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RE: Re: [ExExGayMinistry] Re: i do exist

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  • Matthew Gardiner
    ... salvation. ... But Christ ... foreign land ... that they ... Nor should they, but they should also realise that they too are human and are subject to
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 6, 2004
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      > This make me think about the number of people who come to Christ for
      salvation.
      > Out of the whole number of people born what percent are born again.
      But Christ
      > would have died for just one person to repent. Missionaries go to a
      foreign land
      > and may see one or two converts in their life time. Does that mean
      that they
      > should give up.

      Nor should they, but they should also realise that they too are human
      and are subject to making errors. To simply set up camp around the
      world, declare everyone elses belief systems invalid, then demand
      conversion on mass is at the least arrogance and in the worst, bigotry
      of the highest order.

      > Maybe only a few men change their orientation. Does than mean that we
      should
      > discourage anyone else from trying. I believe that I am happier now
      than when
      > I was trying to find men. I was happier before I thought of finding
      one. I
      > didn't get married to try to change my orientation. That doesn't
      sound like
      > the right reason to get married But lots of people get married for
      the wrong
      > reasons.

      Before you go further, why did you need to find men? why was there this
      driving idea of *having* to have a man? for me, and I'm sure most people
      here, most people don't get hung up if they're single, if Mr Right pops
      up, sure, no problems, bt I am sure none of the guys or girls here are
      losing sleep not having a partner; what you should have been question is
      not your homosexuality by why you have this overwhelming desire of
      feeling like you have to have a companion; are you trying to escape from
      something? using religion and relationships to hide from the real problem.

      > So now we have guys marrying guys and women marrying women. so that means
      > we can divorce them right? where does this lead? Dale

      And why would that be an issue? we've seen the religious right running
      hand in hand with Fox screaming the virtues of marriage, but of course,
      according to their double standard, there is nothing wrong with 4 dozen
      screaming lasses competing for a bachelor, or the "on the show
      marriages" we seeing being broadcasted like some sort of game show.

      Maybe if these churches who rally against homosexuality and same sex
      unions want to get some legitimacy, they first should get their house in
      order before dictating to all and sundry about what people can and can't
      do in the privacy of their own home with a partner of conscenting age.

      Just look at the train wreck, Terry Randall, after married to his loyal
      wife for over a decade, he trades her in for a younger model; Rupert
      Murdoch, wife loyal to him for 34 years, knew him when he was nothing
      but an manager of a two bit newspaper in Victoria, what did he do? he
      divorced and traded his loyal wife of 34 years in for a younger model.
      Need I go on? how about Nwet Gingrich who was doing a bit of slap and
      tickle behind his wifes back, the wife who was lying in hospital
      fighting for her life with cancer.

      The train wreck of marriage in the conservative Christian following is
      nothing to be proud about and should be addressed before these people
      start throwing stones at perceived evils they claim they see, according
      to their lack of insight about the bible and intepreting it.

      Matty
    • dixibehr@aol.com
      ... And don t forget, Randall Terry, the outspoken opponent of homosexuality and abortion has an openly gay son and he ran off his own teenaged daughter when
      Message 2 of 22 , Oct 6, 2004
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        In a message dated 10/6/04 8:31:50 AM, kaiwai@... writes:


        > Just look at the train wreck, Terry Randall, after married to his loyal
        > wife for over a decade, he trades her in for a younger model;
        >

        And don't forget, Randall Terry, the outspoken opponent of homosexuality and
        abortion has an openly gay son and he ran off his own teenaged daughter when
        she got pregnant in high school.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Matthew Gardiner
        ... Yeap, I remember that. A son who is gay, a daughter who got pregnant and school, and IIRC, the third daughter converted to Islam. So not only a train
        Message 3 of 22 , Oct 6, 2004
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          Dixibehr@... wrote:

          >
          > In a message dated 10/6/04 8:31:50 AM, kaiwai@... writes:
          >
          >
          >> Just look at the train wreck, Terry Randall, after married to his loyal
          >> wife for over a decade, he trades her in for a younger model;
          >
          >
          >
          > And don't forget, Randall Terry, the outspoken opponent of
          > homosexuality and abortion has an openly gay son and he ran off his
          > own teenaged daughter when she got pregnant in high school.

          Yeap, I remember that. A son who is gay, a daughter who got pregnant
          and school, and IIRC, the third daughter converted to Islam.

          So not only a train wreck marriage but a train wreck family life; but
          then again, its typical of these people, they would give advice to
          everyone else rather than them getting their house in order.

          Can you blame people who have anti-Christian feelings? especially when
          you see the hypocracy that is spread by Christians. The double standards
          of "do what I say, not as I do". Churches who decry homosexuality, and
          yet, say nothing on issues such as child abuse, divorce, domestic
          violence etc. etc.

          What the hypocracy has done is pushed my family away from Christianity;
          my father no longer wants any association with the Catholic Church after
          the hypocratic and homophobic Bishop Pell was promoted to Cardinal, as
          for my sister, brother and I, we no longer want a religion that dictates
          to us.

