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website integrity: what are our rights?

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  • Arlyn Freed
    Hi everyone, I have a question regarding the intellectual copyrights of web material. As many of us in this community know, the ideal web world is one of
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 19, 2002
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      Hi everyone,

      I have a question regarding the intellectual
      copyrights of web material. As many of us in this
      community know, the ideal web world is one of shared
      information (cost free). Most of us participate to
      keep this ideal alive.

      At the same time, can we expect to receive credit for
      our labor?

      I ask this question because I just discovered a
      website that has copied and pasted some of my text and
      links verbatim (including font type and color!).
      While the page (elsewhere) also refers people to my
      site as a possible resource, the author has also taken
      most of the key information from my site and placed it
      on his own, without crediting me for the original
      research. (While a few of these links are well known,
      the majority of them are not and were discovered after
      long nights of web surfing).

      If this site were a student paper it would be declared
      a case of plagiarism. But as a website by a fellow
      teacher (and in keeping with the "good faith" motto of
      internet education) do I have the right to ask that
      the author list the links as coming from my site?

      If you would like to compare for yourself:
      original site:http://www.eslhome.com/listen
      copied site:
      http://my.netian.com/~unionwj/listening2.htm
      The first section of original site has been pasted
      onto copied page, beginning with "ESL sites" text.

      I really would like your opinion on this.
      best regards,
      Arlyn

      =====
      Your new home for ESL...http://www.eslhome.com

      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
      http://autos.yahoo.com
    • eaglerrf
      I feel if you created (not finding) the listening web site than you have an issue. If it is located on the web, then isn t it free for all of us to use?
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 19, 2002
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        I feel if you created (not finding) the listening web site than you
        have an issue. If it is located on the web, then isn't it free for all
        of us to use?
      • aiden yeh
        Arlyn, You could try to write directly to the person involved and express to him/her politely what you actually feel, and ask him/her to give credit where
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 19, 2002
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          Arlyn,
          You could try to write directly to the person involved and express to him/her politely what you actually feel, and ask him/her to give credit where credit is due.
          goodluck,
          aiden
          Arlyn Freed wrote:Hi everyone,

          I have a question regarding the intellectual
          copyrights of web material. As many of us in this
          community know, the ideal web world is one of shared
          information (cost free). Most of us participate to
          keep this ideal alive.

          At the same time, can we expect to receive credit for
          our labor?

          I ask this question because I just discovered a
          website that has copied and pasted some of my text and
          links verbatim (including font type and color!).
          While the page (elsewhere) also refers people to my
          site as a possible resource, the author has also taken
          most of the key information from my site and placed it
          on his own, without crediting me for the original
          research. (While a few of these links are well known,
          the majority of them are not and were discovered after
          long nights of web surfing).

          If this site were a student paper it would be declared
          a case of plagiarism. But as a website by a fellow
          teacher (and in keeping with the "good faith" motto of
          internet education) do I have the right to ask that
          the author list the links as coming from my site?

          If you would like to compare for yourself:
          original site:http://www.eslhome.com/listen
          copied site:
          http://my.netian.com/~unionwj/listening2.htm
          The first section of original site has been pasted
          onto copied page, beginning with "ESL sites" text.

          I really would like your opinion on this.
          best regards,
          Arlyn

          =====
          Your new home for ESL...http://www.eslhome.com

          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
          http://autos.yahoo.com

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        • Vance Stevens
          Arlyn, Sorry you re having this problem. It is indeed an issue among educators, and the lifting of content wholesale and reproducing it without your express
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 19, 2002
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            Arlyn,

            Sorry you're having this problem. It is indeed an issue among educators, and the lifting of content wholesale and reproducing it without your express permission is plagiarism. On TESLCA-L recently there was a long-running thread on the framing of sites. This is a practice by which a portal site places your page in its frame in such a way that it appears to be a part of its site. This was also not on, as far as the group were concerned.

            Ron is correct that material on the web is free for us all to use, but this use must be on the web, not copied to another server, or redisplayed in any form other than at its original location on the web, unless the owner of the site has given permission for such use. In other words, the only way you can refer to it ethically is to paraphrase perhaps and then link to the original.

