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Re: [exceptional-performance] Re: Show me the numbers. How has performance improvement impacted conversion rat

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  • Peter Booth
    Stoyan, Do you have a reference to the Google datapoint? Peter Booth (917) 445 5663 peter_booth@mac.com On Feb 22, 2009, at 3:03 PM, Stoyan Stefanov
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 23, 2009
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      Stoyan,

      Do you have a reference to the Google datapoint?

      Peter Booth 
      (917) 445 5663 peter_booth@...

      On Feb 22, 2009, at 3:03 PM, Stoyan Stefanov <stoyan@...> wrote:

      There's one study that shows that if users are able to complete their task (e.g. make a reservation) they perceive the site as faster, even though the roundtrip time may be slower than the competition :)

      But then there's Google maps that got 20% more traffic when they improved the loading time by 20%

      --
      Stoyan Stefanov

      On Feb 21, 2009, at 11:40 AM, "beinwal" <beinwal@gmail. com> wrote:

      Will they also be differentiating between perceived and actual
      response times?

      This is another grey area along with the impact of performance to
      overall customer satisfaction.

      We just redesigned our product pages and they have increased in size
      (a.k.a. slower), but the time where the page begins to render is much
      improved. I am hoping that helps to balance it out, but it is too
      soon to tell.

      --- In exceptional- performance@ yahoogroups. com, Steve Souders
      <steve@...> wrote:
      >
      > This year's Velocity conference will have at least two talks from
      big
      > (alexa top 100) websites that quantify the impact of page load times
      to
      > revenue.
      >
      > -Steve
      >
      > On 2/19/2009 1:07 PM, Peter Booth wrote:
      > >
      > > That's what got me thinking about A/B testing of performance
      changes.
      > >
      > >
      > > I was talking with a potential client two weeks ago and had an
      "Aha"
      > > moment.
      > > I realized that this guy really didn't want to hire me by the
      hour.
      > > He wanted to buy the results of performance engineering.
      > >
      > > If I could have told him
      > >
      > > "For X thousand dollars I can improve your typical Los Angeles 1.5
      > > MB/s DSL user's mean response time from seven sec to five sec"
      > >
      > > then he would have been delighted.
      > >
      > > If I could go further and say "This should increase your
      conversion
      > > rate from 17% to 21%"
      > > then he could easily see whether the work was worthwhile.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > On Feb 19, 2009, at 3:47 PM, Ernest Mueller wrote:
      > >
      > >> Yeah, this is hard. We have a complex site and so when we do
      > >> optimizations, it's usually around the same time as 50 different
      Web app
      > >> releases, all of which not only affect performance but also
      ideally are
      > >> targeted at driving conversion themselves.
      > >>
      > >> Ernest
      > >> ____________ _________ _
      > >> UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of
      > >> this IMPORTANT information is ENCOURAGED.
      > >>
      > >> From: Peter Booth <peter_booth@ ...
      <mailto:peter_ booth%40mac. com>>
      > >>
      > >> To: exceptional- performance@ yahoogroups. com
      > >> <mailto:exceptional -performance% 40yahoogroups. com>,
      yslow@yahoogroups. com
      > >> <mailto:yslow% 40yahoogroups. com>
      > >>
      > >> Date: 02/19/2009 02:43 PM
      > >>
      > >> Subject: [exceptional- performance] Show me the numbers. How has
      > >> performance improvement impacted conversion rate?
      > >>
      > >> Sent by: exceptional- performance@ yahoogroups. com
      > >> <mailto:exceptional -performance% 40yahoogroups. com>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> I take it on faith that, all things being equal, a faster website
      > >> will hold
      > >> peoples attention longer, and consequently have higher conversion
      > >> rates. I just
      > >> moved a domain from register.com to namecheap.com because I was
      > >> frustrated by
      > >> register's slow admin application.
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> I've also seen two quotes from Google and Amazon that are
      frequently
      > >> repeated, but
      > >> never with specific details connecting them to specific tests or
      > >> projects . I
      > >> don't have any personal experience of seeing conversion rates
      change
      > >> as a result
      > >> of changes in performance.
      > >>
      > >> Has anyone in this group seen this, either as A/B testing or
      > >> before/after?
      > >>
      > >> Can anyone quote, or even hint, at profit/sales/ revenue/signups
      rates
      > >> correlated
      > >> with performance?
      > >>
      > >> I'm contemplating finding a local online store and doing a
      project,
      > >> even as a
      > >> freebie, to get some data that I can use for marketing.
      > >>
      > >> Peter
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> <pic12382.gif> <pic17421. gif>
      > >
      > >
      >

