Re: [evol-psych] Discussing America....
- At 07:56 AM 1/1/2008 -0500, Edgar Owen wrote:
This is true - the bombing of Dresden was one of these.
Jeremy, and Julienne,
And worst of all, are you aware that the US deliberately as a matter of policy committed the worst war crimes of the century, a fact that was tearfully admitted by MacNamara (one of the architects) in the documentary 'The Fog of War'? The US deliberately bombed Japanese civilian centers one after the other in an orchestrated attempt to inflict the maximum civilian casualties. Hiroshima is only one of numerous examples. The firebombing of Tokyo and other cities with incendiary bombs killed hundreds and hundreds of thousands of civilians. These were not 'collateral damage' inflicted during attacks on military targets, they were deliberately targeted civilians.
The same policy was used widely in Europe as well as civilian centers were attacked as well as military.
The British told Churchill they didn't want to bomb
German civilians, but Churchill went ahead anyway. The
idea was to terrify the civilians so that they would
influence the governments (males) to stop the wars.
Killing of non-combatants is a horrific and just about
constant arm of the psychology of war. It also gives the
lie to the idea of a "noble" war.
Of course there were no war crime prosecutions of Allies after the war. The winners write the rules.
That's what the Bush government is counting on now.
"Art washes away from the soul, the dust of everyday life." ~Picasso"
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That and his violent and bloody, he was a despot of course, response to the Shia/Kurdish uprisings after Desert Storm account for the bulk, up to 2/3 according to declassified Intelligence analysis, of the ‘300,000’ figured attributed to Saddam and the Baathists’ 35 yrs in power to justify/explain the 2003 invasion.
Considerable truth to your post below though a few questionable statements.
A quick note on Saddam 'gassing his own people', which is often used as one of the supposedly most horrible things he did. The Kurds were in revolt and have always wanted an independent state. Do you think for one second that the US government faced with the revolt of a third of its people, would not use military force to 'kill its own people'? They wouldn't use gas, just bombs and bullets, but to me how you kill someone is irrelevant. There is really no nice way to kill someone.
Anyone remember the Civil War? Didn't the US then 'kill its own people' right and left?
As you say, the hypocrisy is endless.
Let's not forget that the Kurds tried to side with Iran during the Iran-Iraq war and allowed at least one invasion of Iraq (in the course of the war) to quietly pass through its territory (a raid by the Iran side). Some of the gas attacks were against the Iranians who were in Kurdistan, the last (1988) was most probably just payback.
The Kurds would be invaded by Turkey the minute they had independence, of that could have been no doubt. If Southern Kurdistan became independent then there would be a natural push for Northern Kurdistan (Southern Turkey) to follow suit and the Turks wouldn't allow that for a minute - invasion would have be a necessary preventive measure (and the oil? - oh that would be merely coincidental...)
Robert Karl Stonjek