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Todays' webcam Yahoo - see photos folder

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  • susannenyrop <s.nyrop@get2net.dk>
    Hi all, as I made a good deal of screen dumps (or images) from our webcam practice today, I have uploaded four or five of them in our Photos folder. They re
    Message 1 of 30 , Feb 2, 2003
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      Hi all,

      as I made a good deal of screen dumps (or images) from our
      webcam practice today, I have uploaded four or five of them in
      our Photos folder. They're not very small, about 200 kb each I
      think - but if I make a lower quality tha demands less disk space
      and download time, it is not easy to see who's who any longer.

      We started in Tapped In as usual but moved to yahoo
      Messenger because a lot of webcams were at hand. I have one
      picture with nine cams up! Many of you seemed to have great fun
      with voice - unfortunately this feature has not yet been available
      to Mac computers, and althoough Ive tried hard to run the virtual
      PC emulator on mac, it does not cooperate with the webcam (or,
      not yet, I might have to work harder on this).

      So, today, my own WCam only mounted after a reinstall of the
      webcam plugin and one more reboot of the computer - so I was
      only present for the last period. Apart from that I can recall the
      happy faces of Aiden (with younger son),
      Tere (with husband and someone else),
      Vance (in relaxed shirt and tie),
      Chris(topher) with his hats-on show,
      Rita with a great smile , back from holidays), Michael (the man in
      Orange),
      Arnold (testing voice in vain?)
      plus Claire (looking stoned)
      and Scott (with a lot of bookshelves, too)

      Yours,
      Sus
      (from Denmark)
    • Michael Coghlan
      ... Don - I think you have summed up the situation well. Voice technology has arrived . While the free low bandwith tools for video may be fun, I for one
      Message 2 of 30 , Feb 3, 2003
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        At 11:16 AM 3/02/2003 -0800, you wrote:
        >Dear all,
        >
        >I'm bummed out.
        >
        >Yesterday's webcam-session on Tapped In (actually in YM) was my first real
        >experience with this technology and to be completely honest I was entirely
        >underwelmed. Now I know this is a group dominated but cheerfully
        >undeterrable technophiles but...
        >
        >First of all, I was completely shocked to discover that webcaming (is this
        >a new term?) does not involve voice. I kept trying to figure out what I
        >was doing wrong because I wasn't getting any sound. I guess I have just
        >seen too many Hollywood movies where people are talking to each other
        >"face-to-face" via webcabs. What I saw last night was little more than
        >occasionally changing still-frames sans sound. Things got a little better
        >once we moved over to YM for a voice conference which had the effect of
        >adding an unsyncronized audio track to the visual element provided by the
        >webcam "moving stills." But this was a far (and unsatisfying) cry from
        >"video conferencing."
        >
        >Anyway, not to be completely negative, I'd been wondering what webcaming
        >brings to an online CoP like ours. As ScottLo said (via text I should
        >point out) out: "it's fun." Despite my disappointment, I agree. It WAS
        >fun to see faces "in motion" that I had only seen in stills on the
        >community page before. But I have to say it was infinitely better to hear
        >people's voice and (almost) have conversations. Voice chat seems to be a
        >technology that has "arrived" while webcaming, based on what I saw last
        >night, has not. Am I alone in this feeling? Was last night somehow NOT
        >representative of what is possible?
        >
        >--Don

        Don - I think you have summed up the situation well. Voice technology has
        'arrived'. While the free low bandwith tools for video may be fun, I for
        one would not include it in any serious class where people have paid good
        money. However, there are tools - very expensive tools - that are almost
        seamless in their delivery of voice and lip-synched video. And *one way*
        video/audio streaming via Real Player via a dial up modem is acceptable.

        And yes, we technophiles will keep trying. That is in part why Webheads
        exists. We keep trying these things and watch their progression. And we
        have seen voice technology progress from being a similarly frustrating
        not-worth-the-effort experience to something that is now acceptable. The
        same will happen with the use of video, and when it happens Webheads will
        be there!

        - Michael C.
      • dafne Chavez
        Dear Don and All, I am very sorry to hear that you are disappointed with your webcamming? experience. For me, using webcams has been a great experience. I have
        Message 3 of 30 , Feb 3, 2003
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          Dear Don and All,
          I am very sorry to hear that you are disappointed with your webcamming? experience. For me, using webcams has been a great experience. I have been able to know more about the people in this community, to develop tighter bonds. Being able to see the environment where my fellows work, how they dress and look on a Sunday morning or evening, their faces as they read and write messages to each other, etc., has made wonders for me. Now, when we are not using webcams I can imagine those people's expressions as I read their messages when we chat at TI, Yahoo Messenger, MSN or any other virtual environment. As for my students, being able to see each other has also been a fun and motivating factor that has shorten the physical distance.
          On the other hand, the web tools we mainly use are free, and we try to make the best use of them for our benefit and that of our students (Digital Divide in mind). Of course, paid services give more quality, and those who can afford them are blessed. In my personal case, learning the existance and use of the free tools we have explored, has given me the opportunity to offer my students a new way of learning, and for myself, a new world for teaching. All this experience with Webheads has indeed influenced my teaching and learning practice, but I will stop here since this is the topic of our week 5 session.
          I also believe that body language is important for communication, but that does not hinder the importance and effectiveness of written communication.
          I think each person needs be clear about his/her objectives, as well as the resources available, and try to use them in the best way possible to reach those objectives.
          When some of us met in Salt Lake City last year, it was, as I said in a previous message, like meeting old friends, and I think that it was due to the fact that we had not only seen our faces in pics, but we recognized our facial expressions as seen in our webcamming? sessions.
          I run to the computer store right after I saw Vance's face on my computer for the first time, and I am very happy to have it (they are very cheap and they even include some software for photo edition).
          Maybe I was a real newbie with no preconception of what everything was going to be like ;-)
          Cheers,
          Daf

          Don Carroll <dcarroll@...> wrote:Dear all,

          I'm bummed out.

