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  • Dennis Newson
    What would webheads recommend for making sendable (internet) videos?. There is Film Maker in Windows XP Professional, which I ve not heard anyone mention.
    Message 1 of 26 , Jul 29 6:51 AM
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      What would webheads recommend for making sendable (internet) videos?. There
      is Film Maker in Windows XP Professional, which I've not heard anyone
      mention. And...?

      Thanks in advance,

      Dennis
      --


      Dennis Newson (retired)
      University Osnabrück
      CETEFL-L, Germany-English,
      EFLTU etc.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Martina Schubert
      Dear Dennis, Although I am not yet a webhead, but as I do not see a reply to your question, let me please answer this one. Windows XP (both Professional and
      Message 2 of 26 , Jul 30 6:02 AM
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        Dear Dennis,

        Although I am not yet a webhead, but as I do not see a reply to your
        question, let me please answer this one.

        Windows XP (both Professional and Home) has two very good for making movies:

        - Windows MovieMaker (mixing your AVI clips with photos, nice transitions,
        blend effects, music, narration etc.)
        - Foto Story 3 (like Windows MovieMaker, but making movies from your
        *photos*, with nice transitions, blend effects, narration, background music
        etc.).

        Both offer anything you would want for creating nice movies, and they let
        you export your movies into versions for publishing on a website, for
        sending to friends by e-mail, and for other output.

        But - yes, there is a "BUT": the movies can be viewed only on Windows
        machines without any problems, as the WMV file extension is a typical
        Windows format. Linux and Mac users might have difficulties to watch your
        movie.

        This is the reason why many users export their WMV movie into another format
        - I personally prefer Flash,
        which is viewable in every browser that supports Flash.

        Best regards,
        Martina


        On 7/29/06, Dennis Newson <djn@...> wrote:
        >
        > What would webheads recommend for making sendable (internet) videos?.
        > There
        > is Film Maker in Windows XP Professional, which I've not heard anyone
        > mention. And...?
        >
        > Thanks in advance,
        >
        > Dennis
        >












        --
        http://www.slidestory.com/lg_maxie
        http://russianweblog.blogspot.com


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dennis Newson
        Thjanks very much for this , Martina. I tried to use MovieMaker, but just after I got started, it reported a problem and shut down. But I ll try again, and let
        Message 3 of 26 , Jul 30 7:16 AM
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          Thjanks very much for this , Martina. I tried to use MovieMaker, but just
          after I got started, it reported a problem and shut down.
          But I'll try again, and let you and the list know how I get on.

          Dennis


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Teresa Almeida d'Eca
          Hi, everyone! I ve just sent Dennis a private message with a short video (40 secs but 7,200 KB!!!) to see if this is what he means. Let s wait for his
          Message 4 of 26 , Jul 30 7:57 AM
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            Hi, everyone!

            I've just sent Dennis a private message with a short video (40 secs but 7,200 KB!!!) to see if this is what he means. Let's wait for his comments.

            I have a Logitech webcam so I used the Image Studio software that comes with it to record the message. I also have Windows XP Pro.

            Hugs, Teresa


            What would webheads recommend for making sendable (internet) videos?. There
            is Film Maker in Windows XP Professional, which I've not heard anyone
            mention. And...?

            Thanks in advance,

            Dennis

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Martina Schubert
            Hello Dennis, I am sorry to read you had some problems with MovieMaker, because this program is really very handy (when it works). Perhaps the program got
            Message 5 of 26 , Jul 30 10:35 AM
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              Hello Dennis,

              I am sorry to read you had some problems with MovieMaker, because this
              program is really very handy (when it works). Perhaps the program got
              damaged somewhen in the past when you installed or removed something
              else? A movie showing how a normally functioning MovieMaker should
              work is here:

              <http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/moviemaker/videos/share.mspx>

              When MovieMaker crashes on your computer, and provided that your
              hardware conditions are OK (check on
              <http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/updates/moviemaker2.mspx>);
              I would consider a re-installment (download link is given on the
              Microsoft website, too) and then watch the videos "Create Home Movies
              Effortlessly" and "Saving and Sharing Movies" (on the first link).

