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Re: [evonline2002_webheads] sortable tables

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  • J. H. Steele
    Ditto here using MS Explorer on a PC. Oh, and I second the idea of putting the institution on the list of topics. Dr. Cat Prof. John H. Steele, Ph.D. English
    Message 1 of 25 , May 1, 2003
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      Ditto here using MS Explorer on a PC. Oh, and I second the idea of putting
      the institution on the list of topics.

      Dr. Cat

      Prof. John H. Steele, Ph.D.
      English Department
      University of Puerto Rico at Aguadilla
      jhsteele@... http://www.eslpalace.com


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Maria Albers de Urriola" <miaupju@...>
      To: <evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 7:08 PM
      Subject: Re: [evonline2002_webheads] sortable tables


      Hi Fernanda,
      I had the same problem Susan had, after submiting I got the
      this-page-could-not-be-found message.
      Why not include the institution we work for? Everything depends on the
      purpose of the table.
      Greetings,
      María Irene
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Fernanda Rodrigues" <fernanda.rodrigues@...>
      To: <evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 7:33 PM
      Subject: Re: [evonline2002_webheads] sortable tables


      Hi all
      I'd like you to take a look and comment on the files I'm creating in
      order to produce (later) a sortable table. Do you think the fields are
      too many/too few/the right ones/sth important missing?

      http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/users/mfr/wia/

      Please say something. For the moment use:
      login:teste
      password: teste

      Fernanda

      Fernanda Rodrigues
      Escola Secundária Sebastião da Gama
      Setúbal
      http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/users/essg/escola/default.asp




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    • Fernanda Rodrigues
      Hi Sus, Maria and John I m trying to figure out why you got an error message after submitting. I tried the form mysel and had no problem and neither did Arif
      Message 2 of 25 , May 2, 2003
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        Hi Sus, Maria and John

        I'm trying to figure out why you got an error message after submitting.
        I tried the form mysel and had no problem and neither did Arif and
        Damian, who managed to insert their data, as you can see here:
        http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/users/mfr/wia/webheads.asp

        I'm including the institution as you suggested, and any more fields you
        find essential.
        The purpose of the files is to enable search and sorting by name,
        surname, or any other field.

        Fernanda

        On Fri, 02 May 2003 00:18:47 +0200
        Susanne Nyrop <s.nyrop@...> wrote:

        > Hi Fernanda,
        >
        > I tried to fill in your information template. And the questions (about
        > myself, my nationality etc) looked reasonable. But an error message turned
        > up when I wanted to submit. This might be caused of my Macintosh browser
        > version of Internet Explorer. Did anyone else have a similar problem?
        >
        > Yours, Sus
        >
        > > From: Fernanda Rodrigues <fernanda.rodrigues@...>
        > > Reply-To: evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com
        > > Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 00:33:42 +0100
        > > To: evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: Re: [evonline2002_webheads] sortable tables
        > >
        > >
        > > Hi all
        > > I'd like you to take a look and comment on the files I'm creating in
        > > order to produce (later) a sortable table. Do you think the fields are
        > > too many/too few/the right ones/sth important missing?
        > >
        > > http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/users/mfr/wia/
        > >
        > > Please say something. For the moment use:
        > > login:teste
        > > password: teste
        > >
        > > Fernanda
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > evonline2002_webheads-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > For more information:
        > http://www.geocities.com/vance_stevens/papers/evonline2002/webheads.htm
        >
        > When replying to postings, please delete this footer and any other extraneous text from the reply - Thanks!!
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >


        Fernanda Rodrigues
        Escola Secundária Sebastião da Gama
        Setúbal
        http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/users/essg/escola/default.asp
      • dafne Chavez
        Fernanda, I also got the error message after submitting :-( Daf Fernanda Rodrigues wrote:Hi Sus, Maria and John I m trying to
        Message 3 of 25 , May 2, 2003
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          Fernanda, I also got the error message after submitting :-( Daf

          Fernanda Rodrigues <fernanda.rodrigues@...> wrote:Hi Sus, Maria and John

          I'm trying to figure out why you got an error message after submitting.
          I tried the form mysel and had no problem and neither did Arif and
          Damian, who managed to insert their data, as you can see here:
          http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/users/mfr/wia/webheads.asp

          I'm including the institution as you suggested, and any more fields you
          find essential.
          The purpose of the files is to enable search and sorting by name,
          surname, or any other field.

