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Re: Elgg and Blackboard

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  • Elizabeth Hanson-Smith
    Hi Bee-- I m answering as a philosophical question, not a pedagogical one: I think safety and security has been a major concern for schools, and that s why
    Message 1 of 9 , May 2 1:59 PM
      Hi Bee--
      I'm answering as a philosophical question, not a pedagogical one:

      I think safety and security has been a major concern for schools, and
      that's why CMSs have been trying to incorporate blogs and wikis and
      other social Web apps into their own space.

      For commercial language schools it may also be a way to keep
      everything in-house. Once people start finding out about all the free
      stuff out there, more and more are heading into Cyberland. A number of
      US schools, for instance are moving from WebCT/Blackboard to free Moodle.

      My 2¢

      Cheers--
      --Elizabeth

      --- In evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com, "Barbara Dieu"
      <beeonline@...> wrote:
      >
      > Why would anyone want to use Elgg within Blackboard or vice-versa, I
      > wonder. Can anyone give me this answer?
      > Warm regards from Brazil,
      > Bee
      >
      > Barbara Dieu
      > http://dekita.org
      > http://beewebhead.net
      >
    • Barbara Dieu
      ... Thank you, Elizabeth for your prompt answer. I understand the security issues and wanting to keep order . However, Elgg has always offered quite a number
      Message 2 of 9 , May 2 7:56 PM
        > I think safety and security has been a major concern for schools, and
        > that's why CMSs have been trying to incorporate blogs and wikis and
        > other social Web apps into their own space.

        Thank you, Elizabeth for your prompt answer. I understand the security
        issues and wanting to keep order . However, Elgg has always offered
        quite a number of security options (levels of privacy of documents and
        posts) and so have many blogs (Wordpress allows several levels as
        well) Wikis that you install on your server or pay for can be used
        with a password and only viewed by the group working in it.

        I suppose Blackboard (and Moodle) is needed because it is difficult
        to let go the control. This is still strong in some institutions and
        this is how some evaluate participation - who logged, how many times,
        how long they stayed (which does not measure quality...like being in a
        classroom at school or paying for a course does not mean you are
        connected or learning ...sometimes quite the opposite). Oh well...

        Warm regards from Brazil,
        Bee

        --
        Barbara Dieu
        http://dekita.org
        http://beewebhead.net
      • Elizabeth Hanson-Smith
        Bee-- By security, teachers/administrators in schools mean staying at the one site. Just recently I read that an educator faced a possible long prison term
        Message 3 of 9 , May 3 5:53 PM
          Bee--
          By security, teachers/administrators in schools mean staying at the
          one site. Just recently I read that an educator faced a possible long
          prison term because students managed to get onto a pornography site
          while she was out of the room!
          I think school districts (K-12) feel safer if they can lock out most
          of the Web. So Blackboard can be run on an internal server and the
          kiddies never leave it. This is a real shame, but with freedom comes
          risks.
          Cheers--
          --Elizabeth

          --- In evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com, "Barbara Dieu"
          <beeonline@...> wrote:
          >
          > > I think safety and security has been a major concern for schools, and
          > > that's why CMSs have been trying to incorporate blogs and wikis and
          > > other social Web apps into their own space.
          >
          > Thank you, Elizabeth for your prompt answer. I understand the security
          > issues and wanting to keep order . However, Elgg has always offered
          > quite a number of security options (levels of privacy of documents and
          > posts) and so have many blogs (Wordpress allows several levels as
          > well) Wikis that you install on your server or pay for can be used
          > with a password and only viewed by the group working in it.
          >
          > I suppose Blackboard (and Moodle) is needed because it is difficult
          > to let go the control. This is still strong in some institutions and
          > this is how some evaluate participation - who logged, how many times,
          > how long they stayed (which does not measure quality...like being in a
          > classroom at school or paying for a course does not mean you are
          > connected or learning ...sometimes quite the opposite). Oh well...
          >
          > Warm regards from Brazil,
          > Bee
          >
          > --
          > Barbara Dieu
          > http://dekita.org
          > http://beewebhead.net
          >
        • Barbara Dieu
          ... It is so much easier to accept it all and compromise, isn´t it? So much easier to think you are safe and not think of what may happen to you. But then
          Message 4 of 9 , May 3 6:25 PM
            > I think school districts (K-12) feel safer if they can lock out most
            > of the Web. So Blackboard can be run on an internal server and the
            > kiddies never leave it. This is a real shame, but with freedom comes
            > risks.

            It is so much easier to accept it all and compromise, isn´t it? So
            much easier to think you are "safe" and not think of what may happen
            to you. But then the price you pay is to be locked in and have it
            happening to you anyway (and the shock is terrible because you thought
            you were protected)
            Education is also learning how to face risks to be able to enjoy freedom :-)

            "Freedom is not merely the opportunity to do as one pleases; neither
            is it merely the opportunity to choose between set alternatives.
            Freedom is, first of all, the chance to formulate the available
            choices, to argue over them -- and then, the opportunity to choose."
            C. Wright Mills

            This discussion (and many others) could go on for hours over some nice
            glasses of wine. We must do this next time we meet :-)
            Warm regards from Brazil,
            Bee


