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RE: [ExExGayMinistry] QUOTE FROM ECHO MAGAZINE

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  • Michael Airhart
    Jerry, It helps to look things up. I ll help you out here, but it s ultimately going to be your obligation to finish the research, since you re the one making
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 10, 2002
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      Jerry,

      It helps to look things up. I'll help you out here, but it's ultimately
      going to be your obligation to finish the research, since you're the one
      making an allegation based on almost no facts, such as the writer's
      name, date, and the full text of the article in question.

      First, Echo Magazine (a small Arizona rag) is online, at
      www.echomag.com. But as you'll see, its archives don't go back to the
      time of the alleged quotation.

      Second, if you do a search on Google for keywords "echo magazine" and
      "zealots" you'll find that rumors of the alleged quotation are
      originating from Ken Munsil, president of the Center for Arizona Policy,
      a religious-right organization.

      http://www.azpolicy.org/assets/citizen/2002Jan.pdf

      Munsil never cites the issue date or page in which the quotation
      allegedly occurred. He also hacks up the quotation, citing items
      selectively and out of context and interjecting his own sarcasm. Clearly
      he can't be trusted to give us the plain facts.

      Your Google search will show that Munsil's allegations were subsequently
      picked up by Focus on the Family and one or two other organizations that
      campaigned to misrepresent gay opinion about Sept. 11. These subsequent
      groups made no apparent effort to flesh out and substantiate the claim
      by Munsil.

      So, one must go back to the source to find out what was really said --
      the whole quotation, not just bits of it -- and what the author might
      have said since then. After all, it's been eight months.

      How do you go back to the source? You go to Google again. You search for
      the author "Jeff Ofstedahl."

      On the very first page of results -- well whaddaya know, Jeff has his
      own home page at:
      http://home.earthlink.net/~azboys/

      Jerry, I recommend that you visit the author's home page. You'll see
      that he's an ordinary guy and small-business operator, and he even goes
      to a Christian church.

      http://www.communitychurchofhope.com

      Knowing a little about him may help you, because now it's time to go
      back to Ofstedahl's home page and write a nice e-mail to Ofstedahl
      courteously requesting clarification. You might, for example, mention
      that you had heard of this quotation from politically biased sources,
      and ask Ofstedahl for a copy of the complete article or perhaps just an
      explanation of what was actually said.

      Once we have accurate material, then we can decide whether Ofstedahl was
      using hate speech and promoting the murder of Christian zealots like Mr.
      Munsil.

      Jerry, many thanks in advance for doing this research.

      -- Mike
    • Michael Airhart
      Hi again, Jerry, I really do hope you ll contact Mr. Ofstedahl. It will be a learning experience for all of us. I m writing this because, when you read
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 10, 2002
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        Hi again, Jerry,

        I really do hope you'll contact Mr. Ofstedahl. It will be a learning
        experience for all of us.

        I'm writing this because, when you read propaganda from folks like Mr.
        Munsil, I hope that you will look for what is often obvious to folks who
        keep abreast of gay politics.

        When the war against Afghanistan began, many on the gay Left -- the
        NGLTF and the glbt wing of the American Friends Service Committee, for
        example -- condemned violence of any kind -- especially against Arabs,
        Muslims, and later Palestinians. Some of these activist writers made the
        point that we shouldn't be killing at all, and if the wackos running the
        U.S. are going to kill all foreign zealots, then we (America) should
        (sarcastically speaking) be consistent and kill off all the zealots at
        home, too.

        For the record, I don't agree with the gay Left -- I think war against
        terrorist nations (including Pakistan and Saudi Arabia) is justified.
        But that's not the point I'm making here.

        When we read religious-right propaganda, I think it's critical to find
        out what their targets really said, since the religious right rarely
        tells the truth. Likewise, when we read anti-conservative propaganda
        from the gay Left, we need to understand what conservatives really said,
        since the Left is just as prone to stereotyping and mudslinging. When we
        merely pass along someone else's propaganda without doing our own
        fact-checking, we're not helping matters.

        All that being said, it's possible that Ofstedahl was using hate speech
        to promote violence against the U.S. religious right. But we won't know
        until we ask him what he said, will we?

        Sincerely,
        Mike
      • BearJER@juno.com
        Mike, thanks for the information. I was pretty sure that someone out there could steer me in the right direction. I will look it up as soon as possible, but
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 11, 2002
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          Mike, thanks for the information. I was pretty sure that someone out
          there could steer me in the right direction. I will look it up as soon
          as possible, but it's about midnight now. However, let me just say this.
          I read this information in a letter from the Family Research Council and
          they put his statement in quotation marks. That is the reason I asked
          the question. If (and I say IF) that is an exact quote, it would be
          impossible for me as a Christian to endorse such words, no matter what
          else he might say, but I will check it out and try to find out the exact
          truth. Regardless of what you think about the work of the Family
          Research Council, Focus on the Family, or others, my only point in
          bringing this matter up is to see if this was an EXACT QUOTE OR NOT.

          Thanks again.