          Yesterday's webcam-session on Tapped In (actually in YM) was my first real
          experience with this technology and to be completely honest I was entirely
          underwelmed. Now I know this is a group dominated but cheerfully
          undeterrable technophiles but...

          First of all, I was completely shocked to discover that webcaming (is this










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        • Don Carroll
          Dear all, I m bummed out. Yesterday s webcam-session on Tapped In (actually in YM) was my first real experience with this technology and to be completely
          Message 4 of 30 , Feb 3, 2003
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            Dear all,

            I'm bummed out.

            Yesterday's webcam-session on Tapped In (actually in YM) was my first real
            experience with this technology and to be completely honest I was entirely
            underwelmed. Now I know this is a group dominated but cheerfully
            undeterrable technophiles but...

            First of all, I was completely shocked to discover that webcaming (is this
            a new term?) does not involve voice. I kept trying to figure out what I
            was doing wrong because I wasn't getting any sound. I guess I have just
            seen too many Hollywood movies where people are talking to each other
            "face-to-face" via webcabs. What I saw last night was little more than
            occasionally changing still-frames sans sound. Things got a little better
            once we moved over to YM for a voice conference which had the effect of
            adding an unsyncronized audio track to the visual element provided by the
            webcam "moving stills." But this was a far (and unsatisfying) cry from
            "video conferencing."

            Anyway, not to be completely negative, I'd been wondering what webcaming
            brings to an online CoP like ours. As ScottLo said (via text I should
            point out) out: "it's fun." Despite my disappointment, I agree. It WAS
            fun to see faces "in motion" that I had only seen in stills on the
            community page before. But I have to say it was infinitely better to hear
            people's voice and (almost) have conversations. Voice chat seems to be a
            technology that has "arrived" while webcaming, based on what I saw last
            night, has not. Am I alone in this feeling? Was last night somehow NOT
            representative of what is possible?

            --Don







            Perhaps part of my dissatisfaction comes from the fact that much of my
            dissertation addresses the delicate ways that talk and body are mutually
            embedded. Unfortunately, the stuttering webcam images I saw last night
            were so rough (too few frames per second) that any ties between body and
            talk are lost. Only the crudest levels of action are visible, e.g. person
            stands up and leaves,






            While I had been considering buying a webcam but now I'm not so sure. It
            looks


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Chris Jones
            Hi, Don, and all, My first time for both voice chat and using a webcam happened one time last spring when I saw that Dafne was on YM. I was really surprised
            Message 5 of 30 , Feb 3, 2003
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              Hi, Don, and all,

              My first time for both voice chat and using a webcam
              happened one time last spring when I saw that Dafne
              was on YM. I was really surprised that I could see
              her on her webcam when I didn't have one. Even more
              than that we could have a conversation from opposite
              sides of the world, and it was FREE! Yes, a phone
              conversation is usually clearer, but how much do we
              pay per minute to call from the US to Spain? You also
              can't see the other person even in a rather jerky
              image.

              I guess it goes back to a similar adage to "Beauty is
              in the eye of the beholder." I was quite thrilled to
              be able to talk to someone so far away. After that, I
              was able to virtually visit one of Vance's sessions at
              TESOL last spring where he was broadcasting the voice
              and webcam of the person speaking. Meanwhile I was
              sitting in my office and getting ready to go to class.
              Since I was unable to attend TESOL last year, that
              was another thrill.

              Chris Jones

              --- Don Carroll <dcarroll@...> wrote:
              > I'm bummed out.
              >
              > Yesterday's webcam-session on Tapped In (actually in
              > YM) was my first real
              > experience with this technology and to be completely
              > honest I was entirely
              > underwelmed.

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            • dafne Chavez
              Hi Webheads, This is a surprise for a dear webhead! Check it out! http://www.geocities.com/dygonza/webheads/chrisonwebcam.html Cheers, Daf ... Do you Yahoo!?
              Message 6 of 30 , Feb 3, 2003
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                Hi Webheads,
                This is a surprise for a dear webhead! Check it out!
                http://www.geocities.com/dygonza/webheads/chrisonwebcam.html
                Cheers,
                Daf






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              • Vance Stevens
                This is the complete info on the article mentioned earlier http://iteslj.org/Techniques/Campbell-Weblogs.html Weblogs for Use with ESL Classes Aaron Patric
                Message 7 of 30 , Feb 3, 2003
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                  This is the complete info on the article mentioned earlier

                  http://iteslj.org/Techniques/Campbell-Weblogs.html

                  Weblogs for Use with ESL Classes
                  Aaron Patric Campbell Internet TESL Journal
                  Vol. IX, No. 2, February 2003

                  The purpose of this paper is to introduce three ways that weblogs can be used to support ESL classroom learning.
                  After defining what a weblog is, I will proceed to show how weblogs can be put into immediate use in the ESL
                  classroom by means of three distinct types: the tutor weblog, learner weblog, and class weblog. I will also
                  mention the software available for creating and maintaining weblogs.

