every kind of church "thing" that I can think of, in
        order to fit somewhere...to have somewhere to belong. The church I
        was pastor in when I came out basically found out that I was gay and
        rejected me. I have never gotten over that. When I moved to
        Portland, to be with my ex partner, I was abused (physically,
        mentally, and emotionally) by him. While in that process of living
        with him, I reached out to many christian people that were here that I
        had met online, and they basically stayed away and said that they
        didn't have time for me. They came across at first like they REALLY
        wanted to be my friend, however they were NOT there when I needed a
        friend the most. I have tried several kinds of churches and religious
        "things" and don't really fit into anything, so, at least for now, I
        am bidding farewell to all things religious (as far as organizations
        are concerned...I am rejecting nobody here), until I can figure out
        within myself what to do.

        Thanks for letting me ramble,

        Chris




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        Drew VanDyche
        aka: Drewcifer, Drewski, Drewblood...
        http://profiles.yahoo.com/vandyche



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • nyguy_1225
        Hi Chris, I ve been pretty busy these days and therefore have not been as strong a presence on this board as I customarily am (this is when having a
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 31, 2005
          Hi Chris,
          I've been pretty busy these days and therefore have not been as
          strong a presence on this board as I customarily am (this is when
          having a co-moderator can be a real blessing). However, I've been
          perusing the posts and spotted yours.

          I just wanted an opportunity to say that as a Christian for almost
          25 years I've seen the best of the church and the worst of it. And
          there have been plenty of times I've been more than a little
          disappointed in it. In fact, I've often thought of getting a tee
          shirt that says: "Jesus is wonderful, but His followers will be the
          death of me."

          And sometimes we need to express our disenchantment with the
          church. Flannery O'Connor said: "Sometimes we must suffer as much
          from the church as for the church." And then she goes on to
          say, "Nevertheless the church is the only institution that stands
          between us and a world that is appalling when I consider where it is
          and the direction in which it is moving." So we remain loyal to the
          church because this is the body of Christ.

          If we would have said to the apostle Paul, "I'm a Christian but I
          don't belong to the church." He would have said you're out of your
          mind. I don't know what you're talking about. This is the
          fellowship, the community of those who have given themselves to Him,
          who have been called to be his body.

          Of course, we have also failed the church and the church has failed
          us. There isn't any doubt about that. The church isn't perfect.
          But the church's imperfection does not contradict the gospel. The
          church's imperfection is an expression of the gospel. It is the
          gospel that says that our nature is fallen, even the nature of good
          people.

          We ought to be thankful to God that the church is imperfect because
          if this church was perfect, you wouldn't get in. And neither would
          I. We complain the church is less than it ought to be. If the
          church were perfect which of us would be a candidate for it?
          Because we would bring our imperfections with us. The glory of the
          church is not the sanctity of its members but the holiness of the
          church is Christ, who calls us to be more like him. And it is by
          grace we belong to the church. It is preached not only in its
          message but in its very existence.

          We've also heard negative things about America in recent years. But
          I believe some have hit the nail on the head who have said
          that "America is an idea than has become an ideal that is never
          perfectly realized." I think that's a pretty good description of
          America. Samuel Huntington, a great historian ended one of his
          books on American politics with the following:

          "Critics say that America is lie because its reality falls far short
          of its ideals. They are wrong. America is not a lie, it is a
          disappointment. But it can be a disappointment only because it is
          also a hope."

          You take those words and apply them to the church and then one has
          it exactly right. Those who are critical say the church is lie. It
          is not a lie, it is a disappointment. But it can be a
          disappointment like America only because it is a hope.

          So when people say to me, "Well I wouldn't belong to a church
          because they're just a bunch of hypocrites." I say, "You're
          absolutely right. That's why there's always room for one more! Why
          don't you come on down?" That's the nature of it. The
          disappointment that is the church does not deny the Christian
          gospel, it expresses it.

          Don't let the disappointment of the church or its inhabitants
          deprive you of your rightful place in it. Christ will NEVER be a
          disappointment. Christianity has always been richer, fuller, wider
          and deeper than any one man or group's expression of it. Allow
          yourself time to heal but don't throw out the baby with the bath
          water.

