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  • Kurt
    Hello all, I just joined the group and thought I would put out a quick introduction. My name is Kurt and I live with my partner in Portland, OR. I am now 33
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 12, 2004
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      Hello all,

      I just joined the group and thought I would put out a quick
      introduction.

      My name is Kurt and I live with my partner in Portland, OR. I am
      now 33 but was a part of the ex-gay movement for about 10 years. I
      came out at 18, but quickly went back in the closet at 19 when I had
      a conversion experience and started going to a conservative
      Christian church. My involvement in a local ex-gay ministry in the
      San Jose, CA area started at about the same time. I spent 2 years
      in that program and even got a diploma showing that I had graduated.

      A few years later, in my mid-20's, I went back to school in
      Minnesota to study for the ministry in the Wisconsin Evangelical
      Lutheran Synod. In school, I was told not to tell people even that
      I "had been" gay, so I was completely closeted, both as gay and ex-
      gay. Wanting someone to talk to I created a Yahoo group called 611
      (from 1 Corinthians 6:11). That list was grew to about 100 people
      and was around for a few years.

      In my ministry life, I had been assigned as a minister in San
      Antonio, TX. While I was there, I was told that I was being
      considered for a ministry position at a small congregation in
      Brazil. The catch: they don't normally send single guys on foreign
      missions. So, thinking it was what God wanted for my life, I got
      married, was assigned to Brazil and moved there in November.

      Brazil is where the shit hit the fan. Our marriage did not go
      well. On a trip back to the U.S. issues about my sexuality came
      out. Long story short: I was told that I wasn't fit for ministry
      because I might molest a teenager (never mind that I had no history
      of that or anything that might indicate I would).

      On September 10th of 2001 I left my wife, my career, and my church.
      I stayed overnight in a motel in San Antonio, TX intending to fly to
      Portland, OR the next day. That never happened because of the
      terrorist attacks in New York and at the Pentagon. Instead I drove
      the 2,4000 miles and attmepted to start my life over.

      The good news is that there is a happy ending: I met my partner 2
      weeks after I got here. That was 3 years ago. We just bought a
      home together. I am back in school pursuing a Masters of Divinity,
      and I am a candidate for ordination in the United Church of Christ.

      Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to make a quick introduction
      and let y'all know that I'm here.

      You can read about stuff I write about here:
      http://outsidethebox.blogs.com

      Any Livejournal users out there?

      Blessings!
      Kurt
    • Anthony Venn-Brown
      Welcome Kurt and thanks for introducing yourself. What interesting journeys we have……..no wondered David Owen Ritz once said that “Homosexuality is
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 12, 2004
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        Welcome Kurt and thanks for introducing yourself.

        What interesting journeys we have……..no wondered David Owen Ritz once said
        that

        “Homosexuality is actually a privileged spiritual path and natural mode of
        human expression that our Souls have chosen in order to help us discover the
        true power and magnificence of our Authentic Selves“.


        ………and my favourite quote of all

        “People who exist at the margins of society are very much like Alice in
        Wonderland. They are not required to make the tough decision to risk their
        lives by embarking on an adventure of self-discovery. They have already
        been thrust beyond the city’s walls that keep ordinary people at a safe
        distance from the unknown. For at least some outsiders, “alienation” has
        destroyed traditional presumptions of identity and opened up the mythic hero
        ’s path to the possibility of discovery. What outsiders discover in their
        adventures on the other side of the looking glass is the courage to
        repudiate self-contempt and recognise their “alienation” as a precious gift
        of freedom from arbitrary norms that they did not make and did not sanction.
        At the moment a person questions the validity of the rules, the victim is no
        longer a victim.”

        Quote from “Coming Out Spiritually – The Next Step” by Christian de la
        Huerta



        Anthony
        Moderator and author of:
        'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's Struggle'
        To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here
        <http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html> .
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/>
        My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
        forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted,
        celebrated, and lived with integrity.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Kurt [mailto:koenbear@...]
        Sent: Friday, 13 August 2004 00:54
        To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [ExExGayMinistry] Greetings!

        Hello all,

        I just joined the group and thought I would put out a quick
        introduction.

        My name is Kurt and I live with my partner in Portland, OR. I am
        now 33 but was a part of the ex-gay movement for about 10 years. I
        came out at 18, but quickly went back in the closet at 19 when I had
        a conversion experience and started going to a conservative
        Christian church. My involvement in a local ex-gay ministry in the
        San Jose, CA area started at about the same time. I spent 2 years
        in that program and even got a diploma showing that I had graduated.

        A few years later, in my mid-20's, I went back to school in
        Minnesota to study for the ministry in the Wisconsin Evangelical
        Lutheran Synod. In school, I was told not to tell people even that
        I "had been" gay, so I was completely closeted, both as gay and ex-
        gay. Wanting someone to talk to I created a Yahoo group called 611
        (from 1 Corinthians 6:11). That list was grew to about 100 people
        and was around for a few years.