            --
            Barbara Dieu
            http://dekita.org
            http://beewebhead.net
          • Vance Stevens
            I was listening to one of Wesley Fryer s recent podcasts while out jogging last night and he had some interesting analogies regarding net freedom vs lockdown
            Message 5 of 9 , May 3 9:20 PM
              I was listening to one of Wesley Fryer's recent podcasts while out jogging
              last night and he had some interesting analogies regarding net freedom vs
              lockdown of Internet. He said he used to work at Texas Tech which had no
              sex education program plus one of the largest instances of STD and unwanted
              pregnancies in the nation, point being it's probably best to discuss these
              things openly within a community. He asked the audience who had a pencil on
              them and what could you do with that pencil (topic being net bullying at
              that point) and he noted Sheryl Nussbaum-Beach's analogy of running with
              scissors. You don't block scissors from your classroom, you make sure
              people know how to regulate their use of them. There are famous cases in
              the US of teachers being prosecuted for accidentally flashing porn in class,
              the judicial system assuming that any such instance is purposeful and
              perverse. As a result, one school Wesley knew of had blocked even Google.
              What kind of education are students getting there, one wonders? Answer,
              they use MySpace at home obviously, far from the mediating influence of the
              so called 'education' system. There are numerous discussions of these and
              many such issues on the Worldbridges network. Jeff Lebow mentioned on a
              recent EdTechWeekly (his turn) that DOPA had at least been voted down in
              Congress. One glimmer of light in an otherwise bleak horizon.

              I think moving this discussion to the Weinstubben is an excellent idea ...

              V

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Barbara Dieu" <beeonline@...>
              To: <evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 6:25 PM
              Subject: Re: [evonline2002_webheads] Re: Elgg and Blackboard


              > I think school districts (K-12) feel safer if they can lock out most
              > of the Web. So Blackboard can be run on an internal server and the
              > kiddies never leave it. This is a real shame, but with freedom comes
              > risks.

              It is so much easier to accept it all and compromise, isn´t it? So
              much easier to think you are "safe" and not think of what may happen
              to you. But then the price you pay is to be locked in and have it
              happening to you anyway (and the shock is terrible because you thought
              you were protected)
              Education is also learning how to face risks to be able to enjoy freedom :-)

              "Freedom is not merely the opportunity to do as one pleases; neither
              is it merely the opportunity to choose between set alternatives.
              Freedom is, first of all, the chance to formulate the available
              choices, to argue over them -- and then, the opportunity to choose."
              C. Wright Mills

              This discussion (and many others) could go on for hours over some nice
              glasses of wine. We must do this next time we meet :-)
              Warm regards from Brazil,
              Bee


              --
              Barbara Dieu
              http://dekita.org
              http://beewebhead.net


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            • cristina costa
              I couldn t agree more with you Bee. That’s exactly the feeling many educators are conveying here. Fear to lose “their control”, but like Vance also
              Message 6 of 9 , May 4 1:27 AM
                I couldn't agree more with you Bee.
                That’s exactly the feeling many educators are conveying here. Fear to lose “their control”, but like Vance also points out haven’t they already? Our kids are using technology at home, in cybercafés, at their friends’, or any place they can have access to a connection. We cannot also forget that we are going mobile here. And they are using all those tool freely available on the WWW with proficiency. The greatest challenge for the educators now is not to prevent the students from using it, but to give then the educational perspective, by making them experience the web with an educational touch. We have to accept the fact: technology is here and it came to stay. It is part of our lives. Make the best of it.
                I can give you a practical example:
                Yesterday, after talking to Ramona about her kids – I am still amazingly delighted at Maria and her little friends for creating their own blogs out of their own willing – I got to know that they are all now in this MUVE (check this article: http://tinyurl.com/2vh3ng ) called ClubPenguin and I decided to have a look at it.
                I had to sign up for it. Kids under 13 need parental approval. I could sign up on my own, but somehow it didn’t please me that much. I ex-lain why: The site seems to be very well structured and with nice guidelines. They warn the kids not to use unappropiate language to make friends, to go around and find out of is there for them, etc.
                What I didn’t really appreciate that much was the fact that they had subscriptions categorized by the following ages: 8-under (with an image of a penguin happily swinging); 9-12 (the penguin is sitting on a buoy); 13-17 (the penguin is cheerfully skating) and Really old. Really old????????! – That is the next category (the penguin is already using a walking stick and looking very tired). And guess what? That is the category I belong to! Scary, ha! I thought I was still young.
                And so I wondered, am I just really old to get into ClubPenguin or am I getting old to start my way into using this kind of tools?
                Once again, I can only conclude that we cannot overlook this reality and try to confine our learners (they are not students anymore – they are essentially learners growing more independent each other minute they spend online). We have to play the game. We have to mingle and fit in in their reality while guiding them in their learning.

                And today I really feel I need to evoke a Portuguese – very wise – saying. It is never late to learn.
                There is still hope!
                :-)
                Cris

                Barbara Dieu <beeonline@...> escreveu: > I think school districts (K-12) feel safer if they can lock out most
                > of the Web. So Blackboard can be run on an internal server and the
                > kiddies never leave it. This is a real shame, but with freedom comes
                > risks.

                It is so much easier to accept it all and compromise, isn´t it? So
                much easier to think you are "safe" and not think of what may happen
                to you. But then the price you pay is to be locked in and have it
                happening to you anyway (and the shock is terrible because you thought
                you were protected)
                Education is also learning how to face risks to be able to enjoy freedom :-)

                "Freedom is not merely the opportunity to do as one pleases; neither
                is it merely the opportunity to choose between set alternatives.
                Freedom is, first of all, the chance to formulate the available
                choices, to argue over them -- and then, the opportunity to choose."
                C. Wright Mills

                This discussion (and many others) could go on for hours over some nice
                glasses of wine. We must do this next time we meet :-)
                Warm regards from Brazil,
                Bee









                Cris


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