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Re: [ExExGayMinistry] Re: Greetings!

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  • Kurt G
    Hey Norm! Glad to meet you! Did you happen to read the article in the Willamette Week a week or two ago? They did an article on the ex-gay movement and
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 12, 2004
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      Hey Norm!

      Glad to meet you!

      Did you happen to read the article in the Willamette
      Week a week or two ago? They did an article on the
      ex-gay movement and Portland Fellowship in particular.
      A friend gave my name to the reporter and I talked to
      him for about an hour and a half but they didn't quote
      me or use my story because they were looking for
      people with experience with the local group. It is an
      interesting article and certainly not unfair to either
      side.

      You can read it online here:

      http://www.wweek.com/story.php?story=5343

      Glad to see another Portlander online!
      Kurt
      --- Norm <nojam75@...> wrote:

      > Hi Kurt and everyone! Thanks for joining our group
      > and sharing your
      > stories. Wow, Kurt, what a lousy day to pick to
      > move cross
      > country.
      >
      > I'm a rare native Portlander and, similar to you, I
      > "came out" at a
      > college ministry about nine years ago when I was 19.
      > I participated
      > in the local ex-gay group, The Portland Fellowship,
      > for almost two
      > years (I also earned an "ex-gay diploma"). However,
      > I realized that
      > I was worse off than I when I started and decided to
      > re-think the ex-
      > gay and fundamentalist Christian ideas. Also
      > similar to your
      > journey, I started a Yahoo! group, this one, to
      > hopefully share
      > experiences with other former ex-gay participants.
      >
      > I haven't participated in this group lately, but I
      > am glad that
      > nyguy has continued the group.
      >
      > Norm! aka nojam75
      >
      > --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt"
      > <koenbear@y...> wrote:
      > > Hello all,
      > >
      > > I just joined the group and thought I would
      > put out a quick
      > > introduction.
      > >
      > > My name is Kurt and I live with my partner in
      > Portland, OR. I am
      > > now 33 but was a part of the ex-gay movement for
      > about 10 years.
      > I
      > > came out at 18, but quickly went back in the
      > closet at 19 when I
      > had
      > > a conversion experience and started going to a
      > conservative
      > > Christian church. My involvement in a local
      > ex-gay ministry in
      > the
      > > San Jose, CA area started at about the same time.
      > I spent 2 years
      > > in that program and even got a diploma showing
      > that I had
      > graduated.
      > >
      > > A few years later, in my mid-20's, I went back to
      > school in
      > > Minnesota to study for the ministry in the
      > Wisconsin Evangelical
      > > Lutheran Synod. In school, I was told not to tell
      > people even
      > that
      > > I "had been" gay, so I was completely closeted,
      > both as gay and ex-
      > > gay. Wanting someone to talk to I created a Yahoo
      > group called
      > 611
      > > (from 1 Corinthians 6:11). That list was grew to
      > about 100 people
      > > and was around for a few years.
      > >
      > > In my ministry life, I had been assigned as a
      > minister in San
      > > Antonio, TX. While I was there, I was told that I
      > was being
      > > considered for a ministry position at a small
      > congregation in
      > > Brazil. The catch: they don't normally send
      > single guys on
      > foreign
      > > missions. So, thinking it was what God wanted for
      > my life, I got
      > > married, was assigned to Brazil and moved there in
      > November.
      > >
      > > Brazil is where the shit hit the fan. Our
      > marriage did not go
      > > well. On a trip back to the U.S. issues about my
      > sexuality came
      > > out. Long story short: I was told that I wasn't
      > fit for ministry
      > > because I might molest a teenager (never mind that
      > I had no
      > history
      > > of that or anything that might indicate I would).
      > >
      > > On September 10th of 2001 I left my wife, my
      > career, and my
      > church.
      > > I stayed overnight in a motel in San Antonio, TX
      > intending to fly
      > to
      > > Portland, OR the next day. That never happened
      > because of the
      > > terrorist attacks in New York and at the Pentagon.
      > Instead I
      > drove
      > > the 2,4000 miles and attmepted to start my life
      > over.
      > >
      > > The good news is that there is a happy ending: I
      > met my partner 2
      > > weeks after I got here. That was 3 years ago. We
      > just bought a
      > > home together. I am back in school pursuing a
      > Masters of
      > Divinity,
      > > and I am a candidate for ordination in the United
      > Church of Christ.
      > >
      > > Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to make a
      > quick
      > introduction
      > > and let y'all know that I'm here.
      > >
      > > You can read about stuff I write about here:
      > > http://outsidethebox.blogs.com
      > >
      > > Any Livejournal users out there?
      > >
      > > Blessings!
      > > Kurt
      >
      >


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    • Norm
      Although mostly accurate, I thought the article was disappointing. Willamette Week, which has a reputation of digging-up dirt on people and groups, was
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 12, 2004
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        Although mostly accurate, I thought the article was disappointing.
        Willamette Week, which has a reputation of digging-up dirt on people
        and groups, was surprisingly soft in its analysis of PF's claims.
        It also seemed to downplay the fact that PF is a fundamentalist-
        leaning Christian ministry and did not demand that PF prove its
        claims about change.

