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2712Re: www.AnythingButStraight.com

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  • nyguy_1225
    Mar 16, 2003
      Norm, thanks for the correction. I must have missed that as I
      perused the site, which does incidentally contain some interesting
      info. I'm just speculating here but I would think Jeremy's point in
      mentioning "ex-gay" ministries would be: "We don't at all agree with
      the "ex-gay" philosophies any longer as we have found them to be
      both unbiblical and unfruitful. But if that's what floats your boat
      (after all no one should have to violate their own conscience)
      here's how to reach them." Let's not forget that for almost 15
      years Courage was known as being Exodus-based. As such, people
      looking for an Exodus-based ministry might visit his site without
      knowning that they've completely changed their focus. Personally, I
      think he's just operating with integrity which is more than I can
      say for some of the others.

      -Alex

      --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, "Norm" <nojam75@y...> wrote:
      > Alex,
      >
      > The website does acknowledge that Jeremy Marks' Courage ministry
      is
      > still operating and lists Courage on the resources page of the
      > website. I think you are only refering to the Courage citation on
      > the website's scandals page.
      >
      > Jeremy Marks' Courage does have a unique viewpoint on ex-gay
      > ministries. Although he considers ex-gay ministries to
      > be "unbiblical", he still lists ex-gay ministries as a referal for
      > those who are too "intimidated" by pro-gay groups and find the
      > Church too "hostile". I'm not sure that is the most helpful way
      of
      > helping those who are uncomfortable or intimidated.
      >
      > - Norm! (nojam75@y...)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, nyguy_1225 <no_reply@y...>
      > wrote:
      > > It's an interesting web site and as anyone who posts on this
      board
      > > would know I'm all for exposing the "ex-gay" myth as the
      dangerous
      > > and too often fatal fraud that it is. But I must say I'm also
      > > somewhat concerned about exposing the myth by throwing out the
      > baby
      > > (i.e. Christian faith) with the bath water. Besen rightly
      > > acknowledges on his site that Jeremy Marks, for example, the
      > founder
      > > of Courage, London's first "ex-gay" ministry, after nearly 15
      > years
      > > of watching people struggle in vain to "change" their
      orientations
      > > renounced Exodus' methods by saying they were failing (and had
      > > failed!) in their efforts to change peoples' sexual
      orientation.
      > > But unfortunately Besen says nothing about the fact that Jeremy
      > and
      > > his Courage ministry are still going strong today stronger than
      > > ever!) now that the ministry has changed its focus and provides
      > > realistic support for Christian gay people. But without any
      > > knowledge of the other half of the story what are those who have
      > > been hurt and disillusioned by the "ex-gay" myth to conclude?
      > That
      > > their faith was useless and a fraud as well?
      > >
      > > I, like others, have heard the heart cry of those who have lost
      > > hope. I've seen people become seriously disillusioned. Many
      have
      > > felt exceedingly depressed and hopeless, others have embraced a
      > > liberal "anything-goes" type of pro-gay theology, adopting
      dubious
      > > interpretations of Scripture (in my opinion), and worse still,
      far
      > > more have left the Church altogether. We know the response of
      > > Christian psychotherapists and pastors is often: "Get rid of
      this
      > > disgusting homosexual habit and you'll be okay." And then not
      > able
      > > to "get rid" of their immutable sexual orientation no matter how
      > > long or hard they try, Christian gay people then turn to secular
      > > therapists or liberal religionists who say: "Get rid of this
      > > oppressive god-stuff and you'll be okay." Christian gay people
      > must
      > > have a more realistic alternative than either of these two
      > routes.
      > >
      > > -Alex
      > >
      > > --- In exexgayministry@yahoogroups.com, "Norm" <nojam75@y...>
      > wrote:
      > > > There's a new website about the "ex-gay" movement.
      > > > www.anythingbutstraight.com is the website for the upcoming
      > Wayne
      > > R.
      > > > Besen book. The website features a great chronology of some
      of
      > > the
      > > > notrious ex-gay scandals.
      > > >
      > > > - Norm! (nojam75@y...)
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