            It is easy to find out if anyone else is using your material, and in fact, owners of well-known sites will do this. You simply paste unique text from your site into a search engine and see where that text crops up on the web. Unauthorized use is often unearthed in this manner.

            As for remedy, as Aiden suggests, a polite note to the offending party would be a first step. If this does not do the trick, then if you can conjure up a slightly less polite notice on legal stationary, that would be a second step. Beyond that, it would depend on your resources. I noticed on a Webheads related topic recently that it is near impossible to find any syndicated comic strips on the web. My search was for Far Side comics, but try to read your favorite comic on the web and see if you can find it anywhere. You might find hits that have dried up, and in Gary Larson's case, his reasoned 'polite' message to people putting his work on their own websites, even for free, is available online.

            For poor educators with no budget for legal fees, such tactics are probably out of the question, but we do have our reputations to parlay as bargaining chips. For that reason, many educators will respond to a mild tap on the wrist, but if this person persists in reproducing your content, Arlyn, then what you can do is spread the word on the lists by raising the issue. It's a serious one, and for anyone who copies the work of others and represents it as his/her own, exposure in this ever shrinking world might be fitting punishment.

            But try the polite email message first.

            Vance

            p.s. couldn't reach the /listen portion of you site,
            V


            eaglerrf wrote:

            > I feel if you created (not finding) the listening web site than you
            > have an issue. If it is located on the web, then isn't it free for all
            > of us to use?
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > evonline2002_webheads-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > For more information:
            > http://www.vancestevens.com/papers/evonline2002/webheads.htm
            > http://lightning.prohosting.com/~vstevens/papers/evonline2002/webheads.htm
            >
            > Syllabus:
            > http://www.vancestevens.com/papers/evonline2002/syllabus.htm
            > http://lightning.prohosting.com/~vstevens/papers/evonline2002/syllabus.htm
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • Teresa Almeida d'Eça
            Dear Arlyn, I feel for you! It is unacceptable, more so coming (presumably) from a colleague. I say presumably, because it is hard for me to think of a true
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 20, 2002
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              Dear Arlyn,

              I feel for you! It is unacceptable, more so coming (presumably) from a
              colleague. I say presumably, because it is hard for me to think of a
              true and professional colleague doing that to another colleague!

              I'd say/I hope that most of us teachers were/are taught, and teach, a
              golden rule -give credit where it's due! All else is, i.m.h.o.,
              'plagiarism'. However, 'the person in question' does not seem to know
              the meaning of 'credit', much less the meaning of 'very hard work'
              that goes into creating the great sites you've created, Arlyn. A link
              is all that is necessary, in certain cases with permission from the
              creator of the page/site.

              Though I think Aiden and Vance have said it all - I'd also start with
              their 'polite email message'. Of course you "have the right to ask
              that the author list the links as coming from my site."

              Then, I'd also try and contact the Webmaster of the .com site and see
              what can be done.

              I don't know if this works with Web pages, though it should. It worked
              with email when I was the target of an extremely unpleasant, low and
              cheap message regarding an educational project I'd carried with a
              group of students. I contacted my Postmaster and the other person's
              Postmaster, and the person was banned from his/her (?) mail server.
              Fortunately, I never got any other similar messages from that (or any
              other) source.

              Arlyn, I do hope credit is given where it is due a.s.a.p.!

              Hugs, Teresa




              > Hi everyone,
              >
              > I have a question regarding the intellectual
              > copyrights of web material. As many of us in this
              > community know, the ideal web world is one of shared
              > information (cost free). Most of us participate to
              > keep this ideal alive.
              >
              > At the same time, can we expect to receive credit for
              > our labor?
              >
              > I ask this question because I just discovered a
              > website that has copied and pasted some of my text and
              > links verbatim (including font type and color!).
              > While the page (elsewhere) also refers people to my
              > site as a possible resource, the author has also taken
              > most of the key information from my site and placed it
              > on his own, without crediting me for the original
              > research. (While a few of these links are well known,
              > the majority of them are not and were discovered after
              > long nights of web surfing).
              >
              > If this site were a student paper it would be declared
              > a case of plagiarism. But as a website by a fellow
              > teacher (and in keeping with the "good faith" motto of
              > internet education) do I have the right to ask that
              > the author list the links as coming from my site?
              >
              > If you would like to compare for yourself:
              > original site:http://www.eslhome.com/listen
              > copied site:
              > http://my.netian.com/~unionwj/listening2.htm
              > The first section of original site has been pasted
              > onto copied page, beginning with "ESL sites" text.
              >
              > I really would like your opinion on this.
              > best regards,
              > Arlyn
            • Arlyn Freed
              THANK YOU! Thanks to everyone who responded (so quickly!) with advice re: lifted material from web sites. Now that I have heard from you (I consider this
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 20, 2002
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                THANK YOU!