                  In our last year's Webheads in Action sessions, WeBlogs were covered here:
                  http://www.geocities.com/vance_stevens/papers/evonline2002/week5.htm#blogs

                  I see Susanne has uploaded files on this topic to our FILES area.

                  Vance


                  Don Carroll wrote:

                  > Hi everyone,
                  >
                  > Can anyone point me to information about creating and using weblogs. I've
                  > already found somethings on the webheads site and played around with
                  > Blogger at bit. Can anyone offer any personal experience. I would like to
                  > get students doing both an individual blog as well as contributing to a
                  > "community blog."
                  >
                  > --Don
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > evonline2002_webheads-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > For more information:
                  > http://www.geocities.com/vance_stevens/papers/evonline2002/webheads.htm
                  >
                  > When replying to postings, please delete this footer and any other extraneous text from the reply - Thanks!!
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • CJones <edtec2002@yahoo.com>
                  Thanks, Daf, You re right! I m surprised. Probably you told me at the time that you were capturing me on my webcam, but I had long since forgotten. Chris
                  Message 8 of 30 , Feb 3, 2003
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                    Thanks, Daf,

                    You're right! I'm surprised. Probably you told me at the time that
                    you were capturing me on my webcam, but I had long since forgotten.

                    Chris

                    --- In evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com, dafne Chavez
                    <dygonza@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Webheads,
                    > This is a surprise for a dear webhead! Check it out!
                    > http://www.geocities.com/dygonza/webheads/chrisonwebcam.html
                    > Cheers,
                    > Daf
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
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                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • dafne Chavez
                    Hello Don, Maria Irene, and All, This is the chat we had while exploring some blog sites yesterday. The url s to several weblogs are included there. This log
                    Message 9 of 30 , Feb 4, 2003
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                      Hello Don, Maria Irene, and All,
                      This is the chat we had while exploring some blog sites yesterday. The url's to several weblogs are included there. This log can also be found in the Yahoo Group file, 2003 - week 3. It seems that our expert at weblogs are Sus and Arif. As you will find out through the chat, I am not a weblog fan (yet). I still prefer web pages, even though mine are not as savvy as Don would like our pages to be :-(
                      Hugs,
                      Daf
                      http://dygonza.esmartweb.com/evonline2003/week2/chat_on_blogs.htm
                      Don Carroll <dcarroll@...> wrote:Vance,

                      Thanks for the pointers on blogs. I've looked through a lot of
                      this. Questions remaining:

                      1. What's a rubric vs. a blog?
                      2. Does anyone have anything negative to say about Blogger.com?
                      3. Does anyone have any preferences among the free blog software mentions
                      in the Campbell article?
                      4. What experiences (good and bad) have you all have with blogs (with
                      students)?

                      All these questions are in preparation for an online "exploratory" course
                      I'll be doing next April.

                      --Don



                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      evonline2002_webheads-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                      For more information:
                      http://www.geocities.com/vance_stevens/papers/evonline2002/webheads.htm

                      When replying to postings, please delete this footer and any other extraneous text from the reply - Thanks!!

                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



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                    • dafne Chavez
                      Dear Don and All, A rubric is a performance-based evaluation instrument. Check these sites to find out what they are, how to use them, and how to design them.
                      Message 10 of 30 , Feb 4, 2003
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                        Dear Don and All,
                        A rubric is a performance-based evaluation instrument. Check these sites to find out what they are, how to use them, and how to design them.
                        http://stone.web.brevard.k12.fl.us/html/comprubric.html#Rubric
                        http://home.socal.rr.com/exworthy/rubric.htm
                        I have been using rubrics for years in my f2f courses, and I have incorporated them to my online evaluation courses.
                        Daf
                        Don Carroll <dcarroll@...> wrote:Vance,

                        Thanks for the pointers on blogs. I've looked through a lot of
                        this. Questions remaining:

                        1. What's a rubric vs. a blog?
                        --Don






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                      • Don Carroll
                        Dear all, First, I want to apologize for the perhaps excessively negative tone of my post on webcams. Being the technophile I am (how could anyone with 11
                        Message 11 of 30 , Feb 4, 2003
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                          Dear all,

                          First, I want to apologize for the perhaps excessively negative tone of my
                          post on webcams. Being the technophile I am (how could anyone with 11
                          cameras and three computers not be considered a technophile?) I will
                          probably have a webcam too before the year is out. I was just registering
                          in as straight forward a way as possible my own personal response to my
                          first webcam experience -- I certainly don't want to discourage anyone from
                          exploring this technology.