              And something else: Although I am not at all an expert, but I dare to
              say that a WMV movie *never* needs 7 MB for 40 secs, and other video
              programs don't either. WMVs are optimised for internet (streaming). I
              produced a WMV last night that had 6 MB for 6 minutes (including my
              speech and background music, and various transition effects) at a
              resolution of 680 x 460. A movie to be sent by email is even smaller
              in file size, because it is more compressed and - if I remember right
              - downsized to a smaller resolution of 240 to something (I don't
              recall - sending videos by mail was never an option for me).

              Wishing you luck and success,
              you will see it is really fun to produce little videos!

              Kind regards,

              Martina
            • Martina Schubert
              Hi Teresa, ... Too big! Please check the file extension of your movie. I suppose it is just the project file of your Image Studio Software, readable only oonn
              Message 6 of 26 , Jul 30 10:44 AM
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                Hi Teresa,

                > I've just sent Dennis a private message with a short video (40 secs but 7,200 KB!!!) to see if this is what he means. Let's wait for his comments.
                >
                > I have a Logitech webcam so I used the Image Studio software that comes with it to record the message. I also have Windows XP Pro.

                Too big! Please check the file extension of your movie. I suppose it
                is just the project file of your Image Studio Software, readable only
                oonn computers which have this software. I do not know your program,
                but probably for publishing your video online or for sending by email
                you should look for an "export" function in your program.

                I know this from MovieMaker and FotoStory: There is a function "save"
                meaning saving the *project* and a function *export* meaning
                optimising for watching the video on the net, or for sending by email,
                or for mediacenter etc. In case of my WMV video I made last night (6
                MB), the project file was 30 MB! This is why I recommend to check the
                options in your program.

                Kind regards,
                Martina
              • Dennis Newson
                Again, Martina, thanks. Your feedback is really motivating and I shall most definitely persevere. Dennis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 26 , Jul 30 12:36 PM
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                  Again, Martina, thanks.

                  Your feedback is really motivating and I shall most definitely persevere.

                  Dennis


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Michael Marzio
                  Hi Dennis et al, Of course, the smaller the file size, the more sendable the videos become. I m answering your question only because I have experience in
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jul 31 1:41 AM
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                    Hi Dennis et al,

                    Of course, the smaller the file size, the more "sendable" the videos
                    become.

                    I'm answering your question only because I have experience in video
                    compression. When correctly configured, Real Producer creates the
                    smallest files, taking into account the quality/size factor. Windows
                    Movie Maker comes in second place, and Quicktime in last place (MOV
                    files are always at least 2 and a half times as large as RM files
                    for the same quality). The tools for compression are free except for
                    QuickTime Pro which costs US$30.

                    I'll be happy to get into more detail if you desire.

                    Long live webheads.

                    Mike Marzio


                    --- In evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Newson"
                    <djn@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > What would webheads recommend for making sendable (internet)
                    videos?. There
                    > is Film Maker in Windows XP Professional, which I've not heard
                    anyone
                    > mention. And...?
                    >
                    > Thanks in advance,
                    >
                    > Dennis
                    > --
                    >
                    >
                    > Dennis Newson (retired)
                    > University Osnabrück
                    > CETEFL-L, Germany-English,
                    > EFLTU etc.
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Teresa Almeida d'Eca
                    Hi, Michael! I d like to know more about these video compression tools and where to download them. TIA. Hugs, Teresa [Non-text portions of this message have
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jul 31 3:30 AM
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                      Hi, Michael!

                      I'd like to know more about these video compression tools and where to download them. TIA.

                      Hugs, Teresa

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Teresa Almeida d'Eca
                      Hi, Martina, and welcome! Thanks for the info. Yes, I knew the file was too big, but when I tried compressing it, the difference wasn t significant. The
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jul 31 8:31 AM
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                        Hi, Martina, and welcome!