        In my ministry life, I had been assigned as a minister in San
        Antonio, TX. While I was there, I was told that I was being
        considered for a ministry position at a small congregation in
        Brazil. The catch: they don't normally send single guys on foreign
        missions. So, thinking it was what God wanted for my life, I got
        married, was assigned to Brazil and moved there in November.

        Brazil is where the shit hit the fan. Our marriage did not go
        well. On a trip back to the U.S. issues about my sexuality came
        out. Long story short: I was told that I wasn't fit for ministry
        because I might molest a teenager (never mind that I had no history
        of that or anything that might indicate I would).

        On September 10th of 2001 I left my wife, my career, and my church.
        I stayed overnight in a motel in San Antonio, TX intending to fly to
        Portland, OR the next day. That never happened because of the
        terrorist attacks in New York and at the Pentagon. Instead I drove
        the 2,4000 miles and attmepted to start my life over.

        The good news is that there is a happy ending: I met my partner 2
        weeks after I got here. That was 3 years ago. We just bought a
        home together. I am back in school pursuing a Masters of Divinity,
        and I am a candidate for ordination in the United Church of Christ.

        Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to make a quick introduction
        and let y'all know that I'm here.

        You can read about stuff I write about here:
        http://outsidethebox.blogs.com

        Any Livejournal users out there?

        Blessings!
        Kurt





        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        ADVERTISEMENT
        click here
        <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12931vv9h/M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=gr
        oups/S=1705074683:HM/EXP=1092412248/A=2164330/R=0/SIG=11eamf8g4/*http://www.
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        _____

        Yahoo! Groups Links
        * To visit your group on the web, go to:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exexgayministry/

        * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        exexgayministry-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:exexgayministry-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

        * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Anthony Venn-Brown
        Ps….would love to be a live journaller…….but really don’t think I have the time. Looks like fun though…..I believe some of them get 1,000’s of hits
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 12, 2004
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          Ps….would love to be a live journaller…….but really don’t think I have the
          time.

          Looks like fun though…..I believe some of them get 1,000’s of hits per
          day……..same as a Blog isn’t it.

          Anthony
          Moderator and author of:
          'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's Struggle'
          To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here
          <http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html> .
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
          <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/>
          My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
          forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted,
          celebrated, and lived with integrity.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Kurt [mailto:koenbear@...]
          Sent: Friday, 13 August 2004 00:54
          To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [ExExGayMinistry] Greetings!

          Hello all,

          I just joined the group and thought I would put out a quick
          introduction.

          My name is Kurt and I live with my partner in Portland, OR. I am
          now 33 but was a part of the ex-gay movement for about 10 years. I
          came out at 18, but quickly went back in the closet at 19 when I had
          a conversion experience and started going to a conservative
          Christian church. My involvement in a local ex-gay ministry in the
          San Jose, CA area started at about the same time. I spent 2 years
          in that program and even got a diploma showing that I had graduated.

          A few years later, in my mid-20's, I went back to school in
          Minnesota to study for the ministry in the Wisconsin Evangelical
          Lutheran Synod. In school, I was told not to tell people even that
          I "had been" gay, so I was completely closeted, both as gay and ex-
          gay. Wanting someone to talk to I created a Yahoo group called 611
          (from 1 Corinthians 6:11). That list was grew to about 100 people
          and was around for a few years.

          In my ministry life, I had been assigned as a minister in San
          Antonio, TX. While I was there, I was told that I was being
          considered for a ministry position at a small congregation in
          Brazil. The catch: they don't normally send single guys on foreign
          missions. So, thinking it was what God wanted for my life, I got
          married, was assigned to Brazil and moved there in November.

          Brazil is where the shit hit the fan. Our marriage did not go
          well. On a trip back to the U.S. issues about my sexuality came
          out. Long story short: I was told that I wasn't fit for ministry
          because I might molest a teenager (never mind that I had no history
          of that or anything that might indicate I would).

          On September 10th of 2001 I left my wife, my career, and my church.
          I stayed overnight in a motel in San Antonio, TX intending to fly to
          Portland, OR the next day. That never happened because of the
          terrorist attacks in New York and at the Pentagon. Instead I drove
          the 2,4000 miles and attmepted to start my life over.

          The good news is that there is a happy ending: I met my partner 2
          weeks after I got here. That was 3 years ago. We just bought a
          home together. I am back in school pursuing a Masters of Divinity,
          and I am a candidate for ordination in the United Church of Christ.

          Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to make a quick introduction
          and let y'all know that I'm here.

          You can read about stuff I write about here:
          http://outsidethebox.blogs.com

          Any Livejournal users out there?

          Blessings!
          Kurt





          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          ADVERTISEMENT
          click here
          <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12931vv9h/M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=gr
          oups/S=1705074683:HM/EXP=1092412248/A=2164330/R=0/SIG=11eamf8g4/*http://www.
          netflix.com/Default?mqso=60183350>


          _____

          Yahoo! Groups Links
          * To visit your group on the web, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exexgayministry/

          * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          exexgayministry-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          <mailto:exexgayministry-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

          * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • JC
          Welcome Kurt! Some similarities between us: 1) We both have traveled from churches that wouldn t accept us to the *wonderful* United Church of Christ. 2) We
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 12, 2004
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            Welcome Kurt!

