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Re: website integrity: what are our rights?

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  • eaglerrf
    I feel if you created (not finding) the listening web site than you have an issue. If it is located on the web, then isn t it free for all of us to use?
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 19, 2002
      I feel if you created (not finding) the listening web site than you
      have an issue. If it is located on the web, then isn't it free for all
      of us to use?
    • aiden yeh
      Arlyn, You could try to write directly to the person involved and express to him/her politely what you actually feel, and ask him/her to give credit where
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 19, 2002
        Arlyn,
        You could try to write directly to the person involved and express to him/her politely what you actually feel, and ask him/her to give credit where credit is due.
        goodluck,
        aiden
        Arlyn Freed wrote:Hi everyone,

        I have a question regarding the intellectual
        copyrights of web material. As many of us in this
        community know, the ideal web world is one of shared
        information (cost free). Most of us participate to
        keep this ideal alive.

        At the same time, can we expect to receive credit for
        our labor?

        I ask this question because I just discovered a
        website that has copied and pasted some of my text and
        links verbatim (including font type and color!).
        While the page (elsewhere) also refers people to my
        site as a possible resource, the author has also taken
        most of the key information from my site and placed it
        on his own, without crediting me for the original
        research. (While a few of these links are well known,
        the majority of them are not and were discovered after
        long nights of web surfing).

        If this site were a student paper it would be declared
        a case of plagiarism. But as a website by a fellow
        teacher (and in keeping with the "good faith" motto of
        internet education) do I have the right to ask that
        the author list the links as coming from my site?

        If you would like to compare for yourself:
        original site:http://www.eslhome.com/listen
        copied site:
        http://my.netian.com/~unionwj/listening2.htm
        The first section of original site has been pasted
        onto copied page, beginning with "ESL sites" text.

        I really would like your opinion on this.
        best regards,
        Arlyn

        =====
        Your new home for ESL...http://www.eslhome.com

        __________________________________________________
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      • Vance Stevens
        Arlyn, Sorry you re having this problem. It is indeed an issue among educators, and the lifting of content wholesale and reproducing it without your express
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 19, 2002
          Arlyn,

          Sorry you're having this problem. It is indeed an issue among educators, and the lifting of content wholesale and reproducing it without your express permission is plagiarism. On TESLCA-L recently there was a long-running thread on the framing of sites. This is a practice by which a portal site places your page in its frame in such a way that it appears to be a part of its site. This was also not on, as far as the group were concerned.

          Ron is correct that material on the web is free for us all to use, but this use must be on the web, not copied to another server, or redisplayed in any form other than at its original location on the web, unless the owner of the site has given permission for such use. In other words, the only way you can refer to it ethically is to paraphrase perhaps and then link to the original.

          It is easy to find out if anyone else is using your material, and in fact, owners of well-known sites will do this. You simply paste unique text from your site into a search engine and see where that text crops up on the web. Unauthorized use is often unearthed in this manner.

          As for remedy, as Aiden suggests, a polite note to the offending party would be a first step. If this does not do the trick, then if you can conjure up a slightly less polite notice on legal stationary, that would be a second step. Beyond that, it would depend on your resources. I noticed on a Webheads related topic recently that it is near impossible to find any syndicated comic strips on the web. My search was for Far Side comics, but try to read your favorite comic on the web and see if you can find it anywhere. You might find hits that have dried up, and in Gary Larson's case, his reasoned 'polite' message to people putting his work on their own websites, even for free, is available online.

          For poor educators with no budget for legal fees, such tactics are probably out of the question, but we do have our reputations to parlay as bargaining chips. For that reason, many educators will respond to a mild tap on the wrist, but if this person persists in reproducing your content, Arlyn, then what you can do is spread the word on the lists by raising the issue. It's a serious one, and for anyone who copies the work of others and represents it as his/her own, exposure in this ever shrinking world might be fitting punishment.

          But try the polite email message first.

          Vance

          p.s. couldn't reach the /listen portion of you site,
          V


          eaglerrf wrote:

          > I feel if you created (not finding) the listening web site than you
          > have an issue. If it is located on the web, then isn't it free for all
          > of us to use?
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > evonline2002_webheads-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > For more information:
          > http://www.vancestevens.com/papers/evonline2002/webheads.htm
          > http://lightning.prohosting.com/~vstevens/papers/evonline2002/webheads.htm
          >
          > Syllabus:
          > http://www.vancestevens.com/papers/evonline2002/syllabus.htm
          > http://lightning.prohosting.com/~vstevens/papers/evonline2002/syllabus.htm
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Teresa Almeida d'Eça
          Dear Arlyn, I feel for you! It is unacceptable, more so coming (presumably) from a colleague. I say presumably, because it is hard for me to think of a true
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 20, 2002
            Dear Arlyn,

            I feel for you! It is unacceptable, more so coming (presumably) from a
            colleague. I say presumably, because it is hard for me to think of a
            true and professional colleague doing that to another colleague!

