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2507Basic Facts

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  • poker6900
    Oct 1, 2002
      I agree that there is no sound Biblical argument for the basis of the
      ex-gays.

      I was just presenting a reasonable postion against one of their basic
      views that "God created them Male and Female and told them to go
      forth and multiply". If you cannot even define what is male and what
      is female when 1 in 100 people have bodies that differ from the
      standard male or female (see message 2473 for the rest of the
      argument) than how can you use that argument.

      I don't understand why people never use this argument and I have
      never heard anyone ever argue against this argument.


      > Personally, I think this "misprogramming" nonsense is exactly that -
      -
      > nonsense. People have been arguing over the "causes" of
      > homosexuality for years and years and no doubt people will keep on
      > arguing. But the fact is nobody knows what why some people are
      > wired heterosexually-oriented and others homosexually-oriented.
      You
      > can read publications that talk about this cause and that cause and
      > the other cause. Every social scientist who has analyzed this
      > matter says we don't know why. There are those who talk about
      > genetics. There are those who talk about biophysical. There are
      > those that talk about sociological, psychological factors. Nobody
      > knows.
      >
      > And those who are experts say, for the most part, there are a
      > variety of factors that interact with each other to create
      > homosexuality and it may even be that no two people are homosexual
      > for the same reason. We don't know what causes it. But what we
      do
      > know is that the imprintation of the consciousness and the
      > establishment of the orientation occurred so early in the
      > development of the individual that the individual never remembers
      > having made a choice. That's important because we often hear
      > rhetoric that says if you just pray and repent and turn away from
      > this that God will honor you and all will be well. Where do they
      > get the idea that God is as concerned about changing people's
      > orientation than they are? People do not need to repent of their
      > sexual orienetation (whether they are straight or gay) but rather
      of
      > their sinful responses to them.
      >
      > I think we should spend a little less time pontificating on
      > what "causes" someone to be gay and a little more time on why "ex-
      > gay" and other folks are so insistent that the Bible speaks against
      > homosexual orientation and any and all expressions of it. I have
      > yet to hear a convincing biblical argument in their favor, only the
      > same few passages repeatedly taken completely out of context.
      (I'll
      > welcome a biblical dialog on the subject with anyone who thinks
      they
      > have a sound biblical argument.) And God knows we've learned over
      > time that most "ex-gay" folks come to believe the whole "ex-gay"
      > doctrine is a lie. Their "success" rate is pretty dismal. So, as
      > far as I can see there is (a) no biblical basis for their belief
      and
      > (b) no evidence scientific, biblical or otherwise, of
      > their "change." And they want me to buy into that nonsense??!!
      > Surely they jest!
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