Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Fw: [evol-psych] RE: News: Birds choose sweet-smelling mates

Expand Messages
  • hibbsa
    As predicted, you avoided the specific challenge. As you do all specific challenges. You are so pathetic Kohl. You spam this list with post after post,
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 13, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      As predicted, you avoided the specific challenge. As you do all specific challenges. You are so pathetic Kohl. You spam this list with post after post, basically because no one else anywhere else wants anything to do with you.

      No one wants you here either. And your fantasy that it's all because you speak the truth and everyone else is bad...is the most pathetic thing about you. Time and again you avoid hard questions. Use insults and put downs. It's you, you daft bugger, you're the bad guy. And that's why no one wants you.

      --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, james kohl <jvkohl@...> wrote:
      >
      > hibbsa,
      >
      > I cited the literature on beak morphogenesis in finches before. It is clearly nutrient-dependent and pheromone-controlled as is the adaptive evolution of birds, including pigeons with theirdifferent colored head crests. The availability of nutrients changes the beak shape and even changes plumage color.  Your attack is as ridiculous as the anonymous fool's. Both of you should start reading the current literature instead of wasting time challenging me onbiological facts. I've followedDanielle Whittaker's work  for several years, and you can't even grasp its significance now. That's pitiful, as is your attack on me.
      >
      >  
      > James V. Kohl
      > Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
      > Independent researcher
      > Kohl, J.V. (2013) Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 3: 20553.
      > Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Forwarded Message -----
      > >From: hibbsa <hibbsa@...>
      > >To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
      > >Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 11:14 AM
      > >Subject: Re: [evol-psych] RE: News: Birds choose sweet-smelling mates
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > 
      > >cart before the horse...yeah I get it. So it's like, the bird had no beak to start with? Is that how you get around anonymous' problem?
      > >
      > >So your nutrient/pheromone thing changes the new beak shape. And then we have to entertain the idea the beak shape is good for one food and not another.
      > >
      > >So how does the nutrient/pheromone model explain how the beak shape is changed again in the future to that other food that currently it cannot eat?
      > >
      > >You're not that daft that you couldn't see the significance of his point. Which means the barrage of insults you threw at him must have been part of an attempt to avoid and bury.
      > >
      > >You won't answer the question even now that it has been spelled out, because your model doesn't have an answer.
      > >
      > >The fact I can sit here and predict you won't answer something, predict your behaviour, predict what strategies of avoidance you might use, puts you in a little box and makes you very small.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >--- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, james kohl wrote:
      > >>
      > >> I hope that others find it as ridiculous as I do that you are suggesting beak morphology "affects the food that the bird is able to eat in the first place" at the same time I am saying that what birds eat epigenetically effects their beak morphology. Unfortunately, some others may not recognize your "cart before the horse" scenario because it is common to their beliefs about mutation-driven evolution.  Thanks for exemplifying what I refer to as a scientifically illiterate response. Did you stop to think at all about the fact that morphogenesis in all species is nutrient-dependent (and pheromone-controlled)?
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>  
      > >> James V. Kohl
      > >> Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
      > >> Independent researcher
      > >> Kohl, J.V. (2013) Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model. Socioaffective Neuroscience Psychology, 3: 20553.
      > >> Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience Psychology, 2: 17338.
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • james kohl
      hibbsa, You seem upset because I HAVE detailed too much in the context of my model. Is that why you continue your attacks here? Clearly, if no one else wanted
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 13, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        hibbsa,

        You seem upset because I HAVE detailed too much in the context of my model. Is that why you continue your attacks here? Clearly, if no one else wanted anything to do with me, I would not have my comments repeatedly accepted on the "Science" site. Here is my second (pending submission) on the topic Evolution Heresy? Epigenetics Underlies Heritable Plant Traits

        Dear James V. Kohl

        Thank you for submitting your comment to *Science*. All comments are
        moderated by our editorial staff and, if approved, will be posted on our Web
        site shortly. You will receive another message when that happens. Submissions
        that do not follow our terms and conditions
        [http://comments.sciencemag.org/terms] will be deleted at the sole discretion
        of our editors. Please do not reply to this email address. If you believe
        this message was sent to you in error, please alert science_letters@....