                          I think a lot of one's impression of the usefulness of webcam technology
                          rests on the importance one places on the social dimension to the Webheads
                          experience. While I appreciate the cosy (hugelig?) atmosphere fostered in
                          WIA, for me personally, it is not the key factor in my involvement. I have
                          been just as "personally" involved in other CoP's (for example the LANG-USE
                          and ETHNO list) where "social" communication was discouraged. I guess I'm
                          just more of "just the facts ma'am" sort of guy. I may also be more
                          comfortable with a more confrontational style of interaction (ETHNO was
                          often quite confrontational with a "if you can't take the heat, stay out of
                          the kitchen" tone).

                          As for voice chat, well, I'm totally sold. All that took was 5 minutes
                          talking to my daughter in faraway California! What a wonder it was to sit
                          here with my wife, Linda, and talk (and laugh ) with our teenage daughter
                          on the other side of the Pacific. And for free.

                          I still stick by my assertion that webcam technology is "not yet there" as
                          a tool for CMC and like Michael would be hesitant to use it with students
                          for any learning purpose. However, I can also appreciate Dafne's point of
                          view that webcaming might be an effective psychological/motivational tool
                          for those many students who perhaps still see the computer as an inhuman --
                          and dehumanizing -- machine.

                          --Don
                        • Don Carroll
                          Hi everyone, Can anyone point me to information about creating and using weblogs. I ve already found somethings on the webheads site and played around with
                          Message 12 of 30 , Feb 4, 2003
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                            Hi everyone,

                            Can anyone point me to information about creating and using weblogs. I've
                            already found somethings on the webheads site and played around with
                            Blogger at bit. Can anyone offer any personal experience. I would like to
                            get students doing both an individual blog as well as contributing to a
                            "community blog."

                            --Don
                          • Don Carroll
                            Vance, Thanks for the pointers on blogs. I ve looked through a lot of this. Questions remaining: 1. What s a rubric vs. a blog? 2. Does anyone have
                            Message 13 of 30 , Feb 4, 2003
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                              Vance,

                              Thanks for the pointers on blogs. I've looked through a lot of
                              this. Questions remaining:

                              1. What's a rubric vs. a blog?
                              2. Does anyone have anything negative to say about Blogger.com?
                              3. Does anyone have any preferences among the free blog software mentions
                              in the Campbell article?
                              4. What experiences (good and bad) have you all have with blogs (with
                              students)?

                              All these questions are in preparation for an online "exploratory" course
                              I'll be doing next April.

                              --Don
                            • a.muhren@quicknet.nl
                              Hello everyone, It was certainly a well-spent afternoon and evening for me last Sunday inside and outside TappedIn with plenty of socialising, learning and
                              Message 14 of 30 , Feb 4, 2003
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                                Hello everyone,

                                It was certainly a well-spent afternoon and evening for me last Sunday
                                inside and outside TappedIn with plenty of socialising, learning and what
                                not. BJ showed me the ropes and took me round TappedIn (now) and TappedIn
                                (soon) - all within the 20 minutes or so we had before the crowd came in.

                                It was the spitting image of a physical reception as I have sometimes
                                experienced them in real life. Soon I was gazing in all directions with
                                severe focussing problems - speechless and not a little lost. Much too fast
                                the clauses rolled down the window filling it and then submerging for good.
                                Detach the window, Arnold. Detach it. Did I hear a voice telling me to do
                                this, or did the words surface from the bubbling on-screen soup? I directed
                                my cursor onto to the tiny right hand corner of the window in a by now
                                age-old Windows-trained reflex. It was better for a while but then the
                                clauses rolled down the full screen with what looked like fiendish
                                acceleration. Where is your handle, Arnold? Your Yahoo handle. I looked
                                about me to see whether it was lying perhaps among the usual things on my
                                desk. It was not. Before I could report this, my inquisitor's name had
                                vanished...

                                But I enjoyed the Dickensian merriment of this lively gathering.

                                Apart from Sunday's TappedIn session during which I met so many of you
                                including Vance, I have had email exchanges with Dafne (earlier on), video
                                and text chat and some audio with Maria in Spain, audio and text chat but
                                no video with Aiden, and text chat with Susanne in Denmark in TappedIn. No
                                doubt there will be chances in the near future to get to know others in
                                similar ways. I certainly look forward to these encounters. My induction so
                                far has been fine.

                                Very kind regards, Arnold
                              • Aiden Yeh
                                Don, I haven t used Dreamweaver, but it sounds interesting and worth trying. I might just give it a go one of these days ;-) I ve given up on Pagebuilder ever
                                Message 15 of 30 , Feb 4, 2003
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                                  Don,
                                  I haven't used Dreamweaver, but it sounds interesting and worth trying. I might just give it a go one of these days ;-) I've given up on Pagebuilder ever since I started using Frontpage. I'm also using Publisher 2002 but the files do not upload properly in my file manager (Geocities). I haven't figured out the source of the problem yet. If anyone has tried Publisher, I'd appreciate advice and tips.
                                  Aiden Yeh




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                                • Don Carroll
                                  Dear all -- and especially our hard-working Dafne! ... like our pages to be :-( I don t mean to knock anyone s efforts -- particularly as we are all busy
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Feb 4, 2003
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                                    Dear all -- and especially our hard-working Dafne!

