Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

[evol-psych] Re: Women's bare flesh in winter 'a bigger turn-on for men'

Expand Messages
  • bowmanthebard
    ... After a few embarrassing misassumptions, young women learn too. The language of unusually short skirts, deep cleavages, etc. takes a while for both sexes
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 2, 2008
      Francine wrote:

      > After a few embarrassing misassumptions, young men learn

      After a few embarrassing misassumptions, young women learn too. The
      "language" of unusually short skirts, deep cleavages, etc. takes a
      while for both sexes to get the hang of.

      All languages are like that. Even the language of saying "no". As
      young adults learn slowly and sometimes painfully, "no" sometimes
      means yes -- and "maybe" nearly always means yes.

      Some years back, feminists adopted the slogan "no means no". They
      seem to have dropped it in recent years -- wisely, as it was so naive
      and over-simplistic that it set back their cause. It also gave the
      impression that many women didn't have much of a grasp of how language
      works, despite their much-vaunted linguistic abilities!

      Jeremy Bowman
    • Edgar Owen
      Francine and Jeremy, I think the both of you are missing the real dynamic here. The skimpiness of female attire is a most importantly a measure of female vs
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 2, 2008
        Francine and Jeremy,

        I think the both of you are missing the real dynamic here. The skimpiness of female attire is a most importantly a measure of female vs male societal power. In our western society nubile young girls can wear quite provocative attire flaunting their sexuality in public with no consequences because women have more power than men. In other words girls can sexually display and the men can't respond naturally which would be a rather intense courting or even a rape response if the promised sex was not delivered. This is because western laws empower women at the expense of men, relative to the historical and biological norm.

        By contrast look at Islamic countries where the men hold the power. In those countries women must cover up to a much greater degree because they have far less power than men compared to the west. If a woman walked down the street in a miniskirt in Afghanistan everyone would take it as natural that she should be raped on the spot. That is because in those countries men hold the power in male-female interactions.

        So again, the skimpiness and provocativeness of female attire is simply an expression of the relative power of females and males in interpersonal interactions.

        As the slogan goes "Girls Rule!" at least in the west.

        Edgar




        On Oct 2, 2008, at 4:26 AM, bowmanthebard wrote:

        Francine wrote:

        > After a few embarrassing misassumptions, young men learn

        After a few embarrassing misassumptions, young women learn too. The 
        "language" of unusually short skirts, deep cleavages, etc. takes a 
        while for both sexes to get the hang of.

        All languages are like that. Even the language of saying "no". As 
        young adults learn slowly and sometimes painfully, "no" sometimes 
        means yes -- and "maybe" nearly always means yes.

        Some years back, feminists adopted the slogan "no means no". They 
        seem to have dropped it in recent years -- wisely, as it was so naive 
        and over-simplistic that it set back their cause. It also gave the 
        impression that many women didn't have much of a grasp of how language 
        works, despite their much-vaunted linguistic abilities!

        Jeremy Bowman


      • Francine A. Burlingame
        ... is cool and comfortable . It gives it a bit of a wash too -- but no sexual message is intended! FBurlingame: It sounds like something I would do if I had
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 2, 2008
          "bowmanthebard" wrote:
          > I find that waving my unclothed manhood around in the Irish drizzle
          is "cool and comfortable". It gives it a bit of a wash too -- but no
          sexual message is intended!

          FBurlingame:

          It sounds like something I would do if I had the "bits and bobs" for
          it. But, like short skirts, it could send the wrong message and it
          irritates your "significant other". (grin)

          "Keeping it cool" on a hot day is good for your sperm...in case you
          have procreative sex on your mind later in the day.

          It is a mystery to me why men wear tight jeans and leather pants when
          protection against accidental injury isn't an issue. Going "commando"
          in soft, loose pants seems the saner choice.
        • Francine A. Burlingame
          ... FBurlingame: I agree with much of what you say, but it is always safest to assume that No means no , even if it means that you lose some opportunities.
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 2, 2008
            "bowmanthebard" wrote:
            >
            > All languages are like that. Even the language of saying "no". As
            > young adults learn slowly and sometimes painfully, "no" sometimes
            > means yes -- and "maybe" nearly always means yes.

            FBurlingame:

            I agree with much of what you say, but it is always safest to assume
            that "No means no", even if it means that you lose some
            opportunities. Life isn't a James Bond movie.