          Jerry

          On Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:14:55 -0400 "Michael Airhart"
          <mairhart@...> writes:
          > Jerry,
          >
          > It helps to look things up. I'll help you out here, but it's
          > ultimately
          > going to be your obligation to finish the research, since you're the
          > one
          > making an allegation based on almost no facts, such as the writer's
          > name, date, and the full text of the article in question.
          >
          > First, Echo Magazine (a small Arizona rag) is online, at
          > www.echomag.com. But as you'll see, its archives don't go back to
          > the
          > time of the alleged quotation.
          >
          > Second, if you do a search on Google for keywords "echo magazine"
          > and
          > "zealots" you'll find that rumors of the alleged quotation are
          > originating from Ken Munsil, president of the Center for Arizona
          > Policy,
          > a religious-right organization.
          >
          > http://www.azpolicy.org/assets/citizen/2002Jan.pdf
          >
          > Munsil never cites the issue date or page in which the quotation
          > allegedly occurred. He also hacks up the quotation, citing items
          > selectively and out of context and interjecting his own sarcasm.
          > Clearly
          > he can't be trusted to give us the plain facts.
          >
          > Your Google search will show that Munsil's allegations were
          > subsequently
          > picked up by Focus on the Family and one or two other organizations
          > that
          > campaigned to misrepresent gay opinion about Sept. 11. These
          > subsequent
          > groups made no apparent effort to flesh out and substantiate the
          > claim
          > by Munsil.
          >
          > So, one must go back to the source to find out what was really said
          > --
          > the whole quotation, not just bits of it -- and what the author
          > might
          > have said since then. After all, it's been eight months.
          >
          > How do you go back to the source? You go to Google again. You search
          > for
          > the author "Jeff Ofstedahl."
          >
          > On the very first page of results -- well whaddaya know, Jeff has
          > his
          > own home page at:
          > http://home.earthlink.net/~azboys/
          >
          > Jerry, I recommend that you visit the author's home page. You'll see
          > that he's an ordinary guy and small-business operator, and he even
          > goes
          > to a Christian church.
          >
          > http://www.communitychurchofhope.com
          >
          > Knowing a little about him may help you, because now it's time to
          > go
          > back to Ofstedahl's home page and write a nice e-mail to Ofstedahl
          > courteously requesting clarification. You might, for example,
          > mention
          > that you had heard of this quotation from politically biased
          > sources,
          > and ask Ofstedahl for a copy of the complete article or perhaps just
          > an
          > explanation of what was actually said.
          >
          > Once we have accurate material, then we can decide whether Ofstedahl
          > was
          > using hate speech and promoting the murder of Christian zealots like
          > Mr.
          > Munsil.
          >
          > Jerry, many thanks in advance for doing this research.
          >
          > -- Mike
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > exexgayministry-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • BearJER@juno.com
          Good points, Mike, but I don t think I am forstering untrue statements by asking if it s true. I wasn t passing it off as truth. I was asking the question
          Message 4 of 5 , Jun 11, 2002
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            Good points, Mike, but I don't think I am forstering untrue statements by
            asking if it's true. I wasn't passing it off as truth. I was asking the
            question and I'm glad you have been able to do some research to perhaps
            set me straight. I will definitely try to check it out and let Mr.
            Ofstedahl explain for himself, if I can reach him..

            Jerry

            On Mon, 10 Jun 2002 05:46:59 -0400 "Michael Airhart"
            <mairhart@...> writes:
            > Hi again, Jerry,
            >
            > I really do hope you'll contact Mr. Ofstedahl. It will be a
            > learning
            > experience for all of us.
            >
            > I'm writing this because, when you read propaganda from folks like
            > Mr.
            > Munsil, I hope that you will look for what is often obvious to folks
            > who
            > keep abreast of gay politics.
            >
            > When the war against Afghanistan began, many on the gay Left -- the
            > NGLTF and the glbt wing of the American Friends Service Committee,
            > for
            > example -- condemned violence of any kind -- especially against
            > Arabs,
            > Muslims, and later Palestinians. Some of these activist writers made
            > the
            > point that we shouldn't be killing at all, and if the wackos running
            > the
            > U.S. are going to kill all foreign zealots, then we (America)
            > should
            > (sarcastically speaking) be consistent and kill off all the zealots
            > at
            > home, too.
            >
            > For the record, I don't agree with the gay Left -- I think war
            > against
            > terrorist nations (including Pakistan and Saudi Arabia) is
            > justified.
            > But that's not the point I'm making here.
            >
            > When we read religious-right propaganda, I think it's critical to
            > find
            > out what their targets really said, since the religious right
            > rarely
            > tells the truth. Likewise, when we read anti-conservative
            > propaganda
            > from the gay Left, we need to understand what conservatives really
            > said,
            > since the Left is just as prone to stereotyping and mudslinging.
            > When we
            > merely pass along someone else's propaganda without doing our own
            > fact-checking, we're not helping matters.
            >
            > All that being said, it's possible that Ofstedahl was using hate
            > speech
            > to promote violence against the U.S. religious right. But we won't
            > know
            > until we ask him what he said, will we?
            >
            > Sincerely,
            > Mike
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > exexgayministry-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >

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