        For your records, a copy of your comment is included below:
        ---------------------------------

        Title:
        Evolution Heresy? Epigenetics Underlies Heritable Plant Traits

        Received:
        Fri, 13 Sep 2013 10:53:19 -0400

        Your Comment:
        Note, we may have been the first to address molecular epigenetics in the
        context of hormone-organized and hormone-activated behavior. See: From
        Fertilization to Adult Sexual Behavior. Hormones and Behavior. 30 (4) 333-53.

        Abhay Sharma now includes references to recent works that support cohesive
        thoughts on a new (old) approach to incorporating biological information into
        scientifically unsubstantiated theories about mutation-driven evolution,
        which has failed to incorporate the physiology of reproduction.

        I will add a reference to my work that may help with integration of current
        information into a model of adaptive evolution based on biological facts that
        include the physiology of reproduction.

        Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model.
        Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology 2013, 3: 20553

        The extension of our 1996 mammalian model to insects in 2000 and to their
        epigenetically-controlled life-stages in 2005 could have been expected to
        bring forward aspects of epigenetic effects on alternative splicings that are
        still somewhat in the background, but ever-present in the literature on
        precisely how the epigenetic "landscape" becomes the physical landscape of
        DNA in the organized genomes of species from microbes to man. That's why I
        think that the molecular mechanisms, which enable the epigenetic effects, are
        the same in plants.

        Does anyone think the molecular mechanisms are different enough to allow for
        the mutation-driven evolution of any extant or extinct species?

        -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Does this Friday the 13th of 2013 post enter into any numerology, astrology, or other nonsense that predicts the end of nonsensical mutation-driven evolution theory? If so, there may be other unrecognized patterns that link what is currently known about epigenetics, the physiology of reproduction, and everything else that refutes mutations theory.
         
        James V. Kohl
        Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
        Independent researcher
        Kohl, J.V. (2013) Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 3: 20553.
        Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.


        From: hibbsa <hibbsa@...>
        To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 5:03 AM
        Subject: Re: Fw: [evol-psych] RE: News: Birds choose sweet-smelling mates

         
        As predicted, you avoided the specific challenge. As you do all specific challenges. You are so pathetic Kohl. You spam this list with post after post, basically because no one else anywhere else wants anything to do with you.

        No one wants you here either. And your fantasy that it's all because you speak the truth and everyone else is bad...is the most pathetic thing about you. Time and again you avoid hard questions. Use insults and put downs. It's you, you daft bugger, you're the bad guy. And that's why no one wants you.

        --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, james kohl <jvkohl@...> wrote:
        >
        > hibbsa,
        >
        > I cited the literature on beak morphogenesis in finches before. It is clearly nutrient-dependent and pheromone-controlled as is the adaptive evolution of birds, including pigeons with theirdifferent colored head crests. The availability of nutrients changes the beak shape and even changes plumage color.  Your attack is as ridiculous as the anonymous fool's. Both of you should start reading the current literature instead of wasting time challenging me onbiological facts. I've followedDanielle Whittaker's work  for several years, and you can't even grasp its significance now. That's pitiful, as is your attack on me.
        >
        >  
        > James V. Kohl
        > Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
        > Independent researcher
        > Kohl, J.V. (2013) Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 3: 20553.
        > Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Forwarded Message -----
        > >From: hibbsa <hibbsa@...>
        > >To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
        > >Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 11:14 AM
        > >Subject: Re: [evol-psych] RE: News: Birds choose sweet-smelling mates
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > 
        > >cart before the horse...yeah I get it. So it's like, the bird had no beak to start with? Is that how you get around anonymous' problem?
        > >
        > >So your nutrient/pheromone thing changes the new beak shape. And then we have to entertain the idea the beak shape is good for one food and not another.
        > >
        > >So how does the nutrient/pheromone model explain how the beak shape is changed again in the future to that other food that currently it cannot eat?
        > >
        > >You're not that daft that you couldn't see the significance of his point. Which means the barrage of insults you threw at him must have been part of an attempt to avoid and bury.
        > >
        > >You won't answer the question even now that it has been spelled out, because your model doesn't have an answer.
        > >
        > >The fact I can sit here and predict you won't answer something, predict your behaviour, predict what strategies of avoidance you might use, puts you in a little box and makes you very small.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >--- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, james kohl wrote:
        > >>
        > >> I hope that others find it as ridiculous as I do that you are suggesting beak morphology "affects the food that the bird is able to eat in the first place" at the same time I am saying that what birds eat epigenetically effects their beak morphology. Unfortunately, some others may not recognize your "cart before the horse" scenario because it is common to their beliefs about mutation-driven evolution.  Thanks for exemplifying what I refer to as a scientifically illiterate response. Did you stop to think at all about the fact that morphogenesis in all species is nutrient-dependent (and pheromone-controlled)?
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>  
        > >> James V. Kohl
        > >> Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
        > >> Independent researcher
        > >> Kohl, J.V. (2013) Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model. Socioaffective Neuroscience Psychology, 3: 20553.
        > >> Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience Psychology, 2: 17338.
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >



      • anonymous_9001
        Kohl seems to imply that, no matter what trait an animal has to start out with, it can change just by trying hard enough. Those with small beaks are physically
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 13, 2013
        • 0 Attachment

          Kohl seems to imply that, no matter what trait an animal has to start out with, it can change just by trying hard enough.


          Those with small beaks are physically incapable of cracking and eating larger seeds, so they resort to eating smaller ones. Beak shape can't be epigenetically affected if the bird isn't even capable of eating a particular food source in the first place.



          --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, <jvkohl@...> wrote:

          I hope that others find it as ridiculous as I do that you are suggesting beak morphology "affects the food that the bird is able to eat in the first place" at the same time I am saying that what birds eat epigenetically effects their beak morphology. Unfortunately, some others may not recognize your "cart before the horse" scenario because it is common to their beliefs about mutation-driven evolution.  Thanks for exemplifying what I refer to as a scientifically illiterate response. Did you stop to think at all about the fact that morphogenesis in all species is nutrient-dependent (and pheromone-controlled)?

           
          James V. Kohl
          Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
          Independent researcher
          Kohl, J.V. (2013) Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 3: 20553.
          Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.


          From: "anonymous_9001@..." <anonymous_9001@...>
          To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 1:14 PM
          Subject: [evol-psych] RE: News: Birds choose sweet-smelling mates

           
          1) What causes amino acid substitutions?

          Replicative errors during meiosis that result in codon changes.

          2) What enables selection for their manifestations in morphology?

          Beak shape directly affects the food that the bird is able to eat in the first place. A larger beak would allow a bird to take advantage of a larger, previously inedible seed/nut/etc.

          3) How is selection for morphology linked to species diversification, if not by reproduction? 
          4) How are ecological, social, neurogenic, and socio-cognitive niche construction best linked to species diversification?

          Morphological differences allow different populations to occupy different ecological niches. This physical separation may lead to reproductive isolation.



          --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, <jvkohl@...> wrote:

          The lack of any scientifically literate response to my comments on a study like this one is perhaps the best indicator of the future of evolutionary psychology, which has dead-ended in mutation-driven evolution and in "Just-So" stories derived from scientifically unsupported reports of cause and effect. For contrast, we have my model that links nutrients and their metabolism to species-specific pheromones, which control reproduction in species from microbes to man. When that model so obviously is supported by additional findings, as has continued to happen for more than two decades, I wonder what keeps theorists focused on mutation-driven evolution. Are they scared by biological (e.g., epigenetic) facts, or do they simply chose to ignore them as others have done for nearly 120 years?  


          Evidence of positive selection for amino acid changes in species from microbes to man should by now have caused someone besides me to ask: 1) What causes amino acid substitutions? 2) What enables selection for their manifestations in morphology? 3) How is selection for morphology linked to species diversification, if not by reproduction? 4) How are ecological, social, neurogenic, and socio-cognitive niche construction best linked to species diversification?

          If your answer to any of these 4 questions is based on mutations theory you may already have made your choice to ignore biological facts. However, I'm not convinced that ignorance is as much a choice as it is a genetically predisposed lifestyle unaffected by sensory input from the environment. Should I attempt discussion of intelligence outside the context of socio-cognitive niche construction, instead?   

           
          James V. Kohl
          Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
          Independent researcher
          Kohl, J.V. (2013) Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 3: 20553.
          Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.


          From: james kohl <jvkohl@...>
          To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 11:30 AM
          Subject: Re: [evol-psych] News: Birds choose sweet-smelling mates

           
          See also: Chemosignaling diversity in songbirds: Chromatographic profiling of preen oil volatiles in different species

          Be sure to ask ethologists why most of them never considered the olfactory ability of birds to be important, despite clearly conserved molecular mechanisms of cause and effect in species from microbes to man. Note the stupid expression on their face, but realize that their failure to consider olfaction in birds has supported many ridiculous theories about effects of visual input on human behavior.
           