            "Maybe" is classic flirtation. Hot and cold.

            If "maybe" means "no", and the man backs off, he has made the correct
            decision. In many date-rape cases, a non-assertive "maybe" was mis-
            interpreted as a "yes".

            If "maybe" does mean "yes", and the man backs off and acts
            disinterested, the woman will (most probably) chase HIM! He is
            suddenly more valuable because he has become less attainable.

            Backing-off is a win-win for the guy. The real "players" know this
            and use it to their advantage in seduction.
          • Edgar Owen
            Francine, You don t understand the sexual politics. It s OK for women and homosexuals to wear provocative or skimpy clothing because they have the sexual power
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 2, 2008
              Francine,

              You don't understand the sexual politics. It's OK for women and homosexuals to wear provocative or skimpy clothing because they have the sexual power in western society. Straight men would be arrested for dressing that way.

              Girls Rule!

              Edgar



              On Oct 2, 2008, at 10:40 AM, Francine A. Burlingame wrote:

              "bowmanthebard" wrote:
              > I find that waving my unclothed manhood around in the Irish drizzle 
              is "cool and comfortable" . It gives it a bit of a wash too -- but no 
              sexual message is intended!

              FBurlingame:

              It sounds like something I would do if I had the "bits and bobs" for 
              it. But, like short skirts, it could send the wrong message and it 
              irritates your "significant other". (grin)

              "Keeping it cool" on a hot day is good for your sperm...in case you 
              have procreative sex on your mind later in the day. 

              It is a mystery to me why men wear tight jeans and leather pants when 
              protection against accidental injury isn't an issue. Going "commando" 
              in soft, loose pants seems the saner choice.


            • Julienne
              You remind me of my friend s little 3 year old who kept taking off his pants - but he grew out of it. You re not talking about how you re dressing - you re
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 2, 2008
                You remind me of my friend's little 3 year old who kept taking off his pants -
                but he grew out of it.

                You're not talking about how you're dressing - you're talking about not
                dressing at all. Most men these days, unless on a nude beach, when hanging
                loose,
                are either a tad mentally challenged, or being aggressive. Women are likely to
                clear out.

                Julienne


                At 08:03 PM 10/2/2008 -0400, Edgar Owen wrote:
                >Francine,
                >
                >You don't understand the sexual politics. It's OK for women and
                >homosexuals to wear provocative or skimpy clothing because they have the
                >sexual power in western society. Straight men would be arrested for
                >dressing that way.
                >
                >Girls Rule!
                >
                >Edgar
                >
                >
                >
                >On Oct 2, 2008, at 10:40 AM, Francine A. Burlingame wrote:
                >
                >>"bowmanthebard" wrote:
                >> > I find that waving my unclothed manhood around in the Irish drizzle
                >>is "cool and comfortable". It gives it a bit of a wash too -- but no
                >>sexual message is intended!
                >>
                >>FBurlingame:
                >>
                >>It sounds like something I would do if I had the "bits and bobs" for
                >>it. But, like short skirts, it could send the wrong message and it
                >>irritates your "significant other". (grin)
                >>
                >>"Keeping it cool" on a hot day is good for your sperm...in case you
                >>have procreative sex on your mind later in the day.
                >>
                >>It is a mystery to me why men wear tight jeans and leather pants when
                >>protection against accidental injury isn't an issue. Going "commando"
                >>in soft, loose pants seems the saner choice.
                >
                >
                >Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
                >conscientious stupidity. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
                >
                >Join us at Chaos-stars@yahoogroups.com
                >Julienne's New Blog: www.myspace.com/youandthecosmos: The Financial Crisis
                >and Mercury Retrograde
                >Radio: "You and the Cosmos" Tuesdays, 4:30 pm EDST Live Stream WHRW.ORG
              • Joao Sousa
                Francine hit a very important topic which, strangely is little discussed in EP. It s really mysterious. It s not easy to reconcile with the paradigmatic views
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 2, 2008
                  Francine hit a very important topic which, strangely is little
                  discussed in EP. It's really mysterious. It's not easy to reconcile
                  with the paradigmatic views about mating game centered in "displays
                  of quality", "honest signals", etc. How can runaways be attractive?