    • Stoyan Stefanov
      From http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2006/11/need-for-speed-in-web-applications. html ... ThereĀ¹s also the Yahoo experiment that delaying a page artificially
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 23, 2009
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        Re: [exceptional-performance] Re: Show me the numbers. How has performance improvement impacted conversion rat From http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2006/11/need-for-speed-in-web-applications.html

        When launched, Google Maps was pretty slow, but a speed improvement brought a lot more traffic. "When the Google Maps home page was put on a diet, shrunk from 100K to about 70K to 80K, traffic was up 10 percent the first week and in the following three weeks, 25 percent more."

        There’s also the Yahoo experiment that delaying a page artificially with 400ms caused the abandonment rate (people go away before onload) to jump with 5-9%. So perceived performance may be different than roundtrip performance, but there’s a correlation between a slow site and people just giving up. In addition, once you leave a site because it’s slow, you often don’t bother to come back.

        I don’t have a URL that describes this experiment, just mentions in presentations from Yahoos here and there
        http://www.slideshare.net/stoyan/yslow-20-presentation
        http://www.slideshare.net/stubbornella/7-habits-of-exceptional-performance-presentation

        Best,
        Stoyan


        On 2/23/09 5:03 AM, "Peter Booth" <peter_booth@...> wrote:


         

        Stoyan,

        Do you have a reference to the Google datapoint?

        Peter Booth
        (917) 445 5663 peter_booth@... <mailto:peter_booth@...>

        On Feb 22, 2009, at 3:03 PM, Stoyan Stefanov <stoyan@...> wrote:


         

        There's one study that shows that if users are able to complete their task (e.g. make a reservation) they perceive the site as faster, even though the roundtrip time may be slower than the competition :)

        But then there's Google maps that got 20% more traffic when they improved the loading time by 20%

        --
        Stoyan Stefanov
        http://phpied.com <http://phpied>

        On Feb 21, 2009, at 11:40 AM, "beinwal" <beinwal@...> wrote:


         

        Will they also be differentiating between perceived and actual
        response times?  

        This is another grey area along with the impact of performance to
        overall customer satisfaction.  

        We just redesigned our product pages and they have increased in size
        (a.k.a. slower), but the time where the page begins to render is much
        improved.  I am hoping that helps to balance it out, but it is too
        soon to tell.

