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2648Re: [ExExGayMinistry] Re: Reading Between the Lines...

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  • BearJER@Juno.com
    Jan 22, 2003
      Hi, Brian. I didn't realize I never answered any questions you asked.
      I'll try to briefly answer below.

      On Sun, 19 Jan 2003 17:12:34 -0000 calldon2k <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
      > ONE.) Where did you get the data for your statement
      > above, "hundreds, if not thousands" of folks have "work[ed] through
      their homosexuality and still stay married to a person of the opposite
      sex???" How do you come to the figure "hundreds, if not thousands?" Did
      you read this in a book? Did you take a poll/survey?

      ANSWER: This is a perception of mine from my experience in sharing with
      many other men and women and my knowledge that the Exodus movement is a
      large ministry movement. Even if there were only one in a hundred who
      went through some type of Exodus program and came away from that
      experience a better person, I believe there would be hundreds of persons
      who were positively, not negatively influenced. That is what I base it
      on. Nothing scientific, no poll. I personally know a number of men and
      women who went through an Exodus or Exodus type ministry and have decided
      not to practice homosexuality (only dealing with behavior here), and seem
      to be relatively well adjusted in their decisions, I among them.
      > TWO.) Define specifically "work through their homosexuality???"

      ANSWER: Working through issues which they believe may have caused their
      homosexual orientation, such as a distant father in their early
      childhood, etc. I believe that was it in my case because I have a very
      sensitive personality and my father ridiculed me for studying Latin, I
      was afraid of him during early childhood, that type of thing.

      > Do you mean that they are now heterosexual?

      ANSWER: No, in most cases I don't think there are very many whose basic
      sexual orientation actually changes. However, there are those who
      testify that theirs has changed and I do not choose to call them a liar
      or do I have any reason to do so. In my case, I still would say that I
      have a basic homosexual orientation. However, I have learned more
      masculine characteristics and have had some small changes toward a more
      heterosexual orientation. Let me give you an example: I used to carry
      my school books, etc. clutched to my chest (breast). Today I carry
      articles down at my side the way most men do and it is natural for me.
      This is just one example of mine.

      > Do you mean that they deny their sexuality?

      ANSWER: No, certainly not. Some men do that, but I don't believe that
      is God's will. He created our sexuality and he said "it was very good."

      > Do you mean that they stay married and still have sex with men?

      ANSWER: Some may have a homosexual encounter from time to time. Others
      set clear boundaries (if they happen to be married, as I am) and no
      longer have physical sex with men. There are all kinds of things that we
      will permit and will not permit as far as boundaries are concerned. I
      think that is why the Lord said through the apostle Paul, "All things are
      lawful unto me, but not all things are expedient." (Book of Romans).

      > So you mean that they have sex with their wife while still
      > fanticising about men?

      ANSWER: Sometimes. I have done so. I've even fantacized about a horse.
      But anymore I don't often fantacize about having sex with any other
      person when I'm having sex with my wife (and we have generally had sex an
      average of three times weekly in our early marriage and a little less
      frequently now that we are getting older).
      > THREE.) How many of these "hundreds, if not thousands" of folks have
      you met, do you know personally?

      ANSWER: Not many, perhaps about 25 and I don't have regular contact with
      them all the time. But I don't believe they are all liars when they give
      their testimonies in various circles of which I am a part.
      > FOUR.) If someone comes to another conclusion from what you
      > consider "REAL TRUTH," do you ever think that THEY might have
      > the "REAL TRUTH" and that your "truth" might actually be error?

      ANSWER: Sure. I've been wrong before and I know I'll be proven wrong
      again. I just mean by this that I believe that God is the source of all
      REAL TRUTH. And IF the Bible is his word, instruction book, then what
      better place to get the truth, then from it?
      > FIVE.) What if new truth was discovered that conflicted with
      > your "REAL TRUTH?" Would you honestly embrace the new truth or
      > stubbornly cling to your "REAL TRUTH" even when it is revealed to be
      > error?

      ANSWER: I hope so. I know my heart and I believe I am sincere, so if
      you can prove homosexuality is ok from the Bible, then I'm ready, willing
      and able to accept it. In fact, I have been really wanting someone to
      prove it to me by the Bible. That's why I requested to be included on
      this site. I heard that theologically there were people that believed
      they could show (prove) by the Bible that homosexual behavior was ok. I
      would not leave my wife, but I may discretely have another relationship -
      if I came to believe that God thought having homosexual sex with a
      lifelong partner (or otherwise) was fine with him.
      > SIX.) You and HOW MANY OTHERS are "LIVING proof?"

      ANSWER: I don't know. See above answers. By living proof I mean those
      who have decided not to practice homosexuality (outwardly), even though
      they are homosexual and are no worse for wear. Not everyone has had a
      bad experience by saying NO - that they are not going to be practicing
      > SEVEN.) Living proof of WHAT specifically?
      ANSWER: Answered above.

      > EIGHT.) Jerry, exactly when would you advise a married gay man to
      > seek divorce? What would cause you to do that?

      ANSWER: I believe that marriage should not be entered into lightly.
      However, after a person does get married, then the Bible teaches us that
      a "man should love his wife as Christ loves the church." That involves
      protection, cherishing, meeting needs, etc. Some of us homosexual men
      have a great many un-fulfilled needs of our own and it is very difficult
      for us to minister to our wife and meet her un-fulfilled needs. However,
      if both partners are willing and honest with one another, I believe it is
      entirely possible to work issues out and, in most cases, stay married. I
      have no blanket answer to that. The best answer is for the couple to
      simply follow the Holy Spirit's leading. The scriptures do address
      marriage quite a bit, however, and a couple should study what the Bible
      has to say about the marriage covenant before any decision is made.

      If a wife is being brutally beaten by a husband, I would never advise her
      to stay in that kind of marriage. There are other situations like that
      when a spouse is in danger, etc.

      I hope this helps you know where I am coming from, even if you do not
      agree. The Bible itself says, "Prove all things and hold fast to that
      which is good."

      > COMMENT: Jerry, if I recall, I have asked you many questions in the
      > past and, if I recall, you have never bothered to answer any of
      > them. Please help me to understand exactly what you are promoting
      > by
      > answering my questions above.
      > Thanks!
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