                Thanks to everyone who responded (so quickly!) with
                advice re: "lifted" material from web sites. Now that
                I have heard from you (I consider this community
                experts on a great many subjects) I feel more
                confident requesting the author send his students
                directly to my site for the links. Hopefully, as I
                still believe the web is a larger community that
                collaborates as one, he will agree with my reasoning.
                And, should I inadvertently do the same to another, I
                hope I would also be called to task and corrected in
                the same manner.

                Thanks again to all of you, I'll let you know the
                outcome of the correspondance!
                All the best,
                Arlyn

                As a PS: It'd be great if Vance would post his e-mail
                (see below), for public (non-Webhead list)
                consumption; I'd love to be able to direct others to
                this informed view.

                Message: 8
                Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 10:20:59 +0400
                From: Vance Stevens <vstevens@...>
                Subject: Re: Re: website integrity: what are our
                rights?

                Arlyn,

                Sorry you're having this problem. It is indeed an
                issue among
                educators, and the lifting of content wholesale and
                reproducing it without your
                express permission is plagiarism. On TESLCA-L
                recently there was a
                long-running thread on the framing of sites. This is
                a practice by which
                a portal site places your page in its frame in such a
                way that it
                appears to be a part of its site. This was also not
                on, as far as the group
                were concerned.

                Ron is correct that material on the web is free for us
                all to use, but
                this use must be on the web, not copied to another
                server, or
                redisplayed in any form other than at its original
                location on the web, unless
                the owner of the site has given permission for such
                use. In other
                words, the only way you can refer to it ethically is
                to paraphrase perhaps
                and then link to the original.

                It is easy to find out if anyone else is using your
                material, and in
                fact, owners of well-known sites will do this. You
                simply paste unique
                text from your site into a search engine and see where
                that text crops
                up on the web. Unauthorized use is often unearthed in
                this manner.

                As for remedy, as Aiden suggests, a polite note to the
                offending party
                would be a first step. If this does not do the trick,
                then if you can
                conjure up a slightly less polite notice on legal
                stationary, that
                would be a second step. Beyond that, it would depend
                on your resources. I
                noticed on a Webheads related topic recently that it
                is near impossible
                to find any syndicated comic strips on the web. My
                search was for Far
                Side comics, but try to read your favorite comic on
                the web and see if
                you can find it anywhere. You might find hits that
                have dried up, and
                in Gary Larson's case, his reasoned 'polite' message
                to people putting
                his work on their own websites, even for free, is
                available online.

                For poor educators with no budget for legal fees, such
                tactics are
                probably out of the question, but we do have our
                reputations to parlay as
                bargaining chips. For that reason, many educators
                will respond to a
                mild tap on the wrist, but if this person persists in
                reproducing your
                content, Arlyn, then what you can do is spread the
                word on the lists by
                raising the issue. It's a serious one, and for anyone
                who copies the
                work of others and represents it as his/her own,
                exposure in this ever
                shrinking world might be fitting punishment.

                But try the polite email message first.

                Vance


                =====
                Your new home for ESL...http://www.eslhome.com

                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
                http://health.yahoo.com
              • Vance Stevens
                I think my views are pretty much the norm, and I don t know where I would post them if not in response to a thread started by someone else as in Arlyn s case.
                Message 7 of 7 , Jul 20, 2002
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                  I think my views are pretty much the norm, and I don't know where I would post them if not in response to a thread started by someone else as in Arlyn's case. However, I have an idea. You have my permission to post my comments elsewhere if you see fit, and also to put them on your site if you'd like to put a notice there regarding plagiarism. If you put them on your site you would then be able to direct others to these comments.

