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Fun with numbers

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  • Elizabeth Hanson-Smith
    Hi Nigel-- Sus is preparing some interesting data on number of turns that indicates far more than 8 major participants, but that doesn t account for timelines
    Message 1 of 4 , May 2, 2003
      Hi Nigel--
      Sus is preparing some interesting data on number of
      turns that indicates far more than 8 major
      participants, but that doesn't account for timelines
      of participation (we take turns being boundary members
      also), nor the quality of participation, nor the
      length of a "turn."
      Perhaps those 3 turns mentioned in the study below
      were crucial to the discussion? In one group I
      observed, the moderator/group leader had few turns,
      but they determined the direction of the discussion
      subsequently. Also, 3 turns might be 300% more
      participation than zero turns in a land-based
      discussion. Hence "more equitably," a relative term.
      My own observation is that chat induces far more
      equal participation in discussion than classroom
      discussion, or say, e-mail lists or BBs. (We are a
      list, not a chat, after all--apples and oranges.)
      Numbers also don't account for the fact that some
      of us communicate outside the list, esp. when we have
      a specific project underway, as recently the case with
      the PCI proposal on the one hand, and Daf's
      video-based class on the other, and Sus's CSCL
      conference planning on the third hand, and Chris
      Johnson's diss research on the fourth, and Asra's
      research on the fifth, etc. I would suggest that these
      are all part of our community effort, even though
      these discussions don't show up on the list. "Turns"
      are quite differently defined when you have a specific
      project to do with a specific group leader.
      Other factors: a "free" list where you can
      participate or not is quite different from a class
      list where a teacher might require a minimum number of
      posts from a student. Also, if all 100+ of us posted
      every day, a large number of us would quit the
      list--list members have to exercise good judgement in
      when to participate and when not.
      Stats in educational research _never_ give the
      whole picture.
      --Elizabeth

      >>>>>
      Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:10:23 -0400
      From: Nigel Caplan <nigel@...>
      Subject: Participation (number of posts)

      Hmmm ... according to the technophilliac literature,
      computer-mediated
      communication promotes equal participation. Some
      researchers have
      claimed (on rather shaky data) that CMC is fairer,
      more democratic, and
      less subject to sociolinguistic variables (age,
      gender, status) than
      F2F
      discussion groups in class.

      Yet, in a large list like this, 8 voices predominate.

      My favourite example from the literature is the
      oft-misquoted Kern
      1995:
      He claimed that his students participated more
      equitably in computer
      chat than in class discussion, but his data reveal a
      range of 3-23
      turns
      per student in a 50-minute session, meaning that he
      defines adequate
      online participation as "speaking" 3 times in 50
      minutes, and allows
      one
      speaker to take more than twice the mean average
      number of turns.
      Doesn't sound very equal to me.

      Reactions?
      Nigel
      <<<<<<<<<<
      Reference
      Kern, R.G. (1995). Restructuring classroom interaction
      with networked
      computers: Effects on quantity and characteristics of
      language
      production. "The Modern Language Journal", 79, 457-473

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    • Fernanda Rodrigues
      Hi I also find the idea of a logo competition interesting, but , like Don I think we should agree on some basic criteria. These are my opinions: On Tue, 06
      Message 2 of 4 , May 6, 2003
        Hi
        I also find the idea of a logo competition interesting, but , like Don
        I think we should agree on some basic criteria.
        These are my opinions:

        On Tue, 06 May 2003 22:41:11 -0700
        Don Carroll <dcarroll@...> wrote:

        > Dear all,
        >
        > It seems to me that designing a logo has to start with a set of design
        > criteria. For example:
        >
        > 1. What size(s) are needed? 250x250 (title graphic) 150x150 px (large)
        > 50x50 px (small)

        In my opinion 250x250 is too large even for the title graphic, 150x150
        is ok and so is the small one (or even smaller 45x45)

        > 2. Should the small logo be the same as the large logo?

        Yes!

        > 3. Should the logo be bitmap or scalable (vector) graphic?

        Vector

        > 4. What color should the background be? Or should it be available as a
        > transparent .gif as well?

        If it is to be used by everyone it should be transparent.


        >
        > The easiest solution would be to design the largest logo and then reduce
        > it. For this to work the logo has to be graphically simple -- which is a
        > characteristic of any good logo anyway. Small detail (including small
        > text) with disappear (or just look ugly) at smaller sizes. IMHO, the only
        > text (if any) that should appear on the WIA logo is WIA.

        I agree, and I also agree with Clair when she said it should not be
        animated.

        > I would also argue against too much "symbolism" and just go for simple
        > graphic impact. Just think how successful the "Happy Face" has been. For
        > example, something like the letters WIA (colors?) artistically superimposed
        > on a blue ball.

        well, the colour depends on the site on which it is to be included.

        Fernanda

        Fernanda Rodrigues
        Escola Secundária Sebastião da Gama
        Setúbal
        http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/users/essg/escola/default.asp
      • Don Carroll
        Dear all, It seems to me that designing a logo has to start with a set of design criteria. For example: 1. What size(s) are needed? 250x250 (title graphic)
        Message 3 of 4 , May 6, 2003
          Dear all,

          It seems to me that designing a logo has to start with a set of design
          criteria. For example:

          1. What size(s) are needed? 250x250 (title graphic) 150x150 px (large)
          50x50 px (small)

          2. Should the small logo be the same as the large logo?

          3. Should the logo be bitmap or scalable (vector) graphic?

          4. What color should the background be? Or should it be available as a
          transparent .gif as well?


          The easiest solution would be to design the largest logo and then reduce
          it. For this to work the logo has to be graphically simple -- which is a
          characteristic of any good logo anyway. Small detail (including small
          text) with disappear (or just look ugly) at smaller sizes. IMHO, the only
          text (if any) that should appear on the WIA logo is WIA.

          I would also argue against too much "symbolism" and just go for simple
          graphic impact. Just think how successful the "Happy Face" has been. For
          example, something like the letters WIA (colors?) artistically superimposed
          on a blue ball.


          Anyway, these are just a few opinions from the boundary.

          --Don




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ismail Fayed
          I have just came across an interesting and professional program for Icons desing not logo design, but I think it could help and enrich our experience as many
          Message 4 of 4 , May 7, 2003
            I have just came across an interesting and professional program for
            "Icons" desing not logo design, but I think it could help and enrich our
            experience as many of us are trying to explore more skills.

            The software is "AxiAlis - AX Icons" versions 1.1 and 4.5. I tried both
            shareware versions and I find it very flexible application. These icons
            that you will desing can be used in your web site in the address URL
            bar, I am not sure how, but we can try it together as well.

            You can find the shareware of the software at <http://www.axialis.com>

            Regards,
            Ismail.
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