            Some similarities between us:

            1) We both have traveled from churches that wouldn't accept us to the *wonderful* United Church of Christ.

            2) We were both deeply involved in ex-gay ministries.

            3) You lived in Brazil and my partner (of 6+ years) is Brazilian. I have made many happy trips there with him.

            I am glad you found us.

            James

            Kurt <koenbear@...> wrote:
            Hello all,

            I just joined the group and thought I would put out a quick
            introduction.

            My name is Kurt and I live with my partner in Portland, OR. I am
            now 33 but was a part of the ex-gay movement for about 10 years. I
            came out at 18, but quickly went back in the closet at 19 when I had
            a conversion experience and started going to a conservative
            Christian church. My involvement in a local ex-gay ministry in the
            San Jose, CA area started at about the same time. I spent 2 years
            in that program and even got a diploma showing that I had graduated.

            A few years later, in my mid-20's, I went back to school in
            Minnesota to study for the ministry in the Wisconsin Evangelical
            Lutheran Synod. In school, I was told not to tell people even that
            I "had been" gay, so I was completely closeted, both as gay and ex-
            gay. Wanting someone to talk to I created a Yahoo group called 611
            (from 1 Corinthians 6:11). That list was grew to about 100 people
            and was around for a few years.

            In my ministry life, I had been assigned as a minister in San
            Antonio, TX. While I was there, I was told that I was being
            considered for a ministry position at a small congregation in
            Brazil. The catch: they don't normally send single guys on foreign
            missions. So, thinking it was what God wanted for my life, I got
            married, was assigned to Brazil and moved there in November.

            Brazil is where the shit hit the fan. Our marriage did not go
            well. On a trip back to the U.S. issues about my sexuality came
            out. Long story short: I was told that I wasn't fit for ministry
            because I might molest a teenager (never mind that I had no history
            of that or anything that might indicate I would).

            On September 10th of 2001 I left my wife, my career, and my church.
            I stayed overnight in a motel in San Antonio, TX intending to fly to
            Portland, OR the next day. That never happened because of the
            terrorist attacks in New York and at the Pentagon. Instead I drove
            the 2,4000 miles and attmepted to start my life over.

            The good news is that there is a happy ending: I met my partner 2
            weeks after I got here. That was 3 years ago. We just bought a
            home together. I am back in school pursuing a Masters of Divinity,
            and I am a candidate for ordination in the United Church of Christ.

            Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to make a quick introduction
            and let y'all know that I'm here.

            You can read about stuff I write about here:
            http://outsidethebox.blogs.com

            Any Livejournal users out there?

            Blessings!
            Kurt



            Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT


            ---------------------------------
            Yahoo! Groups Links

            To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exexgayministry/

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            exexgayministry-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kurt
            Well if there IS anyone out there on Livejournal. My ID is koenbear and my journal is at http://koenbear.livejournal.comFeel free to add me!Kurt --- In
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 12, 2004
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              Well if there IS anyone out there on Livejournal. My ID is "koenbear"
              and my journal is at http://koenbear.livejournal.com

              Feel free to add me!

              Kurt
              --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Venn-Brown"
              <avb@m...> wrote:
              > Ps….would love to be a live journaller…….but really don't think I
              have the
              > time.
              >
              > Looks like fun though…..I believe some of them get 1,000's of hits per
              > day……..same as a Blog isn't it.
              >
              > Anthony
              > Moderator and author of:
              > 'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's Struggle'
              > To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here
              > <http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html> .
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
              > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/>
              > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
              > forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be
              accepted,
              > celebrated, and lived with integrity.
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Kurt [mailto:koenbear@y...]
              > Sent: Friday, 13 August 2004 00:54
              > To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [ExExGayMinistry] Greetings!
              >
              > Hello all,
              >
              > I just joined the group and thought I would put out a quick
              > introduction.
              >
              > My name is Kurt and I live with my partner in Portland, OR. I am
              > now 33 but was a part of the ex-gay movement for about 10 years. I
              > came out at 18, but quickly went back in the closet at 19 when I had
              > a conversion experience and started going to a conservative
              > Christian church. My involvement in a local ex-gay ministry in the
              > San Jose, CA area started at about the same time. I spent 2 years
              > in that program and even got a diploma showing that I had graduated.
              >
              > A few years later, in my mid-20's, I went back to school in
              > Minnesota to study for the ministry in the Wisconsin Evangelical
              > Lutheran Synod. In school, I was told not to tell people even that
              > I "had been" gay, so I was completely closeted, both as gay and ex-
              > gay. Wanting someone to talk to I created a Yahoo group called 611
              > (from 1 Corinthians 6:11). That list was grew to about 100 people
              > and was around for a few years.
              >
              > In my ministry life, I had been assigned as a minister in San
              > Antonio, TX. While I was there, I was told that I was being
              > considered for a ministry position at a small congregation in
              > Brazil. The catch: they don't normally send single guys on foreign
              > missions. So, thinking it was what God wanted for my life, I got
              > married, was assigned to Brazil and moved there in November.
              >
              > Brazil is where the shit hit the fan. Our marriage did not go
              > well. On a trip back to the U.S. issues about my sexuality came
              > out. Long story short: I was told that I wasn't fit for ministry
              > because I might molest a teenager (never mind that I had no history
              > of that or anything that might indicate I would).
              >
              > On September 10th of 2001 I left my wife, my career, and my church.
              > I stayed overnight in a motel in San Antonio, TX intending to fly to
              > Portland, OR the next day. That never happened because of the
              > terrorist attacks in New York and at the Pentagon. Instead I drove
              > the 2,4000 miles and attmepted to start my life over.
              >
              > The good news is that there is a happy ending: I met my partner 2
              > weeks after I got here. That was 3 years ago. We just bought a
              > home together. I am back in school pursuing a Masters of Divinity,
              > and I am a candidate for ordination in the United Church of Christ.
              >
              > Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to make a quick introduction
              > and let y'all know that I'm here.
              >
              > You can read about stuff I write about here:
              > http://outsidethebox.blogs.com
              >
              > Any Livejournal users out there?
              >
              > Blessings!
              > Kurt
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > ADVERTISEMENT
              > click here
              >
              <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12931vv9h/M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=g=
              r
              >
              oups/S=1705074683:HM/EXP=1092412248/A=2164330/R=0/SIG=11eamf8g4/*http://www=
              .
              > netflix.com/Default?mqso=60183350>
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exexgayministry/
              >
              > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > exexgayministry-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:exexgayministry-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
              >
              > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Bob Griffith
              Hey Kurt, What seminary are you attending? I will be starting my final year at The General Theological Seminary of the Episcopal Church in New York City. Nice
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 12, 2004
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                Hey Kurt,

