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Re: [evol-psych] Re: Warfare as cooperative behavior?

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  • R A FONDA
    ... that the Aryan tradition exemplified by the earliest parts of the RV had been heavily influenced by indigenous doctrines in the era that Buddha lived, as
    Message 1 of 240 , Oct 1 11:56 AM
      I don't think we can give one date for the writing-down of the RV, and I suspect the codification process of the oral tradition STARTED almost a thousand years before the date you cited, but I completely agree with the last part of this:
       
      > RigVeda was written in 1700BC, which would put the arrival of Aryans to even further back. <
       
      I will take your word for the Krishna dates, and I have read plausible dates of 2500 yrs ago for the Buddha. So this supports my view:
       
      > Buddha was born more than 1000 years after the Aryans comfortably
      settled in India; around 500 years after Krishna--a dark skinned guy--was made into the most important of our Gods. <
       
      that the Aryan tradition exemplified by the earliest parts of the RV had been heavily influenced by indigenous doctrines in the era that Buddha lived, as suggested by the ascendancy of a god depicted as dark-skinned. So far, we are in agreement. You seem to take that pre-Buddhist deification of Krishna as an early example of Hinduism, and, again, we agree. As far as I can see, our only disagreement is that you think the Buddha INCORPORATED those indigenous spiritual influences in the religion named after him (you said: "Buddhism came from Hinduism") while I believe he attempted to PURGE such influences. I will certainly admit that Buddhism absorbed indigenous influences AFTER his death, in many places: Tantra, as just one example.
       
      I believe that classical Chan/Zen epitomized a 'pure' form of Buddhism. By which I mean that the doctrine rejected any 'gods' (other than a vague referent to the "One Mind") or deification of the Buddha himself. The emphasis is on personal EXPERIENCE of fundamental reality (Sunyata, or voidness) and the contrast with Hinduism is stark. But, as I have mentioned in other posts, many kinds of Buddhism have evolved since his death.
       
      RAF
    • Julienne
      ... There are U.S. females being murdered in this attack on Iraq. Julienne Cling to the Wreckage - Barry Sonnenfeld Julienne s Blog:
      Message 240 of 240 , Oct 6 9:40 AM
        At 09:33 AM 10/6/2007 -0400, Mark Hubey wrote:


        1) Maybe they had female liberation back then too
        2) He said "the first person"(...)

        So now the story can be understood in a more sophisticated mode, e.g.
        everyone can be sacrificed (e.g. war)
        for the good of the whole (e.g. nation). We have gone back to
        sacrificing young males again. IT was tried again
        in modern Israel (drafting females and sending them to the front) and
        they gave up on it very quickly. For one
        thing, if the opposing fighters knew they were fighting females they
        refused to give up no matter what, so they
        caused even more problems. First there was the shame of surrendering to
        females, then there was the fruits of victory if they won!

        There are U.S. females being murdered in this attack
        on Iraq.

        Julienne

        Cling to the Wreckage - Barry Sonnenfeld
        Julienne's Blog: www.myspace.com/youandthecosmos. New Blog: Addiction
        Radio: "You and the Cosmos" WHRWFM.org, 90.5 FM, 4:30pm, EDST, Wednesdays
        Join us at EvolPsych@yahoogroups.com

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