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[Evol-Psych] Cross species Friendships - Bunnies & a Pigeon

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  • VQuest95
    The mother-instinct seems to be very strong. I assume that it was a female pigeon. Too bad that so many humans seem to have lost that instinct, but then, one
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 1, 2009
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      The mother-instinct seems to be very strong.  I assume that it was a female pigeon. 
       
      Too bad that so many humans seem to have lost that instinct, but then, one of things that make us human is that many of our instincts have been lost, probably because it makes us more adaptable.   Oh well.......;-) 
       
      Cheers
      Dave Alexander
      Jack of all trades, master of none;-)
       
    • Mark Hubey
      ... Here are two more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYtcEn_r79k
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 1, 2009
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      • Ronald C. Blue
        VQuest95 vquest95@aol.com: The mother-instinct seems to be very strong. I assume that it was a female pigeon. ... A major NY Times article in 1910 proved that
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 2, 2009
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          VQuest95 vquest95@...: The mother-instinct seems to be very strong. I
          assume that it was a female pigeon.
          >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
          A major NY Times article in 1910 proved that there were no instincts. An
          instinct is defined by psychologist since 1910 as a full blow complex
          behavior pattern that occurs in all members of a species can can not be
          modified by learning. A reflex is a simple behavior pattern that can be
          modified by learning for example learning to not blink when contact lens are
          in your eye. A biological predispostion is a innate or inborn biological
          vectoring that makes certain behaviors easy to learn, examples humans
          learning to talk, walk, and smile.

          At one time it was thought that instincts existed only in insects but with
          the latest research on learning it looks like even insects have no
          instincts.
        • Robert Karl Stonjek
          ... From: Ronald C. Blue To: Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [Evol-Psych]
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 2, 2009
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            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Ronald C. Blue" <ronblue2@...>
            Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 4:06 AM
            Subject: Re: [Evol-Psych] Cross species Friendships - Bunnies & a Pigeon

            > VQuest95 vquest95@...: The mother-instinct seems to be very strong.  I
            > assume that it was a female
            pigeon.
            > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
            >
            A major NY Times article in 1910 proved that there were no instincts.  An
            > instinct is defined by psychologist since 1910 as a full blow complex
            > behavior pattern that occurs in all members of a species can can not be
            > modified by learning.  A reflex is a simple behavior pattern that
            can be
            > modified by learning for example learning to not blink when
            contact lens are
            > in your eye.  A biological predispostion is a
            innate or inborn biological
            > vectoring that makes certain behaviors easy
            to learn, examples humans
            > learning to talk, walk, and smile.
            >
            > At one time it was thought that instincts existed only in insects but
            with
            > the latest research on learning it looks like even insects have no
            > instincts.
            >
            RKS:
            The constraint on learning killed the word - it was a mistake to include that condition.
             
            Without the constraint on learning, instinct is a useful word and all animals, including humans, have them.
             
            I assume that the reason for the learning constraint (that instinct can not be modified by learning) was an attempt to show that humans didn't have instincts whereas other animals did, a typical ploy of the time.
             
            Modern definitions of instinct are far more useful:
            1. biological drive: an inborn pattern of behavior characteristic of a species and shaped by biological necessities such as survival and reproduction
            2. strong natural impulse: a powerful impulse that feels natural rather than reasoned

            Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005. © 1993-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

            And one could argue that instincts can not be modified through learning, and they can't, but the behavioural expression of the instinct can be modified ie the instinct can be over-ridden or vetoed.  There was an interesting study of facial expression in response to horror scenes.  The Japanese tend to smile politely, even when they see such scenes.  But a high speed film showed that they first expressed horror before changing the expression - too quick for us to notice in real time.

            Robert

          • bowmanthebard
            ... But why assume that? Why not a father instinct on the part of a male pigeon? As far as I know pigeons are monogamous, which means that male parental
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 3, 2009
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              Dave wrote:

              > The mother-instinct seems to be very strong.
              > I assume that it was a female pigeon.

              But why assume that? Why not a "father instinct" on the part of a male
              pigeon? As far as I know pigeons are monogamous, which means that male
              parental investment would be about the same as female parental
              investment. The investment is about the same because survival of
              offspring depends on reliable input from both parents, and each has
              exactly the same interest in reproducing successfully.

              Whatever about bird behavior "inside the nest" (or equivalent in man-
              made bunny houses) feeding of offspring is more often done by male
              birds than females, because the female expends extra energy producing
              eggs. You can see this with birds whose males and females are clearly
              identifiable, such as the European blackbird. I've often seen males
              feeding almost fully-grown offspring, but I've never seen females
              doing it.

              Jeremy Bowman
            • Edgar Owen
              Ronald, 1910? Are you claiming a study on instinct from then is the latest science on the matter? Every organism has instinctual modes of behavior transmitted
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 3, 2009
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                Ronald,

                1910? Are you claiming a study on instinct from then is the latest science on the matter? Every organism has instinctual modes of behavior transmitted genetically. This 'firmware' of the organism determines its fundamental goals and fundamental  programs towards those goals. Of course as the organism develops these are dynamically modified by intelligent behavior based on current inputs to allow for flexible responses to changing situations.

                Without the survival instinct there would be no direction to any organism's behavior. Without the reproductive instinct there would be no continuation of any species. These instincts give every organism its most basic programming.

                Edgar



                On Jan 2, 2009, at 12:06 PM, Ronald C. Blue wrote:

                VQuest95 vquest95@aol. com: The mother-instinct seems to be very strong. I 
                assume that it was a female pigeon.
                >>>>>>>>>>>> >>
                A major NY Times article in 1910 proved that there were no instincts. An 
                instinct is defined by psychologist since 1910 as a full blow complex 
                behavior pattern that occurs in all members of a species can can not be 
                modified by learning. A reflex is a simple behavior pattern that can be 
                modified by learning for example learning to not blink when contact lens are 
                in your eye. A biological predispostion is a innate or inborn biological 
                vectoring that makes certain behaviors easy to learn, examples humans 
                learning to talk, walk, and smile.

                At one time it was thought that instincts existed only in insects but with 
                the latest research on learning it looks like even insects have no 
                instincts.


              • Sonny Williams
                in⋅stinct1   /ˈɪnstɪŋkt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-stingkt] Show IPA
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 3, 2009
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                  in⋅stinct1[in-stingkt] Show IPA Pronunciation
                  –noun
                  1.an inborn pattern of activity or tendency to action common to a given biological species.
                  2.a natural or innate impulse, inclination, or tendency.
                  3.a natural aptitude or gift: an instinct for making money.
                  4.natural intuitive power.
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 10:06 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Evol-Psych] Cross species Friendships - Bunnies & a Pigeon

                  VQuest95 vquest95@aol. com: The mother-instinct seems to be very strong. I
                  assume that it was a female pigeon.
                  >>>>>>>>>>>> >>
                  A major NY Times article in 1910 proved that there were no instincts. An
                  instinct is defined by psychologist since 1910 as a full blow complex
                  behavior pattern that occurs in all members of a species can can not be
                  modified by learning. A reflex is a simple behavior pattern that can be
                  modified by learning for example learning to not blink when contact lens are
                  in your eye. A biological predispostion is a innate or inborn biological
                  vectoring that makes certain behaviors easy to learn, examples humans
                  learning to talk, walk, and smile.

                  At one time it was thought that instincts existed only in insects but with
                  the latest research on learning it looks like even insects have no
                  instincts.

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