          James V. Kohl
          Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
          Independent researcher
          Kohl, J.V. (2013) Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 3: 20553.
          Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.


          From: Robert Karl Stonjek <stonjek@...>
          To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 10:21 PM
          Subject: [evol-psych] News: Birds choose sweet-smelling mates

           

          Birds choose sweet-smelling mates

          September 3rd, 2013 in Biology / Plants & Animals
          Birds choose sweet-smelling matesIn a first-of-its-kind study, a Michigan State University researcher has demonstrated that birds communicate via scents, and that odor reliably predicts their reproductive success. Credit: Nicole Gerlach
          For most animals, scent is the instant messenger of choice for quickly exchanging personal profiles. Scientists, however, have long dismissed birds as odor-eschewing luddites that don't take advantage of scent-based communications.
          In a first-of-its-kind study, however, a Michigan State University researcher has demonstrated that birds do indeed communicate via scents, and that odor reliably predicts their reproductive success. The study appears in the current issue of Animal Behaviour and focuses on volatile compounds in avian preen secretions.
          Birds' preen glands are located near their tails. Using their beaks, birds extract oil from the glands and rub it on their feathers and legs. Historically, this activity was thought to simply bolster the strength of feathers. Danielle Whittaker, managing director of MSU's BEACON Center for the Study of Evolution in Action, and her research team, however, have shown that it plays a key role in signaling reproductive health.
          "This study shows a strong connection between the way birds smell near the beginning of the breeding season – when birds are choosing mates – and their reproductive success for the entire season," she said. "Simply put, males that smell more 'male-like' and females that smell more 'female-like' have higher genetic reproductive success."
          The long-held assumption was that birds' preferred methods of communication and mate selection were visual and acoustic cues. Studying dark-eyed juncos, Whittaker's team compared which were more effective – chemical signals or size and attractive plumage.
           Birds choose sweet-smelling mates
          The study shows a strong connection between the way birds smell near the beginning of the breeding season and their reproductive success. Credit: Nicole Gerlach
          The results showed that individual bird odor correlated with reproduction success while size and plumage were less reliable. The study also revealed that females were making multiple decisions based on how their potential mates smelled.
          "Based on odor, females seemed to be not only choosing with which males to mate, but many times they also were selecting different males to raise their nestlings," Whittaker said. "Interestingly enough, the cuckolding males had higher levels of a 'female-like' odor."
          In addition, the researchers believe odors serve as beacons for hormone levels, current condition and overall health, and genetic background.
          Provided by Michigan State University
          "Birds choose sweet-smelling mates." September 3rd, 2013. http://phys.org/news/2013-09-birds-sweet-smelling.html
          Posted by
          Robert Karl Stonjek






        • james kohl
          From: anonymous_9001@yahoo.com To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 1:14 PM Subject: [evol-psych] RE: News: Birds
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 13, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            From: "anonymous_9001@..."
            To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 1:14 PM
            Subject: [evol-psych] RE: News: Birds choose sweet-smelling mates

             
            Kohl seems to imply that, no matter what trait an animal has to start out with, it can change just by trying hard enough.
            JK: That is the most offensive misrepresentation  of detailed cause and effect in my published work that I can imagine. Only an anonymous fool would say such a thing.
            Those with small beaks are physically incapable of cracking and eating larger seeds, so they resort to eating smaller ones. Beak shape can't be epigenetically affected if the bird isn't even capable of eating a particular food source in the first place.

            JK: That's the most ignorant misrepresentation of cause and effect I have ever encountered. It's no wonder you refuse to identify yourself.  But, I still wonder whether you are really Clarence 'Sonny' Williams.

            James V. Kohl
            Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
            Independent researcher
            Kohl, J.V. (2013) Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 3: 20553.
            Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.




            --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, wrote:

            I hope that others find it as ridiculous as I do that you are suggesting beak morphology "affects the food that the bird is able to eat in the first place" at the same time I am saying that what birds eat epigenetically effects their beak morphology. Unfortunately, some others may not recognize your "cart before the horse" scenario because it is common to their beliefs about mutation-driven evolution.  Thanks for exemplifying what I refer to as a scientifically illiterate response. Did you stop to think at all about the fact that morphogenesis in all species is nutrient-dependent (and pheromone-controlled)?

             
            James V. Kohl
            Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
            Independent researcher
            Kohl, J.V. (2013) Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 3: 20553.
            Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.


          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.