                                    >I still prefer web pages, even though mine are not as savvy as Don would
                                    like our pages to be :-(

                                    I don't mean to knock anyone's efforts -- particularly as we are all busy
                                    teachers and not professional web designers. I also appreciate the webhead
                                    doctrine of trying to work with freeware as much as possible so we can see
                                    and work with the sorts of tools we could actually put into our students'
                                    hands (coupled with the doctrine of using "lowest common denominator"
                                    technology).

                                    But would any one of us seriously consider not using a professional word
                                    processor -- opting instead to do all our writing in Notepad, for
                                    example? I think not. As professionals we expect to use professional
                                    tools, whether this be Word, or PowerPoint, Excel, Apple Works, etc. I'm
                                    just making the same argument for webpage and graphic design software. I
                                    think it's great to know how to use PageBuilder at GeoCities so that we can
                                    show students or even to knock out a quick page for ourselves. But it has
                                    nowhere near the power of something like Dreamweaver or Golive (or even
                                    Frontpage).

                                    As far as web design, well...I just think we can/should aspire to greater,
                                    more graphically and organizationally intuitive webpage designs. The HUGE
                                    advantage of web design software like Dreamweaver is that is allows you to
                                    concentrate on design and leave (most) of the drudge work of coding to the
                                    software.

                                    Case in point -- the use of tables, not as table to contain information,
                                    but as grids for structuring the content and layout of the page, which is
                                    of course what creates the first (and I would say most important)
                                    impression on users. While it is certainly possible to create a simple
                                    columns and rows table using HTML code, I defy any but the most outstanding
                                    HTML code-warrior to create the sort of complex grid layouts (e.g merged
                                    cells of different and specific size, etc.) that can be accomplished with a
                                    few strokes of the mouse in Dreamweaver. This is not something
                                    peripheral. This is absolutely central to good page design. Tables allow
                                    you to precisely control the positioning of elements within the frame,
                                    promotes the attractive use of "white space", etc. Tables are not about
                                    columns of information, they are about design and functionality!

                                    Once again I would suggest that those interested look at (and dissect) the
                                    site that Elizabeth seen allow (Powers of 10). Try "cutting apart" the top
                                    banner and navigation buttons by copying and pasting the bits into a
                                    graphics editor. It is very insightful. And tables is what holds all
                                    these bits seemlessly together. Arlyn said a new world was opened up when
                                    she was shown how to display source code. I think a similar blast of
                                    learning will follow site dissection.

                                    Vance once quoted the old saying "When the student is ready, the teacher
                                    will appear" in reference to learning code. I suggest that the same is
                                    true of web layout software.

                                    --Don

                                    PS. I will continue my experiments with Dreamweaver and once I've got more
                                    than half a page, I'll post what I'm working on for (brutally honest)
                                    comments. ; )

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • dafne Chavez
                                    Dear Aiden, Nice to see you around! Hope things are better for you and your family. Since you mentioned Publisher a while ago, I gave it a try, and created a
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Feb 5, 2003
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                                      Dear Aiden,
                                      Nice to see you around! Hope things are better for you and your family.
                                      Since you mentioned Publisher a while ago, I gave it a try, and created a brochure for an online course I will be soon delivering, and you are right, I had to do some HTML editing to have it had the look I wanted once on the web, especially centering the texts, and eliminating empty spaces. Take a look at it, it is in Spanish, but you can see the layout.
                                      http://www.geocities.com/dygonza/curso-uned/folleto.html
                                      If you show me your page, I might be able to help you out.
                                      Hugs and best wishes,
                                      Daf
                                      Aiden Yeh <aidenyeh@...> wrote:
                                      I'm also using Publisher 2002 but the files do not upload properly in my file manager (Geocities). I haven't figured out the source of the problem yet. If anyone has tried Publisher, I'd appreciate advice and tips.
                                      Aiden Yeh










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                                    • a.muhren@quicknet.nl
                                      Hi everyone, Don s post on the use of editors I find helping and inspiring. I suppose we are all at different positions on this road, and with different goals,
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Feb 5, 2003
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                                        Hi everyone,

                                        Don's post on the use of editors I find helping and inspiring. I suppose we
                                        are all at different positions on this road, and with different goals,
                                        aspirations, needs, destinations, and indeed facilities. Being shown the
                                        various perspectives from where we are currently standing is always good
                                        thing, however.

                                        Like Don, I have been using Dreamweaver for some time now and I love it
                                        though a number of possibilities have remained terra incognito for me until
                                        now. That is the beauty of these applications - you can gradually build up
                                        your repertoire. This is a web site I have been developing in Dreamweaver:
                                        www.educatievestad.nl/ol. It is nothing special but it gave me plenty of
                                        satisfaction to get the menus working and the layout arranged the way it
                                        is. (Part of the site will soon be in English we hope.)

                                        The title of the site 'Ondernemend Leren' means 'Enterprising Education' in
                                        English. Our work involves school projects aimed at stimulating
                                        'enterprising' (read: active, independent, initiative taking, authentic)
                                        behaviour in pupils. If members of the community are interested and would
                                        like to know more just send me an email. I think that the kind of projects
                                        we have been doing would also have a place in the foreign language learning
                                        arena. The 'Scottish storyline approach to education' may ring a bell? This
                                        is often the model we are using for the projects.