                What seminary are you attending? I will be starting my final year at The
                General Theological Seminary of the Episcopal Church in New York City.

                Nice to have met you.

                Bob

                --- Kurt <koenbear@...> wrote:

                > Hello all,
                >
                > I just joined the group and thought I would put out a quick
                > introduction.
                >
                > My name is Kurt and I live with my partner in Portland, OR. I am
                > now 33 but was a part of the ex-gay movement for about 10 years. I
                > came out at 18, but quickly went back in the closet at 19 when I had
                > a conversion experience and started going to a conservative
                > Christian church. My involvement in a local ex-gay ministry in the
                > San Jose, CA area started at about the same time. I spent 2 years
                > in that program and even got a diploma showing that I had graduated.
                >
                > A few years later, in my mid-20's, I went back to school in
                > Minnesota to study for the ministry in the Wisconsin Evangelical
                > Lutheran Synod. In school, I was told not to tell people even that
                > I "had been" gay, so I was completely closeted, both as gay and ex-
                > gay. Wanting someone to talk to I created a Yahoo group called 611
                > (from 1 Corinthians 6:11). That list was grew to about 100 people
                > and was around for a few years.
                >
                > In my ministry life, I had been assigned as a minister in San
                > Antonio, TX. While I was there, I was told that I was being
                > considered for a ministry position at a small congregation in
                > Brazil. The catch: they don't normally send single guys on foreign
                > missions. So, thinking it was what God wanted for my life, I got
                > married, was assigned to Brazil and moved there in November.
                >
                > Brazil is where the shit hit the fan. Our marriage did not go
                > well. On a trip back to the U.S. issues about my sexuality came
                > out. Long story short: I was told that I wasn't fit for ministry
                > because I might molest a teenager (never mind that I had no history
                > of that or anything that might indicate I would).
                >
                > On September 10th of 2001 I left my wife, my career, and my church.
                > I stayed overnight in a motel in San Antonio, TX intending to fly to
                > Portland, OR the next day. That never happened because of the
                > terrorist attacks in New York and at the Pentagon. Instead I drove
                > the 2,4000 miles and attmepted to start my life over.
                >
                > The good news is that there is a happy ending: I met my partner 2
                > weeks after I got here. That was 3 years ago. We just bought a
                > home together. I am back in school pursuing a Masters of Divinity,
                > and I am a candidate for ordination in the United Church of Christ.
                >
                > Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to make a quick introduction
                > and let y'all know that I'm here.
                >
                > You can read about stuff I write about here:
                > http://outsidethebox.blogs.com
                >
                > Any Livejournal users out there?
                >
                > Blessings!
                > Kurt
                >
                >
                >
              • Norm
                Hi Kurt and everyone! Thanks for joining our group and sharing your stories. Wow, Kurt, what a lousy day to pick to move cross country. I m a rare native
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 12, 2004
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                  Hi Kurt and everyone! Thanks for joining our group and sharing your
                  stories. Wow, Kurt, what a lousy day to pick to move cross
                  country.

