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[evol-psych] Re: BBC was Non-science like astrology unlawful in the UK unless pu

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  • bowmanthebard
    ... Political words such as liberal and conservative generally don t have tight scientific definitions, which helps to explain why they are so often used
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 1, 2008
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      Wade wrote:

      > Unfortunately for your argument, unlike "insects"
      > "politically correct" does not have a tight
      > scientific definition.

      Political words such as 'liberal' and 'conservative' generally don't
      have tight scientific definitions, which helps to explain why they are
      so often used wrongly, or at least have sloppy popular usages.

      To the best of my knowledge, the term 'politically correct' was
      originally used as a euphemism for being prepared to toe the Bolshevik
      Party line.

      Like most euphemisms, there's a sinister irony to it, as someone who
      was not "correct" was not simply considered "a bit silly" for being in
      error, but a suitable subject for severe penalties, even death.

      Personally, I think it sounds a bit silly when the left use it against
      the right -- like child who has been called stupid replying "YOU'RE
      stupid!". That's because at the moment, the left is consideranly less
      tolerant of dissenting opinion than the right. Internal intolerance
      explains the endless splits on the left, and the apparent need for the
      "affirmation" of agreement. It's the left who are censoring forms of
      expression at the moment, not the right. (If you diagree with this,
      please give examples!)

      I'm on the left, by the way, as far as fiscal policies (etc.) are
      concerned, but the rest of the left would drop me like a hot potato. I
      couldn't give a hoot about staying "onside" on any issue at all, and
      I'll call a spade a spade, especially if I'm told not to.

      Jeremy
    • steve moxon
      Wade is quite wrong here. PC is most certainly not a term that has emerged or been hijacked for use as a derogation. It is clearly a political philosophy of
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 1, 2008
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        Wade is quite wrong here. 'PC' is most certainly not a term that has emerged or been hijacked for use as a derogation. It is clearly a political philosophy of the Left, and one that has a history over many decades -- the best part of a century. The use of 'PC' to label this political philosophy is itself from the political Left. That it has come to have negative connotations is because the poltical philosophy is itself a highly negative one. This was first realised by factions within the political Left, which is when the term 'PC' was first used ironically.
        Obviously, those against political Left totalitarianism -- both conservatve and those against ideology generically -- likewse are going to use the term.
        Wade can try to duck the reality as much as he likes, but it doesn't wash.
         
        Steve Moxon (author of The Woman Racket: The new science explaining how the sexes relate at work in play and in society. Out through Imprint Academic. Now in paperback. Details & extracts: http://www.imprint- academic. com/moxon )
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 6:41 PM
        Subject: Re: [evol-psych] Re: BBC was Non-science like astrology unlawful in the UK unless pu


        Wade wrote:

        > I suspect there is a tendency to call
        > whichever you agree with common sense
        > or avoidance of racism and whichever
        > you disagree with Political Correctness.


         

        Jeremy Wrote

        There is that tendency, but it doesn't imply the term is meaningless,
        or that many people are simply using the term the wrong way. (Most
        people call mites "insects", even though they're arachnids.)

        Political correctness is aimed at promoting one set of desires by
        disallowing the use of language, art, etc., that supposedly act as
        vehicles for another set of desires. Accusations of "political
        correctness" are not properly applied to people who are not trying to
        manipulate thought by limiting forms of expression like that.

        Of course, it is highly questionable whether non-exposure to
        particular kinds of language, art, etc. is capable of shaping a
        person's desires. As part of a "blank slate" way of thinking, it's yet
        another example of the left making a hash of things.

        Wade



























        Unfortunately for your argument, unlike "insects" "politically correct" does not have
        a tight scientific definition.  Instead it is a concept popularised by various factions over
        the last 30 years or so, which has had an evolving use and therefore meaning.

        Over the last 10 years or so it has been requisitioned by those primarily on the right of the
        political spectrum as a pejorative label for aspects of the trend towards racial, sexual and other types of "egalitarianism".

        Granted that censoring people form using various linguistic expressions is an important element of this, but so to
        are various PC policies and legislation and other non linguistic factors.

        In my view, it a clever phrase with which to challenge this trend.  I agree with (I suspect) most of the people on this list, that the trend towards PC policies and regulations is something that needs to be challenged as it has resulted both in a highly dangerous climate of censorship and intimidation and a situation in the west where in many ways white males are a disadvantaged subgroup.

        My problem with the use of this phrase in this group is that it doesn't tell us much. It's like someone banging on that they are against murder. Yes , so is  everyone, the question is what counts as murder and what counts as other forms of killing eg abortions, decisions by President Bush etc etc,  ie the interesting question is where does one draw the line.  Similarly everyone is against PC , but what counts as PC, and what is more correctly labelled racism/sexism.

        Wade




         


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      • Wade Allsopp
        ... *Wade *I would agree with you that trying to combat racism, sexism and discrimination against gays, people of other religions, people from non elite social
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 1, 2008
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          2008/6/1 steve moxon <stevemoxon3@...>:

          Wade is quite wrong here. 'PC' is most certainly not a term that has emerged or been hijacked for use as a derogation. It is clearly a political philosophy of the Left, and one that has a history over many decades -- the best part of a century. The use of 'PC' to label this political philosophy is itself from the political Left. That it has come to have negative connotations is because the poltical philosophy is itself a highly negative one. This was first realised by factions within the political Left, which is when the term 'PC' was first used ironically.
          Obviously, those against political Left totalitarianism -- both conservatve and those against ideology generically -- likewse are going to use the term.
          Wade can try to duck the reality as much as he likes, but it doesn't wash.












          Wade

          I would agree with you that trying to combat racism, sexism and discrimination against gays,
          people of other religions, people from non elite social backgrounds etc has been part of
          the "Left's" political agenda fro the best part of a century. Presumably you are in favour of
          at least some of these changes? Such as female and ethnic emancipation, the opening of a
          wider range of careers to those from different social groups, gays in the armed forces?  etc.

          The question is where in your opinion is the dividing line between anti discrimination policies (which
          I presume you are sympathetic to) and Politically Correct policies which i take it you are antipathetic too?

          My guess is that you will simply define all policies behaviour which you are in favour of as being anti discriminatory and those which
          you are against as being Politically Correct. 

          If this is not the case, then please spell out what you regard as a matter of political correctness and what you regard as anti discrimination?

          Wade

          Wade



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