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3052Re: Gay vs Goy?

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  • nyguy_1225
    Jun 1, 2004
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      I can appreciate the sentiment, Scott. How heart wrenching that so
      many of us who are gay and Christian have spent years in our
      churches (of all places!) feeling a need to have to "keep our guard
      up." But I'm happy to hear that you survived the "war," for far too
      many others have not. Thankfully churches of every denomination are
      taking a fresh look at this issue as they are increasingly becoming
      unconvinced by traditional "anti-gay" theology so that more and more
      gay people can feel less and less of a need to be guarded (or
      closeted) when attending church.

      -Alex

      --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, Scott Cruse <chrunemyr@y...>
      wrote:
      > You make some good points, Alex. I've been through the first
      scenarios myself, sometimes more than once. As for the third, I
      haven't exactly adopted a liberal anything goes theology, but when I
      do go to church, those are usualyy the kinds of churches I go to,
      just so I can worship freely without having to constantly keepmy
      guard up.
      >
      > nyguy_1225 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:This group, as most of
      you know, was initiated for the many looking
      > to integrate a Bible-based Christian faith with their sexuality.
      As
      > stated in the description we agree with the growing number of
      > biblical scholars and theologians who became increasingly
      > unconvinced by what has passed as "anti-gay" theology and believe
      > that Christian hostility towards homosexuality and homosexual
      > relationships rests entirely on an interpretation of the Bible
      that
      > in many respects is open to question.
      >
      > Moreover, it has been my personal experience that either Christian
      > people who happen to be gay learn to integrate a theologically-
      > sound, committed Christian faith with their sexuality, or one of
      the
      > following three scenarios will generally occur:
      >
      > (1) REPRESSION AND DENIAL: With the first scenario they continue
      to
      > repress or suppress their sexuality. Instead of learning to lead
      > honest and authentic lives -- before God, before man and before
      > themselves -- they succumb to the pressure of conformity and
      > denial. In doing so, what they're often really saying is: I'm now
      > more acceptable to myself and to the people around me. But sadly
      > and unfortunately, they don't usually feel that way in the long
      > run. Even increasing numbers of Christian counselors now readily
      > admit that "ex-gay" ministries (and those who ascribe to anti-gay
      > theology) are trying to force people into a mold that doesn't
      really
      > fit and the results often lead to depression, addiction and
      > sometimes even suicide. According to one professional Christian
      > counselor: "When people repress their orientation, in order to
      make
      > all that work, they [often] hide under layers and layers of
      > incredibly destructive behavior." He concluded by
      > saying: "Ultimately, it kills." And if it doesn't physically kill
      > you, it will slowly eat away at your soul.
      >
      > (2) LEAVE THE CHURCH: With the second scenario, in the wake of
      > discovering that the promise of change is a false promise, they
      > throw out the baby with the bath water. They conclude that if the
      > Bible doesn't say exactly what they were told it says then any and
      > all turning to Jesus isn't worth anything at all. And unable to
      > separate the two, in hurt, in anger or in disappointment, they
      > tragically end up leaving the Church and their rich faith
      > altogether, trading off the Kingdom of God for a life of God knows
      > what.
      >
      > (3) ADOPT A LIBERAL "ANYTHING GOES" THEOLOGY: With the third
      > scenario they seek a group to give them comfort and find too often
      > that only the theologically liberal are willing to take
      > the "outcasts" in. I call this adopting an "anything goes" kind
      of
      > theology. The formerly more orthodox believer then, although
      slowly
      > and reluctantly at first, begins to adopt the beliefs of the group
      > that is willing to accept him or her. The old ideas and beliefs
      are
      > so closely associated with the group that inflicted the rejection
      > that they avoid them at all costs. And the rich gospel they once
      > joyfully embraced becomes so watered down one couldn't find it
      with
      > a magnifying glass.
      >
      > These are the scenarios that have befallen most of the Christian
      gay
      > people I've known over the past 20-plus years. And I think the
      Goy
      > website is a text book illustration of what I described above and
      a
      > pretty sad smoke screen for the real issues involved.
      >
      > In the final analysis I think homosexuality can probably best be
      > defined as the naturally occurring ability to fall in love with a
      > person of the same gender rather than with anyone of the other
      > gender. As such, and as any straight person would know from their
      > own experience of heterosexual orientation, it cannot be reduced
      to
      > a matter of genital nerve ending stimulation and body parts. It's
      > the same un-asked-for experience for heterosexuals and
      homosexuals;
      > only in the former case the person of affection is of the other
      > gender and in the latter case the person of affection is of the
      same
      > gender. Experientially, it's the very same core need, the very
      same
      > gift of God. It's about an involuntary enthusiasm of romantic
      > response in the presence of someone seen as wonderfully "other,"
      as
      > mystery, as precious "differentness" from one's own sense of self,
      > as complementary beloved. And it's about a deep longing for that
      > person in his or her absence. It is a lack that nothing but the
      > beloved can supply.
      >
      > [For a brief review of the passages often used to endorse "anti-
      gay"
      > theology refer to posts #3001-3005]
      >
      > -Alex
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
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      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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