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Re: [evonline2002_webheads] Short Learning Communities Session Tomorrow

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  • vstevens
    Hey John, Webheads (Susanne Nyrop actually) have put together a customized calendar at Time and Date dot com
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 10, 2004
      Hey John,

      Webheads (Susanne Nyrop actually) have put together a customized calendar at
      Time and Date dot com
      http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=2,58,53,69,72,769,102,108,133,137,152,155,418,256,241,248

      To add or remove cities you simply slot their number codes into the url
      above. This is for current time but there must be a feature for fixed time
      as well, in case you want to display the time of your conference for
      example.

      For a conference like yours which takes place over a 24 hour period and
      circumnavigates the globe, time synch is more of an issue than it is for the
      odd one off. And Midi is aware of these issues and experienced in handling
      them, so helping participants with time is a good move, when it's done
      properly.

      I just took advantage of an opportunity to raise consciousness on the issue.
      We've got to have our eye on the global clock, not on our wristwatches, when
      we plan these things. The complexity is more than many realize, and to get
      it right, we all need to work in GMT.

      Best,

      Vance



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "John Hibbs" <hibbs@...>
      To: <evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 5:46 AM
      Subject: Re: [evonline2002_webheads] Short Learning Communities Session
      Tomorrow


      >
      >
      > The person who *actually* runs our conference(s), Dr. Midi Cox, and
      > who puts the schedule together agrees completely with Vance Stevens.
      > What she also does is make an icon which when you click it takes you
      > to "your local time" as determined by www.timeanddate.com
      >
      > Maybe Vance - and Midi - is right. To each his own.
      >
      > P.S. That's a good point about London and GMT. Until GLD #1, I
      > thought they were the same. :)
      >
      >
      > At 10:52 PM +0400 10/10/04, vstevens wrote:
      > >John and all,
      > >
      > >I beg to differ here. I don't think times in major cities should be
      > >announced by conference leaders for three reasons. First of all, people
      in
      > >major cities should know what their time is in GMT. Secondly, it's a bit
      of
      > >a burden on the conference announcer who then has to work out the time in
      > >all these places taking into acct including springing forward and falling
      > >back each spring and fall, on different days of the year in different
      > >places, not to mention the half hour time warp in Adelaide, and finally,
      > >third, there's a good possibility they'll get it WRONG and cause greater
      > >confusion and missed appointments.
      >
      >
    • Susanne Nyrop
      Hi John & Vance, I think time zone differences and calculations is something an onliner need to learn by heart. Did you know that BJ has several cheap alarm
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 11, 2004
        Hi John & Vance,

        I think time zone differences and calculations is
        something an onliner need to learn by heart. Did you
        know that BJ has several cheap alarm clocks, set to
        different time zones, placed near her computer screen?
        She was the one who taught me how to overcome the
        challenge - when I was practising as a helpdesk
        mentee long, long ago in TI. Ever since,
        I've had a little passion for understanding all this,
        and acting accordingly - especially after having
        missed one or two online appointments myself or given
        a false information to someone. Now, I always know
        without having to check it, that Denmark is GMT + 2
        in the summer and GMT + 1 in the winter. Those who
        have traveled across time zones know how hard it can
        be, to jump forwards, like being hungry and sleepy at
        the wrong hours


        Did you take a look?

        This shows a "personalized World clock" - let's refer
        to it as the PWC

        With a little patience, and the name of up to 16
        relevant cities, hour for hour, anyone can create
        this for any purpose, and for free, at
        www.timeanddate.com -

        The PWC has several formats; the link Vance posted is
        sorted by cities alphabetically - my preferred view is
        sorted by time. i.e. showing the time moving around
        the globe - from Vancouver 1:45 am to Melbourne 6:45
        pm, or 18.45 ( a difference of 17 hours).
        This sorting has an end number 2 in the URL


        http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=2,58,53,69,72,769,102,108,133,137,152,155,418,256,241,248&&&&sort=2

        Those rules were made for global understanding! And
        when I take another look at this time zone schedule, I
        come to think this topic could be used for a playful
        game session of Time Zone Bingo! or something like
        that :-)

        Memento!

        I had chosen Greenwich as one of the locations,
        believing that GMT is Greenwich time! But, even in
        Greenwich, people live with daylight saving time, so
        this is not helpful; I still need to figure out how to
        feature one frame with GMT, same as UST, Universal
        Standard Time?

        yours, Sus



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      • John Hibbs
        What I like about this issue is that it is at least as much *cultural* as it is technological. Europeans are better at it, culturally, than we North Americans
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 11, 2004
          What I like about this issue is that it is at least as much
          *cultural* as it is technological. Europeans are better at it,
          culturally, than we North Americans - evidence of which is that
          European signature lines often includes a (plus) or (minus) from GMT.
          Global awareness is a good thing; and checking the world time clock
          aids in that. Methinks.