          For my sister and I, we converted to Buddhism over 10 years ago and
          haven't looked back; we're no longer dictated to by priests and self
          appointed gurus. My "lifestyle choice" as Christians like to call it is
          never questioned as the more important things such as respecting others
          take a higher presidence over what people do behind closed doors. My
          brother and mother are agnostic; they would rather believe in a God
          without all the baggage associated with his fan club on earth.

          Matty
        • nyguy_1225
          Message 4 of 22 , Oct 7, 2004
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            <<What the hypocracy has done is pushed my family away from
            Christianity; my father no longer wants any association with the
            Catholic Church after the hypocratic and homophobic Bishop Pell was
            promoted to Cardinal, as for my sister, brother and I, we no longer
            want a religion that dictates to us.>>

            I can well understand how hypocrisy can turn people off to God and
            religion. I see it all the time and have had to personally grapple
            with it myself. But for those who end up throwing out the baby with
            the bath water, so to speak, isn't that somewhat akin to refusing to
            eat again just because mom burned the brownies? I guess the
            question that comes to my mind is: if you, your sister and your
            brother no longer want a religion (or a God) that dictates to you,
            then what kind of religion and God do you want? The kind where you
            dictate to him? Surely there must be healthier balance we can
            achieve.

            -Alex


            --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Gardiner
            <kaiwai@v...> wrote:
            >
            > Dixibehr@a... wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > In a message dated 10/6/04 8:31:50 AM, kaiwai@v... writes:
            > >
            > >
            > >> Just look at the train wreck, Terry Randall, after married to
            his loyal
            > >> wife for over a decade, he trades her in for a younger model;
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > And don't forget, Randall Terry, the outspoken opponent of
            > > homosexuality and abortion has an openly gay son and he ran off
            his
            > > own teenaged daughter when she got pregnant in high school.
            >
            > Yeap, I remember that. A son who is gay, a daughter who got
            pregnant
            > and school, and IIRC, the third daughter converted to Islam.
            >
            > So not only a train wreck marriage but a train wreck family life;
            but
            > then again, its typical of these people, they would give advice to
            > everyone else rather than them getting their house in order.
            >
            > Can you blame people who have anti-Christian feelings? especially
            when
            > you see the hypocracy that is spread by Christians. The double
            standards
            > of "do what I say, not as I do". Churches who decry homosexuality,
            and
            > yet, say nothing on issues such as child abuse, divorce, domestic
            > violence etc. etc.
            >
            > What the hypocracy has done is pushed my family away from
            Christianity;
            > my father no longer wants any association with the Catholic Church
            after
            > the hypocratic and homophobic Bishop Pell was promoted to
            Cardinal, as
            > for my sister, brother and I, we no longer want a religion that
            dictates
            > to us.
            >
            > For my sister and I, we converted to Buddhism over 10 years ago
            and
            > haven't looked back; we're no longer dictated to by priests and
            self
            > appointed gurus. My "lifestyle choice" as Christians like to call
            it is
            > never questioned as the more important things such as respecting
            others
            > take a higher presidence over what people do behind closed doors.
            My
            > brother and mother are agnostic; they would rather believe in a
            God
            > without all the baggage associated with his fan club on earth.
            >
            > Matty
          • Matthew Gardiner
            ... Agreed, but the thing is my family haven t turn off religion, we ve turned off from the organised religion, the religion that demands alligence to the
            Message 5 of 22 , Oct 7, 2004
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              nyguy_1225 wrote:

              ><<What the hypocracy has done is pushed my family away from
              >Christianity; my father no longer wants any association with the
              >Catholic Church after the hypocratic and homophobic Bishop Pell was
              >promoted to Cardinal, as for my sister, brother and I, we no longer
              >want a religion that dictates to us.>>
              >
              >I can well understand how hypocrisy can turn people off to God and
              >religion. I see it all the time and have had to personally grapple
              >with it myself. But for those who end up throwing out the baby with
              >the bath water, so to speak, isn't that somewhat akin to refusing to
              >eat again just because mom burned the brownies? I guess the
              >question that comes to my mind is: if you, your sister and your
              >brother no longer want a religion (or a God) that dictates to you,
              >then what kind of religion and God do you want? The kind where you
              >dictate to him? Surely there must be healthier balance we can
              >achieve.
              >
              >-Alex
              >
              >

              Agreed, but the thing is my family haven't turn off religion, we've
              turned off from the organised religion, the religion that demands
              alligence to the organisation rather than getting the followers to think
              for themselves. Sure, my family believe in God, Jesus and the good works
              of them, but they no longer associate themselves with a particular
              denomination. So you could still say they're "Christian" but not part of
              the established fan clubs.

              Matty
              --

              "If a nation could not prosper without the enjoyment of
              perfect liberty and perfect justice, there is not in
              the world a nation which could ever have prospered." -
              The Wealth of Nations, Book IV, Chapter IX
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