                        Thanks for the info. Yes, I knew the file was too big, but when I tried compressing it, the difference wasn't significant. The program has different options and I tried three, but since I'm a newbie at this kind of thing, maybe I didn't choose the right program.

                        Now I'm waiting for Michael Marzio to give us info on compression software.

                        Best, Teresa



                        Too big! Please check the file extension of your movie. I suppose it
                        is just the project file of your Image Studio Software, readable only
                        oonn computers which have this software. I do not know your program,
                        but probably for publishing your video online or for sending by email
                        you should look for an "export" function in your program.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Carla arena
                        Dear Tere, I have a logitech too, and that s how I recorded that thank you video for you. You can choose in the config to the quality you want. I m not with it
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jul 31 8:50 AM
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                          Dear Tere,

                          I have a logitech too, and that's how I recorded that thank you video for
                          you. You can choose in the config to the quality you want. I'm not with it
                          right now, but I'm sure you'll find it very easily!

                          Beijos,
                          Carla


                          On 7/31/06, Teresa Almeida d'Eca <tmvaz@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi, Martina, and welcome!
                          >
                          > Thanks for the info. Yes, I knew the file was too big, but when I tried
                          > compressing it, the difference wasn't significant. The program has different
                          > options and I tried three, but since I'm a newbie at this kind of thing,
                          > maybe I didn't choose the right program.
                          >
                          > Now I'm waiting for Michael Marzio to give us info on compression
                          > software.
                          >
                          > Best, Teresa
                          >
                          >
                          > Too big! Please check the file extension of your movie. I suppose it
                          > is just the project file of your Image Studio Software, readable only
                          > oonn computers which have this software. I do not know your program,
                          > but probably for publishing your video online or for sending by email
                          > you should look for an "export" function in your program.
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Michael Marzio
                          Hi Tere and other webheads interested in this thread, The Real Media site seems to hide its best freebies, but I found the page where you can download the free
                          Message 12 of 26 , Aug 1, 2006
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                            Hi Tere and other webheads interested in this thread,

                            The Real Media site seems to hide its best freebies, but I found the
                            page where you can download the free "basic" Real Producer:

                            http://forms.real.com/rnforms/products/tools/producerbasic/index.html
                            or
                            http://tinyurl.com/3x2a4

                            These people are a pain in the neck, obliging you to fill out a form
                            before being able to click on the "Download Now" button. After
                            installation, things look complicated but it's really very simple.

                            Browse for your original video. For best results, this video should
                            be an UNcompressed AVI.

                            After choosing "Audiences" I suggest you remove the 256 kbs default
                            and choose "384 DSL or cable". Curiously, this setting seems to
                            provide the same results in terms of video quality as the 512 kbs
                            setting in Movie Maker when making WMV video files.

                            Don't change anything in the Video Filters settings, but click on
                            Clip information if you want the title of your video (or any info
                            you choose) to scroll under the video when it plays.

                            Then just click on the "encode" button.

                            For WMV clips, just use movie maker and choose 512 kbs for output.

                            For MOV files (Quicktime for Windows), it's a question of us$30 at
                            http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/win.html

                            If you want to compare my own results __with these same settings__,
                            you can see for yourself at

                            http://tinyurl.com/7gqe2
                            and
                            http://tinyurl.com/r6znk

                            After all, video quality is largely a subjective affair.

                            Finally, many people in the video community detest the Real Player
                            because it comes with the "regular junk" (popups, spyware, etc). I
                            don't use it. Instead I use the Real Alternative which plays RM
                            files (and most everything else), WITHOUT any of the junk, available
                            at:

                            http://www.free-codecs.com/download/Real_Alternative.htm
                            or
                            http://tinyurl.com/2f8gp

                            Bises,

                            Mike


                            --- In evonline2002_webheads@yahoogroups.com, "Teresa Almeida d'Eca"
                            <tmvaz@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi, Michael!
                            >
                            > I'd like to know more about these video compression tools and
                            where to download them. TIA.
                            >
                            > Hugs, Teresa
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Teresa Almeida d'Eca
                            Hi, Mike! I ve just followed your suggestion and have been able to reduce the video file I sent Dennis from 7.1 MB to 1.2 MB. Wow!!! And I didn t notice any
                            Message 13 of 26 , Aug 1, 2006
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                              Hi, Mike!

