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Re: [evol-psych] Men bigger whingers when sick

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  • Haci-Murat Hubey
    What people think is conditioned by society. Just because males think they have it better does not mean that they do. All the things that males are good at
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 2, 2007
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      What people think is conditioned by society.

      Just because males think they have it better
      does not mean that they do.

      All the things that males are good at (compared
      to females) have become illegal, hence there are
      many many more males in jail than females.

      The laws are sexist. Males have been taught to
      behave in ways that are harmful and dangerous
      to their health. All this because during the
      first few years of life females have total
      control over males. This is the primary axiom
      of dribble-down-Freudianism, and introspective
      psychology (e.g. philosophy that pretends to be
      science).

      Females are a majority. The majority is the
      cause of the ills of the minority. That is one
      of the axioms of the dribble-down-Marxism.


      The laws favor females. Most inmates are males.
      The females have convinced males to put other
      males in jail to keep females safe and out of
      harm's way so they can live long and stay out
      of jail.

      Males die earlier in almost every country
      except for places like Saudi Arabia and
      Egypt.

      If you want equality, we should change the laws
      until half the inmates are females. We should
      change the laws until females start dying
      about 8 years earlier.

      Either we are equal or we are not.





      Julienne wrote:
      > Hi All,
      >
      > Other studies in the US have shown similar results, with
      > women getting the short stick when it comes to sympathy
      > and actual help when sick with other illnesses as well,
      > including heart attacks.
      >
      > Julienne
      >
      > Welcome to The Sydney Morning Herald.
      >
      > www.smh.com.au
      >
      > Men bigger whingers when sick
      >
      > Three in four Australians think women cope better than men when sick with
      > cold or flu.
      >
      > May 30, 2007 - 12:25PM
      >
      > Australian men are more likely than women to complain if they have a cold
      > or flu - and to seek sympathy for their ailment from their partners.
      >
      > A nationwide Newspoll study surveyed 1,200 respondents aged 18 and over
      > about how well males and females coped with cold and flu.
      >
      > The study found Australian men were more likely than women to complain,
      > seek sympathy and expect their partner to look after them when they take sick.
      >
      > It also found three in four Australians think women cope better than men
      > when sick with cold or flu.
      >
      > Ninety per cent of women think women cope better than men, and 60 per cent
      > of males agree with them.
      >
      > Sixty per cent of men surveyed think men are more likely to complain about
      > how they feel and 65 per cent of males think men are more likely to expect
      > their partner to look after them.
      >
      > The study, conducted by phone, also found only 30 per cent of Australian
      > women admit they get cranky or irritated with their partner when they were
      > sick with a cold or flu.
      >
      > "These results support the view often expressed by women that, overall,
      > females are better than males when it comes to coping with being sick with
      > a cold or flu," clinical psychologist Catherine Campbell said.
      >
      > "The surprise is that this research suggests that men actually agree with
      > this," she said.
      >
      > The study also found 70 per cent of Australians think their partner should
      > buy or arrange medication, take over household responsibilities, organise
      > food and drink, and 'check-in' with them regularly when they are sick.
      >
      > Only 32 per cent of women said their partner made a fuss over them when
      > they were sick with cold or flu.
      >
      > "Even though Australian females thought care and support was important, the
      > research suggests they don't get this from their partner," Ms Campbell said.
      >
      > The symptoms of a cold include a runny or blocked nose, sneezing, a minor
      > throat irritation, mild fever, blocked ears and coloured mucus or nasal
      > discharge.
      >
      > Flu symptoms include high fever, dry cough, shivering, sweating, irritation
      > in the throat and severe muscle aches.
      > When news happens: send photos, videos & tip-offs to 0424 SMS SMH (+61 424
      > 767 764), or email us.
      >
      > http://www.smh.com.au/news/relationships/men-bigger-whingers-when-sick/2007/05/30/1180205303524.html
      >
      > As we must account for every idle word, so must we account for every idle
      > silence. Benjamin Franklin
      > Julienne's Blog: www.myspace.com/youandthecosmos. Radio: "You and the
      > Cosmos" WHRWFM.org
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Edgar Owen
      Hi Julienne, Perhaps because the female should be naturally nurturing and caring but modern women aren t, so the man tries whining to attempt to stimulate a
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 2, 2007
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        Hi Julienne,

        Perhaps because the female should be naturally nurturing and caring
        but modern women aren't, so the man tries whining to attempt to
        stimulate a maternal response which is his last resort to be card for?