        --- In exceptional-performance@yahoogroups.com <mailto:exceptional-performance%40yahoogroups.com> , Steve Souders
        <steve@...> wrote:
        >
        > This year's Velocity conference will have at least two talks from
        big
        > (alexa top 100) websites that quantify the impact of page load times
        to
        > revenue.
        >
        > -Steve
        >
        > On 2/19/2009 1:07 PM, Peter Booth wrote:
        > >
        > > That's what got me thinking about A/B testing of performance
        changes.
        > >
        > >
        > > I was talking with a potential client two weeks ago and had an
        "Aha"
        > > moment.
        > > I realized that this guy really didn't want to hire me by the
        hour.
        > > He wanted to buy the results of performance engineering.
        > >
        > > If I could have told him
        > >
        > > "For X thousand dollars I can improve your typical Los Angeles 1.5
        > > MB/s DSL user's mean response time from seven sec to five sec"
        > >
        > > then he would have been delighted.
        > >
        > > If I could go further and say "This should increase your
        conversion
        > > rate from 17% to 21%"
        > > then he could easily see whether the work was worthwhile.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > On Feb 19, 2009, at 3:47 PM, Ernest Mueller wrote:
        > >
        > >> Yeah, this is hard. We have a complex site and so when we do
        > >> optimizations, it's usually around the same time as 50 different
        Web app
        > >> releases, all of which not only affect performance but also
        ideally are
        > >> targeted at driving conversion themselves.
        > >>
        > >> Ernest
        > >> ______________________
        > >> UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of
        > >> this IMPORTANT information is ENCOURAGED.
        > >>
        > >> From: Peter Booth <peter_booth@...
        <mailto:peter <mailto:peter> _booth%40mac.com>>
        > >>
        > >> To: exceptional-performance@yahoogroups.com <mailto:exceptional-performance%40yahoogroups.com>  
        > >> < <mailto:exceptional> mailto:exceptional <mailto:exceptional> -performance%40yahoogroups.com>,
        yslow@yahoogroups.com <mailto:yslow%40yahoogroups.com>  
        > >> <mailto:yslow <mailto:yslow> %40yahoogroups.com>
        > >>
        > >> Date: 02/19/2009 02:43 PM
        > >>
        > >> Subject: [exceptional-performance] Show me the numbers. How has
        > >> performance improvement impacted conversion rate?
        > >>
        > >> Sent by: exceptional-performance@yahoogroups.com <mailto:exceptional-performance%40yahoogroups.com>  
        > >> < <mailto:exceptional> mailto:exceptional <mailto:exceptional> -performance%40yahoogroups.com>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> I take it on faith that, all things being equal, a faster website
        > >> will hold
        > >> peoples attention longer, and consequently have higher conversion
        > >> rates. I just
        > >> moved a domain from register.com to namecheap.com because I was
        > >> frustrated by
        > >> register's slow admin application.
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> I've also seen two quotes from Google and Amazon that are
        frequently
        > >> repeated, but
        > >> never with specific details connecting them to specific tests or
        > >> projects . I
        > >> don't have any personal experience of seeing conversion rates
        change
        > >> as a result
        > >> of changes in performance.
        > >>
        > >> Has anyone in this group seen this, either as A/B testing or
        > >> before/after?
        > >>
        > >> Can anyone quote, or even hint, at profit/sales/revenue/signups
        rates
        > >> correlated
        > >> with performance?
        > >>
        > >> I'm contemplating finding a local online store and doing a
        project,
        > >> even as a
        > >> freebie, to get some data that I can use for marketing.
        > >>
        > >> Peter
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> <pic12382.gif><pic17421.gif>
        > >
        > >
        >

          
           
         
           
         
            


      • Yubin Liang
        Hi Stoyan, Thanks for the info. Could you share some of the methodologies used by the Yahoo experiment? Delaying a page by 400ms is hardly noticable by the
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 24, 2009
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          Hi Stoyan,

          Thanks for the info. Could you share some of the methodologies
          used by the Yahoo experiment? Delaying a page by 400ms is hardly
          noticable by the users, how could that result in 5-9% drop in total
          page traffic?

          Thanks.

