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[evol-psych] Re: epigenetics and creationism

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  • Maarten
    Being called an idiot by someone like Kohl is... a compliment, IMO. Merci, alors, Mr Kohl. Maarten ... because he also lacks the basic comprehension of
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 29 10:51 PM
      Being called "an idiot" by someone like Kohl is... a compliment, IMO.
      Merci, alors, Mr Kohl.

      Maarten


      --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, james kohl wrote:
      >
      > It is always nice to see someone like Maarten comment on this topic, because he also lacks the basic comprehension of biology that is required to distinguish between a model and a theory. Thus, like DWZ, he exemplifies the problem with theory, by inferring that my model is based on a belief, rather than accurately representing my model, which is based on "believable" biological facts. (See for example:
      >
      > Biological Information: New PerspectivesAs many intelligent people now realize, mutation-driven evolution is unbelievable; unsupported by biological facts; there is no model for it, and no model organism suggests that mutation-driven evolution is possible. For comparison, I've offered across-species examples of nutrient-dependent pheormone-controlled adaptive evolution. This leads Maarten to say: "It's good that Kohl finally states that his model is based on a belief."
      >
      > What kind of idiot says things like that after he has repeatedly been offered the opportunity to examine examples that incorporate biological facts into a model of nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution? That was a rhetorical question; it is clear that Maarten does not understand the implications of what he just wrote.
      >
      >
      >  
      > James V. Kohl
      > Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
      > Independent researcher
      > Kohl, J.V. (2013) Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 3: 20553.
      > Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > >________________________________
      > > From: Maarten m.aalberse@...
      > >To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
      > >Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 2:06 AM
      > >Subject: [evol-psych] Re: epigenetics and creationism
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > 
      > >"I have a model of my belief that adaptive evolution is nutrient-dependent and pheromone controlled in species from microbes to man."
      > >
      > >It's good that Kohl finally states that his model is based on a belief.
      > >Which I think was clear for most listmembers here.
      > >I'm not sure that Kohl understands the implications for what he just wrote, though...
      > >
      > >Best to all,
      > >Maarten
      > >
      > >
      > >--- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, james kohl wrote:
      > >>
      > >> DWZ: "I believe in evolution by natural selection based on random mutations."
      > >>
      > >> Thanks, the entirety of the bookBiological Information: New Perspectives asserts that your belief is ridiculous. That fact makes your belief non-trivial and very important to discussion here. Claiming that your ridiculous belief is '...pretty much the same as those of the overwhelming majority of scientists who have studied these matters..." indicates that there are too many people living in the past. None of them can tell us how natural selection is based on random mutations. For comparison, I have a model of my belief that adaptive evolution is nutrient-dependent and pheromone controlled in species from microbes to man. You believe "...that life originated by natural processes during an extremely long period before cells or microbes ever existed." Is there a model for that?
      > >>  
      > >> James V. Kohl
      > >> Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
      > >> Independent researcher
      > >> Kohl, J.V. (2013) Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 3: 20553.
      > >> Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> >________________________________
      > >> > From: Don Zimmerman dwzimm@
      > >> >To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
      > >> >Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:55 PM
      > >> >Subject: [evol-psych] Re: epigenetics and creationism
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> > 
      > >> >--- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, james kohl jvkohl@ wrote:
      > >> >
      > >> >Quit firing volley after volley at the creationists and tell us your beliefs, so everyone can see how ridiculous they are by comparison to biological facts.
      > >> >
      > >> >DWZ:
      > >> >My beliefs as to the topics under discussion are unimportant and trivial. I believe in evolution by natural selection based on random mutations. I believe that life originated by natural processes during an extremely long period before cells or microbes ever existed. I believe that epigenetics is important and promising. I do not believe in intervention or design by any supernatural agent. In other words, my beliefs are pretty much the same as those of the overwhelming majority of scientists who have studied these matters, so they are nothing special.
      > >> >
      > >> >Best regards,
      > >> >
      > >> >Don Zimmerman
      > >> >Vancouver, BC, Canada
      > >> >dwzimm@
      > >> >http://www3.telus.net/public/a7a82899
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • james kohl
      Again Maarten, it is the context that s important. What else can be said of someone like you who so consistently ignores the biological facts -- even to the
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 30 3:48 AM
        Again Maarten, it is the context that's important. What else can be said of someone like you who so consistently ignores the biological facts -- even to the point of inferring my model is based on my beliefs instead of what is currently neuroscientifically known? I certainly cannot refer to you as someone who has common sense or the ability to use whatever intellect he has. Nevertheless, I did not call you an 'idiot." It was an inferance only, as was your comment about my model being based on belief.

