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Re: About your conference on homosexuality.

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  • nyguy_1225
    Correction to the last line in post #2986: While the title of the essay is indeed Like the Wideness of the Sea, it can be found in the Files section under
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 20, 2004
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      Correction to the last line in post #2986: While the title of the
      essay is indeed "Like the Wideness of the Sea," it can be found in
      the "Files" section under the link "SMEDES.PDF."

      Sorry for the confusion,
      -Alex

      --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, nyguy_1225 <no_reply@y...>
      wrote:
      > Jack, for purposes of clarity, you won't find anything or anyone
      on
      > this site who claims we know the root causes of homosexually. You
      > can argue over the root causes of homosexuality until the cows
      come
      > home. But in the final analysis nobody knows what causes some
      > people to be gay and others to be straight. You can read various
      > books and publications that talk about this cause and that cause
      and
      > the other cause. Every social scientist I know who has analyzed
      > this problem says we don't know what the causes are.
      >
      > There are those who talk about genetics. There are those who talk
      > about biophysical. There are those that talk about sociological,
      > psychological factors. Nobody knows. And those who are experts
      say,
      > for the most part, there are a variety of factors that interact
      with
      > each other to create homosexuality and it may even be that no two
      > people are gay for the same reason. We don't know what causes
      it.
      > What we do know is that the imprinting, the establishment of the
      > orientation occurred so early in the development of the individual
      > that the individual never remembers having made a choice. That's
      > important because I often hear rhetoric that says if you just pray
      > and repent and turn away from this that God will honor the request
      > and all will be well. One look at the dismal success rate and
      dark
      > history of the ex-gay movement crushes that theory right from the
      > get-go.
      >
      > It's not that I believe God is not able. I believe God can do
      > anything. He's God! God can make donkeys fly. But does he?
      God's
      > primary concern is not to change the sexual orientation of gay and
      > lesbian people -- to bring them in line with social norms -- but
      to
      > help them become secure in Him, assured of His love and acceptance
      > and set apart to follow Him faithfully and responsibly. We need
      to
      > remember that Jesus was not crucified for maintaining the
      religious
      > status quo.
      >
      > It's also true that most, if not all who post here, are in
      agreement
      > that there is nothing incongruous with being both gay and
      > Christian. Some of here are men and women of profound faith and
      > with a very high view of Scripture. The fact is the few passages
      in
      > Scripture that proscribe sexual union between men all seek to
      > address sins of idolatry, rebellion, self-indulgence, abuse, or
      > grossly irresponsible behavior. None refer to gay or straight
      > people, who love their partners, are faithful to them and who shun
      > sexual immorality, according to biblical definitions. Throughout
      > the Bible we find instructions to shun sexual immorality and seek
      > the highest moral standard that reflects the Spirit of Christ
      (e.g.
      > Rom. 13:11-14; 1 Cor. 6:13-20 and 7:1-3; Eph. 5:1-5; Col 3:5-17,
      to
      > cite a few examples). However, the fact that the violation of
      > others is strongly condemned does not mean that all homosexual
      > behavior warrants such censure any more than all heterosexuals are
      > to be condemned for their sexual behavior by association with the
      > sins of pedophilia, lust, rape, fornication or adultery.
      >
      > You may also wish to check out the link in the Files section "Like
      > the Wideness of the Sea." Its an extremely well-written and
      thought-
      > provoking essay by Dr. Lewis Smedes.
      >
      > -Alex
      >
      >
      > --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, dixibehr@a... wrote:
      > > I've noticed two things on your site regarding this.
      > >
      > > 1. You say that you know the root causes of homosexuality. Most
      > itneresting.
      > > It's something that psychologists and similar professionals have
      > debated for
      > > decades (both those who are gay-friendly and those of the
      opposite
      > view), and
      > > there has NEVER been agreement. Theories have been tridd and
      > rejected. How did
      > > YOU come up with the nawer to th is mystery?
      > >
      > > 2. If there is an escape from homosexuality, the USA office of
      Dr.
      > Dobson's
      > > Focus on the Family certainly has not found it.
      > >
      > > In case you didn't know, in October of 2000, their former
      > travelling speaker
      > > and expert on sexuality and gender issues, John Paulk (also
      > sometime chairman
      > > of the board of EXODUS, the cumbrell a ex-gay ministries) was
      seen
      > AND
      > > PHOTOGRAPHED in a gay bar in Washington, DC. He was seen by
      > witnesses trying to buy
      > > men drinks, chatting them up, and saying he himself was gay--
      > giving a false
      > > name all the time, btw.
      > >
      > > One of the men he approached was someone who had publicly
      debated
      > him on this
      > > very issue.
      > >
      > > Of course, the story and pictures were immediately circulated
      > througout the
      > > gay press.
      > >
      > > John Paulk tried several different times to lie his way out of
      it.
      > First, he
      > > said it didn't happen. Next he tried saying that he was merely
      > taking his
      > > evening walk (in Dupont Circle, the know gay ghetto of DC) and
      had
      > to use the
      > > restroom--so he avoided a well lighted hotel, and well lighted
      > coffeeshop and went
      > > into an unlighted, hidden doorway below street level. He was
      there
      > over an
      > > hour--and NOT using the restroom, as the bartender confirmed.
      > >
      > > Finally the board of EXODUS got an approximation of the truth:
      > That Paulk had
      > > done this type of thing frequently when out of town on ex-gay
      > business, and
      > > said he needed to relax. From what? If he had truly "escaped
      from
      > > homosexuality," he wouldn't suffer the tension that most gay men
      > feel who are pretending to
      > > be that which they are not, and hence would have no need
      > of "relaxing" at a
      > > gay bar!
      > >
      > > Of course, he was fired from FOF and EXODUS. Excuse me; let me
      be
      > more
      > > accurate. He resigned from both organizations, and took his
      family
      > to another state,
      > > to "concentrate on his family."
      > >
      > > Another ex-gay poster boy, Michael Johnston, had his own ex-gay
      > ministry:
      > > Kerusso Ministries. A few months ago his minstry and web site
      were
      > closed, and
      > > Johnston went to a treatment center for sexual compulsives. It
      > seems that he was
      > > organizing gay male orgies and knowingly infecting all the
      > participants with
      > > HIV. This is a crime--a felony--in most states of the USA. I
      KNOW
      > he knew he
      > > had AIDS, because he said so publicly in Phoenix, the first stop
      > of the HOPE
      > > '97 tour (sponsored by himself and the American Family
      > Association). BTW--the
      > > nationwide tour closed after the second city; there was never a
      > third.
      > >
      > > Colin Cook, founder of the organization that became Homosexuals
      > Anonymous,
      > > another ex-gay trophy, was discovered to have been having sex
      with
      > his
      > > counsellees. (I won't go into the stories of the many chapters
      of
      > HA that have folded
      > > due to attrition, members, and even facilitators, eloping, and
      the
      > like.)
      > >
      > > What is it that you have to offer that will bring about a
      > guaranteed change
      > > from unchosen homosexual orientation to heterosexuality? It
      would
      > certainly be
      > > an answer to prayer for the millions of gay and lesbian
      Christians
      > who have
      > > tried everything to become heterosexual, and just have not
      > achieved it.
      > >
      > > Surely, you are not thinking that mere abstinence from
      homogenital
      > acts means
      > > that one has "changed." This is the definition of "success" used
      > by the
      > > National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality
      > (NARTH). Think a
      > > minute--does mere abstinence from heterosexual activity mean
      that
      > one is now gay?
      > >
      > >
      > > Dr. Charles Socarides, founder and sometime president of NARTH,
      > says that
      > > gays come from dysfunctional families with smothering parents,
      and
      > he's the man
      > > to can fix it. Yet his own adult son Richard is openly gay. If
      he
      > can't make
      > > his OWN son heterosexual, where did he get the idea that he
      could
      > make other
      > > people's sons heerosexual?
      > >
      > > Of course, Dr. Socarides might know something about
      dysfunctional
      > families.
      > > He himself has been married and divorced three times. While
      anyone
      > can mke ONE
      > > mistake, one would reasonably think that a psychiatrist would be
      a
      > good enough
      > > judge of character not to make the wrong choice of spouse THREE
      > TIMES.
      > >
      > > Of course, as we know from the present divorce rate--in the USA
      > the number of
      > > divorces in a year is over half that of the number of
      > > marriages--heterosexuals just cannot sustain long-term
      > relationships nor can they take the word
      > > "commitment" seriously.
      > >
      > > Sincerely in Christ,
      > >
      > > Jack Isaacks
      > > Phoenix, Arizona, USA
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • dixibehr@aol.com
      ... You might have misunderstood. I blindcopied to this yahoogroup an e-mail I sent to this family values group in Singapore that was holding a
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 20, 2004
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        In a message dated 1/20/04 2:14:08 PM, no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:


        > Jack, for purposes of clarity, you won't find anything or anyone on
        > this site who claims we know the root causes of homosexually.
        >

        You might have misunderstood. I blindcopied to this yahoogroup an e-mail I
        sent to this "family values" group in Singapore that was holding a
        conference--last November, as it turned out--that was claiming to know the causes of
        homosexuality and how to cure it. (At the risk of sounding irreverent, God Himself
        cannot cure that which is not an illness.)

        And I learned about this Singapore Conference from this list.

        Hope this clarifies things.

        And I did enjoy your comments! Lewis Smedes was always a very forward
        thinking Christian.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • nyguy_1225
        Yes, it does clarify. I didn t know your post was a blind copy. I enjoyed your comments too. -Alex ... on ... e-mail I ... know the causes of ... irreverent,
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 20, 2004
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          Yes, it does clarify. I didn't know your post was a blind copy. I
          enjoyed your comments too.

          -Alex

          --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, dixibehr@a... wrote:
          >
          > In a message dated 1/20/04 2:14:08 PM, no_reply@yahoogroups.com
          writes:
          >
          >
          > > Jack, for purposes of clarity, you won't find anything or anyone
          on
          > > this site who claims we know the root causes of homosexually.
          > >
          >
          > You might have misunderstood. I blindcopied to this yahoogroup an
          e-mail I
          > sent to this "family values" group in Singapore that was holding a
          > conference--last November, as it turned out--that was claiming to
          know the causes of
          > homosexuality and how to cure it. (At the risk of sounding
          irreverent, God Himself
          > cannot cure that which is not an illness.)
          >
          > And I learned about this Singapore Conference from this list.
          >
          > Hope this clarifies things.
          >
          > And I did enjoy your comments! Lewis Smedes was always a very
          forward
          > thinking Christian.
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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