                  I'm a rare native Portlander and, similar to you, I "came out" at a
                  college ministry about nine years ago when I was 19. I participated
                  in the local ex-gay group, The Portland Fellowship, for almost two
                  years (I also earned an "ex-gay diploma"). However, I realized that
                  I was worse off than I when I started and decided to re-think the ex-
                  gay and fundamentalist Christian ideas. Also similar to your
                  journey, I started a Yahoo! group, this one, to hopefully share
                  experiences with other former ex-gay participants.

                  I haven't participated in this group lately, but I am glad that
                  nyguy has continued the group.

                  Norm! aka nojam75

                  --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt" <koenbear@y...> wrote:
                  > Hello all,
                  >
                  > I just joined the group and thought I would put out a quick
                  > introduction.
                  >
                  > My name is Kurt and I live with my partner in Portland, OR. I am
                  > now 33 but was a part of the ex-gay movement for about 10 years.
                  I
                  > came out at 18, but quickly went back in the closet at 19 when I
                  had
                  > a conversion experience and started going to a conservative
                  > Christian church. My involvement in a local ex-gay ministry in
                  the
                  > San Jose, CA area started at about the same time. I spent 2 years
                  > in that program and even got a diploma showing that I had
                  graduated.
                  >
                  > A few years later, in my mid-20's, I went back to school in
                  > Minnesota to study for the ministry in the Wisconsin Evangelical
                  > Lutheran Synod. In school, I was told not to tell people even
                  that
                  > I "had been" gay, so I was completely closeted, both as gay and ex-
                  > gay. Wanting someone to talk to I created a Yahoo group called
                  611
                  > (from 1 Corinthians 6:11). That list was grew to about 100 people
                  > and was around for a few years.
                  >
                  > In my ministry life, I had been assigned as a minister in San
                  > Antonio, TX. While I was there, I was told that I was being
                  > considered for a ministry position at a small congregation in
                  > Brazil. The catch: they don't normally send single guys on
                  foreign
                  > missions. So, thinking it was what God wanted for my life, I got
                  > married, was assigned to Brazil and moved there in November.
                  >
                  > Brazil is where the shit hit the fan. Our marriage did not go
                  > well. On a trip back to the U.S. issues about my sexuality came
                  > out. Long story short: I was told that I wasn't fit for ministry
                  > because I might molest a teenager (never mind that I had no
                  history
                  > of that or anything that might indicate I would).
                  >
                  > On September 10th of 2001 I left my wife, my career, and my
                  church.
                  > I stayed overnight in a motel in San Antonio, TX intending to fly
                  to
                  > Portland, OR the next day. That never happened because of the
                  > terrorist attacks in New York and at the Pentagon. Instead I
                  drove
                  > the 2,4000 miles and attmepted to start my life over.
                  >
                  > The good news is that there is a happy ending: I met my partner 2
                  > weeks after I got here. That was 3 years ago. We just bought a
                  > home together. I am back in school pursuing a Masters of
                  Divinity,
                  > and I am a candidate for ordination in the United Church of Christ.
                  >
                  > Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to make a quick
                  introduction
                  > and let y'all know that I'm here.
                  >
                  > You can read about stuff I write about here:
                  > http://outsidethebox.blogs.com
                  >
                  > Any Livejournal users out there?
                  >
                  > Blessings!
                  > Kurt
                • Kurt G
                  Hey Norm! Glad to meet you! Did you happen to read the article in the Willamette Week a week or two ago? They did an article on the ex-gay movement and
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 12, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hey Norm!

                    Glad to meet you!

                    Did you happen to read the article in the Willamette
                    Week a week or two ago? They did an article on the
                    ex-gay movement and Portland Fellowship in particular.
                    A friend gave my name to the reporter and I talked to
                    him for about an hour and a half but they didn't quote
                    me or use my story because they were looking for
                    people with experience with the local group. It is an
                    interesting article and certainly not unfair to either
                    side.

                    You can read it online here:

                    http://www.wweek.com/story.php?story=5343

                    Glad to see another Portlander online!
                    Kurt
                    --- Norm <nojam75@...> wrote:

                    > Hi Kurt and everyone! Thanks for joining our group
                    > and sharing your
                    > stories. Wow, Kurt, what a lousy day to pick to
                    > move cross
                    > country.
                    >
                    > I'm a rare native Portlander and, similar to you, I
                    > "came out" at a
                    > college ministry about nine years ago when I was 19.
                    > I participated
                    > in the local ex-gay group, The Portland Fellowship,
                    > for almost two
                    > years (I also earned an "ex-gay diploma"). However,
                    > I realized that
                    > I was worse off than I when I started and decided to
                    > re-think the ex-
                    > gay and fundamentalist Christian ideas. Also
                    > similar to your
                    > journey, I started a Yahoo! group, this one, to
                    > hopefully share
                    > experiences with other former ex-gay participants.
                    >
                    > I haven't participated in this group lately, but I
                    > am glad that
                    > nyguy has continued the group.
                    >
                    > Norm! aka nojam75
                    >
                    > --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt"
                    > <koenbear@y...> wrote:
                    > > Hello all,
                    > >
                    > > I just joined the group and thought I would
                    > put out a quick
                    > > introduction.
                    > >
                    > > My name is Kurt and I live with my partner in
                    > Portland, OR. I am
                    > > now 33 but was a part of the ex-gay movement for
                    > about 10 years.
                    > I
                    > > came out at 18, but quickly went back in the
                    > closet at 19 when I
                    > had
                    > > a conversion experience and started going to a
                    > conservative
                    > > Christian church. My involvement in a local
                    > ex-gay ministry in
                    > the
                    > > San Jose, CA area started at about the same time.
                    > I spent 2 years
                    > > in that program and even got a diploma showing
                    > that I had
                    > graduated.
                    > >
                    > > A few years later, in my mid-20's, I went back to
                    > school in
                    > > Minnesota to study for the ministry in the
                    > Wisconsin Evangelical
                    > > Lutheran Synod. In school, I was told not to tell
                    > people even
                    > that
                    > > I "had been" gay, so I was completely closeted,
                    > both as gay and ex-
                    > > gay. Wanting someone to talk to I created a Yahoo
                    > group called
                    > 611
                    > > (from 1 Corinthians 6:11). That list was grew to
                    > about 100 people
                    > > and was around for a few years.
                    > >
                    > > In my ministry life, I had been assigned as a
                    > minister in San
                    > > Antonio, TX. While I was there, I was told that I
                    > was being
                    > > considered for a ministry position at a small
                    > congregation in
                    > > Brazil. The catch: they don't normally send
                    > single guys on
                    > foreign
                    > > missions. So, thinking it was what God wanted for
                    > my life, I got
                    > > married, was assigned to Brazil and moved there in
                    > November.
                    > >
                    > > Brazil is where the shit hit the fan. Our
                    > marriage did not go
                    > > well. On a trip back to the U.S. issues about my
                    > sexuality came
                    > > out. Long story short: I was told that I wasn't
                    > fit for ministry
                    > > because I might molest a teenager (never mind that
                    > I had no
                    > history
                    > > of that or anything that might indicate I would).
                    > >
                    > > On September 10th of 2001 I left my wife, my
                    > career, and my
                    > church.
                    > > I stayed overnight in a motel in San Antonio, TX
                    > intending to fly
                    > to
                    > > Portland, OR the next day. That never happened
                    > because of the
                    > > terrorist attacks in New York and at the Pentagon.
                    > Instead I
                    > drove
                    > > the 2,4000 miles and attmepted to start my life
                    > over.
                    > >
                    > > The good news is that there is a happy ending: I
                    > met my partner 2
                    > > weeks after I got here. That was 3 years ago. We
                    > just bought a
                    > > home together. I am back in school pursuing a
                    > Masters of
                    > Divinity,
                    > > and I am a candidate for ordination in the United
                    > Church of Christ.
                    > >
                    > > Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to make a
                    > quick
                    > introduction
                    > > and let y'all know that I'm here.
                    > >
                    > > You can read about stuff I write about here:
                    > > http://outsidethebox.blogs.com
                    > >
                    > > Any Livejournal users out there?
                    > >
                    > > Blessings!
                    > > Kurt
                    >
                    >


                    __________________________________________________
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                  • Kurt G
                    ... I am currently attending Marylhurst University where I will get a Master of Arts in Applied Theology plus all the prerequisits for the M. Div. I then
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 12, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Bob Griffith <blgriffith@...> wrote:

                      > Hey Kurt,
                      >
                      > What seminary are you attending?

                      I am currently attending Marylhurst University where I
                      will get a Master of Arts in Applied Theology plus all
                      the prerequisits for the M. Div. I then finish up and
                      get the M. Div. through San Francisco Theological
                      Seminary. It's a weird little cooperative thing they
                      do, since the M. Div. at Marylhurst is not yet ATS
                      accredited.

                      Kurt



                      __________________________________
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                    • Norm
                      Although mostly accurate, I thought the article was disappointing. Willamette Week, which has a reputation of digging-up dirt on people and groups, was
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 12, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Although mostly accurate, I thought the article was disappointing.
                        Willamette Week, which has a reputation of digging-up dirt on people
                        and groups, was surprisingly soft in its analysis of PF's claims.
                        It also seemed to downplay the fact that PF is a fundamentalist-
                        leaning Christian ministry and did not demand that PF prove its
                        claims about change.

                        I was also really surprised that WW only briefly mentioned John and
                        Anne Paulk and failed to mention their connection to PF or John's
                        infamous 2000 incident in which he was caught cruising a DC gay
                        bar. John and Anne were both leaders at PF when I was there, so the
                        seem fair subjects to include about PF. On exgaywatch.com, John
                        Paulk (or someone claiming to be him) admitted that he referred WW
                        to PF -- which makes it really strange that WW failed to mention his
                        connection.

                        It seems to be difficult for reporters to find former PF or ex-gay
                        participants willing to publically talk about their experience. Our
                        local gay paper, Just Out, interviewed me about a year ago about
                        PF. They told me that they had two other ex-ex-gays lined-up. So,
                        I was really surprised when I was the only person in the article.

