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Re: [evonline2002_webheads] Fwd: [gisig] Seeing No Progress, Some Schools Drop Laptops

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  • Barbara Dieu
    It does not have to be a laptop. Just because you give someone a pencil, it doesn t mean he will write verses, become an artist or write at all. The students
    Message 1 of 12 , May 6, 2007
      It does not have to be a laptop. Just because you give someone a
      pencil, it doesn't mean he will write verses, become an artist or
      write at all.

      "The students at Liverpool High have used their school-issued laptops
      to exchange answers on tests, download pornography and hack into local
      businesses. When the school tightenedits network security, a 10th
      grader not only found a way around it but also posted step-by-step
      instructions on the Web for others to follow(which they did)."

      Typical. Examples of survival, fun, risk taking, collaboration ...
      which could be channeled in a different way.

      As Gavin says, I also smell an agenda too (several I would say)
      BTW have you heard this interview with Tim O' Reilly? (Web 2.0). How
      do you react to this?

      http://www.stevehargadon.com/2007/05/tim-oreilly-on-web-20-and-education.html

      Warm regards from Brazil,
      Bee
      --
      Barbara Dieu
      http://dekita.org
      http://beewebhead.net
    • Dennis Newson
      Gavin, Yes. I smell a rat, too. And let s not overlook that at least some of the kids were rather clever - they found pornography, they hacked local businesses
      Message 2 of 12 , May 6, 2007
        Gavin,

        Yes. I smell a rat, too. And let's not overlook that at least some of the
        kids were rather clever - they found pornography, they hacked local
        businesses and there was a socially collaborative teaching/learning act,
        amongst the kids, when one of them passed on knowledge he'd gained of how to
        beat the system. It sounds as if the kids' computer skills might have been
        OK, but the authorities didn't like the use to which those skills were put.

        Dennis


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Graham Stanley
        Cristina, Did you ever hear the one about the lengthy and $$$$ project investigating the use of chat and language learning that was cancelled in its first week
        Message 3 of 12 , May 6, 2007
          Cristina,

          Did you ever hear the one about the lengthy and $$$$ project investigating
          the use of chat and language learning that was cancelled in its first week
          because one teenage student said something offensive to one other teenage
          student during one chat?

          The teacher involved in moderating the chat didn't get the chance to talk to
          the student about his misconduct before the plug was pulled on the project
          by the same management that had commisioned it. No excuses, no listening to
          reason, just a 'we can't afford to have a student in X country say that to a
          student in Y country'.

          As far as the laptops are concerned, I totally agree with Gavin - training
          is the key. Some time ago I asked an ICT manager of an academy that had just
          started to invest in Interactive White Boards what training his institution
          gave to teachers. I was interested because we were evaluating the amount and
          frequency of ourt IWB training, moving away from intensive 20 hour training
          courses towards a more measured, training-practice-training approach.

          'Training?', came the reply, 'they just get handed the pen and are told to
          get on with it.' - my guess is that if this continues, the negativity and
          frustration from teachers will lead to the, being ripped out of the
          classrooms within a few months.

          I'm also reminded of another laptop project that failed in its first week
          because it was managed badly and the infrastructure was not ready when the
          laptops were rushed into use. The teachers who gladly volunteered to use
          them ended up being unwelcome guniea pigs for the system. They went through
          a period when they all failed because of power problems, connectivity, etc.
          - this was solved, but because the teachers had had such a negative
          experience early on, nobody volunteered to use them even though they were
          working well, and so the system was finally scrapped due to lack of use.

          Everyone knows that in the right hands, most tools can work wonders. But the
          person using the tool has to be given sufficient training first.

          Graham

          Graham Stanley
          http://blog-efl.blogspot.com


          On 5/6/07, cristina costa <cristinacosta_pt@...> wrote:
          >
          > Great point Michael.
          >
          > I have often experienced that it is easier to take things away than making
          > students, or whoever, responsible for their actions...
          >


          T








          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Monica Wiesmann-Hirchert
          Greetings to all! This discussion on lack of appropriate training reminds me of the many times I was sent to different sites (throughout the US southeast) to
          Message 4 of 12 , May 7, 2007
            Greetings to all!



