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Re: [ExExGayMinistry] Digest Number 268

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  • Drew VanDyche
    As I am a survivor of one of these programs (Love in Action 1988) (John Paulk was in my program and I am mentioned in his book.) I do not believe that the
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 23, 2004
      As I am a survivor of one of these programs (Love in Action 1988) (John Paulk was in my program and I am mentioned in his book.) I do not believe that the government should fund such an effort. Although I am not an extremist as to believe that they should be outlawed, I do believe that their model of behavior modification is inherently flawed. Yes, Virginia, I am what is known as a "biocon" (a bisexual conservative). I do believe that it would be good for a moderate who knows what it's like from the inside to have a voice. My concern is that we too often get into mud-slinging and agenda calling rhetoric.

      A wise "Christian" psychologist once said that every time we polarize society, or polarize issues we partake once again from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. God never wanted us to be good (Even Jesus wouldn't accept that label in the NT), Father/Mother God wanted us to be REAL. Transparent honesty is desperately needed in today's society. A vulnerable place, maybe. But as long as we know that God is our defense then we can stand strong.

      "See the Christ in each other."
      Love,
      Drew VanDyche

      exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com wrote:

      There is 1 message in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

      1. Congressional Subcommittee To Hear From 'Ex-Gay' Group
      From: "alankhoo92002"


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 1
      Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:50:42 -0000
      From: "alankhoo92002"
      Subject: Congressional Subcommittee To Hear From 'Ex-Gay' Group

      Maybe they should hear from Ex-ex gay groups too.

      Alan

      Congressional Subcommittee To Hear From 'Ex-Gay' Group
      by Paul Johnson
      365Gay.com Newscenter
      Washington Bureau Chief

      Posted: January 23, 2004 12:02 a.m. ET


      (Washington, D.C.) The House Committee on Government Reform's
      Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy and Human Resources has
      scheduled a hearing on faith-based initiatives Friday and reportedly
      will hear from extreme rightwing groups including one
      promoting "converting" gays to heterosexuality.

      Among the groups to testify before the Republican controlled sub-
      committee is Focus on the Family and an organization it sponsors,
      Love Won Out.

      "This could mark the beginning of a faith-based fiasco where the
      right wing pressures the government to get into the business of
      destroying lives through support of ex-gay programs," said Wayne
      Besen, author of Anything But Straight: Unmasking the Scandals and
      Lies Behind the Ex-Gay Myth.

      Gay civil rights groups are calling on the committee to rescind its
      invitation to the groups to appear.

      "It is unconscionable that our federal elected officials would even
      consider using the hard-earned tax dollars of millions of parents to
      fund the denigration of their children," said David Tseng, Executive
      Director of PFLAG.

      The Love Won Out website (www.family.org) states, "Focus on the
      Family is promoting the truth that homosexuality is preventable and
      treatable ... We want people to know that individuals don't have to
      be gay."

      FOF says it plans to have five of their representatives testify at
      the faith-based funding hearing.

      "Ex-gay therapy" was publicly decried in 1999 as unethical by both
      the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological
      Association. At best, ex-gay groups fuel prejudice and homophobia; at
      worst, they put their 'clients' at great risk of depression, anxiety,
      and self-destructive behavior, including suicide.

      "There is nothing reparative about this destructive and
      psychologically harmful practice, which is based on outdated and
      disproved pseudo-science and fundamentalist religious prejudice,"
      said PFLAG's Deputy Field and Policy Director, Roy Gilbert-
      Higginson, PhD., a former clinical psychiatric social worker.

      �365Gay.com� 2004




      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________




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      Drew VanDyche
      University of Tampa
      UT Box 1030
      401 W Kennedy Blvd
      Tampa, FL 33606-1490


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • dixibehr@aol.com
      ... You have made some good points in your letter. What distrsses me is why on earth those who claim to follow Him who said I am TRUTH find it necessary to
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 23, 2004
        In a message dated 1/23/04 3:38:16 PM, vandyche@... writes:


        > As I am a survivor of one of these programs (Love in Action 1988) (John
        > Paulk was in my program and I am mentioned in his book.) I do not believe that
        > the government should fund such an effort. Although I am not an extremist as
        > to believe that they should be outlawed, I do believe that their model of
        > behavior modification is inherently flawed. Yes, Virginia, I am what is known as
        > a "biocon" (a bisexual conservative). I do believe that it would be good for
        > a moderate who knows what it's like from the inside to have a voice. My
        > concern is that we too often get into mud-slinging and agenda calling rhetoric.
        >
        You have made some good points in your letter.

        What distrsses me is why on earth those who claim to follow Him who said "I
        am TRUTH" find it necessary to lie. A friend of mine--heterosexual Christian
        lady--has even coined the term "Liars for Jesus".

        The effectiveness of the various ex-gay programs is seen in the carreers of
        such ex-gay poster boys and trophies such as John Paulk, Michael Johnston, et
        al. And the professional expertise of reparative therapists such as Dr. Charles
        Socarides is seen in their personal lives and their openly gay adult
        children.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • nyguy_1225
        When one buys into the lie that to have a
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 24, 2004
          <<What distrsses me is why on earth those who claim to follow Him
          who said "I am TRUTH" find it necessary to lie.>>

          When one buys into the lie that to have a right relationship with
          God one has to pursue heterosexuality then one has no choice but to
          also buy into the lie of and rationalize the whole "ex-gay" myth.
          What other choice do they have? Besides for many "ex-gays" simply
          labeling oneself as heterosexual constitutes progress in the right
          direction regardless of whether one's sexual orientation has
          actually changed.