                        I curious about your perspective. Do you think many former ex-gay
                        participants are hesitant to speak-out because they're embarrassed
                        about trying to "change"? Or could it be that some former ex-gays
                        still feel guilty about 'failing' to change?

                        Norm!


                        --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, Kurt G <koenbear@y...> wrote:
                        > Hey Norm!
                        >
                        > Glad to meet you!
                        >
                        > Did you happen to read the article in the Willamette
                        > Week a week or two ago? They did an article on the
                        > ex-gay movement and Portland Fellowship in particular.
                        > A friend gave my name to the reporter and I talked to
                        > him for about an hour and a half but they didn't quote
                        > me or use my story because they were looking for
                        > people with experience with the local group. It is an
                        > interesting article and certainly not unfair to either
                        > side.
                        >
                        > You can read it online here:
                        >
                        > http://www.wweek.com/story.php?story=5343
                        >
                        > Glad to see another Portlander online!
                        > Kurt
                        > --- Norm <nojam75@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > Hi Kurt and everyone! Thanks for joining our group
                        > > and sharing your
                        > > stories. Wow, Kurt, what a lousy day to pick to
                        > > move cross
                        > > country.
                        > >
                        > > I'm a rare native Portlander and, similar to you, I
                        > > "came out" at a
                        > > college ministry about nine years ago when I was 19.
                        > > I participated
                        > > in the local ex-gay group, The Portland Fellowship,
                        > > for almost two
                        > > years (I also earned an "ex-gay diploma"). However,
                        > > I realized that
                        > > I was worse off than I when I started and decided to
                        > > re-think the ex-
                        > > gay and fundamentalist Christian ideas. Also
                        > > similar to your
                        > > journey, I started a Yahoo! group, this one, to
                        > > hopefully share
                        > > experiences with other former ex-gay participants.
                        > >
                        > > I haven't participated in this group lately, but I
                        > > am glad that
                        > > nyguy has continued the group.
                        > >
                        > > Norm! aka nojam75
                        > >
                        > > --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt"
                        > > <koenbear@y...> wrote:
                        > > > Hello all,
                        > > >
                        > > > I just joined the group and thought I would
                        > > put out a quick
                        > > > introduction.
                        > > >
                        > > > My name is Kurt and I live with my partner in
                        > > Portland, OR. I am
                        > > > now 33 but was a part of the ex-gay movement for
                        > > about 10 years.
                        > > I
                        > > > came out at 18, but quickly went back in the
                        > > closet at 19 when I
                        > > had
                        > > > a conversion experience and started going to a
                        > > conservative
                        > > > Christian church. My involvement in a local
                        > > ex-gay ministry in
                        > > the
                        > > > San Jose, CA area started at about the same time.
                        > > I spent 2 years
                        > > > in that program and even got a diploma showing
                        > > that I had
                        > > graduated.
                        > > >
                        > > > A few years later, in my mid-20's, I went back to
                        > > school in
                        > > > Minnesota to study for the ministry in the
                        > > Wisconsin Evangelical
                        > > > Lutheran Synod. In school, I was told not to tell
                        > > people even
                        > > that
                        > > > I "had been" gay, so I was completely closeted,
                        > > both as gay and ex-
                        > > > gay. Wanting someone to talk to I created a Yahoo
                        > > group called
                        > > 611
                        > > > (from 1 Corinthians 6:11). That list was grew to
                        > > about 100 people
                        > > > and was around for a few years.
                        > > >
                        > > > In my ministry life, I had been assigned as a
                        > > minister in San
                        > > > Antonio, TX. While I was there, I was told that I
                        > > was being
                        > > > considered for a ministry position at a small
                        > > congregation in
                        > > > Brazil. The catch: they don't normally send
                        > > single guys on
                        > > foreign
                        > > > missions. So, thinking it was what God wanted for
                        > > my life, I got
                        > > > married, was assigned to Brazil and moved there in
                        > > November.
                        > > >
                        > > > Brazil is where the shit hit the fan. Our
                        > > marriage did not go
                        > > > well. On a trip back to the U.S. issues about my
                        > > sexuality came
                        > > > out. Long story short: I was told that I wasn't
                        > > fit for ministry
                        > > > because I might molest a teenager (never mind that
                        > > I had no
                        > > history
                        > > > of that or anything that might indicate I would).
                        > > >
                        > > > On September 10th of 2001 I left my wife, my
                        > > career, and my
                        > > church.
                        > > > I stayed overnight in a motel in San Antonio, TX
                        > > intending to fly
                        > > to
                        > > > Portland, OR the next day. That never happened
                        > > because of the
                        > > > terrorist attacks in New York and at the Pentagon.
                        > > Instead I
                        > > drove
                        > > > the 2,4000 miles and attmepted to start my life
                        > > over.
                        > > >
                        > > > The good news is that there is a happy ending: I
                        > > met my partner 2
                        > > > weeks after I got here. That was 3 years ago. We
                        > > just bought a
                        > > > home together. I am back in school pursuing a
                        > > Masters of
                        > > Divinity,
                        > > > and I am a candidate for ordination in the United
                        > > Church of Christ.
                        > > >
                        > > > Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to make a
                        > > quick
                        > > introduction
                        > > > and let y'all know that I'm here.
                        > > >
                        > > > You can read about stuff I write about here:
                        > > > http://outsidethebox.blogs.com
                        > > >
                        > > > Any Livejournal users out there?
                        > > >
                        > > > Blessings!
                        > > > Kurt
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > __________________________________________________
                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                        > http://mail.yahoo.com
                      • Anthony Venn-Brown
                        HI Norm An ex gay Diploma eh? Now that would be worth hanging on your wall ;-) Hehe. I guess you received it after finishing a particular program not for
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 14, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          HI Norm

                          An ex gay Diploma eh? Now that would be worth hanging on your wall ;-) Hehe.