         
        James V. Kohl
        Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
        Independent researcher
        Kohl, J.V. (2013) Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 3: 20553.
        Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.


        From: Maarten <m.aalberse@...>
        To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 1:51 AM
        Subject: [evol-psych] Re: epigenetics and creationism

         
        Being called "an idiot" by someone like Kohl is... a compliment, IMO.
        Merci, alors, Mr Kohl.

        Maarten


        --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, james kohl wrote:
        >
        > It is always nice to see someone like Maarten comment on this topic, because he also lacks the basic comprehension of biology that is required to distinguish between a model and a theory. Thus, like DWZ, he exemplifies the problem with theory, by inferring that my model is based on a belief, rather than accurately representing my model, which is based on "believable" biological facts. (See for example:
        >
        > Biological Information: New PerspectivesAs many intelligent people now realize, mutation-driven evolution is unbelievable; unsupported by biological facts; there is no model for it, and no model organism suggests that mutation-driven evolution is possible. For comparison, I've offered across-species examples of nutrient-dependent pheormone-controlled adaptive evolution. This leads Maarten to say: "It's good that Kohl finally states that his model is based on a belief."
        >
        > What kind of idiot says things like that after he has repeatedly been offered the opportunity to examine examples that incorporate biological facts into a model of nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution? That was a rhetorical question; it is clear that Maarten does not understand the implications of what he just wrote.
        >
        >
        >  
        > James V. Kohl
        > Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
        > Independent researcher
        > Kohl, J.V. (2013) Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 3: 20553.
        > Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > >________________________________
        > > From: Maarten m.aalberse@...
        > >To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
        > >Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 2:06 AM
        > >Subject: [evol-psych] Re: epigenetics and creationism
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > 
        > >"I have a model of my belief that adaptive evolution is nutrient-dependent and pheromone controlled in species from microbes to man."
        > >
        > >It's good that Kohl finally states that his model is based on a belief.
        > >Which I think was clear for most listmembers here.
        > >I'm not sure that Kohl understands the implications for what he just wrote, though...
        > >
        > >Best to all,
        > >Maarten
        > >
        > >
        > >--- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, james kohl wrote:
        > >>
        > >> DWZ: "I believe in evolution by natural selection based on random mutations."
        > >>
        > >> Thanks, the entirety of the bookBiological Information: New Perspectives asserts that your belief is ridiculous. That fact makes your belief non-trivial and very important to discussion here. Claiming that your ridiculous belief is '...pretty much the same as those of the overwhelming majority of scientists who have studied these matters..." indicates that there are too many people living in the past. None of them can tell us how natural selection is based on random mutations. For comparison, I have a model of my belief that adaptive evolution is nutrient-dependent and pheromone controlled in species from microbes to man. You believe "...that life originated by natural processes during an extremely long period before cells or microbes ever existed." Is there a model for that?
        > >>  
        > >> James V. Kohl
        > >> Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
        > >> Independent researcher
        > >> Kohl, J.V. (2013) Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 3: 20553.
        > >> Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> >________________________________
        > >> > From: Don Zimmerman dwzimm@
        > >> >To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
        > >> >Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:55 PM
        > >> >Subject: [evol-psych] Re: epigenetics and creationism
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > 
        > >> >--- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, james kohl jvkohl@ wrote:
        > >> >
        > >> >Quit firing volley after volley at the creationists and tell us your beliefs, so everyone can see how ridiculous they are by comparison to biological facts.
        > >> >
        > >> >DWZ:
        > >> >My beliefs as to the topics under discussion are unimportant and trivial. I believe in evolution by natural selection based on random mutations. I believe that life originated by natural processes during an extremely long period before cells or microbes ever existed. I believe that epigenetics is important and promising. I do not believe in intervention or design by any supernatural agent. In other words, my beliefs are pretty much the same as those of the overwhelming majority of scientists who have studied these matters, so they are nothing special.
        > >> >
        > >> >Best regards,
        > >> >
        > >> >Don Zimmerman
        > >> >Vancouver, BC, Canada
        > >> >dwzimm@
        > >> >http://www3.telus.net/public/a7a82899
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >


      • james kohl
        “Just a Theory”: 7 Misused Science Words Article Excerpt: Hypothesis. Theory. Law. These scientific words get bandied about regularly, yet the general
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 30 4:19 PM
          Article Excerpt: Hypothesis. Theory. Law. These scientific words get bandied about regularly, yet the general public usually gets their meaning wrong.

          Now, one scientist is arguing that people should do away with these misunderstood words altogether and replace them with the word “model.”

          My comment: I’ve already replaced these misunderstood words with a “model.” Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model

          Conclusion [from my model]: An environmental drive evolved from that of nutrient ingestion in unicellular organisms to that of pheromone-controlled socialization in insects. In mammals, food odors and pheromones cause changes in hormones such as LH, which has developmental affects on pheromone-controlled sexual behavior in nutrient-dependent reproductively fit individuals across species of vertebrates.

          Comment from the article linked above:  Genes may influence human beings, but so, too, do epigenetic changes. These modifications alter which genes get turned on, and are both heritable and easily influenced by the environment. The environment that shapes human behavior can be anything from the chemicals a fetus is exposed to in the womb to the block a person grew up on to the type of food they ate as a child, Kruger said. All these factors interact in a messy, unpredictable way.

          My comment: In my model of adaptive evolution, the environment interacts with genes in a very predictable way. The epigenetic ‘landscape’ becomes the physical landscape of genes (i.e., DNA) via the epigenetic effects of olfactory/pheromonal input (i.e., food odors and pheromones).  Thus, Kruger misses an important fact in the context of my model. “[C]hemicals a fetus is exposed to in the womb…” and the metabolism of food to species-specific pheromones during development predictably result in the de novo creation of olfactory receptor genes. The de novo creation of olfactory receptor genes links the ecological environment to the social environment during predictable development of nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlled behaviors in every species on this planet. See for example, this graphic representation of my model, presented earlier this month at a conference that Daniel Kruger helped to organize.

           
          James V. Kohl
          Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
          Independent researcher
          Kohl, J.V. (2013) Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 3: 20553.
          Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.


          From: james kohl <jvkohl@...>
          To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 6:48 AM
          Subject: Re: [evol-psych] Re: epigenetics and creationism

           
          Again Maarten, it is the context that's important. What else can be said of someone like you who so consistently ignores the biological facts -- even to the point of inferring my model is based on my beliefs instead of what is currently neuroscientifically known? I certainly cannot refer to you as someone who has common sense or the ability to use whatever intellect he has. Nevertheless, I did not call you an 'idiot." It was an inferance only, as was your comment about my model being based on belief.

           
          James V. Kohl
          Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
          Independent researcher
          Kohl, J.V. (2013) Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 3: 20553.
          Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.


          From: Maarten <m.aalberse@...>
          To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 1:51 AM
          Subject: [evol-psych] Re: epigenetics and creationism

           
          Being called "an idiot" by someone like Kohl is... a compliment, IMO.
          Merci, alors, Mr Kohl.