                              I've just followed your suggestion and have been able to reduce the video file I sent Dennis from 7.1 MB to 1.2 MB. Wow!!! And I didn't notice any change in quality. Here's the link where you can see it.
                              http://teresadeca.motime.com/

                              Thank you, Mike!

                              My question now is: are .rv files Mac compatible?

                              Hugs, Teresa



                              http://forms.real.com/rnforms/products/tools/producerbasic/index.html
                              or
                              http://tinyurl.com/3x2a4

                              If you want to compare my own results __with these same settings__,
                              you can see for yourself at
                              http://tinyurl.com/7gqe2
                              and
                              http://tinyurl.com/r6znk

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Dennis Newson
                              Teresa, Sorry I didn t answer before. Your video was clear and focussed and is really moving, somehow. I love emailing, but to be able to see and hear someone
                              Message 14 of 26 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                Teresa,

                                Sorry I didn't answer before.

                                Your video was clear and focussed and is really moving, somehow. I love
                                emailing, but to be able to see and hear someone you read and see the books
                                on their shelves - a lot of shelves and a lot of books - is, qualitatively,
                                a very rich experience.

                                Thank you so much for taking the trouble.

                                I think I have written before that I am a great fan of the 15-20 minute
                                video (in an educational context) - but these personal communicaitons of a
                                minute or so are great, too.

                                I've fallen, as well, for Jeff Lebow's (Webnet Academy) screencasts videoed,
                                dynamic screenshots plus oral recordedcommentary.

                                PowerPoint, screencasts, video, slidestories, podcasts, blogs, wikis, Flickr
                                - What a wonderful array of presentational and illustrative resources we
                                have available - and my list is not complete.

                                What we need now is a project where these tools can be put to making a
                                useful contribution.

                                Dennis

                                Soory Gmail won't remove your post.

                                On 01/08/06, Teresa Almeida d'Eca <tmvaz@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi, Mike!
                                >
                                > I've just followed your suggestion and have been able to reduce the video
                                > file I sent Dennis from 7.1 MB to 1.2 MB. Wow!!! And I didn't notice any
                                > change in quality. Here's the link where you can see it.
                                > http://teresadeca.motime.com/
                                >
                                > Thank you, Mike!
                                >
                                > My question now is: are .rv files Mac compatible?
                                >
                                > Hugs, Teresa
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > http://forms.real.com/rnforms/products/tools/producerbasic/index.html
                                > or
                                > http://tinyurl.com/3x2a4
                                >
                                > If you want to compare my own results __with these same settings__,
                                > you can see for yourself at
                                > http://tinyurl.com/7gqe2
                                > and
                                > http://tinyurl.com/r6znk
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > For more information:
                                > http://www.geocities.com/vance_stevens/papers/evonline2002/webheads.htm
                                >
                                > When replying to postings, please delete this footer and any other
                                > extraneous text from the reply - Thanks!!plying to postings, please delete
                                > this footer and any other extraneous text from the reply - Thanks!!
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >


                                --


                                Dennis Newson (retired)
                                University Osnabrück
                                CETEFL-L, Germany-English,
                                EFLTU etc.


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Michael Marzio
                                ... That s one of the advantages of using Real Networks Producer - RV, RM and RAM files created with the Real Producer are indeed mac compatible. -AND... for
                                Message 15 of 26 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                  > My question now is: are .rv files Mac compatible?

                                  That's one of the advantages of using Real Networks' Producer -

                                  RV, RM and RAM files created with the Real Producer are indeed mac
                                  compatible.