        Edgar


        On Jun 2, 2007, at 12:13 AM, Julienne wrote:

        > Hi All,
        >
        > Other studies in the US have shown similar results, with
        > women getting the short stick when it comes to sympathy
        > and actual help when sick with other illnesses as well,
        > including heart attacks.
        >
        > Julienne
        >
        > Welcome to The Sydney Morning Herald.
        >
        > www.smh.com.au
        >
        > Men bigger whingers when sick
        >
        > Three in four Australians think women cope better than men when
        > sick with
        > cold or flu.
        >
        > May 30, 2007 - 12:25PM
        >
        > Australian men are more likely than women to complain if they have
        > a cold
        > or flu - and to seek sympathy for their ailment from their partners.
        >
        > A nationwide Newspoll study surveyed 1,200 respondents aged 18 and
        > over
        > about how well males and females coped with cold and flu.
        >
        > The study found Australian men were more likely than women to
        > complain,
        > seek sympathy and expect their partner to look after them when they
        > take sick.
        >
        > It also found three in four Australians think women cope better
        > than men
        > when sick with cold or flu.
        >
        > Ninety per cent of women think women cope better than men, and 60
        <Snip>
      • idn17
        I beg to civilly differ, I know many caring modern women... but that s another topic isn t it! In my experience I have mainly observed that many men don t like
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 3, 2007
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          I beg to civilly differ, I know many caring modern women... but
          that's another topic isn't it!

          In my experience I have mainly observed that many men don't like to
          be hovered over and cared for too much when ill even to the point of
          getting angry when the woman simply asks if they feel any better.
          And conversely, when women are sick they would love to have someone
          hover over them, bring them tea, prop up the pillows, do the dishes
          and other tasks, but the men instead leave them alone. Could it be
          the men are projecting what THEY would want, and therefore leave the
          woman alone and do not hover?

          I live with two dogs, a mother and daughter team. The mother dog,
          she knows when I am upset or don't feel well and tries to comfort
          me. She hovers, jumps in my lap, kisses me, whines in sympathy at
          times. The daughter, and she is not a pup, she couldn't give a hoot.
          As long as she gets her food so what. So maybe it is the maternal
          thing, so the question, Edgar... these uncaring modern women, are
          they primarily NOT mothers, and the ones you know who ARE mothers,
          are they more caring? Just saying take a few minutes to think about
          it and let us know if this is maybe true? Maybe motherhood releases
          a more caring streak?
          iris


          --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen
          <edgarowen@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Julienne,
          >
          > Perhaps because the female should be naturally nurturing and
          caring
          > but modern women aren't, so the man tries whining to attempt to
          > stimulate a maternal response which is his last resort to be card
          for?
          >
          > Edgar
          >
          >
          > On Jun 2, 2007, at 12:13 AM, Julienne wrote:
          >
          > > Hi All,
          > >
          > > Other studies in the US have shown similar results, with
          > > women getting the short stick when it comes to sympathy
          > > and actual help when sick with other illnesses as well,
          > > including heart attacks.
          > >
          > > Julienne
          > >
          > > Welcome to The Sydney Morning Herald.
          > >
          > > www.smh.com.au
          > >
          > > Men bigger whingers when sick
          > >
          > > Three in four Australians think women cope better than men when
          > > sick with
          > > cold or flu.
          > >
          > > May 30, 2007 - 12:25PM
          > >
          > > Australian men are more likely than women to complain if they
          have
          > > a cold
          > > or flu - and to seek sympathy for their ailment from their
          partners.
          > >
          > > A nationwide Newspoll study surveyed 1,200 respondents aged 18
          and
          > > over
          > > about how well males and females coped with cold and flu.
          > >
          > > The study found Australian men were more likely than women to
          > > complain,
          > > seek sympathy and expect their partner to look after them when
          they
          > > take sick.
          > >
          > > It also found three in four Australians think women cope better
          > > than men
          > > when sick with cold or flu.
          > >
          > > Ninety per cent of women think women cope better than men, and
          60
          > <Snip>
          >
        • idn17
          What?? I could give at least as many reasons how men control women and have for eons. Didn t we recently just get the vote and the right to own property?
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 3, 2007
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            What?? I could give at least as many reasons how men control women
            and have for eons. Didn't we recently just get the vote and the
            right to own property? Historically speaking I mean by "recently".
            Look at divorces, which thrust way more women than men into poverty.