          Maarten


          --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, james kohl wrote:
          >
          > It is always nice to see someone like Maarten comment on this topic, because he also lacks the basic comprehension of biology that is required to distinguish between a model and a theory. Thus, like DWZ, he exemplifies the problem with theory, by inferring that my model is based on a belief, rather than accurately representing my model, which is based on "believable" biological facts. (See for example:
          >
          > Biological Information: New PerspectivesAs many intelligent people now realize, mutation-driven evolution is unbelievable; unsupported by biological facts; there is no model for it, and no model organism suggests that mutation-driven evolution is possible. For comparison, I've offered across-species examples of nutrient-dependent pheormone-controlled adaptive evolution. This leads Maarten to say: "It's good that Kohl finally states that his model is based on a belief."
          >
          > What kind of idiot says things like that after he has repeatedly been offered the opportunity to examine examples that incorporate biological facts into a model of nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution? That was a rhetorical question; it is clear that Maarten does not understand the implications of what he just wrote.
          >
          >
          >  
          > James V. Kohl
          > Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
          > Independent researcher
          > Kohl, J.V. (2013) Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 3: 20553.
          > Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > >________________________________
          > > From: Maarten m.aalberse@...
          > >To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
          > >Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 2:06 AM
          > >Subject: [evol-psych] Re: epigenetics and creationism
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > 
          > >"I have a model of my belief that adaptive evolution is nutrient-dependent and pheromone controlled in species from microbes to man."
          > >
          > >It's good that Kohl finally states that his model is based on a belief.
          > >Which I think was clear for most listmembers here.
          > >I'm not sure that Kohl understands the implications for what he just wrote, though...
          > >
          > >Best to all,
          > >Maarten
          > >
          > >
          > >--- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, james kohl wrote:
          > >>
          > >> DWZ: "I believe in evolution by natural selection based on random mutations."
          > >>
          > >> Thanks, the entirety of the bookBiological Information: New Perspectives asserts that your belief is ridiculous. That fact makes your belief non-trivial and very important to discussion here. Claiming that your ridiculous belief is '...pretty much the same as those of the overwhelming majority of scientists who have studied these matters..." indicates that there are too many people living in the past. None of them can tell us how natural selection is based on random mutations. For comparison, I have a model of my belief that adaptive evolution is nutrient-dependent and pheromone controlled in species from microbes to man. You believe "...that life originated by natural processes during an extremely long period before cells or microbes ever existed." Is there a model for that?
          > >>  
          > >> James V. Kohl
          > >> Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
          > >> Independent researcher
          > >> Kohl, J.V. (2013) Nutrient-dependent/pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution: a model. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 3: 20553.
          > >> Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> >________________________________
          > >> > From: Don Zimmerman dwzimm@
          > >> >To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
          > >> >Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:55 PM
          > >> >Subject: [evol-psych] Re: epigenetics and creationism
          > >> >
          > >> >
          > >> >
          > >> > 
          > >> >--- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, james kohl jvkohl@ wrote:
          > >> >
          > >> >Quit firing volley after volley at the creationists and tell us your beliefs, so everyone can see how ridiculous they are by comparison to biological facts.
          > >> >
          > >> >DWZ:
          > >> >My beliefs as to the topics under discussion are unimportant and trivial. I believe in evolution by natural selection based on random mutations. I believe that life originated by natural processes during an extremely long period before cells or microbes ever existed. I believe that epigenetics is important and promising. I do not believe in intervention or design by any supernatural agent. In other words, my beliefs are pretty much the same as those of the overwhelming majority of scientists who have studied these matters, so they are nothing special.
          > >> >
          > >> >Best regards,
          > >> >
          > >> >Don Zimmerman
          > >> >Vancouver, BC, Canada
          > >> >dwzimm@
          > >> >http://www3.telus.net/public/a7a82899
          > >> >
          > >> >
          > >> >
          > >> >
          > >> >
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >




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