                                  -AND... for those who are allergic to the Real Player, the Real
                                  Alternative Player - also called "Media Player Classic" also existes
                                  for the mac.
                                • Teresa Almeida d'Eca
                                  Dennis, Thank you for your sweet words. I totally agree with you that seeing and hearing someone and sharing something personal, such as a bookshelf in a
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                    Dennis,

                                    Thank you for your sweet words. I totally agree with you that seeing and hearing someone and sharing something personal, such as a bookshelf in a living-room behind you, is qualitatively a rich experience. It was my pleasure, no trouble at all. It's also part of the exploration and learning process that Webheads just love.

                                    I remember that when we started using video four years ago some of us gave mini tours of the room we were in. It was fun. It made the connection even more personal.

                                    I also listened to Jeff's webcast on desktop management and found that webcasts such as these can be very eye-opening.

                                    All the tools you mention contribute to a very enriching learning process. I tend to decide which one to use with my beginners partly on the spur of the moment and partly from a feeling of what will make the activity more enjoyable for them and have a more lasting effect.

                                    Hugs, Teresa

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Michael Coghlan
                                    I agree with Dennis - what a lovely little movie! It came out beautifully Teresa. We should all do one of these. And stick em in Youtube http://youtube.com/ -
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                      I agree with Dennis - what a lovely little movie! It came out
                                      beautifully Teresa. We should all do one of these. And stick 'em in
                                      Youtube http://youtube.com/ - a series of webhead intros would be lovely.

                                      I just tried with my Logitech cam and the result was reasonable.
                                      Yours was excellent Teresa. Mine is at
                                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5jB3-uWN1o. Sounds not too good but
                                      OK for quick and dirty!

                                      - Michael

                                      At 08:38 PM 1/08/2006, you wrote:

                                      >Hi, Mike!
                                      >
                                      >I've just followed your suggestion and have been able to reduce the
                                      >video file I sent Dennis from 7.1 MB to 1.2 MB. Wow!!! And I didn't
                                      >notice any change in quality. Here's the link where you can see it.
                                      ><http://teresadeca.motime.com/>http://teresadeca.motime.com/
                                      >
                                      >Thank you, Mike!
                                      >
                                      >My question now is: are .rv files Mac compatible?
                                      >
                                      >Hugs, Teresa
                                      >
                                      ><http://forms.real.com/rnforms/products/tools/producerbasic/index.html>http://forms.real.com/rnforms/products/tools/producerbasic/index.html
                                      >or
                                      ><http://tinyurl.com/3x2a4>http://tinyurl.com/3x2a4
                                      >
                                      >If you want to compare my own results __with these same settings__,
                                      >you can see for yourself at
                                      ><http://tinyurl.com/7gqe2>http://tinyurl.com/7gqe2
                                      >and
                                      ><http://tinyurl.com/r6znk>http://tinyurl.com/r6znk
                                      >
                                      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >No virus found in this incoming message.
                                      >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                      >Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/404 - Release Date: 31/07/2006


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Dennis Newson
                                      Michael, Thanks for your 30 second, or whatever it is, intro. You agree with me and I agree with you! It could be great to have a series of these
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                        Michael,

                                        Thanks for your 30 second, or whatever it is, intro. You agree with me and
                                        I agree with you! It could be great to have a series of these introductions
                                        - audio-visual thumbnail sketches, as short and uncomplicated as yours and
                                        Teresa's.

                                        You both have Logitech cams. I like their products - but do yoj both mind
                                        saying which Logitech cam (I want one!) and whether your are a Mac or PC
                                        person.

                                        Teresa mentioned she made her movie with software that came with the cam.
                                        How did you make yours, Michael?

                                        This thread reminds me, there is a useful free site wwhere you can make one
                                        minute videos.

                                        See:

                                        http://www.blogcheese.com

                                        If I remember correctly, I found a link to this site on Elisabeth's
                                        (Hanson-Smith) homepage.


                                        While I'm writing, thanks Michael, too, for the reference to PowerGramo (for
                                        recording Skype conversations). I now use it regularly, with good results.