        I was also really surprised that WW only briefly mentioned John and
        Anne Paulk and failed to mention their connection to PF or John's
        infamous 2000 incident in which he was caught cruising a DC gay
        bar. John and Anne were both leaders at PF when I was there, so the
        seem fair subjects to include about PF. On exgaywatch.com, John
        Paulk (or someone claiming to be him) admitted that he referred WW
        to PF -- which makes it really strange that WW failed to mention his
        connection.

        It seems to be difficult for reporters to find former PF or ex-gay
        participants willing to publically talk about their experience. Our
        local gay paper, Just Out, interviewed me about a year ago about
        PF. They told me that they had two other ex-ex-gays lined-up. So,
        I was really surprised when I was the only person in the article.

        I curious about your perspective. Do you think many former ex-gay
        participants are hesitant to speak-out because they're embarrassed
        about trying to "change"? Or could it be that some former ex-gays
        still feel guilty about 'failing' to change?

        Norm!


        --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, Kurt G <koenbear@y...> wrote:
        > Hey Norm!
        >
        > Glad to meet you!
        >
        > Did you happen to read the article in the Willamette
        > Week a week or two ago? They did an article on the
        > ex-gay movement and Portland Fellowship in particular.
        > A friend gave my name to the reporter and I talked to
        > him for about an hour and a half but they didn't quote
        > me or use my story because they were looking for
        > people with experience with the local group. It is an
        > interesting article and certainly not unfair to either
        > side.
        >
        > You can read it online here:
        >
        > http://www.wweek.com/story.php?story=5343
        >
        > Glad to see another Portlander online!
        > Kurt
        > --- Norm <nojam75@y...> wrote:
        >
        > > Hi Kurt and everyone! Thanks for joining our group
        > > and sharing your
        > > stories. Wow, Kurt, what a lousy day to pick to
        > > move cross
        > > country.
        > >
        > > I'm a rare native Portlander and, similar to you, I
        > > "came out" at a
        > > college ministry about nine years ago when I was 19.
        > > I participated
        > > in the local ex-gay group, The Portland Fellowship,
        > > for almost two
        > > years (I also earned an "ex-gay diploma"). However,
        > > I realized that
        > > I was worse off than I when I started and decided to
        > > re-think the ex-
        > > gay and fundamentalist Christian ideas. Also
        > > similar to your
        > > journey, I started a Yahoo! group, this one, to
        > > hopefully share
        > > experiences with other former ex-gay participants.
        > >
        > > I haven't participated in this group lately, but I
        > > am glad that
        > > nyguy has continued the group.
        > >
        > > Norm! aka nojam75
        > >
        > > --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt"
        > > <koenbear@y...> wrote:
        > > > Hello all,
        > > >
        > > > I just joined the group and thought I would
        > > put out a quick
        > > > introduction.
        > > >
        > > > My name is Kurt and I live with my partner in
        > > Portland, OR. I am
        > > > now 33 but was a part of the ex-gay movement for
        > > about 10 years.
        > > I
        > > > came out at 18, but quickly went back in the
        > > closet at 19 when I
        > > had
        > > > a conversion experience and started going to a
        > > conservative
        > > > Christian church. My involvement in a local
        > > ex-gay ministry in
        > > the
        > > > San Jose, CA area started at about the same time.
        > > I spent 2 years
        > > > in that program and even got a diploma showing
        > > that I had
        > > graduated.
        > > >
        > > > A few years later, in my mid-20's, I went back to
        > > school in
        > > > Minnesota to study for the ministry in the
        > > Wisconsin Evangelical
        > > > Lutheran Synod. In school, I was told not to tell
        > > people even
        > > that
        > > > I "had been" gay, so I was completely closeted,
        > > both as gay and ex-
        > > > gay. Wanting someone to talk to I created a Yahoo
        > > group called
        > > 611
        > > > (from 1 Corinthians 6:11). That list was grew to
        > > about 100 people
        > > > and was around for a few years.
        > > >
        > > > In my ministry life, I had been assigned as a
        > > minister in San
        > > > Antonio, TX. While I was there, I was told that I
        > > was being
        > > > considered for a ministry position at a small
        > > congregation in
        > > > Brazil. The catch: they don't normally send
        > > single guys on
        > > foreign
        > > > missions. So, thinking it was what God wanted for
        > > my life, I got
        > > > married, was assigned to Brazil and moved there in
        > > November.
        > > >
        > > > Brazil is where the shit hit the fan. Our
        > > marriage did not go
        > > > well. On a trip back to the U.S. issues about my
        > > sexuality came
        > > > out. Long story short: I was told that I wasn't
        > > fit for ministry
        > > > because I might molest a teenager (never mind that
        > > I had no
        > > history
        > > > of that or anything that might indicate I would).
        > > >
        > > > On September 10th of 2001 I left my wife, my
        > > career, and my
        > > church.
        > > > I stayed overnight in a motel in San Antonio, TX
        > > intending to fly
        > > to
        > > > Portland, OR the next day. That never happened
        > > because of the
        > > > terrorist attacks in New York and at the Pentagon.
        > > Instead I
        > > drove
        > > > the 2,4000 miles and attmepted to start my life
        > > over.
        > > >
        > > > The good news is that there is a happy ending: I
        > > met my partner 2
        > > > weeks after I got here. That was 3 years ago. We
        > > just bought a
        > > > home together. I am back in school pursuing a
        > > Masters of
        > > Divinity,
        > > > and I am a candidate for ordination in the United
        > > Church of Christ.
        > > >
        > > > Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to make a
        > > quick
        > > introduction
        > > > and let y'all know that I'm here.
        > > >
        > > > You can read about stuff I write about here:
        > > > http://outsidethebox.blogs.com
        > > >
        > > > Any Livejournal users out there?
        > > >
        > > > Blessings!
        > > > Kurt
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
      • Anthony Venn-Brown
        HI Norm An ex gay Diploma eh? Now that would be worth hanging on your wall ;-) Hehe. I guess you received it after finishing a particular program not for
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 14, 2004
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          HI Norm