            This discussion on lack of appropriate training reminds me of the many times
            I was sent to different sites (throughout the US southeast) to conduct
            training. I worked for a private software distributor then and quite often
            was sent to schools that had had the software for several years but never
            had training. Needless to say, the software was installed but unused for a
            very long time. The schools had spent loads of money on the software but
            didn't want to invest in training. Once a school district spent over 100,000
            in software but never bothered to check if the system was compatible.It's
            disturbing to say the least!



            Monica Wiesmann-Hirchert

            Ankara, Turkey





            _____

            From: evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Graham Stanley
            Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 12:10 AM
            To: evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [evonline2002_webheads] Seeing No Progress, Some Schools Drop
            Laptops



            Cristina,

            Did you ever hear the one about the lengthy and $$$$ project investigating
            the use of chat and language learning that was cancelled in its first week
            because one teenage student said something offensive to one other teenage
            student during one chat?

            The teacher involved in moderating the chat didn't get the chance to talk to
            the student about his misconduct before the plug was pulled on the project
            by the same management that had commisioned it. No excuses, no listening to
            reason, just a 'we can't afford to have a student in X country say that to a
            student in Y country'.

            As far as the laptops are concerned, I totally agree with Gavin - training
            is the key. Some time ago I asked an ICT manager of an academy that had just
            started to invest in Interactive White Boards what training his institution
            gave to teachers. I was interested because we were evaluating the amount and
            frequency of ourt IWB training, moving away from intensive 20 hour training
            courses towards a more measured, training-practice-training approach.

            'Training?', came the reply, 'they just get handed the pen and are told to
            get on with it.' - my guess is that if this continues, the negativity and
            frustration from teachers will lead to the, being ripped out of the
            classrooms within a few months.

            I'm also reminded of another laptop project that failed in its first week
            because it was managed badly and the infrastructure was not ready when the
            laptops were rushed into use. The teachers who gladly volunteered to use
            them ended up being unwelcome guniea pigs for the system. They went through
            a period when they all failed because of power problems, connectivity, etc.
            - this was solved, but because the teachers had had such a negative
            experience early on, nobody volunteered to use them even though they were
            working well, and so the system was finally scrapped due to lack of use.

            Everyone knows that in the right hands, most tools can work wonders. But the
            person using the tool has to be given sufficient training first.

            Graham

            Graham Stanley
            http://blog- <http://blog-efl.blogspot.com> efl.blogspot.com

            On 5/6/07, cristina costa <cristinacosta_
            <mailto:cristinacosta_pt%40yahoo.com> pt@...> wrote:
            >
            > Great point Michael.
            >
            > I have often experienced that it is easier to take things away than making
            > students, or whoever, responsible for their actions...
            >

            T

            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Janet Keyser
            Discouraging but not impossible to improve. Districts often get on a bandwagon without consulting specialists or careful planning. A. Training of the teachers
            Message 5 of 12 , May 7, 2007
              Discouraging but not impossible to improve. Districts often get on a bandwagon without consulting specialists or careful planning.

              A. Training of the teachers is not taking place. You can't expect a program as ambitious and full of pitfalls to work properly when some of the teachers are afraid of, or others don't like or know much about the great uses of, technology. Teachers are the most important element in the classroom, but they have to know close to as much as the students, obviously about electronic learning.

              B. Students need to have some values hammered into them and actually care about education. There are students who want an education; they should get the laptops.

              C. I'm not sure the laptops belong in the classroom. Here in Mexico, at the Tecnológico de Monterrey, my students don't use their laptops in class more than 2 days a semester, when I encourage them to write together on projects. Our course is supported by BlackBoard; it's a giant, very complete syllabus, complete with documents, forums, and links to all kinds of amazing website that they use to practice English outside of the classroom. The goal is to use the classroom for ftf interactions and practice of language skills with teacher's guidance; outside of the classroom my students are using the Internet to become autonomous learners so that they can continue to practice without me and the class.

              Janet


              ---------------------------------
              Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
              Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • vcautin
              not really sure that teachers are the most important element in the classroom... ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 12 , May 7, 2007
                not really sure that teachers are the most important element in the
                classroom...