          It's a nasty little smoke screen because instead of learning to lead
          honest and authentic lives before God, before man and before
          themselves, they continue to repress or suppress their sexuality and
          succumb to the pressure of conformity and denial. In doing so, what
          they're often really saying is: "I'm now more acceptable to myself
          and to the people around me." Unfortunately, they don't usually
          feel that way in the long run. Even increasing numbers of Christian
          counselors now readily admit that "ex-gay" ministries are trying to
          force people into a mold that doesn't really fit and the results
          often lead to depression, addiction and sometimes even suicide. As
          Terry Norman, a D Min and professional Christian counselor
          said: "When people repress their orientation, in order to make all
          that work, they [often] hide under layers and layers of incredibly
          destructive behavior." Norman concluded by saying: "Ultimately, it
          kills." And if it doesn't physically kill you, it will slowly eat
          away at your soul.

          -Alex



          --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, dixibehr@a... wrote:
          >
          > In a message dated 1/23/04 3:38:16 PM, vandyche@y... writes:
          >
          >
          > > As I am a survivor of one of these programs (Love in Action
          1988) (John
          > > Paulk was in my program and I am mentioned in his book.) I do
          not believe that
          > > the government should fund such an effort. Although I am not an
          extremist as
          > > to believe that they should be outlawed, I do believe that their
          model of
          > > behavior modification is inherently flawed. Yes, Virginia, I am
          what is known as
          > > a "biocon" (a bisexual conservative). I do believe that it would
          be good for
          > > a moderate who knows what it's like from the inside to have a
          voice. My
          > > concern is that we too often get into mud-slinging and agenda
          calling rhetoric.
          > >
          > You have made some good points in your letter.
          >
          > What distrsses me is why on earth those who claim to follow Him
          who said "I
          > am TRUTH" find it necessary to lie. A friend of mine--heterosexual
          Christian
          > lady--has even coined the term "Liars for Jesus".
          >
          > The effectiveness of the various ex-gay programs is seen in the
          carreers of
          > such ex-gay poster boys and trophies such as John Paulk, Michael
          Johnston, et
          > al. And the professional expertise of reparative therapists such
          as Dr. Charles
          > Socarides is seen in their personal lives and their openly gay
          adult
          > children.
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • dixibehr@aol.com
          ... Alex, do you have the source of Dr. Norman s quote? Dr. Ralph Blair has remarked that the leadership of so many ex-gay groups are in the hands of
          Message 4 of 5 , Jan 24, 2004
            In a message dated 1/24/04 6:51:49 AM, no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:


            > Even increasing numbers of Christian
            > counselors now readily admit that "ex-gay" ministries are trying to
            > force people into a mold that doesn't really fit and the results
            > often lead to depression, addiction and sometimes even suicide.  As
            > Terry Norman, a D Min and professional Christian counselor
            > said: "When people repress their orientation, in order to make all
            > that work, they [often] hide under layers and layers of incredibly
            > destructive behavior."  Norman concluded by saying: "Ultimately, it
            > kills."  And if it doesn't physically kill you, it will slowly eat
            > away at your soul. 
            >

            Alex, do you have the source of Dr. Norman's quote?

            Dr. Ralph Blair has remarked that the leadership of so many ex-gay groups are
            in the hands of "everstraights"--and that their ex-gay trophies seem to
            change periodically.

            He also said that the assorted glee that goes on at EXODUS conventions and
            similar gatherings (the litter left behind giving mute testimiony--'nuff said?)
            is one of the dirty little secrets that gets discussed only in-house.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • nyguy_1225
            Message 5 of 5 , Jan 24, 2004
              <<Alex, do you have the source of Dr. Norman's quote?>>

              Yes, as a matter of fact. The quote is from an article titled "Gay
              No More?" -- a very interesting and thought-provoking article on "ex-
              gay" ministries and reparative therapies that originally appeared in
              Psychology Today. The author interviewed a variety of people and
              thereby includes insights and thoughts from both sides of the
              argument. It deals with such fundamental questions as: What is the
              nature of sexual orientation and is it mutable? Who are the people
              who seek to change their orientations? What drives someone to seek
              a "conversion?" And of course the $64,000 question: Are gay people
              truly shedding their same-sex attractions? Or do they continue to
              struggle against their natural impulses, accepting celibacy or
              marriage as a socially-sanctioned substitute?

              I've posted the article in the "Files" section of the group under
              the name "GNoMore.pdf" for everyone's reading pleasure. FYI, I'll
              be out of town for a week so you won't hear anything from me until I
              return. Enjoy the article...

              -Alex




              --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, dixibehr@a... wrote:
              >
              > In a message dated 1/24/04 6:51:49 AM, no_reply@yahoogroups.com
              writes:
              >
              >
              > > Even increasing numbers of Christian
              > > counselors now readily admit that "ex-gay" ministries are trying
              to
              > > force people into a mold that doesn't really fit and the results
              > > often lead to depression, addiction and sometimes even suicide. 
              As
              > > Terry Norman, a D Min and professional Christian counselor
              > > said: "When people repress their orientation, in order to make
              all
              > > that work, they [often] hide under layers and layers of
              incredibly
              > > destructive behavior."  Norman concluded by saying: "Ultimately,
              it
              > > kills."  And if it doesn't physically kill you, it will slowly
              eat
              > > away at your soul. 
              > >
              >
              > Alex, do you have the source of Dr. Norman's quote?
              >
              > Dr. Ralph Blair has remarked that the leadership of so many ex-gay
              groups are
              > in the hands of "everstraights"--and that their ex-gay trophies
              seem to
              > change periodically.
              >
              > He also said that the assorted glee that goes on at EXODUS
              conventions and
              > similar gatherings (the litter left behind giving mute testimiony--
              'nuff said?)
              > is one of the dirty little secrets that gets discussed only in-
              house.
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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