                                        One example of a project - highly relevant to TEFL/SL - would be the
                                        creation by students of an online magazine. This sounds like a big thing
                                        but it can be done at several different levels of elaboration. By the way,
                                        now that I have had a taste of syncronous communication tools (I had been
                                        an asyncer thus far) I can clearly see how they could also be integrated
                                        and extend the multimedia character of a student 'magazine'.

                                        Arnold
                                      • Don Carroll <dcarroll@sg-u.ac.jp>
                                        Arnold, Congratulations on a beautiful (and functional site)! The drop-down menus are great and the layout is clean and comfortable -- even for someone who
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Feb 5, 2003
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                                          Arnold,

                                          Congratulations on a beautiful (and functional site)! The drop-down
                                          menus are great and the layout is clean and comfortable -- even for
                                          someone who doesn't read Dutch (but can extrapolate a bit from
                                          German -- "unternemendes lernen").

                                          And what a beautiful goal as well: "stimulating 'enterprising' (read:
                                          active, independent, initiative taking, authentic) behaviour"

                                          --Don

                                          www.educatievestad.nl/ol
                                        • Don Carroll <dcarroll@sg-u.ac.jp>
                                          Arnold, Congratulations on a beautiful (and functional site)! The drop-down menus are great and the layout is clean and comfortable -- even for someone who
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Feb 5, 2003
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                                            Arnold,

                                            Congratulations on a beautiful (and functional site)! The drop-down
                                            menus are great and the layout is clean and comfortable -- even for
                                            someone who doesn't read Dutch (but can extrapolate a bit from
                                            German -- "unternemendes lernen").

                                            And what a beautiful goal as well: "stimulating 'enterprising' (read:
                                            active, independent, initiative taking, authentic) behaviour"

                                            --Don

                                            www.educatievestad.nl/ol
                                          • Don Carroll <dcarroll@sg-u.ac.jp>
                                            Arnold, Congratulations on a beautiful (and functional site)! The drop-down menus are great and the layout is clean and comfortable -- even for someone who
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Feb 5, 2003
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                                              Arnold,

                                              Congratulations on a beautiful (and functional site)! The drop-down
                                              menus are great and the layout is clean and comfortable -- even for
                                              someone who doesn't read Dutch (but can extrapolate a bit from
                                              German -- "unternemendes lernen").

                                              And what a beautiful goal as well: "stimulating 'enterprising' (read:
                                              active, independent, initiative taking, authentic) behaviour"

                                              --Don

                                              www.educatievestad.nl/ol
                                            • CJones <edtec2002@yahoo.com>
                                              Hi, Arnold and all, You ve designed some very attractive pages though I can t read German! I just want to add that I started using Dreamweaver 4.0 while taking
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Feb 5, 2003
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                                                Hi, Arnold and all,

                                                You've designed some very attractive pages though I can't read German!

                                                I just want to add that I started using Dreamweaver 4.0 while taking
                                                a course in making a web site. It is still my preferred editor. I
                                                especially like the fact that I can go into the coding and change
                                                things I don't like, especially unnecessary spaces. Dreamweaver MX
                                                is probably better, but it's expensive to upgrade. I use it at
                                                home. On my work computer, I use FrontPage 2000, which you can also
                                                go into and change the code if necessary. I've had pretty good
                                                success in using both editors on the same pages. That is to say that
                                                I edit a page at home in Dreamweaver and later make changes in it in
                                                FrontPage.

                                                I did the summary pages for week 2 in Dreamweaver, and they were
                                                pretty easy to put together. (The time-consuming part was getting
                                                the messages into the appropriate thread of the discussion.)

                                                Chris Jones

                                                --- In evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com, a.muhren@q... wrote:
                                                > Like Don, I have been using Dreamweaver for some time now and I
                                                love it
                                                > though a number of possibilities have remained terra incognito for
                                                me until
                                                > now. That is the beauty of these applications - you can gradually
                                                build up
                                                > your repertoire. This is a web site I have been developing in
                                                Dreamweaver:
                                                > www.educatievestad.nl/ol.
                                              • dafne Chavez
                                                Hi All, I wonder if any of you have double-clicked on the picture on Arnold s page. Great Arnold! I checked the English version. I love the activities.
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Feb 5, 2003
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                                                  Hi All,
                                                  I wonder if any of you have double-clicked on the picture on Arnold's page. Great Arnold! I checked the English version. I love the activities.
                                                  http://www.educatievestad.nl/ol/
                                                  Looking forward to chatting with you,
                                                  Daf
                                                  "CJones <edtec2002@...>" <edtec2002@...> wrote:Hi, Arnold and all,

                                                  You've designed some very attractive pages though I can't read German!




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                                                • a.muhren@quicknet.nl
                                                  Dear friends, I arrive home, kick off my shoes, have a drink, have a bite, switch my computer on - and within a minute or two I am such a proud monkey. Teresa,
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Feb 5, 2003
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                                                    Dear friends,

                                                    I arrive home, kick off my shoes, have a drink, have a bite, switch my
                                                    computer on - and within a minute or two I am such a proud monkey.

                                                    Teresa, Don, Daf, Chris - thank you for looking at the
                                                    www.educatievestad.nl/ol site. I really appreciate the friendly and
                                                    positive comments in your messages.

