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  • nyguy_1225
    Chris, my apologies for assuming you were a brother and not a sister. It was the result of my own carelesness. We too often get a little Y chromosone heavy
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 30, 2002
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      Chris, my apologies for assuming you were a brother and not a
      sister. It was the result of my own carelesness. We too often get
      a little "Y" chromosone heavy around here. :-)

      --- In exexgayministry@y..., "Chris H" <itschris@r...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > <<I guess I've isolated myself in pro-gay circles and have not
      > maintained any meaningful relationships with my "anti-gay
      Christian"
      > friends.>>
      >
      > I have personally worked really hard to maintain some of these
      > friendships. It has been important to me to do so, as these people
      > represent an important part of my history, and therefore of who I
      am.
      > Not all have chosen to reciprocate, and I must respect that
      choice.
      > But I have found that my refusal to apologise or justify myself
      has left
      > many of them unable to challenge me.
      > I always enjoy the opportunity for debate if people wish to do
      so, but
      > I have been astounded at the number who have not done so. I
      believe (and
      > I may be misguided.) that they realise when they hear my story
      that they
      > have little or no recourse, and must re-examine their own stance
      and
      > beliefs.
      > Many have done so, and remain friends, but it has been
      unsettling to
      > their own belief-system and choices (which I see as positive and
      > healthy).
      > Of course there is always the situation of running into someone
      whom I
      > haven't seen since before I 'came out', and I do find this a
      challenge
      > every time it happens. It is the anticipation of the shock my
      friends
      > will undoubtedly experience that I find a little anxiety-inducing.
      > However, many, of course, have had journeys of their own, and it
      is not
      > a step I have ever regretted taking!
      > Cheers
      > Chris
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • CHRIS HANSEN
      ... From: nyguy_1225 [mailto:no_reply@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, 1 July 2002 1:51 p.m. To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ExExGayMinistry]
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 1, 2002
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        -----Original Message-----
        From: nyguy_1225 [mailto:no_reply@yahoogroups.com]
        Sent: Monday, 1 July 2002 1:51 p.m.
        To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [ExExGayMinistry] Addendum

        Chris, my apologies for assuming you were a brother and not a
        sister. It was the result of my own carelesness. We too often get
        a little "Y" chromosone heavy around here. :-)

        --- In exexgayministry@y..., "Chris H" <itschris@r...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > <<I guess I've isolated myself in pro-gay circles and have not
        > maintained any meaningful relationships with my "anti-gay
        Christian"
        > friends.>>
        >
        > I have personally worked really hard to maintain some of these
        > friendships. It has been important to me to do so, as these people
        > represent an important part of my history, and therefore of who I
        am.
        > Not all have chosen to reciprocate, and I must respect that
        choice.
        > But I have found that my refusal to apologise or justify myself
        has left
        > many of them unable to challenge me.
        > I always enjoy the opportunity for debate if people wish to do
        so, but
        > I have been astounded at the number who have not done so. I
        believe (and
        > I may be misguided.) that they realise when they hear my story
        that they
        > have little or no recourse, and must re-examine their own stance
        and
        > beliefs.
        > Many have done so, and remain friends, but it has been
        unsettling to
        > their own belief-system and choices (which I see as positive and
        > healthy).
        > Of course there is always the situation of running into someone
        whom I
        > haven't seen since before I 'came out', and I do find this a
        challenge
        > every time it happens. It is the anticipation of the shock my
        friends
        > will undoubtedly experience that I find a little anxiety-inducing.
        > However, many, of course, have had journeys of their own, and it
        is not
        > a step I have ever regretted taking!
        > Cheers
        > Chris
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • CHRIS HANSEN
        *laughing* well, no offence taken- if I had a dollar for every time that happened I d be typing this on a new computer!!! Cheers Chris in New Zealand ... From:
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 1, 2002
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          *laughing* well, no offence taken- if I had a dollar for every time that
          happened I'd be typing this on a new computer!!!
          Cheers
          Chris in New Zealand

          -----Original Message-----
          From: nyguy_1225 [mailto:no_reply@yahoogroups.com]
          Sent: Monday, 1 July 2002 1:51 p.m.
          To: exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [ExExGayMinistry] Addendum

          Chris, my apologies for assuming you were a brother and not a
          sister. It was the result of my own carelesness. We too often get
          a little "Y" chromosone heavy around here. :-)