                On 5/7/07, Janet Keyser <xochimilcojanet@...> wrote:
                >
                > Discouraging but not impossible to improve. Districts often get on a
                > bandwagon without consulting specialists or careful planning.
                >
                > A. Training of the teachers is not taking place. You can't expect a
                > program as ambitious and full of pitfalls to work properly when some of the
                > teachers are afraid of, or others don't like or know much about the great
                > uses of, technology. Teachers are the most important element in the
                > classroom, but they have to know close to as much as the students, obviously
                > about electronic learning.
                >
                > B. Students need to have some values hammered into them and actually care
                > about education. There are students who want an education; they should get
                > the laptops.
                >
                > C. I'm not sure the laptops belong in the classroom. Here in Mexico, at
                > the Tecnológico de Monterrey, my students don't use their laptops in class
                > more than 2 days a semester, when I encourage them to write together on
                > projects. Our course is supported by BlackBoard; it's a giant, very complete
                > syllabus, complete with documents, forums, and links to all kinds of amazing
                > website that they use to practice English outside of the classroom. The goal
                > is to use the classroom for ftf interactions and practice of language skills
                > with teacher's guidance; outside of the classroom my students are using the
                > Internet to become autonomous learners so that they can continue to practice
                > without me and the class.
                >
                > Janet
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Janet Keyser
                Of course...I mispoke...the students are, by far, along with their relationship to the new learning! Thanks for calling me on that. vcautin
                Message 7 of 12 , May 7, 2007
                  Of course...I mispoke...the students are, by far, along with their relationship to the new learning! Thanks for calling me on that.

                  vcautin <violeta.cautin@...> wrote: not really sure that teachers are the most important element in the
                  classroom...

                  On 5/7/07, Janet Keyser <xochimilcojanet@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Discouraging but not impossible to improve. Districts often get on a
                  > bandwagon without consulting specialists or careful planning.
                  >
                  > A. Training of the teachers is not taking place. You can't expect a
                  > program as ambitious and full of pitfalls to work properly when some of the
                  > teachers are afraid of, or others don't like or know much about the great
                  > uses of, technology. Teachers are the most important element in the
                  > classroom, but they have to know close to as much as the students, obviously
                  > about electronic learning.
                  >
                  > B. Students need to have some values hammered into them and actually care
                  > about education. There are students who want an education; they should get
                  > the laptops.
                  >
                  > C. I'm not sure the laptops belong in the classroom. Here in Mexico, at
                  > the Tecnológico de Monterrey, my students don't use their laptops in class
                  > more than 2 days a semester, when I encourage them to write together on
                  > projects. Our course is supported by BlackBoard; it's a giant, very complete
                  > syllabus, complete with documents, forums, and links to all kinds of amazing
                  > website that they use to practice English outside of the classroom. The goal
                  > is to use the classroom for ftf interactions and practice of language skills
                  > with teacher's guidance; outside of the classroom my students are using the
                  > Internet to become autonomous learners so that they can continue to practice
                  > without me and the class.
                  >
                  > Janet
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                  > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                  ---------------------------------
                  Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                  Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • vcautin
                  Regarding training, I think that if we, webheads, have our spirit up and are open to share our knowledge, other teachers will come to you asking for your help
                  Message 8 of 12 , May 7, 2007
                    Regarding training, I think that if we, webheads, have our spirit up and are
                    open to share our knowledge, other teachers will come to you asking for your
                    help and mentoring.
                    I have seen both ends, thou. Friends have asked me to show them how to sign
                    up for a blog... but...

                    Some time ago I was really happy that I "discovered" that projecting my
                    laptop on the board, I could create a "virtual board" in which I was able to
                    write and then save everything. My students weren´t pressured to copy, and
                    were actually more willing to pay attention to what I was saying, knowing I
                    was going to send them the file later!!!! (That was like discovering the
                    wheel, because yesterday I found out that there are boards on which you
                    could write and it is all stored in the laptop.Magic!)
                    Anyway, I was really really happy and tried to share my I-thought-to-be
                    discovery with my best friend. When I showed her the laptop projected, she
                    said, so???? You can do that with a marker as well and you do not have to
                    carry all that stuff with you. Who's gonna pay for your back?--

                    Well, I still think it's really nice being able to write and send the class
                    to your students. They are all listening to you, taking notes of their
                    thoughts, not copying every word they see on screen.
                    How has your experience been regarding this???

                    And how have you handled the fact that you have to carry a laptop plus a
                    projector around the campus????


                    Another topic:

                    Have you tried using slide.com for roleplays? I'm sure I discovered that
                    one!!!!

                    Well, handing laptops to kids without training is not the way, but it was a
                    step forward.... removing them.... I'm not a psychologist, but I'm pretty
                    sure the impression people have is that technology is the one to blame here,
                    not the people in charge of the project or the ones that didn't forsee this
                    events happening.


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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