          I contend that conference organizers who are keenly aware of the
          "local time" do a better job if they recognize "time" is a "two way
          street".

          Not only is it important for the audience to know when the presenters
          will begin, it is important for presenters to know what time it is
          for their audience members, particularly if there is inter-activity
          (....and if no inter-activity, why get up for real time deliveries?
          Why not just visit the archives?)

          {Let me ask this. Should more consideration be given to the audience
          member who has stayed up until 2 a.m. as vs. the audience member
          sitting in the hall where the presentation is taking place?}

          NOTE: I like what Midi does. She sets the schedule in GMT and then
          provides a link to a page at www.timeanddate.com which shows a list
          of major cities and what is the local time in each of those cities.
          This helps *everybody*. It's wonderful and I'm deeply appreciative
          that she has both the brain power and the skills to do that. (So far,
          www.timeanddate.com seems to "know" when each city has moved its
          clocks forward or back; or operates on the 1/2 hour).

          My fundamental point is the "cultural" (global) aspect is important.
          And so is this: Although we live in a globalized, Google-ized world,
          sleep patterns don't change and neither does the demand to match
          resource to benefit.

          As Franklin says, " ....'time' is our the most important
          commodity...".Taking "time" into consideration is an important
          consideration. Which might mean this conversation was worth the time
          we gave it? Or was not?


          At 6:45 AM +0400 10/11/04, vstevens wrote:
          >Hey John,
          >
          >Webheads (Susanne Nyrop actually) have put together a customized calendar at
          >Time and Date dot com
          >http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=2,58,53,69,72,769,102,108,133,137,152,155,418,256,241,248
          >
          >To add or remove cities you simply slot their number codes into the url
          >above. This is for current time but there must be a feature for fixed time
          >as well, in case you want to display the time of your conference for
          >example.
          >
          >For a conference like yours which takes place over a 24 hour period and
          >circumnavigates the globe, time synch is more of an issue than it is for the
          >odd one off. And Midi is aware of these issues and experienced in handling
          >them, so helping participants with time is a good move, when it's done
          >properly.
          >
          >I just took advantage of an opportunity to raise consciousness on the issue.
          >We've got to have our eye on the global clock, not on our wristwatches, when
          >we plan these things. The complexity is more than many realize, and to get
          >it right, we all need to work in GMT.
          >
          >Best,
          >
          >Vance
          >
          >
          >
          >----- Original Message -----
          >From: "John Hibbs" <hibbs@...>
          >To: <evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com>
          >Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 5:46 AM
          >Subject: Re: [evonline2002_webheads] Short Learning Communities Session
          >Tomorrow
          >
          >
          >>
          >>
          >> The person who *actually* runs our conference(s), Dr. Midi Cox, and
          >> who puts the schedule together agrees completely with Vance Stevens.
          >> What she also does is make an icon which when you click it takes you
          >> to "your local time" as determined by www.timeanddate.com
          >>
          >> Maybe Vance - and Midi - is right. To each his own.
          >>
          >> P.S. That's a good point about London and GMT. Until GLD #1, I
          >> thought they were the same. :)
          >>
          >>
          >> At 10:52 PM +0400 10/10/04, vstevens wrote:
          >> >John and all,
          >> >
          >> >I beg to differ here. I don't think times in major cities should be
          >> >announced by conference leaders for three reasons. First of all, people
          >in
          >> >major cities should know what their time is in GMT. Secondly, it's a bit
          >of
          >> >a burden on the conference announcer who then has to work out the time in
          >> >all these places taking into acct including springing forward and falling
          >> >back each spring and fall, on different days of the year in different
          > > >places, not to mention the half hour time warp in Adelaide, and finally,
          > > >third, there's a good possibility they'll get it WRONG and cause greater
          > > >confusion and missed appointments.
          > >
        • vstevens
          Good point John, and well done with GLD! Vance ... From: John Hibbs To: Sent: Monday, October
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 11, 2004
            Good point John, and well done with GLD!

            Vance

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "John Hibbs" <hibbs@...>
            To: <evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 5:38 PM
            Subject: Re: [evonline2002_webheads] What time is it?

            >
            > Not only is it important for the audience to know when the presenters
            > will begin, it is important for presenters to know what time it is
            > for their audience members, particularly if there is inter-activity
            > (....and if no inter-activity, why get up for real time deliveries?
            > Why not just visit the archives?)
            >
            > {Let me ask this. Should more consideration be given to the audience
            > member who has stayed up until 2 a.m. as vs. the audience member
            > sitting in the hall where the presentation is taking place?}
          • Mustafa Hurses
            Dear all Sorry havent been able to contact you for a long time because have been very busy. I have been reading your e-mails evreyone has been working hard so
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 11, 2004
              Dear all

              Sorry havent been able to contact you for a long time because have been very busy. I have been reading your e-mails evreyone has been working hard so soon I shall join you.