            I'd say/I hope that most of us teachers were/are taught, and teach, a
            golden rule -give credit where it's due! All else is, i.m.h.o.,
            'plagiarism'. However, 'the person in question' does not seem to know
            the meaning of 'credit', much less the meaning of 'very hard work'
            that goes into creating the great sites you've created, Arlyn. A link
            is all that is necessary, in certain cases with permission from the
            creator of the page/site.

            Though I think Aiden and Vance have said it all - I'd also start with
            their 'polite email message'. Of course you "have the right to ask
            that the author list the links as coming from my site."

            Then, I'd also try and contact the Webmaster of the .com site and see
            what can be done.

            I don't know if this works with Web pages, though it should. It worked
            with email when I was the target of an extremely unpleasant, low and
            cheap message regarding an educational project I'd carried with a
            group of students. I contacted my Postmaster and the other person's
            Postmaster, and the person was banned from his/her (?) mail server.
            Fortunately, I never got any other similar messages from that (or any
            other) source.

            Arlyn, I do hope credit is given where it is due a.s.a.p.!

            Hugs, Teresa




            > Hi everyone,
            >
            > I have a question regarding the intellectual
            > copyrights of web material. As many of us in this
            > community know, the ideal web world is one of shared
            > information (cost free). Most of us participate to
            > keep this ideal alive.
            >
            > At the same time, can we expect to receive credit for
            > our labor?
            >
            > I ask this question because I just discovered a
            > website that has copied and pasted some of my text and
            > links verbatim (including font type and color!).
            > While the page (elsewhere) also refers people to my
            > site as a possible resource, the author has also taken
            > most of the key information from my site and placed it
            > on his own, without crediting me for the original
            > research. (While a few of these links are well known,
            > the majority of them are not and were discovered after
            > long nights of web surfing).
            >
            > If this site were a student paper it would be declared
            > a case of plagiarism. But as a website by a fellow
            > teacher (and in keeping with the "good faith" motto of
            > internet education) do I have the right to ask that
            > the author list the links as coming from my site?
            >
            > If you would like to compare for yourself:
            > original site:http://www.eslhome.com/listen
            > copied site:
            > http://my.netian.com/~unionwj/listening2.htm
            > The first section of original site has been pasted
            > onto copied page, beginning with "ESL sites" text.
            >
            > I really would like your opinion on this.
            > best regards,
            > Arlyn
          • Arlyn Freed
            THANK YOU! Thanks to everyone who responded (so quickly!) with advice re: lifted material from web sites. Now that I have heard from you (I consider this
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 20, 2002
              THANK YOU!

              Thanks to everyone who responded (so quickly!) with
              advice re: "lifted" material from web sites. Now that
              I have heard from you (I consider this community
              experts on a great many subjects) I feel more
              confident requesting the author send his students
              directly to my site for the links. Hopefully, as I
              still believe the web is a larger community that
              collaborates as one, he will agree with my reasoning.
              And, should I inadvertently do the same to another, I
              hope I would also be called to task and corrected in
              the same manner.

              Thanks again to all of you, I'll let you know the
              outcome of the correspondance!
              All the best,
              Arlyn

              As a PS: It'd be great if Vance would post his e-mail
              (see below), for public (non-Webhead list)
              consumption; I'd love to be able to direct others to
              this informed view.

              Message: 8
              Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 10:20:59 +0400
              From: Vance Stevens <vstevens@...>
              Subject: Re: Re: website integrity: what are our
              rights?

              Arlyn,

              Sorry you're having this problem. It is indeed an
              issue among
              educators, and the lifting of content wholesale and
              reproducing it without your
              express permission is plagiarism. On TESLCA-L
              recently there was a
              long-running thread on the framing of sites. This is
              a practice by which
              a portal site places your page in its frame in such a
              way that it
              appears to be a part of its site. This was also not
              on, as far as the group
              were concerned.

              Ron is correct that material on the web is free for us
              all to use, but
              this use must be on the web, not copied to another
              server, or
              redisplayed in any form other than at its original
              location on the web, unless
              the owner of the site has given permission for such
              use. In other
              words, the only way you can refer to it ethically is
              to paraphrase perhaps
              and then link to the original.

              It is easy to find out if anyone else is using your
              material, and in
              fact, owners of well-known sites will do this. You
              simply paste unique
              text from your site into a search engine and see where
              that text crops
              up on the web. Unauthorized use is often unearthed in
              this manner.

              As for remedy, as Aiden suggests, a polite note to the
              offending party
              would be a first step. If this does not do the trick,
              then if you can
              conjure up a slightly less polite notice on legal
              stationary, that
              would be a second step. Beyond that, it would depend
              on your resources. I
              noticed on a Webheads related topic recently that it
              is near impossible
              to find any syndicated comic strips on the web. My
              search was for Far
              Side comics, but try to read your favorite comic on
              the web and see if
              you can find it anywhere. You might find hits that
              have dried up, and
              in Gary Larson's case, his reasoned 'polite' message
              to people putting
              his work on their own websites, even for free, is
              available online.