            If men would violate women or other men for that matter lock them
            up. If females do the same lock them up.

            iris


            --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, Haci-Murat Hubey
            <HubeyH@...> wrote:
            >
            > What people think is conditioned by society.
            >
            > Just because males think they have it better
            > does not mean that they do.
            >
            > All the things that males are good at (compared
            > to females) have become illegal, hence there are
            > many many more males in jail than females.
            >
            > The laws are sexist. Males have been taught to
            > behave in ways that are harmful and dangerous
            > to their health. All this because during the
            > first few years of life females have total
            > control over males. This is the primary axiom
            > of dribble-down-Freudianism, and introspective
            > psychology (e.g. philosophy that pretends to be
            > science).
            >
            > Females are a majority. The majority is the
            > cause of the ills of the minority. That is one
            > of the axioms of the dribble-down-Marxism.
            >
            >
            > The laws favor females. Most inmates are males.
            > The females have convinced males to put other
            > males in jail to keep females safe and out of
            > harm's way so they can live long and stay out
            > of jail.
            >
            > Males die earlier in almost every country
            > except for places like Saudi Arabia and
            > Egypt.
            >
            > If you want equality, we should change the laws
            > until half the inmates are females. We should
            > change the laws until females start dying
            > about 8 years earlier.
            >
            > Either we are equal or we are not.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            <Snip>
          • Haci-Murat Hubey
            So may I presume that one would not argue from unequal results that there is some kind of a nefarious scheme of sexist discrimination? ...
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 3, 2007
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              So may I presume that one would not argue from unequal results
              that there is some kind of a nefarious scheme of sexist
              discrimination?



              idn17 wrote:
              > What?? I could give at least as many reasons how men control women
              > and have for eons. Didn't we recently just get the vote and the
              > right to own property? Historically speaking I mean by "recently".
              > Look at divorces, which thrust way more women than men into poverty.
              >
              > If men would violate women or other men for that matter lock them
              > up. If females do the same lock them up.
              >
              > iris
              >
              >
              > --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, Haci-Murat Hubey
              > <HubeyH@...> wrote:
              >
              <Snip>
            • Julienne
              ... Hi, Iris, I think that most men LOVE to be hovered over. However, I think they think they aren t supposed to. I remember being crushed as a teenager when
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 3, 2007
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                At 12:17 AM 6/4/2007 +0000, idn17 wrote:
                >I beg to civilly differ, I know many caring modern women... but
                >that's another topic isn't it!
                >
                >In my experience I have mainly observed that many men don't like to
                >be hovered over and cared for too much when ill even to the point of
                >getting angry when the woman simply asks if they feel any better.
                >And conversely, when women are sick they would love to have someone
                >hover over them, bring them tea, prop up the pillows, do the dishes
                >and other tasks, but the men instead leave them alone. Could it be
                >the men are projecting what THEY would want, and therefore leave the
                >woman alone and do not hover?

                Hi, Iris,

                I think that most men LOVE to be hovered over. However, I think they
                think they aren't supposed to. I remember being crushed as a teenager
                when one of my school mates broke his arm. About 6 of us were in a car,
                and I sympathised, and he became quite irritated - reacted very
                strongly that he didn't need sympathy from anyone. I was so shocked
                at the force of his response that I have remembered that to this day.