          An ex gay Diploma eh? Now that would be worth hanging on your wall ;-) Hehe.

          I guess you received it after finishing a particular program not for proving
          your had turned heterosexual.

          About the tone of our group……….I think our group reflects, inquiry,
          positivity, love, resolution etc.

          This is very different to the couple of ex gay groups I joined to see what
          was going on. The tone was very sad. I really felt for the guys but couldn’t
          of course post. Almost all of them were talking about their daily struggles,
          asking for constant prayer to overcome temptation, and minor
          victories…..like holding a girls hand. If it was so sad it would be
          pathetic.

          Anthony
          Moderator and author of:
          'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's Struggle'
          To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here
          <http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html> .
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
          <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/>
          My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
          forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted,
          celebrated, and lived with integrity.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Norm [mailto:nojam75@...]
          Sent: Friday, 13 August 2004 14:32
          To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [ExExGayMinistry] Re: Greetings!

          Hi Kurt and everyone! Thanks for joining our group and sharing your
          stories. Wow, Kurt, what a lousy day to pick to move cross
          country.

          I'm a rare native Portlander and, similar to you, I "came out" at a
          college ministry about nine years ago when I was 19. I participated
          in the local ex-gay group, The Portland Fellowship, for almost two
          years (I also earned an "ex-gay diploma"). However, I realized that
          I was worse off than I when I started and decided to re-think the ex-
          gay and fundamentalist Christian ideas. Also similar to your
          journey, I started a Yahoo! group, this one, to hopefully share
          experiences with other former ex-gay participants.

          I haven't participated in this group lately, but I am glad that
          nyguy has continued the group.

          Norm! aka nojam75

          --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt" <koenbear@y...> wrote:
          > Hello all,
          >
          > I just joined the group and thought I would put out a quick
          > introduction.
          >
          > My name is Kurt and I live with my partner in Portland, OR. I am
          > now 33 but was a part of the ex-gay movement for about 10 years.
          I
          > came out at 18, but quickly went back in the closet at 19 when I
          had
          > a conversion experience and started going to a conservative
          > Christian church. My involvement in a local ex-gay ministry in
          the
          > San Jose, CA area started at about the same time. I spent 2 years
          > in that program and even got a diploma showing that I had
          graduated.
          >
          > A few years later, in my mid-20's, I went back to school in
          > Minnesota to study for the ministry in the Wisconsin Evangelical
          > Lutheran Synod. In school, I was told not to tell people even
          that
          > I "had been" gay, so I was completely closeted, both as gay and ex-
          > gay. Wanting someone to talk to I created a Yahoo group called
          611
          > (from 1 Corinthians 6:11). That list was grew to about 100 people
          > and was around for a few years.
          >
          > In my ministry life, I had been assigned as a minister in San
          > Antonio, TX. While I was there, I was told that I was being
          > considered for a ministry position at a small congregation in
          > Brazil. The catch: they don't normally send single guys on
          foreign
          > missions. So, thinking it was what God wanted for my life, I got
          > married, was assigned to Brazil and moved there in November.
          >
          > Brazil is where the shit hit the fan. Our marriage did not go
          > well. On a trip back to the U.S. issues about my sexuality came
          > out. Long story short: I was told that I wasn't fit for ministry
          > because I might molest a teenager (never mind that I had no
          history
          > of that or anything that might indicate I would).
          >
          > On September 10th of 2001 I left my wife, my career, and my
          church.
          > I stayed overnight in a motel in San Antonio, TX intending to fly
          to
          > Portland, OR the next day. That never happened because of the
          > terrorist attacks in New York and at the Pentagon. Instead I
          drove
          > the 2,4000 miles and attmepted to start my life over.
          >
          > The good news is that there is a happy ending: I met my partner 2
          > weeks after I got here. That was 3 years ago. We just bought a
          > home together. I am back in school pursuing a Masters of
          Divinity,
          > and I am a candidate for ordination in the United Church of Christ.
          >
          > Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to make a quick
          introduction
          > and let y'all know that I'm here.
          >
          > You can read about stuff I write about here:
          > http://outsidethebox.blogs.com
          >
          > Any Livejournal users out there?
          >
          > Blessings!
          > Kurt




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