                  At 16:38 02-10-2008, you wrote:

                  >"bowmanthebard" wrote:
                  > >
                  > > All languages are like that. Even the language of saying "no". As
                  > > young adults learn slowly and sometimes painfully, "no" sometimes
                  > > means yes -- and "maybe" nearly always means yes.
                  >
                  >FBurlingame:
                  >
                  >I agree with much of what you say, but it is always safest to assume
                  >that "No means no", even if it means that you lose some
                  >opportunities. Life isn't a James Bond movie.
                  >
                  >"Maybe" is classic flirtation. Hot and cold.
                  >
                  >If "maybe" means "no", and the man backs off, he has made the correct
                  >decision. In many date-rape cases, a non-assertive "maybe" was mis-
                  >interpreted as a "yes".
                  >
                  >If "maybe" does mean "yes", and the man backs off and acts
                  >disinterested, the woman will (most probably) chase HIM! He is
                  >suddenly more valuable because he has become less attainable.
                  >
                  >Backing-off is a win-win for the guy. The real "players" know this
                  >and use it to their advantage in seduction.
                • bowmanthebard
                  ... What if he wants to have sex with the woman? What if he backs off on that particular occasion, hoping for less ambiguity on a later occasion, but she
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 2, 2008
                    Francine wrote:
                    > Backing-off is a win-win for the guy.

                    What if he wants to have sex with the woman? What if he backs off on
                    that particular occasion, hoping for less ambiguity on a later
                    occasion, but she tragically gets run over by a bus five minutes
                    later?

                    Carpe diem! Or as my father used to say (about everything in life, I
                    don't think he had sex in mind) "if in doubt, say yes!"

                    Jeremy Bowman
                  • bowmanthebard
                    ... I presume you re asking how does playing hard to get work? It s a bit like haggling over a price. In haggling, the object of the game is for the buyer
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 2, 2008
                      Joao asks:

                      > How can runaways be attractive?

                      I presume you're asking how does "playing hard to get" work? It's a
                      bit like "haggling" over a price. In haggling, the object of the game
                      is for the buyer and seller to agree on a price. The seller can bring
                      it up by appearing reluctant to sell, and the buyer can bring it down
                      by appearing reluctant to buy.

                      Jeremy Bowman
                    • Robert Karl Stonjek
                      ... Jeremy Bowman ... RKS: Borat had this problem solved. In his folksy Kazakhstani way, upon seeing an attractive lady, he would say Very nice. How much?
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 3, 2008
                        > Francine wrote:
                        > > Backing-off is a
                        win-win for the guy.
                        >
                        Jeremy Bowman
                        > What if he wants to have sex with the woman? What if he
                        backs off on
                        > that particular occasion, hoping for less ambiguity on a
                        later
                        > occasion, but she tragically gets run over by a bus five minutes
                        > later?
                        >
                        RKS:
                        Borat had this problem solved.  In his folksy Kazakhstani way,
                        upon seeing an attractive lady, he would say "Very nice.  How much?"
                         
                        At least there was no ambiguity...A number of women preferred to get run over by a bus than 'date' Borat.
                         
                        Robert
                      • Robert Karl Stonjek
                        ... RKS: These days, males that play hard to get are simply assumed to be gay, unless the pursuer is gay in which case it is assumed that you are playing hard
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 3, 2008
                          > Joao asks:
                          >
                          > > How can runaways
                          be attractive?
                          > Jeremy Bowman
                          > I presume you're asking how does
                          "playing hard to get" work? It's a
                          > bit like "haggling" over a price. In
                          haggling, the object of the game
                          > is for the buyer and seller to agree
                          on a price. The seller can bring
                          > it up by appearing reluctant to sell,
                          and the buyer can bring it down
                          > by appearing reluctant to buy.
                          >
                          RKS:
                          These days, males that play hard to get are simply assumed to be gay, unless the pursuer is gay in which case it is assumed that you are playing hard to get.
                           
                          Don't women who had STDs play hard to get in order to protect potential male sexual partners?  Try this:
                           
                          "Before I waste eighty bucks on long stem roses, are you playing hard to get because:
                          a) you have the clap and don't want to pass it on to me;
                          b) you prefer women;
                          c) you want to take the upper hand in any subsequent relationship;
                          d) you don't date flashers."
                           
                          Get this handy little quote printed on a business sized card and hand it to the prospective female.  If she writes her phone number on the reverse side then all well and good - if she walks away then nobody gets hurt and annoying ambiguity does not persist - you can move straight on to the next prospective conquest.
                           