                My father looked after my mother, but when they both became very ill,
                and indeed died the same year, I was the one to look after them.
                My mother was demanding and angry, and nothing was enough, as she
                was used to being looked after by him and was, I think, angry that
                he wasn't there for her when he became so ill. My father was very
                grateful, and I looked after him pretty much by myself for nearly
                2 years.

                >I live with two dogs, a mother and daughter team. The mother dog,
                >she knows when I am upset or don't feel well and tries to comfort
                >me. She hovers, jumps in my lap, kisses me, whines in sympathy at
                >times. The daughter, and she is not a pup, she couldn't give a hoot.
                >As long as she gets her food so what. So maybe it is the maternal
                >thing, so the question, Edgar... these uncaring modern women, are
                >they primarily NOT mothers, and the ones you know who ARE mothers,
                >are they more caring? Just saying take a few minutes to think about
                >it and let us know if this is maybe true? Maybe motherhood releases
                >a more caring streak?

                I have similar experiences with my animals. I think it
                is sometimes about maturity and the innate or acquired ability
                to nurture. Some humans, and some animals, are nurturing, others
                not so much. I was thinking today about one of my 7 month old
                cats. She lost her brother when he was about 3 months old, and
                she went into a period of grieving and withdrawal. Her grandmother
                was a licker - always LOVED to lick me - so much so that sometimes
                it was almost annoying - though in general I loved it as I am a
                very touchy feely person. To pull all of this together, this
                little girl has now started to relate to a new group of 3 month
                old kittens. She was very scared of them at first - maybe thought
                they were going to die, too. However, she now plays with them happily
                and has come out of her shell. And...she has started to lick like
                crazy. The minute she sees me she starts licking; my legs, my face,
                my ears, my arms. She's not yet a mother. I think that life experience
                and maturity and genetic inheritance of personality all play a part
                in creating both general patterns and individual characteristics.

                Same with human beings. Different groups or cultures may have
                certain expectations, but beyond that is the genetic pattern
                and individual character which may trump even the culture.

                Julienne
              • Edgar Owen
                Iris, Most mammalian females have a strong maternal and caring instinct even prior to childbearing. Witness little girls and dolls, and the widespread interest
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 4, 2007
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                  Iris,

                  Most mammalian females have a strong maternal and caring instinct even prior to childbearing. Witness little girls and dolls, and the widespread interest of adolescent female animals inĀ familial infants. The problem adult men have is competing with or channelling this almost obsessive instinct to their own care when they need it. Females often seem deficient in this category. Especially those many modern western women who have developed an adversarial complaining attitude themselves. Therefore the male must whine and act infantile to elicit the maternal response and receive the care he needs.

                  Edgar


                  On Jun 3, 2007, at 8:17 PM, idn17 wrote:

                  I beg to civilly differ, I know many caring modern women... but
                  that's another topic isn't it!

                  In my experience I have mainly observed that many men don't like to
                  be hovered over and cared for too much when ill even to the point of
                  getting angry when the woman simply asks if they feel any better.
                  And conversely, when women are sick they would love to have someone
                  hover over them, bring them tea, prop up the pillows, do the dishes
                  and other tasks, but the men instead leave them alone. Could it be
                  the men are projecting what THEY would want, and therefore leave the
                  woman alone and do not hover?