          Fernanda

          On Fri, 02 May 2003 00:18:47 +0200
          Susanne Nyrop <s.nyrop@...> wrote:

          > Hi Fernanda,
          >
          > I tried to fill in your information template. And the questions (about
          > myself, my nationality etc) looked reasonable. But an error message turned
          > up when I wanted to submit. This might be caused of my Macintosh browser
          > version of Internet Explorer. Did anyone else have a similar problem?
          >
          > Yours, Sus
          >
          > > From: Fernanda Rodrigues <fernanda.rodrigues@...>
          > > Reply-To: evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com
          > > Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 00:33:42 +0100
          > > To: evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: Re: [evonline2002_webheads] sortable tables
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi all
          > > I'd like you to take a look and comment on the files I'm creating in
          > > order to produce (later) a sortable table. Do you think the fields are
          > > too many/too few/the right ones/sth important missing?
          > >
          > > http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/users/mfr/wia/
          > >
          > > Please say something. For the moment use:
          > > login:teste
          > > password: teste
          > >
          > > Fernanda
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > evonline2002_webheads-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > For more information:
          > http://www.geocities.com/vance_stevens/papers/evonline2002/webheads.htm
          >
          > When replying to postings, please delete this footer and any other extraneous text from the reply - Thanks!!
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >


          Fernanda Rodrigues
          Escola Secund�ria Sebasti�o da Gama
          Set�bal
          http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/users/essg/escola/default.asp



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        • Vance Stevens
          ... From: Chris Jones Subject: Wimba Hi, all, I enjoyed Teresa s presentation so much that I decided it was time to try voice chat with
          Message 4 of 25 , May 2, 2003
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            > Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:55:02 -0700 (PDT)
            From: Chris Jones <edtec2002@...>
            Subject: Wimba

            Hi, all,

            I enjoyed Teresa's presentation so much that I decided
            it was time to try voice chat with one of my classes.
            I've used all sorts of excuses in the past. Anyway I
            had 3 students who finished their work early in my
            Internet class login to Wimba. All the computers,
            including the instructor's, came up with "voice
            unavailable." :-( I then came back to my office and
            tried it here, and the voice was initialized fine. <

            Ok, what's the difference between your office and student computers? Ask you network administrator if there are any differences in firewall permissions. If he says not then it would be something particular to the computers themselves.

            Venny helped me out of a jam on my TESOL laptop by reminding me of this site:

            To resolve Java problems, update here: http://java.sun.com/getjava/index.html

            I've installed the fix to a couple of computers and got Wimba working. You might also look into Direct X issues. Do you have a different version of Direct-X on your office and student computers? MS have a new Direct-X 9.0 out that has resolved connectivity problems on some computers in my workplace (couldn't get tapped in before, now they can). I haven't had a chance to investigate this much, but these are two things you can try.

            I'm pretty sure that voice has somehow been disabled
            on most college computers. I also asked to have Real
            One put on the only computer in a regular classroom
            for next fall, so I could use Real English videos. I
            was asked specifically which classroom I use since
            Real One has been disabled in classrooms.

            It's evidentally a bandwith problem.

            This is reasonable. We had the same problem on our network at one point. Firewalls can be slowing you down. Redundant firewalls are a problem on some networks. Chokepoints at obsolute switches and routers can cause problems. You need Real functionality, so agitate for more bandwidth.

            Vance
          • Fernanda Rodrigues
            Could you please tell me what error message you get? Fernanda On Fri, 2 May 2003 08:28:59 -0700 (PDT)
            Message 5 of 25 , May 2, 2003
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              Could you please tell me what error message you get?

              Fernanda

              On Fri, 2 May 2003 08:28:59 -0700 (PDT)
              dafne Chavez <dygonza@...> wrote:

              > Fernanda, I also got the error message after submitting :-( Daf
              >
              > Fernanda Rodrigues <fernanda.rodrigues@...> wrote:Hi Sus, Maria and John
              >
              > I'm trying to figure out why you got an error message after submitting.
              > I tried the form mysel and had no problem and neither did Arif and
              > Damian, who managed to insert their data, as you can see here:
              > http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/users/mfr/wia/webheads.asp
              >
              > I'm including the institution as you suggested, and any more fields you
              > find essential.
              > The purpose of the files is to enable search and sorting by name,
              > surname, or any other field.
              >
              > Fernanda
              >
              > On Fri, 02 May 2003 00:18:47 +0200
              > Susanne Nyrop <s.nyrop@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Hi Fernanda,
              > >
              > > I tried to fill in your information template. And the questions (about
              > > myself, my nationality etc) looked reasonable. But an error message turned
              > > up when I wanted to submit. This might be caused of my Macintosh browser
              > > version of Internet Explorer. Did anyone else have a similar problem?
              > >
              > > Yours, Sus
              > >
              > > > From: Fernanda Rodrigues <fernanda.rodrigues@...>
              > > > Reply-To: evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com
              > > > Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 00:33:42 +0100
              > > > To: evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com
              > > > Subject: Re: [evonline2002_webheads] sortable tables
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Hi all
              > > > I'd like you to take a look and comment on the files I'm creating in
              > > > order to produce (later) a sortable table. Do you think the fields are
              > > > too many/too few/the right ones/sth important missing?
              > > >
              > > > http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/users/mfr/wia/
              > > >
              > > > Please say something. For the moment use:
              > > > login:teste
              > > > password: teste
              > > >
              > > > Fernanda
              > >
            • John H. Steele
              The error message I get is page not found . John (Dr. Cat) Prof. John H. Steele, Ph.D. English Department University of Puerto Rico at Aguadilla
              Message 6 of 25 , May 2, 2003
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                The error message I get is "page not found".

                John (Dr. Cat)

                Prof. John H. Steele, Ph.D.
                English Department
                University of Puerto Rico at Aguadilla
                j_steele@...
                http://www.eslpalace.com


                -----Original Message-----
                From: Fernanda Rodrigues [mailto:fernanda.rodrigues@...]
                Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 11:49 AM
                To: evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [evonline2002_webheads] Fernanda's sortable tables - mac
                Bug?

                Could you please tell me what error message you get?

                Fernanda

                On Fri, 2 May 2003 08:28:59 -0700 (PDT)
                dafne Chavez <dygonza@...> wrote:

                > Fernanda, I also got the error message after submitting :-( Daf
                >
                > Fernanda Rodrigues <fernanda.rodrigues@...> wrote:Hi Sus,
                Maria and John
                >
                > I'm trying to figure out why you got an error message after
                submitting.
                > I tried the form mysel and had no problem and neither did Arif and
                > Damian, who managed to insert their data, as you can see here:
                > http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/users/mfr/wia/webheads.asp
                >
                > I'm including the institution as you suggested, and any more fields
                you
                > find essential.
                > The purpose of the files is to enable search and sorting by name,
                > surname, or any other field.
                >
                > Fernanda
                >
                > On Fri, 02 May 2003 00:18:47 +0200
                > Susanne Nyrop <s.nyrop@...> wrote:
                >
                > > Hi Fernanda,
                > >
                > > I tried to fill in your information template. And the questions
                (about
                > > myself, my nationality etc) looked reasonable. But an error message
                turned
                > > up when I wanted to submit. This might be caused of my Macintosh
                browser
                > > version of Internet Explorer. Did anyone else have a similar
                problem?
                > >
                > > Yours, Sus
                > >
                > > > From: Fernanda Rodrigues <fernanda.rodrigues@...>
                > > > Reply-To: evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 00:33:42 +0100
                > > > To: evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Subject: Re: [evonline2002_webheads] sortable tables
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Hi all
                > > > I'd like you to take a look and comment on the files I'm creating
                in
                > > > order to produce (later) a sortable table. Do you think the fields
                are
                > > > too many/too few/the right ones/sth important missing?
                > > >
                > > > http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/users/mfr/wia/
                > > >
                > > > Please say something. For the moment use:
                > > > login:teste
                > > > password: teste
                > > >
                > > > Fernanda
                > >




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              • dafne Chavez
                This is it, Fernanda: HTTP 500 - Error interno del servidor Internet Explorer Daf Fernanda Rodrigues wrote:Could you please
                Message 7 of 25 , May 2, 2003
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                  This is it, Fernanda: HTTP 500 - Error interno del servidor
                  Internet Explorer Daf

                  Fernanda Rodrigues <fernanda.rodrigues@...> wrote:Could you please tell me what error message you get?