              For poor educators with no budget for legal fees, such
              tactics are
              probably out of the question, but we do have our
              reputations to parlay as
              bargaining chips. For that reason, many educators
              will respond to a
              mild tap on the wrist, but if this person persists in
              reproducing your
              content, Arlyn, then what you can do is spread the
              word on the lists by
              raising the issue. It's a serious one, and for anyone
              who copies the
              work of others and represents it as his/her own,
              exposure in this ever
              shrinking world might be fitting punishment.

              But try the polite email message first.

              Vance


              =====
              Your new home for ESL...http://www.eslhome.com

              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
              http://health.yahoo.com
            • Vance Stevens
              I think my views are pretty much the norm, and I don t know where I would post them if not in response to a thread started by someone else as in Arlyn s case.
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 20, 2002
                I think my views are pretty much the norm, and I don't know where I would post them if not in response to a thread started by someone else as in Arlyn's case. However, I have an idea. You have my permission to post my comments elsewhere if you see fit, and also to put them on your site if you'd like to put a notice there regarding plagiarism. If you put them on your site you would then be able to direct others to these comments.

                Vance


                Arlyn Freed wrote:

                > THANK YOU!
                >
                > Thanks to everyone who responded (so quickly!) with
                > advice re: "lifted" material from web sites. Now that
                > I have heard from you (I consider this community
                > experts on a great many subjects) I feel more
                > confident requesting the author send his students
                > directly to my site for the links. Hopefully, as I
                > still believe the web is a larger community that
                > collaborates as one, he will agree with my reasoning.
                > And, should I inadvertently do the same to another, I
                > hope I would also be called to task and corrected in
                > the same manner.
                >
                > Thanks again to all of you, I'll let you know the
                > outcome of the correspondance!
                > All the best,
                > Arlyn
                >
                > As a PS: It'd be great if Vance would post his e-mail
                > (see below), for public (non-Webhead list)
                > consumption; I'd love to be able to direct others to
                > this informed view.
                >
                > Message: 8
                > Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 10:20:59 +0400
                > From: Vance Stevens <vstevens@...>
                > Subject: Re: Re: website integrity: what are our
                > rights?
                >
                > Arlyn,
                >
                > Sorry you're having this problem. It is indeed an
                > issue among
                > educators, and the lifting of content wholesale and
                > reproducing it without your
                > express permission is plagiarism. On TESLCA-L
                > recently there was a
                > long-running thread on the framing of sites. This is
                > a practice by which
                > a portal site places your page in its frame in such a
                > way that it
                > appears to be a part of its site. This was also not
                > on, as far as the group
                > were concerned.
                >
                > Ron is correct that material on the web is free for us
                > all to use, but
                > this use must be on the web, not copied to another
                > server, or
                > redisplayed in any form other than at its original
                > location on the web, unless
                > the owner of the site has given permission for such
                > use. In other
                > words, the only way you can refer to it ethically is
                > to paraphrase perhaps
                > and then link to the original.
                >
                > It is easy to find out if anyone else is using your
                > material, and in
                > fact, owners of well-known sites will do this. You
                > simply paste unique
                > text from your site into a search engine and see where
                > that text crops
                > up on the web. Unauthorized use is often unearthed in
                > this manner.
                >
                > As for remedy, as Aiden suggests, a polite note to the
                > offending party
                > would be a first step. If this does not do the trick,
                > then if you can
                > conjure up a slightly less polite notice on legal
                > stationary, that
                > would be a second step. Beyond that, it would depend
                > on your resources. I
                > noticed on a Webheads related topic recently that it
                > is near impossible
                > to find any syndicated comic strips on the web. My
                > search was for Far
                > Side comics, but try to read your favorite comic on
                > the web and see if
                > you can find it anywhere. You might find hits that
                > have dried up, and
                > in Gary Larson's case, his reasoned 'polite' message
                > to people putting
                > his work on their own websites, even for free, is
                > available online.
                >
                > For poor educators with no budget for legal fees, such
                > tactics are
                > probably out of the question, but we do have our
                > reputations to parlay as
                > bargaining chips. For that reason, many educators
                > will respond to a
                > mild tap on the wrist, but if this person persists in
                > reproducing your
                > content, Arlyn, then what you can do is spread the
                > word on the lists by
                > raising the issue. It's a serious one, and for anyone
                > who copies the
                > work of others and represents it as his/her own,
                > exposure in this ever
                > shrinking world might be fitting punishment.
                >
                > But try the polite email message first.
                >
                > Vance
                >
                > =====
                > Your new home for ESL...http://www.eslhome.com
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
                > http://health.yahoo.com
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > evonline2002_webheads-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > For more information:
                > http://www.vancestevens.com/papers/evonline2002/webheads.htm
                > http://lightning.prohosting.com/~vstevens/papers/evonline2002/webheads.htm
                >
                > Syllabus:
                > http://www.vancestevens.com/papers/evonline2002/syllabus.htm
                > http://lightning.prohosting.com/~vstevens/papers/evonline2002/syllabus.htm
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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