          Yubin


          --- In exceptional-performance@yahoogroups.com, Stoyan Stefanov
          <stoyan@...> wrote:
          >
          > From
          > http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2006/11/need-for-speed-in-web-
          applications.
          > html
          >
          > > When launched, Google Maps was pretty slow, but a speed
          improvement brought a
          > > lot more traffic. "When the Google Maps home page was put on a
          diet, shrunk
          > > from 100K to about 70K to 80K, traffic was up 10 percent the
          first week and in
          > > the following three weeks, 25 percent more."
          >
          > There?s also the Yahoo experiment that delaying a page artificially
          with
          > 400ms caused the abandonment rate (people go away before onload) to
          jump
          > with 5-9%. So perceived performance may be different than roundtrip
          > performance, but there?s a correlation between a slow site and
          people just
          > giving up. In addition, once you leave a site because it?s slow,
          you often
          > don?t bother to come back.
          >
          > I don?t have a URL that describes this experiment, just mentions in
          > presentations from Yahoos here and there
          > http://www.slideshare.net/stoyan/yslow-20-presentation
          > http://www.slideshare.net/stubbornella/7-habits-of-exceptional-
          performance-p
          > resentation
          >
          > Best,
          > Stoyan
          >
          >
          > On 2/23/09 5:03 AM, "Peter Booth" <peter_booth@...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Stoyan,
          > >
          > > Do you have a reference to the Google datapoint?
          > >
          > > Peter Booth
          > > (917) 445 5663 peter_booth@... <mailto:peter_booth@...>
          > >
          > > On Feb 22, 2009, at 3:03 PM, Stoyan Stefanov <stoyan@...> wrote:
          > >
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> There's one study that shows that if users are able to complete
          their task
          > >> (e.g. make a reservation) they perceive the site as faster, even
          though the
          > >> roundtrip time may be slower than the competition :)
          > >>
          > >> But then there's Google maps that got 20% more traffic when they
          improved the
          > >> loading time by 20%
          > >>
          > >> --
          > >> Stoyan Stefanov
          > >> http://phpied.com <http://phpied>
          > >>
          > >> On Feb 21, 2009, at 11:40 AM, "beinwal" <beinwal@...> wrote:
          > >>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>> Will they also be differentiating between perceived and actual
          > >>> response times?
          > >>>
          > >>> This is another grey area along with the impact of performance
          to
          > >>> overall customer satisfaction.
          > >>>
          > >>> We just redesigned our product pages and they have increased in
          size
          > >>> (a.k.a. slower), but the time where the page begins to render
          is much
          > >>> improved. I am hoping that helps to balance it out, but it is
          too
          > >>> soon to tell.
          > >>>
          > >>> --- In exceptional-performance@yahoogroups.com
          > >>> <mailto:exceptional-performance%40yahoogroups.com> , Steve
          Souders
          > >>> <steve@> wrote:
          > >>>> >
          > >>>> > This year's Velocity conference will have at least two talks
          from
          > >>> big
          > >>>> > (alexa top 100) websites that quantify the impact of page
          load times
          > >>> to
          > >>>> > revenue.
          > >>>> >
          > >>>> > -Steve
          > >>>> >
          > >>>> > On 2/19/2009 1:07 PM, Peter Booth wrote:
          > >>>>> > >
          > >>>>> > > That's what got me thinking about A/B testing of
          performance
          > >>> changes.
          > >>>>> > >
          > >>>>> > >
          > >>>>> > > I was talking with a potential client two weeks ago and
          had an
          > >>> "Aha"
          > >>>>> > > moment.
          > >>>>> > > I realized that this guy really didn't want to hire me by
          the
          > >>> hour.
          > >>>>> > > He wanted to buy the results of performance engineering.
          > >>>>> > >
          > >>>>> > > If I could have told him
          > >>>>> > >
          > >>>>> > > "For X thousand dollars I can improve your typical Los