                  Fernanda

                  On Fri, 2 May 2003 08:28:59 -0700 (PDT)
                  dafne Chavez <dygonza@...> wrote:

                  > Fernanda, I also got the error message after submitting :-( Daf
                  >
                  > Fernanda Rodrigues <fernanda.rodrigues@...> wrote:Hi Sus, Maria and John
                  >
                  > I'm trying to figure out why you got an error message after submitting.
                  > I tried the form mysel and had no problem and neither did Arif and
                  > Damian, who managed to insert their data, as you can see here:
                  > http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/users/mfr/wia/webheads.asp
                  >
                  > I'm including the institution as you suggested, and any more fields you
                  > find essential.
                  > The purpose of the files is to enable search and sorting by name,
                  > surname, or any other field.
                  >
                  > Fernanda
                  >
                  > On Fri, 02 May 2003 00:18:47 +0200
                  > Susanne Nyrop <s.nyrop@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Hi Fernanda,
                  > >
                  > > I tried to fill in your information template. And the questions (about
                  > > myself, my nationality etc) looked reasonable. But an error message turned
                  > > up when I wanted to submit. This might be caused of my Macintosh browser
                  > > version of Internet Explorer. Did anyone else have a similar problem?
                  > >
                  > > Yours, Sus
                  > >
                  > > > From: Fernanda Rodrigues <fernanda.rodrigues@...>
                  > > > Reply-To: evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 00:33:42 +0100
                  > > > To: evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Subject: Re: [evonline2002_webheads] sortable tables
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi all
                  > > > I'd like you to take a look and comment on the files I'm creating in
                  > > > order to produce (later) a sortable table. Do you think the fields are
                  > > > too many/too few/the right ones/sth important missing?
                  > > >
                  > > > http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/users/mfr/wia/
                  > > >
                  > > > Please say something. For the moment use:
                  > > > login:teste
                  > > > password: teste
                  > > >
                  > > > Fernanda
                  > >



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                  var lrec_target="_top"; var lrec_URL = new Array(); lrec_URL[1] = "http://rd.yahoo.com/M=231971.3069703.4522067.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705080709:HM/A=1554463/R=0/id=flashurl/*http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?proflowers2+shopping:dmad/M=231971.3069703.4522067.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705080709:HM/A=1554463/R=1/1051890520+http://us.rmi.yahoo.com/rmi/http://www.proflowers.com/rmi-unframed-url/http://www.proflowers.com/freevase/index.cfm%3FREF=FGVYahooEgroupsLRECflash"; var link="javascript:LRECopenWindow(1)"; var lrec_flashfile = 'http://us.yimg.com/a/pr/proflowers2/proflowers_mom_300x250_30k.swf?clickTAG='+link+''; var lrec_altURL = "http://rd.yahoo.com/M=231971.3069703.4522067.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705080709:HM/A=1554463/R=2/id=altimgurl/*http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?proflowers2+shopping:dmad/M=231971.3069703.4522067.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705080709:HM/A=1554463/R=3/1051890520+http://us.rmi.yahoo.com/rmi/http://www.proflowers.com/rmi-unframed-url/http://www.proflowers.com/freevase/index.cfm%3FREF=FGVYahooEgroupsLRECgif"; var lrec_altimg = "http://us.yimg.com/a/pr/proflowers2/mday_300x250_vase_20k.gif"; var lrec_width = 300; var lrec_height = 250;
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Susanne Nyrop
                  Fernanda, When I try to enter my informations, my error message looks as follows: Microsoft JET Database Engine error 80004005 Field webheads_tbl.icq
                  Message 8 of 25 , May 2, 2003
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                    Fernanda,

                    When I try to enter my informations,


                    my error message looks as follows:


                    Microsoft JET Database Engine error '80004005'

                    Field 'webheads_tbl.icq' cannot be a zero-length string.

                    /users/mfr/wia/register.asp, line 115


                    (once I am at the fill in form, I still see no field for my occupation or
                    affiliation. Also, I am wondering what I am supposed to enter as my login
                    and Password(passwords are usually personal - and what domain are you
                    asking for?)

                    I was using the URL below. http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/users/mfr/wia/

                    Hugs, Sus


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Maria Albers de Urriola
                    The error is page not found, get in touch with http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/ María Irene ... From: Fernanda Rodrigues To:
                    Message 9 of 25 , May 2, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      The error is page not found, get in touch with http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/
                      María Irene
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Fernanda Rodrigues" <fernanda.rodrigues@...>
                      To: <evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 10:27 AM
                      Subject: Re: [evonline2002_webheads] Fernanda's sortable tables - mac Bug?


                      Hi Sus, Maria and John

                      I'm trying to figure out why you got an error message after submitting.
                      I tried the form mysel and had no problem and neither did Arif and
                      Damian, who managed to insert their data, as you can see here:
                      http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/users/mfr/wia/webheads.asp

                      I'm including the institution as you suggested, and any more fields you
                      find essential.
                      The purpose of the files is to enable search and sorting by name,
                      surname, or any other field.