                          I guess you received it after finishing a particular program not for proving
                          your had turned heterosexual.

                          About the tone of our group……….I think our group reflects, inquiry,
                          positivity, love, resolution etc.

                          This is very different to the couple of ex gay groups I joined to see what
                          was going on. The tone was very sad. I really felt for the guys but couldn’t
                          of course post. Almost all of them were talking about their daily struggles,
                          asking for constant prayer to overcome temptation, and minor
                          victories…..like holding a girls hand. If it was so sad it would be
                          pathetic.

                          Anthony
                          Moderator and author of:
                          'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's Struggle'
                          To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here
                          <http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html> .
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/>
                          My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
                          forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted,
                          celebrated, and lived with integrity.

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Norm [mailto:nojam75@...]
                          Sent: Friday, 13 August 2004 14:32
                          To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [ExExGayMinistry] Re: Greetings!

                          Hi Kurt and everyone! Thanks for joining our group and sharing your
                          stories. Wow, Kurt, what a lousy day to pick to move cross
                          country.

                          I'm a rare native Portlander and, similar to you, I "came out" at a
                          college ministry about nine years ago when I was 19. I participated
                          in the local ex-gay group, The Portland Fellowship, for almost two
                          years (I also earned an "ex-gay diploma"). However, I realized that
                          I was worse off than I when I started and decided to re-think the ex-
                          gay and fundamentalist Christian ideas. Also similar to your
                          journey, I started a Yahoo! group, this one, to hopefully share
                          experiences with other former ex-gay participants.

                          I haven't participated in this group lately, but I am glad that
                          nyguy has continued the group.

                          Norm! aka nojam75

                          --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt" <koenbear@y...> wrote:
                          > Hello all,
                          >
                          > I just joined the group and thought I would put out a quick
                          > introduction.
                          >
                          > My name is Kurt and I live with my partner in Portland, OR. I am
                          > now 33 but was a part of the ex-gay movement for about 10 years.
                          I
                          > came out at 18, but quickly went back in the closet at 19 when I
                          had
                          > a conversion experience and started going to a conservative
                          > Christian church. My involvement in a local ex-gay ministry in
                          the
                          > San Jose, CA area started at about the same time. I spent 2 years
                          > in that program and even got a diploma showing that I had
                          graduated.
                          >
                          > A few years later, in my mid-20's, I went back to school in
                          > Minnesota to study for the ministry in the Wisconsin Evangelical
                          > Lutheran Synod. In school, I was told not to tell people even
                          that
                          > I "had been" gay, so I was completely closeted, both as gay and ex-
                          > gay. Wanting someone to talk to I created a Yahoo group called
                          611
                          > (from 1 Corinthians 6:11). That list was grew to about 100 people
                          > and was around for a few years.
                          >
                          > In my ministry life, I had been assigned as a minister in San
                          > Antonio, TX. While I was there, I was told that I was being
                          > considered for a ministry position at a small congregation in
                          > Brazil. The catch: they don't normally send single guys on
                          foreign
                          > missions. So, thinking it was what God wanted for my life, I got
                          > married, was assigned to Brazil and moved there in November.
                          >
                          > Brazil is where the shit hit the fan. Our marriage did not go
                          > well. On a trip back to the U.S. issues about my sexuality came
                          > out. Long story short: I was told that I wasn't fit for ministry
                          > because I might molest a teenager (never mind that I had no
                          history
                          > of that or anything that might indicate I would).
                          >
                          > On September 10th of 2001 I left my wife, my career, and my
                          church.
                          > I stayed overnight in a motel in San Antonio, TX intending to fly
                          to
                          > Portland, OR the next day. That never happened because of the
                          > terrorist attacks in New York and at the Pentagon. Instead I
                          drove
                          > the 2,4000 miles and attmepted to start my life over.
                          >
                          > The good news is that there is a happy ending: I met my partner 2
                          > weeks after I got here. That was 3 years ago. We just bought a
                          > home together. I am back in school pursuing a Masters of
                          Divinity,
                          > and I am a candidate for ordination in the United Church of Christ.
                          >
                          > Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to make a quick
                          introduction
                          > and let y'all know that I'm here.
                          >
                          > You can read about stuff I write about here:
                          > http://outsidethebox.blogs.com
                          >
                          > Any Livejournal users out there?
                          >
                          > Blessings!
                          > Kurt




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