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Re: Participatory Government

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  • iltwoods1984
    the Bible does not in any way address homosexual orientation...It s not addressed in the Bible because homosexuality as a sexual orientation did not exist in
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 4, 2002
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      "the Bible does not in any way address homosexual orientation...It's
      not addressed in the Bible because homosexuality as a sexual
      orientation did not exist in Bible times."

      Homosexuality as a sexual orientation didn't exist in bible times?
      Where did you learn this? Does the same source say when
      homosexuality as a sexual orientation is first documented in history?

      Thank you sir.
    • nyguy_1225
      Ideas and understandings of sexuality have changed greatly over the centuries. People in biblical times did not share our knowledge or customs of sexuality;
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 5, 2002
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        Ideas and understandings of sexuality have changed greatly over the
        centuries. People in biblical times did not share our knowledge or
        customs of sexuality; we do not share their experience. In those
        days there was no romantic dating as we know it today; marriages
        were arranged by fathers. Romance, as we know it, did not come into
        being until the Middle Ages, which is precisely why the period is
        referred to as the "romance period."

        The ancients, as MIT's David Halperin notes: "conceived
        of 'sexuality' in non-sexual terms: What was fundamental to their
        experience of sex was not anything we would regard as essentially
        sexual. Rather, it was something essentially social -- namely, the
        modality of power relations that informed and structured the sexual
        act." In the ancient world, sex was "not intrinsically relational
        or collaborative in character, it is, further, a deeply polarizing
        experience: It serves to divide, to classify, and to distribute its
        participants into distinct and radically dissimilar categories. Sex
        possesses this valence, apparently because it is conceived to center
        essentially on, and to define itself around, an asymmetrical
        gesture, that of the penetration of the body of one person by the
        body, and, specifically, by the phallus -- of another. .... The
        proper targets of [a citizen's] sexual desire include, specifically,
        women, boys, foreigners, and slaves -- all of them persons who do
        not enjoy the same legal and political rights and privileges that he
        does." In studies of sex in history, Stanford classics professor
        John J. Winkler warns against "reading contemporary concerns and
        politics into texts and artifacts removed from their social
        context." This, of course, is a basic principle of biblical
        hermeneutics.

        So contrary to the attacks by the antigay lobby, neither the men of
        Sodom, nor cult prostitutes, slave boys and masters, nor call boys
        and customers were gay. And contrary to the special pleading of the
        GLBTQ apologists, Ruth and Naomi were not lesbians, David and
        Jonathan weren't gay, and neither were Jesus and John. The Bible is
        an empty closet.

        And that is why I concur with the likes of Dr. Marten H. Woudstra,
        former Calvin Theological Seminary Old Testament scholar and
        chairman of the NIV Old Testament translation committee who
        said, "There is nothing in the Old Testament that corresponds to
        homosexuality as we understand it today," SMU New Testament scholar
        Victor Paul Furnish who said: "There is no text on homosexual
        orientation in the Bible," and Robin Scroggs of Union Seminary who
        said: "Biblical judgments against homosexuality are not relevant to
        today's debate. They should no longer be used, not because the
        Bible is not authoritative, but simply because it does not address
        the issues involved."

        I can't answer your second question precisely, however, the
        term "homosexuality" itself was only coined one century ago in 1892
        and prior to this was not used in any translations of the Bible.
        Harper's Bible Dictionary says of homosexuality: "A word for which
        there is no specific equivalent in the Hebrew OT or the Greek NT,
        since the concept itself as well as the English word originated only
        in the nineteenth century."

        On an unrelated note, please don't call me "sir" although I'm sure
        you did not mean it to be offensive. I'm just another man like you -
        - a recipient of God's indescribable grace, experiencing His loving
        presence even in the midst of our sometimes very difficult and cruel
        world.



        --- In exexgayministry@y..., iltwoods1984 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > "the Bible does not in any way address homosexual
        orientation...It's
        > not addressed in the Bible because homosexuality as a sexual
        > orientation did not exist in Bible times."
        >
        > Homosexuality as a sexual orientation didn't exist in bible
        times?
        > Where did you learn this? Does the same source say when
        > homosexuality as a sexual orientation is first documented in
        history?
        >
        > Thank you sir.
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