          Angeles 1.5
          > >>>>> > > MB/s DSL user's mean response time from seven sec to five
          sec"
          > >>>>> > >
          > >>>>> > > then he would have been delighted.
          > >>>>> > >
          > >>>>> > > If I could go further and say "This should increase your
          > >>> conversion
          > >>>>> > > rate from 17% to 21%"
          > >>>>> > > then he could easily see whether the work was worthwhile.
          > >>>>> > >
          > >>>>> > >
          > >>>>> > >
          > >>>>> > > On Feb 19, 2009, at 3:47 PM, Ernest Mueller wrote:
          > >>>>> > >
          > >>>>>> > >> Yeah, this is hard. We have a complex site and so when
          we do
          > >>>>>> > >> optimizations, it's usually around the same time as 50
          different
          > >>> Web app
          > >>>>>> > >> releases, all of which not only affect performance but
          also
          > >>> ideally are
          > >>>>>> > >> targeted at driving conversion themselves.
          > >>>>>> > >>
          > >>>>>> > >> Ernest
          > >>>>>> > >> ______________________
          > >>>>>> > >> UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of
          > >>>>>> > >> this IMPORTANT information is ENCOURAGED.
          > >>>>>> > >>
          > >>>>>> > >> From: Peter Booth <peter_booth@
          > >>> <mailto:peter <mailto:peter> _booth%40mac.com>>
          > >>>>>> > >>
          > >>>>>> > >> To: exceptional-performance@yahoogroups.com
          > >>>>>> <mailto:exceptional-performance%40yahoogroups.com>
          > >>>>>> > >> < <mailto:exceptional> mailto:exceptional
          <mailto:exceptional>
          > >>>>>> -performance%40yahoogroups.com>,
          > >>> yslow@yahoogroups.com <mailto:yslow%40yahoogroups.com>
          > >>>>>> > >> <mailto:yslow <mailto:yslow> %40yahoogroups.com>
          > >>>>>> > >>
          > >>>>>> > >> Date: 02/19/2009 02:43 PM
          > >>>>>> > >>
          > >>>>>> > >> Subject: [exceptional-performance] Show me the numbers.
          How has
          > >>>>>> > >> performance improvement impacted conversion rate?
          > >>>>>> > >>
          > >>>>>> > >> Sent by: exceptional-performance@yahoogroups.com
          > >>>>>> <mailto:exceptional-performance%40yahoogroups.com>
          > >>>>>> > >> < <mailto:exceptional> mailto:exceptional
          <mailto:exceptional>
          > >>>>>> -performance%40yahoogroups.com>
          > >>>>>> > >>
          > >>>>>> > >>
          > >>>>>> > >> I take it on faith that, all things being equal, a
          faster website
          > >>>>>> > >> will hold
          > >>>>>> > >> peoples attention longer, and consequently have higher
          conversion
          > >>>>>> > >> rates. I just
          > >>>>>> > >> moved a domain from register.com to namecheap.com
          because I was
          > >>>>>> > >> frustrated by
          > >>>>>> > >> register's slow admin application.
          > >>>>>> > >>
          > >>>>>> > >>
          > >>>>>> > >>
          > >>>>>> > >>
          > >>>>>> > >> I've also seen two quotes from Google and Amazon that
          are
          > >>> frequently
          > >>>>>> > >> repeated, but
          > >>>>>> > >> never with specific details connecting them to specific
          tests or
          > >>>>>> > >> projects . I
          > >>>>>> > >> don't have any personal experience of seeing conversion
          rates
          > >>> change
          > >>>>>> > >> as a result
          > >>>>>> > >> of changes in performance.
          > >>>>>> > >>
          > >>>>>> > >> Has anyone in this group seen this, either as A/B
          testing or
          > >>>>>> > >> before/after?
          > >>>>>> > >>
          > >>>>>> > >> Can anyone quote, or even hint, at
          profit/sales/revenue/signups
          > >>> rates
          > >>>>>> > >> correlated
          > >>>>>> > >> with performance?
          > >>>>>> > >>
          > >>>>>> > >> I'm contemplating finding a local online store and
          doing a
          > >>> project,
          > >>>>>> > >> even as a
          > >>>>>> > >> freebie, to get some data that I can use for marketing.
          > >>>>>> > >>
          > >>>>>> > >> Peter
          > >>>>>> > >>
          > >>>>>> > >>
          > >>>>>> > >>
          > >>>>>> > >> <pic12382.gif><pic17421.gif>
          > >>>>> > >
          > >>>>> > >
          > >>>> >
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >>
          >
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