                  I live with two dogs, a mother and daughter team. The mother dog,
                  she knows when I am upset or don't feel well and tries to comfort
                  me. She hovers, jumps in my lap, kisses me, whines in sympathy at
                  times. The daughter, and she is not a pup, she couldn't give a hoot.
                  As long as she gets her food so what. So maybe it is the maternal
                  thing, so the question, Edgar... these uncaring modern women, are
                  they primarily NOT mothers, and the ones you know who ARE mothers,
                  are they more caring? Just saying take a few minutes to think about
                  it and let us know if this is maybe true? Maybe motherhood releases
                  a more caring streak?
                  iris

                  --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen
                  <edgarowen@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Julienne,
                  >
                  > Perhaps because the female should be naturally nurturing and
                  caring
                  > but modern women aren't, so the man tries whining to attempt to
                  > stimulate a maternal response which is his last resort to be card
                  for?
                  >
                  > Edgar
                  >
                  >
                  > On Jun 2, 2007, at 12:13 AM, Julienne wrote:
                  >
                  > > Hi All,
                  > >
                  > > Other studies in the US have shown similar results, with
                  > > women getting the short stick when it comes to sympathy
                  > > and actual help when sick with other illnesses as well,
                  > > including heart attacks.
                  > >
                  > > Julienne
                  > >
                  > > Welcome to The Sydney Morning Herald.
                  > >
                  > > www.smh.com.au
                  > >
                  > > Men bigger whingers when sick
                  > >
                  > > Three in four Australians think women cope better than men when
                  > > sick with
                  > > cold or flu.
                  > >
                  > > May 30, 2007 - 12:25PM
                  > >
                  > > Australian men are more likely than women to complain if they
                  have
                  > > a cold
                  > > or flu - and to seek sympathy for their ailment from their
                  partners.
                  > >
                  > > A nationwide Newspoll study surveyed 1,200 respondents aged 18
                  and
                  > > over
                  > > about how well males and females coped with cold and flu.
                  > >
                  > > The study found Australian men were more likely than women to
                  > > complain,
                  > > seek sympathy and expect their partner to look after them when
                  they
                  > > take sick.
                  > >
                  > > It also found three in four Australians think women cope better
                  > > than men
                  > > when sick with cold or flu.
                  > >
                  > > Ninety per cent of women think women cope better than men, and
                  60
                  > <Snip>
                  >


                • Julienne
                  ... My first son used to take two shopping bags of his dollies to nursery school. As I wasn t as concerned as many might be about his masculinity, I let him.
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jun 4, 2007
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                    At 11:15 AM 6/4/2007 -0400, Edgar Owen wrote:
                    >Iris,
                    >
                    >Most mammalian females have a strong maternal and caring instinct even
                    >prior to childbearing.

                    My first son used to take two shopping bags of his "dollies" to
                    nursery school. As I wasn't as concerned as many might be about his
                    masculinity, I let him. When the nursery school complained, I changed
                    nursery schools. If we didn't discourage them, boys might also develop
                    this instinct to nurture - certainly there are more men these days who
                    do have this mature and empathetic trait and manifest it. There are
                    also a number of girls who don't have it, and women who don't want
                    children at all - more and more these days when the option is more
                    of an accessible choice.

                    >Witness little girls and dolls, and the widespread interest of adolescent
                    >female animals in familial infants. The problem adult men have is
                    >competing with or channelling this almost obsessive instinct to their own
                    >care when they need it.

                    Maybe if they gave it more, they'd receive it. I have a male friend who
                    regales me with his miseries whenever he has a health crisis, but doesn't
                    even seem to notice when I'm at death's door. I have stopped responding to
                    his crises.

                    >Females often seem deficient in this category. Especially those many
                    >modern western women who have developed an adversarial complaining
                    >attitude themselves.

                    Could you name 3 of these women, please? I think that we're into post
                    modern now,
                    anyway.

                    > Therefore the male must whine and act infantile to elicit the maternal
                    > response and receive the care he needs.

                    Oh, yeah - there's nothing sexier and more attractive than a man wheezing
                    and whining - for attention - that same guy who didn't want to get you
                    chicken soup when you were laid out flat. Have you read Moliere's,
                    "The Imaginary Invalid"? The whining male is about as sexy as
                    shingles. So is the man who thinks women have an "almost obsessive
                    instinct" to nurture. If men would only develop that same sense
                    of responsibility for caring for others, They'd have all the care
                    they need.

                    Do unto others, you know? :))

                    Julienne
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