                      Fernanda

                      On Fri, 02 May 2003 00:18:47 +0200
                      Susanne Nyrop <s.nyrop@...> wrote:

                      > Hi Fernanda,
                      >
                      > I tried to fill in your information template. And the questions (about
                      > myself, my nationality etc) looked reasonable. But an error message turned
                      > up when I wanted to submit. This might be caused of my Macintosh browser
                      > version of Internet Explorer. Did anyone else have a similar problem?
                      >
                      > Yours, Sus
                      >
                      > > From: Fernanda Rodrigues <fernanda.rodrigues@...>
                      > > Reply-To: evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 00:33:42 +0100
                      > > To: evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: Re: [evonline2002_webheads] sortable tables
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hi all
                      > > I'd like you to take a look and comment on the files I'm creating in
                      > > order to produce (later) a sortable table. Do you think the fields are
                      > > too many/too few/the right ones/sth important missing?
                      > >
                      > > http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/users/mfr/wia/
                      > >
                      > > Please say something. For the moment use:
                      > > login:teste
                      > > password: teste
                      > >
                      > > Fernanda
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      Fernanda Rodrigues
                      Escola Secundária Sebastião da Gama
                      Setúbal
                      http://www.prof2000.pt:9999/users/essg/escola/default.asp




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                    • CJones
                      Hi, Vance, Thanks for responding. I m sure this is something I have to work out with the technical staff at my college, and it is an issue of bandwith. The
                      Message 10 of 25 , May 2, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi, Vance,

                        Thanks for responding. I'm sure this is something I have to work out
                        with the technical staff at my college, and it is an issue of
                        bandwith. The difference between my office computer and the
                        computers in the labs and classrooms is Windows 98 vs Windows 2000.
                        The latter are locked down, so no programs can be added except by
                        technicians with appropriate passwords. I just found out this week
                        that Real One has been disabled or not installed on those computers.
                        I'm supposed to have Windows 2000 on my office computer as well, but
                        I've made a point not to complain about small problems this year.
                        The technicians have been too busy to go around and check all the
                        staff computers, but that may happen this summer.

                        Meanwhile I need to put on my most persuasive behavior and explain to
                        a couple administrators why I want to use software with voice
                        capabilities. My request for Yahoo Messenger in the computer
                        classroom next fall has already been made as well as Real One in the
                        other classroom I'll use. I had hoped to try out one of the Real
                        English videos with a class this spring. Too late now as we have
                        only one week of class and finals.

                        Chris Jones



                        --- In evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com, Vance Stevens
                        <vstevens@e...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:55:02 -0700 (PDT)
                        > From: Chris Jones <edtec2002@y...>
                        > I enjoyed Teresa's presentation so much that I decided
                        > it was time to try voice chat with one of my classes.
                        > I've used all sorts of excuses in the past. Anyway I
                        > had 3 students who finished their work early in my
                        > Internet class login to Wimba. All the computers,
                        > including the instructor's, came up with "voice
                        > unavailable." :-( I then came back to my office and
                        > tried it here, and the voice was initialized fine. <
                        >
                        > Ok, what's the difference between your office and student
                        computers? Ask you network administrator if there are any
                        differences in firewall permissions. If he says not then it would be
                        something particular to the computers themselves.
                        >
                        > Venny helped me out of a jam on my TESOL laptop by reminding me of
                        this site:
                        >
                        > To resolve Java problems, update here:
                        http://java.sun.com/getjava/index.html
                        >
                        > I've installed the fix to a couple of computers and got Wimba
                        working. You might also look into Direct X issues. Do you have a
                        different version of Direct-X on your office and student computers?
                        MS have a new Direct-X 9.0 out that has resolved connectivity
                        problems on some computers in my workplace (couldn't get tapped in
                        before, now they can). I haven't had a chance to investigate this
                        much, but these are two things you can try.
                        >
                        > I'm pretty sure that voice has somehow been disabled
                        > on most college computers. I also asked to have Real
                        > One put on the only computer in a regular classroom
                        > for next fall, so I could use Real English videos. I
                        > was asked specifically which classroom I use since
                        > Real One has been disabled in classrooms.
                        >
                        > It's evidentally a bandwith problem.
                        >
                        > This is reasonable. We had the same problem on our network at one
                        point. Firewalls can be slowing you down. Redundant firewalls are a
                        problem on some networks. Chokepoints at obsolute switches and
                        routers can cause problems. You need Real functionality, so agitate
                        for more bandwidth.
                        >
                        > Vance
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