                                                    One word of warning though: the picture of the town links to the
                                                    organisation's portal site (www.educatievestad.nl) which is NOT of my own
                                                    making. That one would have been way beyond my present expertise, but -
                                                    more importantly - I would not have designed a site like that at all. Let
                                                    me explain this. This portal site is a Flash site i.e. it is made with
                                                    Macromedia Flash, nearly all of it. Yes, I can understand that you may be
                                                    impressed at first sight, but really if you have a closer look you may well
                                                    modify your initial impressions.

                                                    The ol-subsite has actually been my statement about the portal site. With
                                                    it I have wanted to stress a number of important design elements that are
                                                    quite insufficient or even absent in the portal site which Teresa feels
                                                    intuitively also suffers from (visual) overkill at the expense of
                                                    straightforward information.

                                                    Of course the window opening up on the town is a fine metaphor but did it
                                                    need to be sustained all through the site? I think not. This was a sure way
                                                    to kill the freshness of the image and turn it into a visual burden on the
                                                    site. There are more problems and you will find them no doubt.

                                                    Time consuming, Teresa? The guys who made this Flash-movie needed a lot of
                                                    time - I can tell you that.

                                                    Arnold

                                                    P.S. I see other more useful applications for Flash but that is another story.












                                                    At 09:06 5-2-2003 -0800, you wrote:

                                                    >Hi All,
                                                    >I wonder if any of you have double-clicked on the picture on Arnold's
                                                    >page. Great Arnold! I checked the English version. I love the activities.
                                                    ><http://www.educatievestad.nl/ol/>http://www.educatievestad.nl/ol/
                                                    >Looking forward to chatting with you,
                                                    >Daf
                                                    >"CJones <edtec2002@...>" <edtec2002@...> wrote:Hi, Arnold and all,
                                                    >
                                                    >You've designed some very attractive pages though I can't read German!
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
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                                                  • Arlyn Freed
                                                    Thanks for the heads-up, Dafne -- I totally missed clicking on the photo (and thus the entire flash site!). Arnold, that s amazing. I should tell you though,
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Feb 5, 2003
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                                                      Thanks for the heads-up, Dafne -- I totally missed
                                                      clicking on the photo (and thus the entire flash
                                                      site!).

                                                      Arnold, that's amazing.
                                                      I should tell you though, on the entry page (before
                                                      entering the Flash site) all of the hyperlinked
                                                      buttons have "blinking" text, including the text on
                                                      the drop-down menus. This may only appear in Netscape
                                                      (I was using Netscape 7)-- and I wasn't able to find
                                                      the "blink" command anywhere in your source code...
                                                      but it was definitely making me crazy :) Next time
                                                      I'll use IE!
                                                      Congrats on a wonderful site,
                                                      Arlyn


                                                      From: dafne Chavez <dygonza@...>
                                                      Subject: Re: Re: Webpage design -- beyond the basics
                                                      Hi All,
                                                      I wonder if any of you have double-clicked on the
                                                      picture on Arnold's
                                                      page. Great Arnold! I checked the English version. I
                                                      love the
                                                      activities.
                                                      http://www.educatievestad.nl/ol/
                                                      Looking forward to chatting with you,
                                                      Daf

                                                      =====
                                                      Your new home for ESL...http://www.eslhome.com

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                                                    • Vance Stevens
                                                      ... ... I put a mention of your site in your listing on our community page. On the topic of online magazines, have you been following the onlinemag
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Feb 5, 2003
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                                                        a.muhren@... wrote:

                                                        > The title of the site 'Ondernemend Leren' means 'Enterprising Education' in
                                                        > English. Our work involves school projects aimed at stimulating
                                                        > 'enterprising' (read: active, independent, initiative taking, authentic)
                                                        > behaviour in pupils.

                                                        <snip>

                                                        > One example of a project - highly relevant to TEFL/SL - would be the
                                                        > creation by students of an online magazine. This sounds like a big thing
                                                        > but it can be done at several different levels of elaboration.

                                                        I put a mention of your site in your listing on our community page.

                                                        On the topic of online magazines, have you been following the onlinemag group EVOnline session? You might check
                                                        it out:

                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/onlinemag

                                                        Vance
                                                      • Vance Stevens
                                                        Thanks Susanne for all your efforts. I m planning to move the screen shots over to the files area if that s ok with you, in the same place I put the screen
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Feb 6, 2003
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                                                          Thanks Susanne for all your efforts.

                                                          I'm planning to move the screen shots over to the files area if that's ok with you, in the same place I put the screen dumps I placed there. When I've done that, I'll make links to all those files from our chat logs.

                                                          I'm starting to work on our chat logs. I used to maintain these regularly but lately have been snowed under with other tasks taking greater priority. I know that many of your have enjoyed being able to find our logs online, and I'm trying to update them now, starting with Sus's comments below.