          Just some food for thought,
          -Alex


          --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, stryped_tigger
          <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          >
          > I am posting this because, when I leave the group, many will not
          know
          > why. So that people here will not question why I left/am leaving,
          I
          > will tell you here.
          >
          > Since coming out (and even some before that), I had been having an
          > extremely difficult time with regards to religion. No matter
          where I
          > go, if I am myself, I don't fit. I have tried every kind of church
          > out there and every kind of church "thing" that I can think of, in
          > order to fit somewhere...to have somewhere to belong. The church I
          > was pastor in when I came out basically found out that I was gay
          and
          > rejected me. I have never gotten over that. When I moved to
          > Portland, to be with my ex partner, I was abused (physically,
          > mentally, and emotionally) by him. While in that process of living
          > with him, I reached out to many christian people that were here
          that I
          > had met online, and they basically stayed away and said that they
          > didn't have time for me. They came across at first like they REALLY
          > wanted to be my friend, however they were NOT there when I needed a
          > friend the most. I have tried several kinds of churches and
          religious
          > "things" and don't really fit into anything, so, at least for now,
          I
          > am bidding farewell to all things religious (as far as
          organizations
          > are concerned...I am rejecting nobody here), until I can figure out
          > within myself what to do.
          >
          > Thanks for letting me ramble,
          >
          > Chris
        • Scott Russell
          Thanks for sharing Chris, you certainly are not alone. I work with the LGBT college students on my campus, and SO MANY of them are completely alienated from
          Message 4 of 5 , Jan 31, 2005
            Thanks for sharing Chris, you certainly are not alone.

            I work with the LGBT college students on my campus, and SO MANY of them are completely alienated from organized religion. As a priest, all I can do is remain patient with them on their individual journies.

            Perhaps the lesson we all should take away from this is that God is not to be found in the institution, but the Body of Christ instead. If you cannot find a church to call your home, don't neglect the community of Christians and other people of faith in your life.

            Just a few thoughts.

            Peace to you,
            Scott+


            stryped_tigger <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

            I am posting this because, when I leave the group, many will not know
            why. So that people here will not question why I left/am leaving, I
            will tell you here.

            Since coming out (and even some before that), I had been having an
            extremely difficult time with regards to religion. No matter where I
            go, if I am myself, I don't fit. I have tried every kind of church
            out there and every kind of church "thing" that I can think of, in
            order to fit somewhere...to have somewhere to belong. The church I
            was pastor in when I came out basically found out that I was gay and
            rejected me. I have never gotten over that. When I moved to
            Portland, to be with my ex partner, I was abused (physically,
            mentally, and emotionally) by him. While in that process of living
            with him, I reached out to many christian people that were here that I
            had met online, and they basically stayed away and said that they
            didn't have time for me. They came across at first like they REALLY
            wanted to be my friend, however they were NOT there when I needed a
            friend the most. I have tried several kinds of churches and religious
            "things" and don't really fit into anything, so, at least for now, I
            am bidding farewell to all things religious (as far as organizations
            are concerned...I am rejecting nobody here), until I can figure out
            within myself what to do.

            Thanks for letting me ramble,

            Chris




            Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
            Children InternationalWould you give Hope to a Child in need? �Click Here to meet a Girl
            And Give Her Hope�Click Here to meet a Boy
            And Change His Life Learn More

            ---------------------------------
            Yahoo! Groups Links

            To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exexgayministry/

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            exexgayministry-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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            The Rev D Scott Russell
            Episcopal Campus Minister to Virginia Tech
            syzygy121@...

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Drew VanDyche
            I think we need to remember that the Church (in Christ) in bible times was not what we have today. Churches of today actually resemble the zigurrat temples of
            Message 5 of 5 , Jan 31, 2005
              I think we need to remember that the Church (in Christ) in bible times was not what we have today. Churches of today actually resemble the zigurrat temples of pagan religion. The ziggurat temple is a pyramid with one MAN on top, a group of men elders below him, below that, a circle of young men who desperately want to "be" somebody, waiting to be called out, approved and released into the ministry and below that the peon men, the women and the children. It was never God's intention to have an unbalanced male dominated, polarized christian culture and society like we have today. All that God is, can only be reflected in an integration of masculine and feminine. The Church was a family and gathered in people's homes, it was a cell church and that is the Church that I belong to. There are no "out of order" issues to deal with, and no one who rules the roost. Those who lash the whip of "don't forsake the assembling of the brethren" have a difficult time reconciling that for some of us,
              living our life in community and fellowship with others on a daily basis is truly the better model rather than the Sunday Christian.

              Thanks for listening.

              Drew



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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