          --- In exexgayministry@y..., "Chris H" <itschris@r...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > <<I guess I've isolated myself in pro-gay circles and have not
          > maintained any meaningful relationships with my "anti-gay
          Christian"
          > friends.>>
          >
          > I have personally worked really hard to maintain some of these
          > friendships. It has been important to me to do so, as these people
          > represent an important part of my history, and therefore of who I
          am.
          > Not all have chosen to reciprocate, and I must respect that
          choice.
          > But I have found that my refusal to apologise or justify myself
          has left
          > many of them unable to challenge me.
          > I always enjoy the opportunity for debate if people wish to do
          so, but
          > I have been astounded at the number who have not done so. I
          believe (and
          > I may be misguided.) that they realise when they hear my story
          that they
          > have little or no recourse, and must re-examine their own stance
          and
          > beliefs.
          > Many have done so, and remain friends, but it has been
          unsettling to
          > their own belief-system and choices (which I see as positive and
          > healthy).
          > Of course there is always the situation of running into someone
          whom I
          > haven't seen since before I 'came out', and I do find this a
          challenge
          > every time it happens. It is the anticipation of the shock my
          friends
          > will undoubtedly experience that I find a little anxiety-inducing.
          > However, many, of course, have had journeys of their own, and it
          is not
          > a step I have ever regretted taking!
          > Cheers
          > Chris
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          exexgayministry-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to thew.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • BearJER@juno.com
          Hi again. I agree with the gyst of what you said. To be honest, even though I believe God accepts me just the way I am, I am still one of those who don t
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 2, 2002
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            Hi again. I agree with the gyst of what you said. To be honest, even
            though I believe God accepts me just the way I am, I am still one of
            those who don't know if God wants us to accept homosexuality. The
            scriptures that you and others seem to explain in another way, I have
            great difficulty just explaining them away. But I do take great comfort
            from the apostle Paul's understanding when he said, "Blessed is the man
            to whom the Lord will not impute sin." So, even if something is wrong
            (i.e. homosexual behavior), God still looks on the heart and understands
            and does not reckon it as sin to the person who is truly convinced
            otherwise and is otherwise serving God with the knowledge he has. I just
            need more convincing that God really indeed wants us to embrace our
            homosexuality in the light of scripture.

            Would love to dialog with you on this sometime.

            Jerry in Michigan

            On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 15:00:12 -0000 nyguy_1225 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
            writes:
            > Again, I think we need to make a distinction between gay Christians
            > who are thoroughly evangelical in their theological position and who
            >
            > hold a high (or the highest possible) view of Christ and the Bible
            > and those who do not.
            >
            > For evangelicals this is not simply a matter of "hiding." The
            > antipathy that evangelicals display toward gay people is not hatred
            >
            > directed at us as gay people, but moral disgust directed at
            > homosexual behavior. Evangelical churches reject homosexual practice
            >
            > on biblical grounds. Their demonstration of disapproval towards
            > this "sin" is a legitimate expression of Christian opinion on a
            > contemporary ethical issue.
            >
            > Therefore gay Christians who are evangelical in their theological
            > position and who hold a high view of Christ and the Bible should
            > focus on encouraging and welcoming opportunities for a constructive,
            >
            > even-handed discussion of the relevant pastoral theology and textual
            >
            > exegesis. This is about far more than simply "proof-texting" a few
            >
            > isolated passages of Scripture. This is what yielded the recent
            > Vancouver victory and this is what has produced the fruit and other
            >
            > favorable changes that I have witness daily. The goal is to re-open
            >
            > the argument. And once the argument has been re-opened, with time
            > and patience incredible things happen! The Vancouver victory is
            > only one such example. We need to invest in these people. We need
            >
            > to let our light shine. We need to know the Word of God. And even
            >
            > more important than knowing the Bible, we need to know how to apply
            >
            > it in love. Because knowledge in and of itself will only make us
            > arrogant. But love will build up the body (1 Corinthians 8:1). I
            > have never seen confrontative methods yield fruit in this
            > controversy.
            >
            > Gay people who are not Christian and/or evangelical and who do not
            > hold a high view of Christ and the Bible will not be well-versed in
            >
            > Scripture (i.e. they will not know it from anything more than a
            > simple tangential level) as this is simply not a priority for them.
            >
            > And therefore, they will not be well-equipped to do much more than
            > make a lot of noise. My experience has been that the latter only
            > serves undermine our desired goal, not further it. If you truly
            > want to know how to reach them and what works, this is what I have
            > found effective.
            >
            >
            >
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            >
            >
            >
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            >
            >
            >

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          • nyguy_1225
            Needless to say, I, for one, would be happy to. You may want to begin with some material by Roy Clements.
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 3, 2002
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              <<Would love to dialog with you on this sometime.>>

              Needless to say, I, for one, would be happy to. You may want to
              begin with some material by Roy Clements. For 20 years Roy was
              senior pastor of one of England's leading evangelical churches. He
              was one of Britain's most popular preachers and teachers, a much
              sought after conference speaker in Britain and around the globe and
              a widely read author. I know Roy personally and he's considered one
              of the best expository bible teachers in the English language. A
              couple of years ago, Roy came to terms with and chose to be honest
              about being homosexual. His web site is chock full of excellent
              resources. You may want to begin with "Why Evangelicals Must Think
              Again" and "Letter to Michael" (both found under the `essays' link)
              at: www.royclements.co.uk

              Roy's site is just one of many places where rich material can be
              found. Respected Christian scholars like Dr. Helmut Thielicke and
              Dr. Lewis Smedes, to site just two, have been outspoken about
              homosexuality for years. Smedes spent the last 50 years studying
              the Bible, is retired minister in the Christian Reformed Church,
              former ethics professor at Fuller Theological Seminary and the
              author of over a dozen best-selling Christian books. (In honor to
              Smedes and his impeccable integrity and work, Fuller recently
              initiated the "Lewis B. Smedes Honorary Chair of Christian Ethics" --
              an honor very rarely bestowed upon people while they're still
              alive.) A marvelous and extremely well-written essay by Dr. Smedes
              titled "Like the Widensss of the Sea" in which he compares the
              Christian church's former stand on divorce and remarriage with its
              current stand on homosexuality is also available on the Internet at:
              http://www.soulforce.org/lewissmedes.html

              Why not begin with these three pieces and then let's talk!
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