                                                          You can check progress here:
                                                          http://sites.hsprofessional.com/vstevens/files/efi/chatlogs.htm

                                                          Vance

                                                          "susannenyrop " wrote:

                                                          > Hi all,
                                                          >
                                                          > as I made a good deal of screen dumps (or images) from our
                                                          > webcam practice today, I have uploaded four or five of them in
                                                          > our Photos folder. They're not very small, about 200 kb each I
                                                          > think - but if I make a lower quality tha demands less disk space
                                                          > and download time, it is not easy to see who's who any longer.
                                                          >
                                                          > We started in Tapped In as usual but moved to yahoo
                                                          > Messenger because a lot of webcams were at hand. I have one
                                                          > picture with nine cams up! Many of you seemed to have great fun
                                                          > with voice -

                                                          etc etc, posted on our web pages,
                                                          V
                                                        • a.muhren@quicknet.nl
                                                          ... Thank you very much for mentioning this, Arlyn. I don t know how this can happen. It is definitely not intended. I do not like blinking at all - unless it
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Feb 6, 2003
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                                                            Arlyn wrote:

                                                            >I should tell you though, on the entry page (before
                                                            >entering the Flash site) all of the hyperlinked
                                                            >buttons have "blinking" text, including the text on
                                                            >the drop-down menus. This may only appear in Netscape
                                                            >(I was using Netscape 7)-- and I wasn't able to find
                                                            >the "blink" command anywhere in your source code...
                                                            >but it was definitely making me crazy :) Next time
                                                            >I'll use IE!


                                                            Thank you very much for mentioning this, Arlyn. I don't know how this can
                                                            happen. It is definitely not intended. I do not like blinking at all -
                                                            unless it is on a virtual ambulance :-). You Netscape version is rendering
                                                            'blinking' for inserted code - that's for sure but which code? I don't know
                                                            - will look into this.

                                                            Anybody to shed light light on this mystery - Netscape experts among us?

                                                            Arnold









                                                            >Congrats on a wonderful site,
                                                            >Arlyn
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > From: dafne Chavez <dygonza@...>
                                                            >Subject: Re: Re: Webpage design -- beyond the basics
                                                            >Hi All,
                                                            >I wonder if any of you have double-clicked on the
                                                            >picture on Arnold's
                                                            >page. Great Arnold! I checked the English version. I
                                                            >love the
                                                            >activities.
                                                            ><http://www.educatievestad.nl/ol/>http://www.educatievestad.nl/ol/
                                                            >Looking forward to chatting with you,
                                                            >Daf
                                                            >
                                                            >=====
                                                            >Your new home for ESL...<http://www.eslhome.com>http://www.eslhome.com
                                                            >
                                                            >__________________________________________________
                                                            >Do you Yahoo!?
                                                            >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
                                                            ><http://mailplus.yahoo.com>http://mailplus.yahoo.com
                                                            >
                                                            >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                            >evonline2002_webheads-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                            >
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                                                            ><http://www.geocities.com/vance_stevens/papers/evonline2002/webheads.htm>http://www.geocities.com/vance_stevens/papers/evonline2002/webheads.htm
                                                            >
                                                            >When replying to postings, please delete this footer and any other
                                                            >extraneous text from the reply - Thanks!!
                                                            >
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                                                            ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                          • a.muhren@quicknet.nl
                                                            On the topic of online magazines, have you been following the onlinemag group EVOnline session? You might check it out:
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Feb 6, 2003
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                                                              "On the topic of online magazines, have you been following the onlinemag
                                                              group EVOnline session? You might check it out:
                                                              <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/onlinemag>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/onlinemag>onlinemag"

                                                              No, I haven't yet, Vance. I did notice the group earlier on but I lost
                                                              track of it. I will have a look now - this comes in handy. Thanks
                                                              Arnold
                                                            • a.muhren@quicknet.nl
                                                              ... Eureka! Got it - just look at this set from my cascading style sheet which provides part of the formatting for the pages: font-family: Arial, Helvetica,
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Feb 6, 2003
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                                                                I wrote to Arlyn:

                                                                >Thank you very much for mentioning this, Arlyn. I don't know how this can
                                                                >happen. It is definitely not intended. I do not like blinking at all -
                                                                >unless it is on a virtual ambulance :-). You Netscape version is rendering
                                                                >'blinking' for inserted code - that's for sure but which code? I don't know
                                                                >- will look into this.


                                                                Eureka! Got it - just look at this set from my cascading style sheet which
                                                                provides part of the formatting for the pages:

                                                                font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
                                                                font-size: 12px;
                                                                background-color: #6699CC;
                                                                color: #FFFFCC;
                                                                height: 20px;
                                                                width: 130px;
                                                                font-variant: normal;
                                                                font-weight: normal;
                                                                padding: 10px;
                                                                margin: auto;
                                                                float: none;
                                                                clear: none;
                                                                border: 1px none;
                                                                text-decoration: blink;

                                                                The last item is the culprit - I have thrown this little devil right out of
                                                                the style sheet! I really don't remember putting it in there, not
                                                                consciously - but maybe I played around with coding at the time and did
                                                                notice this line had lodged there as well.

                                                                You did not see this code, Arlyn, when you were looking because these bits
                                                                of code are inside a linked style sheet whose contents are not displayed in
                                                                the page's main source code.

                                                                Thank you again. Can you please have another look from Netscape 7 and mail
                                                                me what you see.

                                                                I now realise once more why the experts always insist on checking pages in
                                                                different browsers / browser versions...

                                                                Arnold
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