                          Robert
                        • Francine A. Burlingame
                          ... Burlingame s theory: It most probably stems from our fear of abandonment, an important survival tool that keeps children close to their parents and keeps
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 3, 2008
                            Joao Sousa wrote:
                            >How can runaways be attractive?

                            Burlingame's theory:

                            It most probably stems from our fear of abandonment, an important
                            survival tool that keeps children close to their parents and keeps
                            tribe members from straying too far from group members.

                            When someone who has been close to us suddenly draws away, we feel a
                            very real visceral clutch. In romantic situations, this biological
                            feeling may be misinterpreted, and we conclude that we must care about
                            (or physically desire) the other person more than we thought.

                            Regarding romantic/sexual manipulation:

                            "If you don't, I know who will" is a classic ploy.
                          • Julienne
                            ... Well, I don t know - at least he wouldn t give a woman a lecture on agentic sex . or lower mate value - which would be more likely to drive a lot of
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 4, 2008
                              At 06:57 PM 10/3/2008 +1000, Robert Karl Stonjek wrote:
                              > Francine wrote:
                              > > Backing-off is a win-win for the guy.
                              >

                              Jeremy Bowman
                              > What if he wants to have sex with the woman? What if he backs off on
                              > that particular occasion, hoping for less ambiguity on a later
                              > occasion, but she tragically gets run over by a bus five minutes
                              > later?
                              >
                              RKS:
                              Borat had this problem solved.  In his folksy Kazakhstani way,

                              upon seeing an attractive lady, he would say "Very nice.  How much?"
                               
                              At least there was no ambiguity...A number of women preferred to get run over by a bus than 'date' Borat.


                              Well, I don't know - at least he wouldn't give a woman a lecture on "agentic sex".
                              or "lower mate value" - which would be more likely to drive a lot of women under
                              a bus. :))

                              And then there's wild green monokini...amazing. :)

                              Julienne


                              Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.  -- Martin Luther King, Jr.

                              Join us at Chaos-stars@yahoogroups.com
                              Julienne's New Blog: www.myspace.com/youandthecosmos: We've Been Robbed! - And More to Come
                              Radio: "You and the Cosmos" Tuesdays, 4:30 pm EDST Live Stream WHRW.ORG

                            • Julienne
                              ... Excellent point, Francine. If you want to keep someone, even if not continually, the thing to do is to come on like gangbusters, madly in love, etc., then
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 4, 2008
                                At 01:55 PM 10/3/2008 +0000, Francine A. Burlingame wrote:
                                >Joao Sousa wrote:
                                > >How can runaways be attractive?
                                >
                                >Burlingame's theory:
                                >
                                >It most probably stems from our fear of abandonment, an important
                                >survival tool that keeps children close to their parents and keeps
                                >tribe members from straying too far from group members.
                                >
                                >When someone who has been close to us suddenly draws away, we feel a
                                >very real visceral clutch. In romantic situations, this biological
                                >feeling may be misinterpreted, and we conclude that we must care about
                                >(or physically desire) the other person more than we thought.
                                >
                                >Regarding romantic/sexual manipulation:
                                >
                                >"If you don't, I know who will" is a classic ploy.


                                Excellent point, Francine.

                                If you want to keep someone, even if not continually, the thing to do is
                                to come on like gangbusters, madly in love, etc., then back away with one
                                of those tried and true, "You're too good for me...", or "I need some space for
                                a while", lines. Then, some months later, come back again, "Oh, I missed you,
                                can't go on without you...", etc. The abandoned one will be extremely relieved
                                and isn't so hard to woo back. But then you repeat it...and maybe repeat it
                                again.
                                In the meantime, between times, you continue on with others, with whom you may
                                well be doing the same thing.

                                Of course, this isn't very good for stability, and is quite cruel - but it's a
                                ploy of the sociopath, or just the socially handicapped, who are afraid to do
                                more than dip their toes into intimacy.

                                If you find one of these in your life - run!

                                If you are one of these - how sad for you.

                                Julienne



                                Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
                                conscientious stupidity. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.

                                Join us at Chaos-stars@yahoogroups.com
                                Julienne's New Blog: www.myspace.com/youandthecosmos: We've Been Robbed! -
                                And More to Come
                                Radio: "You and the Cosmos" Tuesdays, 4:30 pm EDST Live Stream WHRW.ORG
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.