                  Vance


                  Arlyn Freed wrote:

                  > THANK YOU!
                  >
                  > Thanks to everyone who responded (so quickly!) with
                  > advice re: "lifted" material from web sites. Now that
                  > I have heard from you (I consider this community
                  > experts on a great many subjects) I feel more
                  > confident requesting the author send his students
                  > directly to my site for the links. Hopefully, as I
                  > still believe the web is a larger community that
                  > collaborates as one, he will agree with my reasoning.
                  > And, should I inadvertently do the same to another, I
                  > hope I would also be called to task and corrected in
                  > the same manner.
                  >
                  > Thanks again to all of you, I'll let you know the
                  > outcome of the correspondance!
                  > All the best,
                  > Arlyn
                  >
                  > As a PS: It'd be great if Vance would post his e-mail
                  > (see below), for public (non-Webhead list)
                  > consumption; I'd love to be able to direct others to
                  > this informed view.
                  >
                  > Message: 8
                  > Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 10:20:59 +0400
                  > From: Vance Stevens <vstevens@...>
                  > Subject: Re: Re: website integrity: what are our
                  > rights?
                  >
                  > Arlyn,
                  >
                  > Sorry you're having this problem. It is indeed an
                  > issue among
                  > educators, and the lifting of content wholesale and
                  > reproducing it without your
                  > express permission is plagiarism. On TESLCA-L
                  > recently there was a
                  > long-running thread on the framing of sites. This is
                  > a practice by which
                  > a portal site places your page in its frame in such a
                  > way that it
                  > appears to be a part of its site. This was also not
                  > on, as far as the group
                  > were concerned.
                  >
                  > Ron is correct that material on the web is free for us
                  > all to use, but
                  > this use must be on the web, not copied to another
                  > server, or
                  > redisplayed in any form other than at its original
                  > location on the web, unless
                  > the owner of the site has given permission for such
                  > use. In other
                  > words, the only way you can refer to it ethically is
                  > to paraphrase perhaps
                  > and then link to the original.
                  >
                  > It is easy to find out if anyone else is using your
                  > material, and in
                  > fact, owners of well-known sites will do this. You
                  > simply paste unique
                  > text from your site into a search engine and see where
                  > that text crops
                  > up on the web. Unauthorized use is often unearthed in
                  > this manner.
                  >
                  > As for remedy, as Aiden suggests, a polite note to the
                  > offending party
                  > would be a first step. If this does not do the trick,
                  > then if you can
                  > conjure up a slightly less polite notice on legal
                  > stationary, that
                  > would be a second step. Beyond that, it would depend
                  > on your resources. I
                  > noticed on a Webheads related topic recently that it
                  > is near impossible
                  > to find any syndicated comic strips on the web. My
                  > search was for Far
                  > Side comics, but try to read your favorite comic on
                  > the web and see if
                  > you can find it anywhere. You might find hits that
                  > have dried up, and
                  > in Gary Larson's case, his reasoned 'polite' message
                  > to people putting
                  > his work on their own websites, even for free, is
                  > available online.
                  >
                  > For poor educators with no budget for legal fees, such
                  > tactics are
                  > probably out of the question, but we do have our
                  > reputations to parlay as
                  > bargaining chips. For that reason, many educators
                  > will respond to a
                  > mild tap on the wrist, but if this person persists in
                  > reproducing your
                  > content, Arlyn, then what you can do is spread the
                  > word on the lists by
                  > raising the issue. It's a serious one, and for anyone
                  > who copies the
                  > work of others and represents it as his/her own,
                  > exposure in this ever
                  > shrinking world might be fitting punishment.
                  >
                  > But try the polite email message first.
                  >
                  > Vance
                  >
                  > =====
                  > Your new home for ESL...http://www.eslhome.com
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
                  > http://health.yahoo.com
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > evonline2002_webheads-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > For more information:
                  > http://www.vancestevens.com/papers/evonline2002/webheads.htm
                  > http://lightning.prohosting.com/~vstevens/papers/evonline2002/webheads.htm
                  >
                  > Syllabus:
                  > http://www.vancestevens.com/papers/evonline2002/syllabus.htm
                  > http://lightning.prohosting.com/~vstevens/papers/evonline2002/syllabus.htm
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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