                                        http://www.powergramo.com/

                                        (Free).

                                        Greetings,


                                        Dennis


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • John Hibbs
                                        Michael, you looked great! Nice work, all. Very nice.
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                          Michael, you looked great! Nice work, all. Very nice.

                                          At 11:36 AM +0930 8/2/06, Michael Coghlan wrote:
                                          >I agree with Dennis - what a lovely little movie! It came out
                                          >beautifully Teresa. We should all do one of these. And stick 'em in
                                          >Youtube http://youtube.com/ - a series of webhead intros would be lovely.
                                          >
                                          >I just tried with my Logitech cam and the result was reasonable.
                                          >Yours was excellent Teresa. Mine is at
                                          >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5jB3-uWN1o. Sounds not too good but
                                          >OK for quick and dirty!
                                        • Teresa Almeida d'Eca
                                          Dear Michael, I m glad that I inspired you to record your nice and pleasant video. It s great to see and hear friends! :-) Hugs, Teresa
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Aug 2, 2006
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                                            Dear Michael,

                                            I'm glad that I inspired you to record your nice and pleasant video. It's great to see and hear friends! :-)

                                            Hugs, Teresa



                                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5jB3-uWN1o

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • smokolo
                                            Dear friends, I have good news - my proposal for Learning Objects: Methods and Discovery at TESOL-Italy s XXXI National Convention to be held in Naples on
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Aug 2, 2006
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                                              Dear friends,

                                              I have good news - my proposal for "Learning Objects: Methods and
                                              Discovery" at TESOL-Italy's XXXI National Convention to be held in
                                              Naples on November 3rd and 4th, 2006 has been accepted. www.tesol.it

                                              So I will be presenting my work in progress, a Learning Object that I
                                              am now building with the guidance of the crew at University of
                                              Nottingham in England (in particular, Thomas Koller who has been
                                              working with me to improve both my work and his editor!) This has been
                                              so much fun for me and I am so grateful to Thomas and his crew....I
                                              feel truly lucky. Will keep you informed and once the LO is finished
                                              I will send on the link.

                                              thanks to you, my cyberspace friends who have inspired me so much....
                                              hugs, Susan
                                            • Teresa Almeida d'Eca
                                              Dear Susan, That s great news about Tesol Italy! Congrats! I look forward to seeing your LO. Hugs, Teresa [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Aug 2, 2006
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                                                Dear Susan,

                                                That's great news about Tesol Italy! Congrats! I look forward to seeing your LO.

                                                Hugs, Teresa

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Moira Hunter
                                                Talking about short videos , this is my favourite at the moment - it really wakes me up!! http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-7836547273687836884 Moira
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Aug 2, 2006
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                                                  Talking about short videos , this is my favourite at the moment - it really wakes me up!!

                                                  http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-7836547273687836884

                                                  Moira



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                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Dennis Newson
                                                  Moira, Do you accept responsibility for making me laugh so loud so early in the day? Thanks! Incidentally, for hamster lovers, owners or carers of chuildren
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Aug 2, 2006
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                                                    Moira,

                                                    Do you accept responsibility for making me laugh so loud so early in the
                                                    day?

                                                    Thanks!


                                                    Incidentally, for hamster lovers, owners or carers of chuildren who love
                                                    hamsters there is a marvellous childrens' book by Lynn Reid Banks (author of
                                                    The L-shaped Room) - Houdini. I don't know if it is still in print, though.


                                                    Dennis


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                                                  • Cheryl Oakes
                                                    Susan, This is great news! Go webheads. Cheryl
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Aug 3, 2006
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                                                      Susan, This is great news! Go webheads.
                                                      Cheryl
                                                    • Cheryl Oakes
                                                      Thanks for some alternatives. I ll check them out. Windows Media Player still won t play on Mac os X, disappointing. Cheryl
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Aug 3, 2006
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                                                        Thanks for some alternatives. I'll check them out. Windows Media
                                                        Player still won't play on Mac os X, disappointing.

                                                        Cheryl
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