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Re: [ExExGayMinistry] Rusty

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  • Rusty Morris
    I agree with your assessment of fraud and similar issues...personally i do not believe there is a gay gene ...i believe in the part of the scientific
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 28, 2003
      I agree with your assessment of fraud and similar issues...personally i do
      not believe there is a "gay gene"...i believe in the part of the scientific
      community that puts forth that there is a "sexual orientation chromosome
      pattern", which is then AUGMENTED for good or for bad, by environment ,
      experience, and related personality traits that determines how one
      integrates those experiences into ones life (i.e. why one gay person goes
      all closet or exgay while a similar person with similar experiences
      integrates those outside influences differently and does NOT go
      closet....but as you mention, foundational issues of the human psyhe',
      aspects that are not "evil,obvious,harmful,destructive or mentally
      psychotic" (there-by making them not as apparent) are almost impossible to
      prove using the first scientific method (apparent concrete answer)...and
      instead issues such as sexuality, must fall into the second
      catagory..(process of elimination until either 1 or several benign answers
      are left).

      The scientific community has done much in this area, there really are very
      few answers left where sexuality is concerned. It has been eliminated down
      to basically a one-liner..."fixed adult sexuality is MOST PROBABLY a result
      of genetic pre-disposition and integration of outside influential stimuli by
      individual personality traits (strengths and weaknesses).

      I believe fully (as do 99% of the scientific community) that the main
      proving points of this where sexuality is concerned are:

      1) heterosexuality and homosexuality...have exisisted in proven evidence,
      throughout human history from the written word to pre-modern man. This
      eliminates any chance that sexuality (het or homo) is the result of some
      modern familial,enviromental,medical or materialistic "cause"...(i.e. they
      didn't have queer as folk,gay pride, and honcho magazine when neanderthal
      man walked the earth (nor even 100 years ago), yet documented evidence
      exists that homosexuals have always been a part of the human species
      spanning the entire timespace of human existance) This as any scientist will
      tell you negates any claim that homosexuality is not a nautural variant of
      the human species. (what is the definition of unnatural?...unusual
      occurance?, infrequent?, doesn't happen often..not part of the natural
      order?...then how on earth can homosexuality be unnatural if its always
      existed everywhere throughout human history?)

      2)There has never been (nor will there ever be IMO) any connecting evidence,
      thread, causality, or even coincedental relation in sexual developement on
      an orientation scale. No cause EVER has been documented even NEAR the
      required frequency to point to as a "cause" of being heterosexual or
      homosexual...you can start a list and debunk evey single "reason" you can
      think of...(i'll show ya how)
      Influence/recruitment?
      NOT...i was rasied in a totally heterosexual family, almost all homosexual
      were raised by heterosexual parents in a nuclear family type environment, by
      example then, we should all be str8.
      Molestion/abuse...please..there are huge numbers of heterosexuals who were
      heterosexualy molested (they didn't turn gay)...and there are plenty of
      homosexuals who were never molested.

      The list can go on and on, no matter what "reason" you try to give for WHY a
      person is hetero or homo, you will find that someone somewhere did not
      experience whatever you are trying to blame as a causality. This is what any
      scientific agency has found whenever they have tried to find "a
      cause"...that almost NOONE is totally alike or shares the exact same
      experiences with the exact same persoanlity traits to deal with
      them...hence NO common thread has ever been found in sexual developement.
      Pointing then to a INBORN foundational reason for the occurance.

      So, to your original question...i agree.
      The process of elimination is about the only way to determine issues such as
      sexuality...like freud, there really isnt any way prove his theory...on
      issues like this it is much easier to DISPROVE a theory, than to prove one,
      by a process of elimination.

      R.



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Paul Jackson" <rembrandtjackson@...>
      To: <exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 6:19 AM
      Subject: Re: [ExExGayMinistry] Rusty


      Hi Rusty, In regards to the methodology and the theories behind Reparitive
      Theory, I seem to remember from school, that although the theories of Freud
      are enticing and seem to make sense at times, they are almost impossible to
      prove empiracaly. Is that your take as well? I forget exactly what the
      reason is, but if my memory serves me correctly, it is almost impossible to
      isolate any particular aspect of the theory and set up controlls etc. This
      does not mean that the theories may not be on to something, it just means
      that as to date, there have not been any measuring tools developed to test
      the idea. I suppose it could also mean that the theory is bunk as well.
      Peace Paul

      Rusty Morris <rusty66@...> wrote:I agree with this post...after 14
      years researching religious cults, as well
      as exgays. Lisa is right, according to wayne though, and i agree, it isn't
      really "those in it" that are targeted, it is the fence sitters, the "live
      and let live-ers" (to the point of letting dangerous things happen to
      others), and the mainstream public (most of whom know very little about
      exgay anything) whom he is trying to reach.

      In that respect many people will have a resource now to educate themselves
      on the harmful aspects of this movement, and a little more insight into the
      truth of the matter.

      Just like the NBC show last night (the children of WACO) confirmed, there is
      not a whole lot anyone can do to people whom are in something like that, and
      usually have to hit bottom and realize on their own what trouble they are
      in.

      Still we try to at least pesent them with the facts which are withheld from
      them. And lisa is also right, they HAVE to believe it, for reasons that
      logic, truth, and evidence just sometimes cannot reach.

      R.
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