              Sorry Buth and vance havent been able to talk to you too but soon I shall be in contact.

              Everybody take care.
              Mustafa

              vstevens <vstevens@...> wrote:
              Hey John,

              Webheads (Susanne Nyrop actually) have put together a customized calendar at
              Time and Date dot com
              http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=2,58,53,69,72,769,102,108,133,137,152,155,418,256,241,248

              To add or remove cities you simply slot their number codes into the url
              above. This is for current time but there must be a feature for fixed time
              as well, in case you want to display the time of your conference for
              example.

              For a conference like yours which takes place over a 24 hour period and
              circumnavigates the globe, time synch is more of an issue than it is for the
              odd one off. And Midi is aware of these issues and experienced in handling
              them, so helping participants with time is a good move, when it's done
              properly.

              I just took advantage of an opportunity to raise consciousness on the issue.
              We've got to have our eye on the global clock, not on our wristwatches, when
              we plan these things. The complexity is more than many realize, and to get
              it right, we all need to work in GMT.

              Best,

              Vance



              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "John Hibbs" <hibbs@...>
              To: <evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 5:46 AM
              Subject: Re: [evonline2002_webheads] Short Learning Communities Session
              Tomorrow


              >
              >
              > The person who *actually* runs our conference(s), Dr. Midi Cox, and
              > who puts the schedule together agrees completely with Vance Stevens.
              > What she also does is make an icon which when you click it takes you
              > to "your local time" as determined by www.timeanddate.com
              >
              > Maybe Vance - and Midi - is right. To each his own.
              >
              > P.S. That's a good point about London and GMT. Until GLD #1, I
              > thought they were the same. :)
              >
              >
              > At 10:52 PM +0400 10/10/04, vstevens wrote:
              > >John and all,
              > >
              > >I beg to differ here. I don't think times in major cities should be
              > >announced by conference leaders for three reasons. First of all, people
              in
              > >major cities should know what their time is in GMT. Secondly, it's a bit
              of
              > >a burden on the conference announcer who then has to work out the time in
              > >all these places taking into acct including springing forward and falling
              > >back each spring and fall, on different days of the year in different
              > >places, not to mention the half hour time warp in Adelaide, and finally,
              > >third, there's a good possibility they'll get it WRONG and cause greater
              > >confusion and missed appointments.
              >
              >



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              http://www.geocities.com/vance_stevens/papers/evonline2002/webheads.htm

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            • John Hibbs
              I know Vance and other very smart Webheads remain opposed to announcements with selected world times mentioned, but I still think this is a good idea. Below is
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 16, 2005
                I know Vance and other very smart Webheads remain opposed to
                announcements with selected world times mentioned, but I still think
                this is a good idea. Below is one such model (slightly flawed). It
                also came with the at the top of the email, which I also think is a
                good idea .

                Here is how it came to me

                >Info Page:
                >http://www.sabotenweb.com/bookmarks/about/52ndbenkyoukai.html
                >
                >SenseiOnline presents 52nd Benkyoukai (Study Forum)
                >Sandra P. Garcia "A TPRS Story"
                >
                >February 17th (Thursday), 2005 at 2pm PST
                >February 17th (Thursday) noon Hawaii, 4pm CST, 5pm EST, 10pm GMT, 10pm
                >London, February 18th (Friday) 7am Japan, 9am Sydney, 11am New Zealand,
                >if this calculation is correct. To be sure, please go to Timezone
                >Converter (<http://www.timezoneconverter.com/>)
                >
                >How long?
                >For about 50 minutes

                NOTE 1: The poor reference to GMT. The writer must have meant 22:00
                GMT. But it illustrates how the brain works - it's hard to reverse
                lifetime habits of thinking a.m. and p.m., and what time is it FOR ME?

                NOTE 2: I also think the day/date should be included, but this way

                DATE AND DAY:
                For those in the South Pacific and those in East and Central Asia,
                the event takes place on FRIDAY, Feb 18.

                For those elsewhere, it takes place on THURSDAY, Feb 17.
                ------

                Among other benefits, this model forces the presenters to accurately
                calculate the time zones in major world cities. It helps readers
                figure out if they can attend in real time. For all readers, it's a
                good reminder we live in a Google-ized, globalized world - and ALL of
                us have to think global at the same time we act local. That too is a
                good thing.

                My two Yankee cents.
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